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VACList DigestVACList-Digest Friday, September 20, 2002 Issue 431
Today's Topics:
1. Re: fiberglassing question
2. WBCCI
3. Re: Vent covers
4. Re: Belt insert..
5. What's it all about:
6. Re: Changes in Membership Status
7. Re: *no* Changes in Membership Status
8. Re: WBCCI
9. Re: Changes in Membership Status
10. An introduction, if you please
11. Re: Greg? Strong-Arm tactics? hanges in Membership Status
12. Re: Intellipower URL
13. Re: Freebies? Changes in Membership Status
14. Re: Belt insert..
15. Re: An introduction, if you please
16. Re: Randy Belt insert..
17. Memebership
18. Re: Randy Belt insert..
19. Membership change
20. Re: An introduction, if you please
21. Changes in Membership Status
22. Membership discussion - moderation.
23. Re: Randy Belt insert..
24. Re: painting a panel heater louvered cover
25. Re: VAC membership
26. Re: Randy Belt insert..
27. Re: Belt insert..
28. Re: Vent covers
29. MIA/POW
30. Re: Battery Chargers and care
31. Re: Vent covers
32. Re: Changes in Membership Status
33. Re: VAC membership
34. Re: Battery Chargers and care
35. On Friends
36. Re: No specs on Univolt
37. Re: Battery Chargers and care
38. Test Message
39. Re: Battery Chargers and care
40. Re: Battery Chargers and care
41. VAC Membership
42. Re: Battery Chargers and care
43. Re: Battery Chargers and care
44. Re: Battery Chargers and care
45. battery cables
46. Online Library access
47. Re: battery cables
48. Re: Randy Belt insert..
49. Re: Online Library access
50. Re: An introduction, if you please
51. Re: VAC Membership
52. Re: Vent covers
53. Re: Vent covers
54. Re: No specs on Univolt
55. Re: Online Library access
56. Changes in Membership Status
57. Re: Randy Belt insert..
58. Free Membership!
59. General Converter questions. was: Battery Chargers and care
60. Re: Vent covers
61. Re: Online Library access
62. Sep/Oct issue Escapees magazine
63. Re: Online Library access
64. Re: General Converter questions. was: Battery Chargers and
care
65. Re: Online Library access
66. Snowbirds
67. membership - moderation
68. Re: Memebership
69. Membership
70. Re: Snowbirds
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message Number: 1
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:43:08 -0600
From: "Phil" <mustang@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: fiberglassing question
I have a 61 Tradewind that I got from my aunt and uncle, the original
purchasers. My uncle made a new cover for the large front vent out of
fiberglass. He made the cover more than 15 years ago. I am sorry I do not
have the mold he used, but I have thought about taking it apart and
making a
mold from it. The fiberglass is a goldish yellow, it lets in a lot of
light
in the daytime and looks good. Phil
------------------------------
Message Number: 2
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 17:43:18 -0700
From: Pearl Main <pearlm@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: WBCCI
Hi all: If the information you get from the VAC list saves you money
on
restoration of your Vintage trailer there is your WBCCI dues. 38
years of
WBCCI membership has made a family of friends. Check out the other
Intra Clubs
maybe
you will find another group centered on your interests too. When you no
longer
have a spouse the Free Wheelers welcome you to continue to participate
How do
you know that you are not interested in a rally or caravan till you try
one!
Maybe you are still working full time and can't go on a long caravan but
you can
find a week long one with many Units or remember you are getting old and
are
going to retire someday and a caravan may be in your future. Tips from
the VAC
list has more than saved the cost of WBCCI dues for me. Pearl in
SoCal.
------------------------------
Message Number: 3
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 20:30:10 -0000
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: Vent covers
Bob,
It is very easy to remove the vent lifters along with the attached vent
cover. They remove as one piece. Each vent lifter is held in place by two
pieces of aluminum coming from the vent frame inside your trailer just
above
the screen. Take a screw driver and give it a little pry. After they are
loose go outside with a stepladder, lean over and grab the vent/lifter
assembly! This should allow you to better see what is going on.
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "My Airstream" <myairstream@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAC] Re: Vent covers
. ...So it appears that the only way to do any work on the
> vents is to remove the entire system from the roof and onto a bench.
> Yuccch!.....
>
> Bob Kiger http://cruiserbob.com
> 66 Airstream Safari
> Mira Mar Mobile Park
> Oceanside, CA
------------------------------
Message Number: 4
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 18:22:19 -0700
From: "Roger Hightower" <n7kt@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: Belt insert..
That buckling has happened to me, too. I had the insert replaced in the
winter, and when it warmed up in the summer the stuff expanded enough to
pop
out of the track. I just cut the end off until it lay flat again while
it
was still warm. The next winter, it was OK and has been since then.
Roger Hightower
WBCCI 4165, VAC, TCT
1975 31' Sovereign, '02 F-250 PSD
Mesa, AZ
mailto:n7kt@xxxxxxxxxx.net
------------------------------
Message Number: 5
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:33:27 -0500
From: "Paul P. Waddell" <balloon@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: What's it all about:
I've been reading all the emails in reguards to "Changes in Membership
Status"
of the WBCCI/VAC and thought "What's it all about". I joined both the
WBCCI and
the VAC back in the spring. Like some, I get the "Blue Beret" thinking
most
does not apply to me, even get a good laugh sometimes. I go on to the
VAC and
learn many things about Airstreams, how to fix things, where to buy
parts, when
the next rally will happen, read about people fixing their own, complain
about
the cost of parts, etc... This is all great, but I think some have
either forgot,
never learned or have never read about or even know "What's it all
about".
