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VACList DigestVACList-Digest       Tuesday, October 29, 2002      Issue 470
  
Today's Topics:
  
        1. Re: loosening rusted parts
        2. Re: Rectangle vents and window operators
        3. Re: new participant and axles
        4. To the Moderators
        5. Re: Rectangle vents and window operators
        6. Re: [A/S] 61' Ambassador Segments. I need to measure one in SoCal
        7. New Airstream Address
        8. Re: Rectangle vents and window operators
        9. Re: Rectangle vents and window operators
       10. Wheel Wally Rally
       11. Vent parts needed
       12. Re: Valuable resource
       13. Re: axles (springs and dampers)
       14. Re: reinstalling holding tank
       15. Re: axles (springs and dampers)
       16. the price of axles
       17. freeing window operators
       18. moderation
       19. Re: freeing window operators
       20. Re: Rectangle vents and window operators
       21. Re: reinstalling holding tank
       22. Re: the price of axles
       23. Re: Rectangle vents and window operators
       24. Re: Rectangle vents and window operators
       25. Re: To the Moderators




----------------------------------------------------------------------




Message Number: 1
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:51:24 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: loosening rusted parts

Kroil and PB Blaster make Water Displacer 40's performance look like an
unfulfilled wish. And WD-40's oil content is minimal, its no more of a
lubricant than kerosine. I've not tried super rust penetrant.

Gerald J.
-- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.


------------------------------

Message Number: 2
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 19:04:08 EST
From: Inlandrv@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: Rectangle vents and window operators



I really think, someone, anyone, out there that is critical of looks and 
prices of replacement parts for the vintage trailers, should get more 
involved than just criticism.

How about one of you getting involved with a machine shop, and have a price 
quote on what you think "should" be an absolute correct replacement, AND, 
report back to us what a person in the RV business would sell it for.

Investigative costs, manufacturing costs, consistent with quality and/or 
looks, investment in that inventory, AND, the item most folks forget about, 
is the cost of doing business, anywhere. Let us also not forget that to stay 
in business, one must also make a profit. The building, the employees, the 
general and administrative costs are far more than meet the eye.

Not considering time, material costs, labor costs, costs of keeping an 
inventory, taxes, profits, are all fool hardy, AND. the best way in the world 
to go out of business.

I invite anyone, to come up with a better operator, have them in inventory 
and sell it at a profit, for less than we do. Who is kidding who???

Andy
inlandrv.com
airstreamparts.com



------------------------------

Message Number: 3
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 19:32:32 EST
From: Inlandrv@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: new participant and axles

Joy.
 I think you have somewhat distorted what I told you. Prices should be 
associated with a stripped axle or a complete axle, without having to guess 
which one you are referring to. 

We do sell the complete axle as well as a stripped axle for considerably less 
money than Airstream. 

Why?

While our overhead is substantial, it is far less than Airstreams. Hence, the 
savings are passed on to the consumer.

What seems to be the "bone of contention" here, is that the axles are no 
longer available on a wholesale basis. If there is a middle man, they must 
make a profit to stay in business.

If the middle man was put out of business, as some would like to do, the 
economy of our entire country would fall on it's face. And who would be to 
blame?? The person that wanted them out of the formula.

Changes within the RV industry, especially with the Airstream products, take 
time. Wrongs will and are corrected in due course.

I don't think it's appropriate to put down any company that finds itself 
being sometimes a "middle man." They certainly are very convenient and handy 
for the vast majority of consumers, even K-Mart and grocery stores fit that 
bill. 

But to a select few, they are the bad guys, because you can't get it 
wholesale.
Joy, for you, I hope your axle experience with Southwest Wheel turns out very 
favorable, after you engineer it to completion. Then that will place you in 
the category of being "an expert," wherein you can provide all the necessary 
information of what and how to, to everyone and anyone. 

I certainly for one, will pick "your" brain on "your 800 number" so that you 
can teach us how as well. 

You might find that to be a task beyond expectations, and simply, not worth 
it, or very expensive.

