[SilverStreak] Risk assesment and decesion making process

["Bussiere, Curtis L SFC RES USAR TRADOC" <curtis.bussiere@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Greetings all. I am really a pretty laid back guy. I believe this would be 
a wonderful discussion to have over a cold one. Since I value constructive 
criticism I thought I would give you a little more then just technical 
background on me.
 I guess I started messing around with axel modifications back when I was a 
teenager. That was in the early 70s and back then a guy (kid) with average 
education could perform basic modifications. Sure we were all trying to jack 
our hot rods up and there was always the guy who would drive right off a 
poorly thought out modification.
 I still work regularly on my 78 Bronco my 88 Suburban and my daughters 92 
Jeep. For Christmas I gave her Jeep a 4 inch lift and added 36" tires. A few 
of my friends who are what is often referred to as over obsessive parents 
remarked at how she was now in great danger of flipping because the jeep was 
raised above factory specifications.
Now lets get beyond the hype and discuss decision making based on risk 
assessment. My daughter may only be 19 but she has completed a drivers education 
program, attends local college and works to pay all her bills. She is a very 
good driver and understands she now has a higher center of gravity. I trust her, 
I access her risk as low and give her that respect.
I also have two boys. They are as wild as I once was and if they were to want to 
raise their vehicles I would protest it. I love my boys but they need to stay 
well within factory spec.
Now theres Marie and I. We tow the 6000 lb SS with a 9000 lb 1988 Suburban with 
a 454. We just went camping this week and I barley took her above 55. I have towed 
Hawk Missiles on the back of an Army 21/2 ton truck all over Germany I understand 
and respect what top heavy is. 
I dont have a wind tunnel to measure resistance or separate scales to mark CB or 
any fancy formulas to figure the tip radius but like my daughter I realize that 
there is some added risk but because it looks so much better and I can now travel 
over a speed bump and have a better selection of camp sites without taking the rear 
bumper out I LOVE it and recommend it to all. This is of course if they are as 
cautious and not in a hurry as Marie and I are. Thanks for your time Curt  


----- Original Message -----
From: thetansedan@aol.com
Date: Thursday, April 24, 2008 20:22
Subject: Re: [SilverStreak] Flipped axels sound decesion
To: sslist@tompatterson.com