The Airstream trailer was and still is today a "tool". It is a "tool" of
GOOD WILL. I ask the ones that complain about the dues to get a copy of
the
"Blue Beret". You will learn, about the "CommUNITy Service". Wally Byam
on
most if not all of the caravans/rallys ALWAYS did something good for the
people of the community that they visited. Why do you think today we get
the
welcome with open arms that we do when we use our trailers/tools. This
is
something that does not happen over night. I could care less about a few
bucks to help keep something going that does at least something for the
GOOD WILL of it. I'm sure the kids of "Kids Kastle" Day Care Center in
Rapid
City will never forget the good that came from the silver trailers. How
about
the blankets that were given, or the 27 quilts. Its the people in the
"WBCCI"
that do this type of stuff. I can say, I have never read an email on
this list
about that type of "GOOD WILL". All I ever see is people always trying
to nickel
and dime the trailer they own, the dues they pay, etc... The time it
took for
some of you to complain about the dues, you could have had a
"tie-one-on" party
and did 27 quilts (if you don't know what tie-ing is, read the Blue
Beret).
I think it's time to stop thinking about yourself and your dues and
think about
all the good that can come from yourself, the WBCCI and VAC. Here's a
line
from the latest "Blue Beret".
I quote: "The WBCC (now WBCCI) has greatly added to the wealth of
trailering
experiences. Experiences? The temptation is to use the word "thrills"
but
that would imply cheap, sensational events of the moment. Wally Byam was
against such things. Instead, he offered deeper, more lasting
satisfactions
through experiences of substance and meaning." end quote.
So the question is now, "Do YOU know what it is all about?"
Paul Waddell
WBCCI/VAC 1270
66 Overlander
70 23'LY single
------------------------------
Message Number: 6
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:55:59 -0400
From: "Edward Emerick" <EEMERICK@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Changes in Membership Status
Greg,
Let me be one of the first in the group to respond to your message and
thoughts on the VAC and the WBCCI. Without the WBCCI I feel the VAC
would not be inexistence as it is today, matter of fact I know it would
not. The founder of the VAC is a WBCCI member and was at the time of
starting this great Interclub. Wally started the WBCCI to get people
together to share in the joys of Airstream ownership and to USE the
product as he dreamed, with others that share the same interests,
AIRSTREAMS. The WBCCI is the cornerstone of the VAC and the most active
VAC members are either an officer in the WBCCI or past officers. When I
was at the International Rally this past year in Rapid City parked with
the Vintage Club (which the only way I could enjoy this benefit is by
joining the WBCCI) I noticed many WBCCI officer flags or past WBCCI
officer flags flying next to that vintage flag. It seems to me that the
majority of us in the VAC believe in the benefits and need of the WBCCI
or we would not participate in the WBCCI at the levels we do. I agree
totally with Mr. Moore's perspective of how the WBCCI and VAC are
interdependent. I also think that the $75 I spend each year in dues is
well spent supporting my UNIT (where all things start), my WBCCI and
then my VAC, in importance to me in THAT order.
The VAC was built and continues to be built on the foundation of the
WBCCI and for that I am grateful. I recommend that you become more
involved at the Unit level of the WBCCI and see some of the benefits of
membership of the WBCCI which are going to be greater than just getting
to the Members Area of the VAC website. The issue is more than the $$$$
for the membership dues its history that you can become part of and the
joys of membership that you are missing. Not all of the good people only
belong to the VAC they belong to both. We need the structure of the
WBCCI to support the VAC activities, come join us!
Ed Emerick
WBCCI and THEN VAC 4425
WI Unit President
WI Unit Membership Chairman
Region 7 VAC Rep
-----Original Message-----
From: VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net [mailto:VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net] On Behalf Of
Greg Hankins
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 1:23 PM
To: Multiple recipients of VACList
Subject: [VAC] Changes in Membership Status
I am writing to express my dismay at and disagreement with changes in de
facto VAC membership policies that are announced in the new issue of the
VAC Newsletter.
In particular, those of us Vintage Airstream owners who pay dues to VAC
but
not to WBCCI have been excluded from the members section of the VAC
website, while having our dues doubled. I feel this is unfair to those
of
us in this membership class; I believe it is not in the best interest of
the VAC; I respectfully request that the decision be reversed; and I
urge
you, if you share my feelings, to make your position known to Mr. Wayne
Moore (wam52@xxxxxxxxxx.net), Membership Director, and to other VAC
officers. I do not object to the increase in VAC dues. I do object ot
having the WBCCI forced upon me. If there must be a portion of the
website
retricted to WBCCI members, I woiuld suggest it contain rally
announcements, rally reports, and other information relevant to WBCCI
members - not technical and other information of interest primarily to
Vintage Airstream enthusiasts.
I apologize in advance if this has already been discussed on the list; I
found nothing skimming back through message headers for the past couple
of
months. I also apologize for the length. I have been as concise as I
could
be and still say all that I felt needed saying. The paragraph above can
stand as an executive summary if you want to skip all the words below.
Why This Change is Unfair to Non-WBCCI Vintage Airstream Owners:
The changes in the de facto membership policies are described in a piece
authored by new membership chair Wayne Moore which was printed twice in
the third quarter 2002 issue of the newsletter. It is entitled "A note
to
clarify the mis-interpretations in membership."