But as a word of encouragement, "go for it."   

How long before we have a final answer, will be a question, I think, many 
will ask.

Encouragingly,


Andy
inlandrv.com
airstreamparts.com


------------------------------

Message Number: 4
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:52:23 -0700
From: "Roger Hightower" <n7kt@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: To the Moderators

Where are you?  I'm getting tired of all this name-calling, personal
attacks, etc on the List.  Do your jobs and either have them knock it off,
or ban them from the list.


Roger Hightower
WBCCI 4165, VAC, TCT
1975 31' Sovereign, '02 F-250 PSD
Mesa, AZ
mailto:n7kt@xxxxxxxxxx.net




------------------------------

Message Number: 5
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:58:43 -0800
From: "My Airstream" <myairstream@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: Rectangle vents and window operators


At some point the designer/restorer had to look up at the overhead vents 
which are chronic replacement problems.  "Should I make the handles that 
open and close the vent to look like the originals OR should I get 
creative and specify a handle that doesn't look at all like the 
original."

If I were the designer I would make the handle the same shape as the 
original.  If it cost a bit more to get the Airstream shape I would 
consider that part of the cost of production.  I consider the decision 
to square off the new handles poor design and quality control.  It is my 
understanding that inlandrv.com operators are superior in holding down 
the vent.  I applaud such innovation but cannot make use of them because 
my original handles (which I have carefully saved) won't fit on the mew 
operators.

I have other examples of quality going out the window on aftermarket 
Airstream parts.  We've probably beat this one up enough :)


Bob Kiger  http://cruiserbob.com
66 Airstream Safari
Mira Mar Mobile Park
Oceanside, CA 
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Inlandrv@xxxxxxxxxx.com
  To: Multiple recipients of VACList
  Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 4:04 PM
  Subject: [VAC] Re: Rectangle vents and window operators


  I really think, someone, anyone, out there that is critical of looks 
and prices of replacement parts for the vintage trailers, should get 
more involved than just criticism.

  How about one of you getting involved with a machine shop, and have a 
price quote on what you think "should" be an absolute correct 
replacement, AND, report back to us what a person in the RV business 
would sell it for.

  Investigative costs, manufacturing costs, consistent with quality 
and/or looks, investment in that inventory, AND, the item most folks 
forget about, is the cost of doing business, anywhere. Let us also not 
forget that to stay in business, one must also make a profit. The 
building, the employees, the general and administrative costs are far 
more than meet the eye.

  Not considering time, material costs, labor costs, costs of keeping an 
inventory, taxes, profits, are all fool hardy, AND. the best way in the 
world to go out of business.

  I invite anyone, to come up with a better operator, have them in 
inventory and sell it at a profit, for less than we do. Who is kidding 
who???

  Andy
  inlandrv.com
  airstreamparts.com



------------------------------

Message Number: 6
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 20:08:04 -0500
From: "James Greene" <drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [A/S] 61' Ambassador Segments. I need to measure one in SoCal

Dave, it's possible that Inland RV has the segments you are asking about.
Whether they would provide the measurements you need or not is another
question. You might inquire at www.inlandrv.com and see what response you
get. It's a toll free call.

Jim Greene
' 68 Tradewind

----- Original Message -----
From: "towinman2002" <gwc_notary@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <AirstreamList@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 16:40
Subject: [A/S] 61' Ambassador Segments. I need to measure one in SoCal


> I need to fabricate segments for a 1961 ambassador & need to make
> some
> measurements on a trailer that is all together.  I haven't found
> anyone that supplies them anymore, but I have the capability to make
> the compound curves that these panels require.
>
> I just need to make measurements. If you are in Southern California &
> would be willing to let me look at your trailer, Please contact me.
>
> Regards,
> Dave




------------------------------

Message Number: 7
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 20:16:19 EST
From: Inlandrv@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: New Airstream Address



Airstream, at the request of several owners and dealers, now has a direct 
e-mail address for suggestions.