> B B Do you seriously think that raising the trailer DOESN"T change 
> the CG,
> thus magnifying any problems of sway? Your compromise should be 
> stated as
> such, that this modification will LESSEN safe handling. B It may 
> be a
> compromise you are comfortable with, but as an educated man your 
> obligation to
> present the other side is expected. There is no free lunch, and 
> there should
> be no minimization of risk.
> 
> 
> I thought you did a nice job of presenting the information, and I 
> enjoyedreading and viewing the post. B 
> 
> 
> I also asked for the specs on the shock absorbers used in another 
> post, do you
> have them (or, the corrected MONROE part number)?B 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have offered information in other areas that others may disagree 
> with, and I
> would hope that they would.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bussiere, Curtis L SFC RES USAR TRADOC 
> <curtis.bussiere@us.army.mil>To: sslist@tompatterson.com
> Cc: sslist@tompatterson.com
> Sent: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:01 am
> Subject: [SilverStreak] Flipped axels sound decesion
> 
> 
> Sir, your assumption that I am just taking on tasks without 
> concern for my or
> other drivers safety is insulting at best. I am a 1994 graduate of 
> MackUniversity in Detroit. I have worked as a heavy truck mechanic 
> for Olmos
> Construction. In 1998 I returned to my Military careear and have 
> just retired
> from 30 years in uniform. I have a proven record of sound 
> decesions and
> understand torque, materials and center of balance issues. The 
> unit is a 1974
> SS
> trailer not the space shuttle. Good day
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thetansedan@aol.com
> Date: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 18:26
> Subject: Re: [SilverStreak] Flipped axels (again)
> To: sslist@tompatterson.com
> 
> > All it takes is once. B Modifying the suspension w/o input from a
> > pro isn't a
> > good idea on something this heavy. B My parents vehicles were
> > beautifullymatched, and his skill as a driver B is almost
> > unmatched. B While it might be
> > "okay" so far as performance goes, it is still poor by comparison
> > to the
> > original.
> > A systematic approach would be best: tires, axle design, spring
> > rate and shock
> > absorbers.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Keneth Wilson <ke5dfr@sbcglobal.net>
> > To: sslist@tompatterson.com
> > Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 6:34 am
> > Subject: Re: [SilverStreak] Flipped axels (again)
> >
> >
> > Anytime you raise a trailer or a truck, you decrease the stability
> > due to a
> > higher center of gravity (CG).  The higher CG makes the vehicel
> > tippy in plane
> > terms, so you are always beeter off keeping the trailer or truck
> > lower than
> > higher.
> >
> > As for the axles over or  under the springs, aand the use of
> > dropped axles
> > over
> > staight axles, it is all done to keep the CG lower.
> >
> > With the taller tow vehicles, you se more and moer trailer that
> > set high...but
> > if you notice, the olser trailers like the SS all tow better with
> > fewerproblems
> > than the current trailer.  Part of the reason for towing better 
> is the
> > aerodynamics and part is the lower CG.
> >
> > By going from an over spring to an under spring arrangement, is a
> > minimal lift
> > and probably will not be noticed on a properly matched tow vehicle.
> >
> > Ken Wilson
> > KE5DFR@sbcglobal.net
> > Cypress, Texas
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: "thetansedan@aol.com" <thetansedan@aol.com>
> > To: sslist@tompatterson.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:34:45 PM
> > Subject: Re: [SilverStreak] Flipped axels (again)
> >
> > My parents raised their first one, a 1975 model. B I am convinced,
> > that after
> > exhaustive talks with my father ten years ago, that this was a
> > contributingfactor to their trailer having rolled in an emergency
> > lane change on the
> > highway. B I would not ever do my own, nor would I ever recommend
> > it. B My
> > father wanted the extra ground clearance, but the tradeoff is not
> > worth it.
> > B You can bet he did not do the axle flip on the second S/S. There
> > is only so
> > much movement (rocking) that, first, the shock absorbers and,
> > second, the
> > springs can handle when the trailer starts to tip for whatever
> > reason. B The
> > design of the suspension needs to be different to accommodate this
> > increasedheight.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bussiere, Curtis L SFC RES USAR TRADOC
> > <curtis.bussiere@us.army.mil>To: sslist <sslist@tompatterson.com>
> > Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 5:51 am
> > Subject: [SilverStreak] Flipped axels (again)
> >
> > I am trying to post pictures of my 1974 Continental Supreme. Last
> > summer I
> > flipped the axels and installed new shocks in order to give the
> > unit more
> > ground
> > clearance and present a better appearance when hooked up to a more
> > modernhigher
> > tow vehicle.
> > At that time there was much discussion about center of balance and
> > somespeculated that the additional 4 inches would make the rig a
> > tipping hazard.
> > This has proven to not be the case with us. We have put several
> > hundred miles
> > on
> > since the flip and if anything it seems to handle better. It
> > required new
> > center
> > pins and guide holes and of course anytime I remove a U bolt I
> > replace it.
> > The
> > old shocks were a couple of inches to short and the boys at Auto
> > Zone let me
> > go
> > back and dig through their shocks to find the size I needed. Of
> > course all
> > was
> > torqued then routinely checked along the road for the first
> > hundred miles as
> > new
> > U bolts will stretch. There has been no slipping and the axels
> > track is true.
> > This was a driveway project and I recommend it to anyone who wants
> > to stop
> > dragging their tail over every dip and improve the look of their
> > unit when
> > towing with a higher clearance vehicle.
> > I will await directions for posting my pictures.
> > This was not a 180deg flip it was moving the axels from top to the
> > bottom of
> > the springs. a 180deg flip will not work as the axels are designed
> > to flex
> > one
> > way only. (dot ask me how I know this) Thanks Curt
> >