I am one among the class of folks who have associated with the VAC who
own
a vintage trailer but are not members of the WBCCI. Mr. Moore's piece
explains that, according to the VAC Charter (that is, de jure) I have
never
been more than a "Friend" of the VAC. In fact (that is, de facto), the
various descriptions of membership classes available when I joined, as
well
as the privileges that accrued to me upon paying my annual dues, suggest
that I was a "member."
Upon submitting my dues, I was provided with a membership decal, a
subscription to the newsletter, and access to the members section of the
website. Perhaps the fact that I got these was the nefarious work of
"those
that wanted more autonomy for the VAC," mentioned in Mr. Moore's piece.
In
any case, I received those benefits of membership and at least one -
access
to the website -- has now been taken from me. I received no prior notice
that this would happen, nor, as I recall, any indication that a decision
of
this sort was being taken, so that I might comment upon it in advance.
Assurances that these changes in my staus reflect a return to the
original
VAC charter in no way alter the fact that I once was given privileges
that
have now been taken from me.
For the above reasons, the way this has been handled seems to me unfair.
At
the very least, some sort of apology ("We're sorry that folks who were
running things before mistakenly let you have this. Unfortunately, and
with
great heaviness of heart, we are forced to take it away from you now. We
hope that you will nonetheless feel warm and friendly toward us and
propmptly send in your extra $10 in VAC dues, along with another $45 for
the WBCCI.") might have been in order. I would gladly pay the $10
increase
in VAC dues, but object to being forced to pay another $45 to the WBCCI
in
order to enjoy no other benefits than those I received last year for $10
paid to VAC.
Why This is Bad for the VAC:
> From what I've been able to gather -- even from Mr. Moore's piece in
the
newsletter -- VAC membership is growing by leaps and bounds. Notably
"Friends," that is, folks who belong to the VAC but not WBCCI, have
grown
by 23% in the past year. They account for more than one-third of all VAC
members. By contrast, as I understand it, the WBCCI has seen its
membership
decline. Mr. Moore suggests that this may be because of a perception
that
the WBCCI is a retiree's group, which he argues is not the case.
I know little about the WBCCI. I do know that during my past year of
membership in VAC, as a self-identified owner of an Airstream and a
"Friend" of a WBCCI intra-club, I have received nothing more than a
single
e-mail from the WBCCI acquainting me with the benefits of membership or
encouraging me to join. That's not a very impressive marketing effort.
My perception is, as someone remarked in the recent discussion of the
Classic Caravan Club on this list, that the WBCCI is what its name
implies:
a caravan club for Airstreamers. Caravaning and rallies seem like they
might be fun. I have noted with interest the photos and descriptions of
the
VAC rallies. My wife and I have discussed that we might like to attend
one,
once we have our Tradewind in a bit better shape and the time opens up.
When that time comes, of course, we would join and pay dues to the rally
organizer -- the WBCCI.
For now, though, we continue to work on our A/S, and learn about
trailering
by visiting nearby state parks. I expect we will never find rallying
replacing fishing, crabbing, beaching, and such as our primary activity
with our Tradewind.
The current interests of VAC members, as displayed on this list and in
the
newsletter, extend well beyond rallies and caravans. Restoring or
rehabbing
old Airstreams seems to be the primary interest. This e-mail list is a
fantastic resource for that. Showing one's trailer off to others is a
desire of some; just using it to camp, as we do, is high onthe list of
others. Perusing material on vintage Airstreams is another interest.
The interests of VAC members seem more diverse than those that are
apparently the mission of the WBCCI. It's particularly interesting to
note
the number of non-Airstream vintage trailers that show up at rallies, in
photos in the VAC newsletter, and in e-mails to this list. Clearly many
of
us, while we may hold the vintage Airstream up as the pinnacle of the
art,
have an interest in knowing more about Curtiss Wrights, Hunt House Cars,
Silver Streaks, and other Vintage RVs, particularly if they are aluminum
and shiny.
As a result, the VAC sits uneasily within the WBCCI. Perhaps this
dis-ease
has caused the WBCCI or VAC officers with a strong interest in the WBCCI
to
attempt to tighten up membership policies as a way of more firmly
corraling
the VAC within the WBCCI fold. This attempt, I believe, could well prove
detrimental to the health and future growth of the VAC.
Asking folks interested in the restoration and use of vintage Airstreams
or
other vintage RVs to pony up $20 for access to a newletter and website
filled with information on their interests is reasonable and should help
the VAC continue to grow. Having this e-mail list as sort of a point of
first contact for most, without any membership or dues requirement, will
almost surely continue to channel new members to the VAC. Ultimately,
egged
on by rally reports in the newsletter and on this list, as well as by
some
well-designed marketing efforts on the part of the WBCCI, many of these
VAC
members would surely gravitate to the WBCCI.
On the other hand, asking people to more than triple their dues
investment
up front, to also join the WBCCI, a caravan club, when they have no
current
interest in caravanning or rallies, will almost surely retard the growth
of
the VAC. Ultimately, I believe, the WBCCI will win fewer members this
way
than by the more open means suggested in the previous paragraph.
What Should Be Done Instead:
I will assume that the genie cannot be put back into the bottle. In
other
words, we vintage Airstream owning non-WBCCI "members" will have to
resign
ourselves to being "Friends." However I believe our access to the
current
content of the members-only section of the website should be restored.