It is:

suggestions@xxxxxxxxxx.com

Andy
inlandrv.com
airstreamparts.com 


------------------------------

Message Number: 8
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 17:32:28 -0800
From: Pearl Main <pearlm@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: Rectangle vents and window operators



My Airstream Hi Bob:   My 64 Soverign had some vent openers that froze up and I
removed them and soaked them in Lock ese and another product that was suypposed
to unfreeze locks and they finally started working again...afdter cleaning them
up re-installed them and now about every 2/3 months spray them with Silicone
spray (same I use for the awning arms) and they work fine.   It took several
weeks for them to finally break loose being soaked   Pearl in SoCal

> I have been on a search for properly working LeDeau vent operators.  I have
> three spares that do not turn.  I have looked at the replacement parts only to
> find that they do not match the look or retro feel of the originals.  I would
> hate to have one vent with originals and the other with squared off after
> market handles. I checked with the vender to see if I could fit my stock
> handles on the new operators to give the original look.  I was told that I
> would have to machine the old handles to fit.  I just wonder if anyone has a
> clue at how to free up the frozen operators AND why anyone would make an
> aftermarket product that doesn't look like the original?  I don't think costs
> should be the only factor in producing a decorative aftermarket handle. Bob
> Kiger  http://cruiserbob.com
> 66 Airstream Safari
> Mira Mar Mobile Park
> Oceanside, CA
>
>      ----- Original Message -----
>      From: Kevin D Allen
>      To: Multiple recipients of VACList
>      Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 8:35 AM
>      Subject: [VAC] Re: Rectangle vents and window operators
>
>      Greetings Jason!
>
>      Yes, reproductions of the LeDeau vent operators are available as are
>      acrylic replacement domes for the 14 x 24 Astrodome.The
>      reproduction mechanisms are not an exact copy of the original but
>      are functional replacements. Both products are available from Inland
>      RV.Their website is:
>
>      http://www.inlandrv.com/parts
>



------------------------------

Message Number: 9
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 19:58:46 -0800
From: Rik & Susan Beeson <rik@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: Rectangle vents and window operators

<html>
<head>
</head>
<body>
When someone not in the business makes a reproduction part, like the Bargman
door handle, and needs to charge $149 for it, plus an additional $149 for
the bezel -- well, that pretty much proves the veracity of what Andy says.
We are fortunate to have as many repro parts available as we do, from so
many diverse sources.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Rik<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Inlandrv@xxxxxxxxxx.com">Inlandrv@xxxxxxxxxx.com</a> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:c1.296b1a10.2aef2a78@xxxxxxxxxx.com"><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size="2" family="SANSSERIF" face="Arial" lang="0">
I really think, someone, anyone, out there that is critical of looks and
prices of replacement parts for the vintage trailers, should get more involved
than just criticism.<br>
  <br>
 How about one of you getting involved with a machine shop, and have a price
quote on what you think "should" be an absolute correct replacement, AND,
report back to us what a person in the RV business would sell it for.<br>
  <br>
 Investigative costs, manufacturing costs, consistent with quality and/or
looks, investment in that inventory, AND, the item most folks forget about,
is the cost of doing business, anywhere. Let us also not forget that to stay
in business, one must also make a profit. The building, the employees, the
general and administrative costs are far more than meet the eye.<br>
  <br>
 Not considering time, material costs, labor costs, costs of keeping an inventory,
taxes, profits, are all fool hardy, AND. the best way in the world to go
out of business.<br>
  <br>
 I invite anyone, to come up with a better operator, have them in inventory
and sell it at a profit, for less than we do. Who is kidding who???<br>
  <br>
 Andy<br>
 inlandrv.com<br>
 airstreamparts.com</font></font></blockquote>
  <br>
  </body>
  </html>



------------------------------

Message Number: 10
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 23:55:07 EST
From: ThreePeaksRanch@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Wheel Wally Rally



What a kick. Don and Joyce, Ellie and Mark, et al did a wonderful job. 
THANKS!