That
section contains primarily information of interest to vintage Airstream
restorers and enthusiasts rather than information on rallies and
caravanning.
If it is necessary to have a members only section of the website, that
section should contain rally reports and announcements and other rally
and
caravanning material of interest to WBCCI members. The only possible
explanation for the present decision to limit access to the technical
information to WBCCI members is the (correct) perception that this is
the
most valuable content on the website and the (obvious) attempt to
strong-arm folks with an interest in this material into the WBCCI.
Mr. Moore argues that the club is "about people not just trailers. .
. .The
trailer is just a vehicle to enjoying the caraderie and adventure that
drives people to join social organizations like this in the first
place."
Surely that is a well-worded sentiment. Lord knows peope are a lot more
important than trailers. People also deserve better than picayune
adherence
to outdated charters and clumsy attempts to force unwanted association
upon
them.
What in fact brings people together on this list and has led many of us
to
join the VAC is a fascination with the trailer. Depriving us of access
to
information on that subject that we had heretofore enjoyed, while at the
same time trying to force-feed us membership in an organization that may
have less current appeal seems a highly unsociable way to proceed.
Again, apologies for the length of this. I hope it will provoke
discussion
amongst the membership and the "friends" and perhaps lead to a revision
of
the newly announced policy along the lines I have suggested.
Greg Hankins
'76 Trade Wind
______________________________________________________________
Greg Hankins Happy Hank's Honey House
ghankins@xxxxxxxxxx.net Mt. Gilead, North Carolina
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------------------------------
Message Number: 7
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:07:29 -0400
From: "Edward Emerick" <EEMERICK@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: *no* Changes in Membership Status
Hello All
Ya know what is cool? Most of you non WBCCI members with vintage
trailers have those units around because of a WBCCI member buying it new
before you. Look at the old WBCCI number shadows you choose not to cover
with new numbers!
Ed
WBCCI 4425
-----Original Message-----
From: VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net [mailto:VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net] On Behalf Of
Tom
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 5:26 PM
To: Multiple recipients of VACList
Subject: [VAC] Re: *no* Changes in Membership Status
The VAC Intra-Club came about because of the WBCCI members who
petitioned to
do so. Without the WBCCI there would be *no* VAC.
Sounds pretty simple to understand when you stand back and take a look
at
the big picture, Bob.
I highly doubt that your idea you posted suggesting that the VAC
distance or
remove itself from the WBCCI would ever fly. Many of the long time
members
of WBCCI still have and use on a regular basis, vintage Airstream travel
trailers. Due to the nature of these units being kept and kept up by
those
WBCCI members the VAC came about as a nice way to have extra
relationships
develop with other WBCCI members who you may not have ever come to know.
I would suggest to you that you take a look at the other Intra-Clubs at
WBCCI. There are lots of other clubs inside of WBCCI like the computer
club
for one. Would you suggest that those computer club members also remove
themselves from WBCCI? And all the others should also follow suit?
It seems to me that the dues for BOTH the WBCCI and the VAC are very
reasonable. If anyone is having a hard time justifying this puny amount
of
money how the heck can you even afford to think about putting lots of
money,
not to mention thousands of hours, into an older travel trailer?
Seems to me that if you saved enough of your hard earned nickels and
dimes
you'd soon have enough to buy scrap aluminum to make your own individual
vintage trailer one day. Of course, it wouldn't be an Airstream you
understand but you'd then have your wish of being out on your own all by
yourself.
One easy way for people to save money is to always pay your daily
expenses
with paper money. When you get back home put your pocket change into a
huge
piggy bank. You'd be surprised at the amount you'd have at the end of
each
year! ;) Then you could easily be a happy go lucky member of both the
WBCCI
and the VAC.
A bargin rate of $45 or even $60 per year is not spelled: b u r d e n.
A
bargain is never a burden, quite opposite.
Tom
WBCCI 5303
From: "Bob Hightower" <nk7m@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> From: VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net [mailto:VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net] On Behalf
Of
> Scott Scheuermann
> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 7:00 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of VACList
> Subject: [VAC] Re: Changes in Membership Status
>
> "The VAC is a group within the WBCCI organization. It always has been.
> The VAC organizers/leaders did not have 100% clarity and foresight
into
> the future to see just what the Friend category along with the success
> of this list and website would evolve into. They did not realize that
> definitions would evolve, that certain assumptions would be made and
> that there would be a huge success in the Friends category."
>
> Why does the VAC have to be an intraclub of the WBCCI? Was it
originally
> in order to attract other vintage owners to the group? The main
> interests of the two groups, caravanning and restoration/rehab of
older
> units, don't seem close enough to require such an arrangement.
>
> "The VAC is now under pressure to conform to the original intent of
its
> creators as well as the rules and regulations of its parent
> organization."
>
>> From whom is this pressure coming? WBCCI? If so, and apparently so,
this
> seems to be some sort of "get in line, or else" pressure. Who knows
> what the "or else" is?
>
> "The purpose (of the Buddy rally) is to attract members, not to create
a
> class of people who don't need to be members to become involved and
> enjoy the club's benefits."
>
> A "class of members"? What class? Or type? This smacks of elitism in
my
> mind. I would pay much more to be a member of the VAC alone, but not
as
> a part of the WBCCI, in which I have no interest.
>
> "This action is only part of a larger action within the WBCCI to
address
> some issues and ABUSES within the club. It is not directed to you
> (Friends) alone."
>
> So WBCCI is wielding the force of it's status as the "parent" club to
> bring intraclubs in line. I believe that the VAC could survive, and
> thrive, with no connection to WBCCI at all, contrary to the following
> statement. VAC members have much more going for them than attendance
at
> various rallies and caravans.
>
> "Please remember that without the WBCCI there would be no VAC, nor the
> website nor the list."
>
> Not true. In order to become an intraclub, there had to be some sort
of
> group interested in vintage Airstreams, and for that group to petition
> WBCCI for intraclub status, much like the Classic Caravan Club.
>
> The question of WBCCI/VAC membership has been debated before, with no
> resolution. If the intent is to force me to join WBCCI and fork over
> $60.00 a year, for which I get a very sorry excuse for a newsletter,
and
> then pay an additional amount to be a VAC member, it won't work. The
> request for additional money will go in the same bucket as the latest
> plea to join WBCCI. I would rather send my $60.00 to the VAC for their
> use. The VAC newsletter/magazine and website are far more informative
> than anything that WBCCI puts out.
>
> Maybe WBCCI wastes too much money paying for the expenses of the
> officers to travel to different rallies to afford a better publication
> and more information.
>
> Maybe the VAC leadership ought to explore the possibility of severing
> the umbilical with WBCCI, since they seem to be much more frugal and
> able to operate on much less money, with a more dedicated membership.
>
> Bob Hightower
> '76 Sov
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------------------------------
Message Number: 8
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:06:03 -0500
From: Kevin D Allen <overlander64@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: WBCCI
Well said Pearl!
I too have found that the cost of my WBCCI membership has been offset by
the wealth of information that flows through the VAC list and other VAC
resources. It is nearly impossible to describe the wonderful feeling of
inclusion that one can experience when attending a WBCCI function and
the corresponding membership in VAC only serves to enhance those
experiences. In my experience, caravanning and rallying are only one
aspect of membership - - in addition, there are numerous off-season
socials offered by most Units in the areas where snow is a fact of life
during the Winter months.
I am at least seventeen years away from retirement, but this doesn't
keep me from realizing the value of my WBCCI/VAC/Free Wheelers/Computer
Club memberships. The fact that I can't work every caravan or rally
into my schedule isn't a great concern as I know that the ones that I
can participate in will be great and rewarding experiences.
I had reservations about whether I was really going to enjoy a rally or
caravan, but my first International Rally (Boise 1998) opened my eyes to
what a great experience these functions can be - - and I can say the
same for my first caravanning experience (Wagon Wheels - 1999 - Dayton,
OH) as well. Without my association with WBCCI, I may never have had
the opportunity to meet a number of people that I now consider good
friends.
I look at my WBCCI membership as a form of "insurance" that I will use
my Airstream or Argosy on a regular basis. It is very unusual that an
issue of the Blue Beret arrives without at least one activity that I
would like to work into my schedule - - does it always happen - no --
but in the past year there have been four functions that I wouldn't have
enjoyed without my WBCCI membership. (Three of the four had special VAC
activities as well.)
Kevin
Kevin D. Allen
1964 Overlander International/1999 GMC K2500 Suburban
1978 Argosy Minuet
1975 Cadillac Convertible (towcar in-training)
WBCCI/VAC #6359
-----Original Message-----
From: VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net [mailto:VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net] On Behalf Of
Pearl Main
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 6:43 PM
To: Multiple recipients of VACList
Subject: [VAC] WBCCI
Hi all: If the information you get from the VAC list saves you money
on
restoration of your Vintage trailer there is your WBCCI dues. 38
years of
WBCCI membership has made a family of friends. Check out the other
Intra Clubs maybe you will find another group centered on your interests
too. When you no longer have a spouse the Free Wheelers welcome you to
continue to participate How do you know that you are not interested in
a rally or caravan till you try one! Maybe you are still working full
time and can't go on a long caravan but you can find a week long one
with many Units or remember you are getting old and are going to retire
someday and a caravan may be in your future. Tips from the VAC list has
more than saved the cost of WBCCI dues for me. Pearl in SoCal.
------------------------------
Message Number: 9
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:12:46 -0400
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Changes in Membership Status
Trike,
There is always the Vintage Trailer group at Yahoo Groups you could
join. They do lots of stuff on the old tear-drop trailers and other
tin-can tourist trailer stuff. You might even find some pink flamingos
for sale there. ;) Just kidding! ;)
It has always been written that in order to join any of the Intra-Clubs
first you had to become a member of the WBCCI. You could check the
group charter or whatever it is that they were formed under way back
when. When we bought our 1969 29' International Ambassador trailer in
1988 which was our very first Airstream, we were advised by the person
at Airstream in Ohio that soon we'd be able to join the VAC group
because our Airstream would then be 20 years old. And that was way
back
in 1988!
Why is this such a problem? If you weren't informed at the time you
got
involved with the VAC personally then maybe, just maybe, someone should
have taken the time to see what all was involved in being a member of
the VAC group. That someone would be you, personally, if you really
wanted to know all about the club and I'm sure you did want to know
something. Didn't you?
Why is it such a big deal NOW that those who have been around the VAC
for a while are so willing NOW to just up and leave? If you and others
like you just get up and walk out on your friends at VAC how much VALUE
do you now place on ANY of the VAC benefits you've already reaped?