------------------------------

Message Number: 11
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 03:36:01 -0800
From: Rik & Susan Beeson <rik@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Vent parts needed

I have a 1975 Argosy Motorhome that has a vent cover missing. I have a 
cover, but from a different (later) model Airstream. What I REALLY need 
are the two bent sheet-metal parts that the U-shaped actuator slides 
into. They are riveted to the vent cover and screwed into a little block 
of plastic that slides up and down in an aluminum channel, one on each 
side of the vent.. I'd be happy to have the plastic piece also, but it 
is less important than the sheet-metal parts. Rodney at C & G Trailer 
Service says that all Argosys had this kind of vent, and also Airstreams 
from 1965 to 1971

Soooo... if you have a vent like this -- even a busted one that still 
has any of the parts I need -- please email me off list. And thank you!!

Best regards,

Rik



------------------------------

Message Number: 12
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 07:19:30 -0600
From: "Jim Taylor" <jop@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: Valuable resource

Boy isn't this great! I cant believe some of the posts that make their way
to our list. I think we should all remember that there are 2 main groups of
air stream enthusiasts. The first being those who want to restore (as near
original as possible) and the second being those that want to remodel (
retrofitting to suit their finances and needs for their use) Realistically
some of us fit neither of the 2 main groups, there may be more of us than
there are of them. I appreciate all the time and effort expended to make
useful information available to me thru this list. Like nearly everyone I
have spent hours and hours plus lots money buying stuff that looked like it
would probably work, most of it didn't, but it helped Wal-Mart sale figures
and kept my wife busy asking me what I intended to do with all that stuff in
her garage. <p>I will not share any of the silly stupid short cuts I
attempted that failed but I do want to share some of my successes. Every
spring, light fixture, bulb, knob, door part, rock guard, water heater,
heater door ( painted silver that really looks wonderfull),vent gasket,
latch, brake parts and more that was supplied by Inland RV  have needed only
installation. Additional  modification has not been required. Isn't it great
that there is some one in the market place that is willing to expend the
time and monetary investment to make available otherwise unavailable parts.
My positive attitude will not permit me to mention those concerns that have
not returned calls, laughed at my ridiculous question or sold me items that
they knew would probably not fit or work.<p>There are two suppliers that
have made my airstream project exciting and satisfying. James Ambruso who
makes really beautifull drapery replacements and Inland R V who has the
right answer and the right part.<p>Jim Taylor<p>73 Sovereign<p>Coffeyville
Ks



------------------------------

Message Number: 13
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 06:11:37 -0800 (PST)
From: jon fitz <fitzjo1@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: axles (springs and dampers)

Just a few points here for those interested in
pondering the finer points of suspension performance.

First the simple part.  Springs (torsion or otherwise)
produce a reactive force that is proportional to
displacement.  Simply put, their force is a function
of POSITION.

Now the trickier part.  Shocks are dampers.  Shocks
produce a reactive force that is proportional to the
RATE of displacement (mathematically referred to as
the first derivative of position).  Simply put, their
force is a function of SPEED (the rate at which the
POSITION is changing).

So, a pure shock absorber (not to be confused with an
air spring) will not affect the static position of the
trailer at all.  If it's not moving, the shock is not
producing a reaction force.

BUT, if you try to push the wheels up suddenly, the
shocks will work with the springs to limit how far the
wheels are displaced.  An example of this is a bump in
the road.  The more sudden (faster) the bump, the more
the shocks react.  The key to understanding the
reaction is to remember that the springs only respond
to POSITION, while the shocks only respond to the RATE
of change of the position.

So, shocks help to prevent bottoming out, but not by
changing ride height.  They are especially helpful
with bumps because they do most of their work at the
start of the bump, while springs do more work at the
top of the bump.

On a related note, we recently did a crude experiment
to compare the dynamic response of my old Overlander
(26') to a new Safari.  My wife jumped up and down
inside the unit while attempting to match the natural
frequency of the suspension.  We only got about 1/2"
of travel out of the old suspension.  Much of this was
in the tires.  And so, we were convinced that the
springs must have gotten stiffer with age.  Much to
our surprise, the new unit had almost the same
response.  Although the travel was slightly more, it
was so little difference that it was hard to quantify
with a tape measure.