The original way the VAC club was set up was as an "Intra-Club" through
and by the WBCCI with the WBCCI blessing. Did you really think someone
just made this up recently?
I find it very strange when something like this happens; rules being
enforced that have always been on the books. Yes, lots of times rules
get pushed back and are not enforced due to whatever. In this case it
appears that someone has caused this rucus to get started and by doing
so has forced the hand of the WBCCI group. If that's the way it is,
then so be it, it was ALWAYS that way in the first place.
The WBCCI people make friends for a lifetime of fun and travel with a
very nice cross section of our society at large. It is this same cross
section of people that originally formed the VAC. If you and others
find it so easy to just get up and walk out all I can say is I don't
understand your reaction.
Then again, IF someone or anyone knew this was coming down the pike
they
just might have taken real advantage of others hard work and long hours
by rummaging through all the files and taking whatever they wanted
before they ran for the door. Nah, .. that wouldn't have happened,
would it?
Tom
WBCCI 5303 - since 1988
----- Original Message -----
From: Tryke@xxxxxxxxxx.com
To: Multiple recipients of VACList
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 6:22 PM
Subject: [VAC] Re: Changes in Membership Status
Bob Hightower pretty much sums up my sentiments on the subject. I
paid
2 yrs membership for VAC so I could still get the VA. After the first
couple of issues of the blue Beret I knew WBCC was just not for me. At
least at this stage of my life,maybe later in my life ,but not for a
while. I did not renew my Wally Club membership when it was up. I want
to stay in the VAC but , if I have to join WBCC to be in VAC the I
will
no longer be in VAC. I will miss getting the VA and there is still this
list. I have no interest in caravanning or who the next WBCC teen
queen
is going to be,or who makes the best punch (who makes the best corn
mash
might pic my intrest {{{>;o)> )so I don't wish to be in The Big Club.
I'm interested in fixing up and using (and showing off) of the older AS
trailers. Don't get me wrong...I'm not slamming WBCC, it's just not my
cup of tea.!
Trike
------------------------------
Message Number: 10
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:34:27 -0500
From: "Chris Siiteri" <csiiteri@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: An introduction, if you please
Greetings,
My name is Chris, and I admit I am neither a member of VAC or WBCCI.
This
may change though after reading many of the emails regarding the
organization, and in consideration of the value I have already received
from the daily list digest. I want to thank all of you who contribute to
the discussions. I am curiously drawn to the computer daily,
anticipating
the good, the bad and the ugly experiences you share, as a result of
owning,
or dreaming of one day owning one or more of these vintage capsules of
time
and travel. I also call on other lurking list members to enter in, and
contribute as well.
In April of 2001, we aquired the 1963 Ambassador pictured
http://vintageairstream.com/archives/%2763Ambassador.html
on the VintageAirstream.com photo archives. My wife, Darcie actually
drove
to IN, a 3K mile round trip to pick it up. She did this in our 2001
Excursion 7.3L P.S.Deisel, with our two children ages 6 and 2. Our
family
has since enjoyed being "on the road" every chance we get. So far we've
managed to visit nine states and log over 10,000 miles with our home away
from home. Sure beats a pop-up tent trailer, right?
I look forward to relating some of our experiences, as much as I do
hearing
more of yours.
Chris Siiteri
Austin, TX
------------------------------
Message Number: 11
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:44:17 -0400
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Greg? Strong-Arm tactics? hanges in Membership Status
Greg,
Short and sweet.
If it wasn't for the WBCCI in the first place, there would be NO VAC
group.
Period.
As you've said below, you "have enjoyed access to the members-only
portions
of the VAC website for over a year now, as have others in my membership
class."
Fine. Dandy. Great, good for you and the others that were really not
playing by the rules through no fault of your own. On the other hand it
is
no ones fault that you and others in your status are being informed that
*now* you will have to live up to the charter or whatever the VAC was
formed
under.
So? What's the big deal here? It has *always* been that way. I
couldn't
even JOIN the VAC until I had a trailer that WAS 20 years old. I could
be a
'friend' of the VAC or whatever just to get the newsletter but we didn't
even HAVE online stuff back in 1989 when I was so excited just to read
about
vintage Airstreams.
Do you really think that you and others, my self included, who own
vintage
classic Airstreams have a corner on this *vintage* market? Surely you
jest!
You say you've only been in the VAC for a year. Well, I've been in
vintage
Airstreams for over 14 years now and I'm darn glad to be able to get
whatever information about my classic Airstream I can get my hands on.
Seems to me that those who'd complain about being "strong armed" into
joining the WBCCI have their priorities mixed up. You and others should
be
more than happy to *continue* being in the VAC *and* the WBCCI if for
nothing else to pay back in kind something to the very group of people
who
so freely *gave* information to you in the first place.
As far as not being able to have one without the other that works this
way
just so you will understand what I'm saying: the VAC is by and through
the
WBCCI. What don't you understand about that phrase? Join the WBCCI and
be
done with it. Whatever you get or don't get out of the WBCCI is
entirely up
to you. And others for that matter.
Would you really just up and walk out on your friends in the world of
Airstreams like that? All I can say is if your answer is "yes", ....
you
know the rest of that line.
This statement of yours:
> ... "is an obvious attempt to strong-arm these folks into the
> WBCCI -- in many cases before they have a trailer road ready enough to
take
> to a rally!
says a lot about you. Are you sure you want people thinking the way you
posted? Don't you think the word "strong-arm" means it's almost
"criminal"?