We also noted that the natural frequency of both units
was very high in comparison to a typical car or even
our E250.  For those of you familiar with the
mathematics, this is a clear indication that the
spring rate (stiffness) is higher in relation to the
mass.  Thus, depsite the poor resolution of the test,
it was qualitatively obvious that the new unit is
built with a very stiff suspension.  This relationship
also accounts somewhat for any weight differences
between the two units. 

I found this particularly interesting because my
primary concern was fatigue.  Even if the unit never
bottoms out, it could be ruined by an overly stiff
ride.  But, it seems as though there has been little
change in my old 68 in this regard.

Jon in SC
68 Overlander

__________________________________________________
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HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
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------------------------------

Message Number: 14
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:45:30 -0500
From: Lexxy <Earth2lexxy@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: reinstalling holding tank

I'm sure only the few folks who have removed and reinstalled the
blackwater holding tank can maybe help me but please try...I need it. 

We have a '67 Safari "can-o-worms"[mostly in parts right now]...We have
the plastic holding tank and it seems to be fine and we are getting a
new Thetford gate valve. We had a new metal box built to hold it....and
the styrafoam base is fine.  My question involves the "hole" in the top
where the white "funnel-shaped plastic thing" the toilet is bolted to
goes into.  

This hole has a firm black thing firmly embedded into it and we don't
know whether to dig it out or leave it.  Does the "White toilet funnel"
get cemented into this black thing?  It was when we took it apart and we
had to cut it out carefully.  We need another funnel thing and I need to
know what it's really called...I did keep it.

I need to have 2 new angle irons welded under the trailer frame to hold
the metal box.  What I need to know is the order of repair in
reinstalling the box.  It seems to me that most of it will be assembled
after the box is in place ...meaning the gate valve and pvc plumbing
connections to the vent and toilet funnel because after the angle irons
are installed the box will just barely slip into place.  Also does this
metal holding box get a drain hole?  I sure think it needs one just in
case.  I could use a good cross section diagram if anyone has ever seen
one.

If this makes sense to anyone, could they help me.  Thak goodness I
found a terrific metal worker/welder who is great but he's not a
plumber!!

I can send good pictures to anyone willing to help....

Lexxy







------------------------------

Message Number: 15
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:16:44 -0700
From: "gshippen" <gshippen@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: axles (springs and dampers)

Jon,

Excellent and very interesting.  I have been pondering fatigue as well in
regard to my 66 Overlander.  Most A/S trailers springs seem to age very
uniformly with little obvious difference from side to side.  But most
interesting!
GAS
----- Original Message -----
From: "jon fitz" <fitzjo1@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 7:11 AM
Subject: [VAC] Re: axles (springs and dampers)


> Just a few points here for those interested in
> pondering the finer points of suspension performance.
>
> First the simple part.  Springs (torsion or otherwise)
> produce a reactive force that is proportional to
> displacement.  Simply put, their force is a function
> of POSITION.
>
> Now the trickier part.  Shocks are dampers.  Shocks
> produce a reactive force that is proportional to the
> RATE of displacement (mathematically referred to as
> the first derivative of position).  Simply put, their
> force is a function of SPEED (the rate at which the
> POSITION is changing).
>
> So, a pure shock absorber (not to be confused with an
> air spring) will not affect the static position of the
> trailer at all.  If it's not moving, the shock is not
> producing a reaction force.
>
> BUT, if you try to push the wheels up suddenly, the
> shocks will work with the springs to limit how far the
> wheels are displaced.  An example of this is a bump in
> the road.  The more sudden (faster) the bump, the more
> the shocks react.  The key to understanding the
> reaction is to remember that the springs only respond
> to POSITION, while the shocks only respond to the RATE
> of change of the position.
>
> So, shocks help to prevent bottoming out, but not by
> changing ride height.  They are especially helpful
> with bumps because they do most of their work at the
> start of the bump, while springs do more work at the
> top of the bump.
>
> On a related note, we recently did a crude experiment
> to compare the dynamic response of my old Overlander
> (26') to a new Safari.  My wife jumped up and down
> inside the unit while attempting to match the natural
> frequency of the suspension.  We only got about 1/2"
> of travel out of the old suspension.  Much of this was
> in the tires.  And so, we were convinced that the
> springs must have gotten stiffer with age.  Much to
> our surprise, the new unit had almost the same
> response.  Although the travel was slightly more, it
> was so little difference that it was hard to quantify
> with a tape measure.
>
> We also noted that the natural frequency of both units
> was very high in comparison to a typical car or even
> our E250.  For those of you familiar with the
> mathematics, this is a clear indication that the
> spring rate (stiffness) is higher in relation to the
> mass.  Thus, depsite the poor resolution of the test,
> it was qualitatively obvious that the new unit is
> built with a very stiff suspension.  This relationship
> also accounts somewhat for any weight differences
> between the two units.
>
> I found this particularly interesting because my
> primary concern was fatigue.  Even if the unit never
> bottoms out, it could be ruined by an overly stiff
> ride.  But, it seems as though there has been little
> change in my old 68 in this regard.
>
> Jon in SC
> 68 Overlander
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
> http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
> http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
>
> When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>



------------------------------

Message Number: 16
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:55:16 -0500
From: "dave cole" <davecole@xxxxxxxxxx.org>
Subject: the price of axles

Please stop bickering.

My experience has been that Andy has built a business selling specialty
merchandise at what appears to me to be a fair mark-up.  I imagine that he
is charging about twice what he pays, possibly a little more because of the
huge overhead involved in hunting all this specialty stuff down and being
sure it fits. (not to mention all the time he spends giving expert advice
for free) Andy has always taken the time to tell me what he thinks I need to
know about my trailer even though he knows I am on a fixed budget and may
not buy from him.

That said, the price on the axles seems really high to me.  I have a really
good commercial trailer place that is going to install Dexter's for me for
much less than the axles are from inland-even without the shipping or
installation.  But I don't have all the information-I don't know how much
Andy pays.  (for example, if people have historically been paying $350 an
axle buying them direct from henschen, and that has been the wholesale price
(i.e. the price Andy now pays), than inland is not overcharging-sorry guys,
retail mark-up is double, and for a whole long list of good reasons.  As far
as not being able to buy them direct anymore, there is no business in which
a manufacturer will continue to sell wholesale to the customer after he has
established a retail outlet)

The only way to be sure that the price is fair is for someone else to set up
a distributorship for compatible axles and see how it plays out.  I don't
know about y'all, but I don't have any interest in the axle business.

If Andy is gouging (charging more than a reasonable mark-up solely because
he can) it is on his conscience and it will catch up with him.

So long as Andy remains transparent-that he continues to acknowledge that
there are other ways of doing things that may be cheaper (and may not work)
I think we should treat him with respect.




------------------------------

Message Number: 17
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:55:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Toby Folwick <toby_folwick@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: freeing window operators

I've heard that a 50/50 mixture of diesel fuel and
brake fluid can break these free, but haven't tried it
myself.

thought I'd offer the tip.

Toby



__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/


------------------------------

Message Number: 18
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:07:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Toby Folwick <toby_folwick@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: moderation

To paraphrase what Dave Cole just said, "Treat
EVERYONE with respect."

I, as a moderator, am getting tired of attack,
counter-attack on this list.

The more often this happens, the less compassionate I
get.  Not speaking for the other moderators, but only
for myself, if I see this kind of behavior continue I
will recommend to my co-moderators that we review our
policies.

what this means to the list is that regardless of who
you are and what you have to offer or gain from this
list, you have the same responsibilities as *everyone*
on this list.  Share information, and think twice
before pressing "send" on a critical opinion.  

This is a warning of sorts to those of you who
consistently seem to be in the heat of the battle. 
settle down - I'm bored with it, and my tolerance is
wearing thin.