Or perhaps that really was your intent? When I think of "strong-arm" I
think of crooks and mobsters. Is that what YOU really think the WBCCI is
all about?
Maybe you really don't want to be around the likes of members who are NOT
into "strong-arm" tactics but they are into making clubs work for a very
long time without people who think like you do. Oh, and I must say that
I've never come across one single WBCCI person yet who I wouldn't trust
parked out in my yard overnight as a courtesy to them just *because* they
are some of the nicest people in the world as we know it.
Closing sections of the website that was "members" only that you were
free
to go to in the first place has you upset? Well, it DID say "members"
area
did it not? What don't you understand here? Members means WBCCI, always
has. The fact that it was not enforced has absolutely nothing to do with
your not having access to that area now that others have been made aware
of
it. We live our lives by rules, without rules our society would be out
of
control. Tell me I'm not seeing people out of control when they openly
suggest that the WBCCI is using "strong-arm" tactics to increase
membership.
Tell me.
In all likelihood you'd never attend any rally anywhere if it had a
thing to
do with the WBCCI. You would come and take whatever you needed, but what
would you give back? To your club? What have you given back to the VAC
so
far?
Being a member has its priviledges as you've now found out. So what if
you
got a free ride for a while? Now that you know the rules why is it so
hard
to live up to what is expected of you?
Pay up and have a great time, take what you need, volunteer to help
others
and yourself. You will be a better person for it. But never never ever
accuse or even suggest that the WBCCI is using "strong-arm" tactics.
Whatever you do about your statement now is up to you. Your move.
Tom
WBCCI 5303 - since 1988
> Closing these sections of the website, which are especially valuable to
new
> vintage owners, is an obvious attempt to strong-arm these folks into the
> WBCCI -- in many cases before they have a trailer road ready enough to
take
> to a rally!
>
> Greg Hankins
> '76 Trade Wind
------------------------------
Message Number: 12
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:47:03 -0400
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Intellipower URL
Thanks, Melvin!
Tom
From: "Melvin Mudgett-Price" <mprice@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
>
http://www.progressivedyn.com/_frames/frames_service_converters_for_sale.htm
l
------------------------------
Message Number: 13
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:52:23 -0400
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Freebies? Changes in Membership Status
No one is taking anything away. Enforcement of rules under the
originating
charter or whatever it is called is certainly fair and just.
Just because you got something that you weren't supposed to originally
have
does not make it a precedent.
Be thankful for small things, getting access to the "members" area was
one
of those small things I would think. You have now been informed how you
can
have it all since it appears you did like the taste you were given
freely up
until now. Free samples are always nice but not everyone appreciates it
if
they wanted a steady diet of freebies.
Tom
From: "Cynthia Grant" <Cynthia.Grant@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
. .............
. If WBCCI/VAC wants to take the web access benefit away from the
Friends
category of VAC members, that is their prerogative, just as it is the
prerogative of any individual to express their opinion about that action,
and to join or decline to join WBCCI/VAC under the NEW rules.
------------------------------
Message Number: 14
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:57:31 -0500
From: "John R. Kleven" <jrkleven@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: Belt insert..
Jeff,
I've been through this with my old 76. You need to rivet it in place at
the
start and end points like it was when new, for me it was under the side
emblems. It will shrink and expand (leaving gaps) like you said if it is
not secured at the start and stop points. I had to use a hair dryer to
make
it pliable enough to get it fully seated between the aluminum grooves,
but
once in place and secured, it never happened again.
Randy
> OK, here's a good one for ya, About a year and a half ago I got some of
> that blue insert that goes in the belt around the outside of the trailer
> that connects the belly to the top and ever since I put it on the darn
> stuff shrinks and expands depending on how warm/cold it gets. It seems
> to want to pop out in the strangest places! Help!........Jeff 77
> Sovereign
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
> http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
>
> When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 15
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 00:12:28 -0400
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: An introduction, if you please
Welcome, Chris.
Has anyone offered yet to introduce you to a WBCCI member in your area of
the country? If not, please drop me a line and I'll see if I can get
that
done for you. I know people who know people who know people and surely
with
all that we can get you lined up to show you how nice it is to be
welcomed
to your new family of friends in Airstreams.
Tom Meeker
WBCCI 5303
tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com
From: "Chris Siiteri" <csiiteri@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAC] An introduction, if you please
> Greetings,
>
> My name is Chris, and I admit I am neither a member of VAC or WBCCI.
> This
> may change though after reading many of the emails regarding the
> organization, and in consideration of the value I have already received
> from the daily list digest. I want to thank all of you who contribute
> to
> the discussions. I am curiously drawn to the computer daily,
> anticipating
> the good, the bad and the ugly experiences you share, as a result of
owning,
> or dreaming of one day owning one or more of these vintage capsules of
time
> and travel. I also call on other lurking list members to enter in, and
> contribute as well.
>
> In April of 2001, we aquired the 1963 Ambassador pictured
> http://vintageairstream.com/archives/%2763Ambassador.html
> on the VintageAirstream.com photo archives. My wife, Darcie actually
drove
> to IN, a 3K mile round trip to pick it up. She did this in our 2001
> Excursion 7.3L P.S.Deisel, with our two children ages 6 and 2. Our
> family
> has since enjoyed being "on the road" every chance we get. So far we've
> managed to visit nine states and log over 10,000 miles with our home
> away
> from home. Sure beats a pop-up tent trailer, right?