Thanks,

Toby Folwick
VACList co-moderator


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/


------------------------------

Message Number: 19
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:08:10 -0700
From: "gshippen" <gshippen@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: freeing window operators

Toby and others,

I once knew an old Cowboy that upon finding his long lost alarm clock freed
it up by soaking it in kerosene!
Good luck!

GAS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Toby Folwick" <toby_folwick@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 11:55 AM
Subject: [VAC] freeing window operators


> I've heard that a 50/50 mixture of diesel fuel and
> brake fluid can break these free, but haven't tried it
> myself.
>
> thought I'd offer the tip.
>
> Toby
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
> http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
> http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
>
> When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>



------------------------------

Message Number: 20
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:11:49 -0800
From: "My Airstream" <myairstream@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: Rectangle vents and window operators


I think I have a non-controversial question about the vent operators :)  
My front vent works properly . . . I think.  The operator that is 
positioned towards the rear of the vent has a second extension which 
makes it rise about 2" higher than the front operator.  Is the front 
operator intentionally shorter OR is my front operator just frozen?

Bob Kiger  http://cruiserbob.com
66 Airstream Safari
Mira Mar Mobile Park
Oceanside, CA 



------------------------------

Message Number: 21
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:06:36 -0500
From: "Mr. Joy H. Hansen" <joytbrew@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: reinstalling holding tank

Hi,

My experience is with a '69 Safari holding tank.  I opted to remove the tank
as the floor was compromised across the rear.  Especially along the area
where the bumper hatch shelf directs water into the floor.  I've only seen a
few Airstreams with this area caulked to prevent damage.  Possibly your '67
already had the floor replaced?

With the toilet removed, the hold down flange is two parts.  A metal hold
down ring and a center funnel that along with the foam spacer seals the
toilet to the tank.  The center funnel is threaded and must turn counter
clockwise to remove.  Have your welder make a tool to just fit the
depressions in the funnel.  It will be tight!

The '69 might be the first year for the wide body and could mean that our
plumbing is different.  I couldn't get the Thetford gate valve to separate
and ended up cutting the valve body to get the tank out and check its
integrity.  Also, I had to cut the gray water line that drops through the
floor and connects down stream of the gate valve.  Planned for using a
rubber coupler to reconnect the gray water line.  The air vent is a slip fit
in the top of the tank.

Having done this restoration, there's one thing I didn't consider that I
note is part of my '74 Argosy.  The holding tank, besides allowing heat from
the furnace be forced around the holding tank to keep it from freezing, also
provides considerable support for the floor.  The dimensions of the tank
have to seal against the floor and I used foam fillers to accomplish this
with my Safari.  Now, I realize that the dimensions must be exact so the
housing is forced tightly against the floor.  My recommendation is to keep
the housing as thick as possible.  With regard to a drain hole, if water
gets inside the  housing, there's trouble in river city.  For small amounts,
the forces air from the furnace might clear the water.  BTW, I didn't
replace the gate valve and toilet hold down with Thetford as I feel that
they are vastly overpriced and are not readily available in case of future
problems.  There are several alternatives at RV outlets that are OK
replacements.  The repair kits for those I replaced on my Argosy were near
$35 and still lacked the pull rod that typically has the end rust off.

I hope you replaced the angle iron that holds the holding tank as it was
originally - welded tabs to the frame and the cross angle iron is bolted in
place?  An improvement I noticed on my Argosy is that two angle irons are
butt welded together to provide much improved support for the holding tank
housing.  Especially when the housing is intended to support the floor.

I used the angle irons bolted at one end as a slide to move the holding tank
(with tank) into position.  The housing was jacked into position and the
angle iron free end was then bolted.  The housing can't get out.  The toilet
hold down should be in position to replace the hold down ring/funnel.  An
important issue that  I've yet to solve is that the tank is not tightly held
in the holding tank (vertical).  I opted not to pull the tank to the floor
with the toilet hold down as the loaded weight might break out the toilet
fitting.

If you still have the old gate valve orientation and haven't cut any
plumbing loose, it should be very straight forward to connect the old gate
valve.  I opted to leave a large cut-out for the gate valve and make a two
section metal patch to seal the opening.  I had the tank out and opted to
carefully remove the Thetford gate valve and carefully press the new valve
in place.  An exact replacement wasn't available, so I had to seal one of
the typical two entry gray water fittings.  Also, I had to recover the ABS
fittings with careful grinding/filing as the replacement fittings are not of
the same dimensions.

I won't tell you that it's easier than it seems as it isn't.  There's an
obstacle to every solution I find that produces another obstacle!

Be sure your floor is sound before you button all this stuff up.  You won't
like the floor sag that might destroy all the work you've done with the
holding tank, etc.

                                             '69 Safari, Joy



------------------------------

Message Number: 22
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:18:37 -0500
From: "Mr. Joy H. Hansen" <joytbrew@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: the price of axles

Hi Dave,

The controversy about this thread is why I asked for off list discussion!
Keep the subject off list and there isn't any bickering!

                                                  '74 Argosy, Joy






------------------------------

Message Number: 23
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:46:31 -0800
From: "chyde" <chyde@primelink1.net>
Subject: Re: Rectangle vents and window operators


Bob,
Here is a non-controversial answer, I hope. Both operators should 
operate with the same amount of lift. These operators have a two stage 
lift mechanism and it sounds like one of the stages is frozen. As I've 
said on an earlier post, I too have the same problem however was 
fortunate to have found two new spares that came with the trailer. I am 
in the process of freeing these ones up for another trailer project.
Colin Hyde
57 Sovereign of the Road
59 Ambassador International
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: My Airstream
  To: Multiple recipients of VACList
  Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 11:11 AM
  Subject: [VAC] Re: Rectangle vents and window operators


  I think I have a non-controversial question about the vent operators 
:)  My front vent works properly . . . I think.  The operator that is 
positioned towards the rear of the vent has a second extension which 
makes it rise about 2" higher than the front operator.  Is the front 
operator intentionally shorter OR is my front operator just frozen?
  


------------------------------

Message Number: 24
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:03:04 -0800
From: RJ.Dial@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: Rectangle vents and window operators



The opener mechanism has two stages.  As you guessed, the second stage 
is frozen.  Once freed up using many of the excellent methods 
suggested, annual application of something like Lithium grease will 
keep them operating.  

Also, it's a good idea to check the cover attach fasteners too, as 
failure of these is how everyone lose those valuable covers.
RJ

-----Original Message-----
From: myairstream@xxxxxxxxxx.net [mailto:myairstream@xxxxxxxxxx.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 11:12 AM
To: VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net
Subject: [VAC] Re: Rectangle vents and window operators

I think I have a non-controversial question about the vent operators :) 
 My front vent works properly . . . I think.  The operator that is 
positioned towards the rear of the vent has a second extension which 
makes it rise about 2" higher than the front operator.  Is the front 
operator intentionally shorter OR is my front operator just frozen? 
 
Bob Kiger  http://cruiserbob.com
66 Airstream Safari 
Mira Mar Mobile Park
Oceanside, CA  



------------------------------

Message Number: 25
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:20:10 -0500
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: To the Moderators

Roger - and others

Unfortunately we monitors do not get to review the messages before they are
sent out to everyone. We must monitor after the fact, and we do so off-list.
Because of this it may look as the monitors are not doing their job. But
rest assured that we are.

AND LET THIS SERVE AS A WARNING. We are tired of the personal attacks. They
will not be tolerated. Offenders will be REMOVED without warning.

Monitor Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Hightower" <n7kt@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 7:52 PM
Subject: [VAC] To the Moderators


> Where are you?  I'm getting tired of all this name-calling, personal
> attacks, etc on the List.  Do your jobs and either have them knock it off,
> or ban them from the list.
>
>
> Roger Hightower
> WBCCI 4165, VAC, TCT
> 1975 31' Sovereign, '02 F-250 PSD
> Mesa, AZ
> mailto:n7kt@xxxxxxxxxx.net
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
> http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
>
> When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>




------------------------------


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