>
> I look forward to relating some of our experiences, as much as I do
hearing
> more of yours.
>
> Chris Siiteri
> Austin, TX
------------------------------
Message Number: 16
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 00:15:07 -0400
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Randy Belt insert..
Randy,
Have you ever found a way to make that belt material really last? Seems
to
me that the ultraviolet rays make it unusable after many years. Maybe
they
make a sunscreen for this stuff? ;)
From: "John R. Kleven" <jrkleven@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Jeff,
> I've been through this with my old 76. You need to rivet it in place at
the
> start and end points like it was when new, for me it was under the side
> emblems. It will shrink and expand (leaving gaps) like you said if it
> is
> not secured at the start and stop points. I had to use a hair dryer to
make
> it pliable enough to get it fully seated between the aluminum grooves,
> but
> once in place and secured, it never happened again.
> Randy
------------------------------
Message Number: 17
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:25:36 -0700
From: "Kathy Hunt" <khunt@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Memebership
Why is it that some people always want to be the "Guest" but never the
provider? The "Friends" were allowed to look the WBCCI over and then
join. I can think of no organization that allows guest to remain
guests
forever. Sort of like the Mother-in-law that came to dinner and never
left. One is not always allowed to pick and chose. Do you have the
right to choose which laws you want to respect?
Kathy
------------------------------
Message Number: 18
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:32:37 -0500
From: "John R. Kleven" <jrkleven@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: Randy Belt insert..
I doubt a sunscreen is really practical for preserving plastic similar to
Amoral really protecting tires. After all, who has the time to keep the
stuff on. Shading plastic is really the best method of preservation. I
replaced my trim when the trailer was 23 years old and just figured I
would
be doing it again in 10 years or so if the plastic trim still exists
then.
I know where you can get tons of the stuff if you want to stock up!
Randy
> Randy,
>
> Have you ever found a way to make that belt material really last? Seems
to
> me that the ultraviolet rays make it unusable after many years. Maybe
they
> make a sunscreen for this stuff? ;)
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 19
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 01:42:54 -0400
From: Terry Tyler <tylerbears@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Membership change
on 09/19/02 9:59 AM, s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net wrote:
> snip> snip> snip>
>
> Please remember that without the WBCCI there would be no VAC, nor the
> website
> nor the list. PLEASE BECOME INVOLVED WITH THE CLUB, MAKE IT BETTER FROM
> THE
> INSIDE. Attacks from the outside will not improve anything, it will just
> divide and splinter.
>
> Scott Scheuermann VACList Monitor, Region 4 VAC Representative, 1st VP
> Cleveland Ohio Unit
>
Hey Scott,
Your comments were read with great interest. I haven't seen the article
in
question, but I do have a few comments about the direction we're taking
with
this clarification of membership status.
For the last several years, it seemed to me the "VAC Friends phenomena"
had
mysteriously tapped into an unusually strong ground swell of interest
which
none of us anticipated way back when VAC was created. Now that high
interest
is here with healthy vitality and active involvement, it makes sense to
consider blending the previously loosely enforced rule into the bigger
picture (with WBCCI), EVEN THOUGH it was brought on by someone who
chose to
be confrontational about his membership status.
How do we deal with this issue in a way that we maintain the support and
participation of ALL owners (VAC Friends and WBCCI members) who have
Vintage
Airstreams? Simple, we play by the rules that were always there.
Everyone is
included, no one receives preferential priviledge or is excluded from
paying
their fair share.
For many years recently, there have been hundreds of WBCCIers taking all
sorts of initiative to help the Club reinvent itself both creatively AND
differently from the failed methods used previously. As a group, my gut
feeling is we share an unprecedented openness to new ideas and readiness
to
roll with what looks to be a good thing. More than likely, that
contributed
in part to the membership rule not being enforced.
When the Friend category was first established, some of us, myself
included,
didn't think very far beyond doing our small part of freely offering our
observations, resource knowledge and practical experiences to "Friends"
on
the internet. All we wanted to do was to share our enthusiasm for
restoring
these beautiful icons of years past with anyone who showed an interest.
The
name of the game was inclusiveness with supportive encouragement. In my
opinion, that was and still is a win-win situation for everyone.
I must admit when membership in the Friends category began snowballing on
us, I didn't focus on it at all. Good things were happening. I was happy
contributing to them in my own small way. But, when the bigger picture
was
inadvertently thrust upon us, that put VAC into the arena of rules and
enforcement.
As far as being interested in everything within WBCCI, I'm not
interested in
certain activities, nor am I interested in some of the activities
sponsored
by VAC, but that doesn't matter. What does matter is that activities
which
strongly interest my wife and me are available to us because we're part
of
WBCCI/VAC group. The same concept applies to dozens of organizations we
support with our membership money. Sandie and I participate in only a
fraction of what each group offers. But that fraction is what generates
our
involvement and enthusiasm.
To me, the enforcement of VAC's membership rule says VAC is on a
reasonable
path. One more point; there's really no change in access to technical
information as some has stated. There is at least one other massive
technical information archive relating to Airstreams (and other brands).
My
experience is that a good share of the data in both archives is
overlapping
and/or a duplicate. Thus, access to knowledge is not an issue. Plus, in
this
age of instant information, search engines are everywhere.
Terry
mailto:tylerbears@xxxxxxxxxx.net
------------------------------
Message Number: 20
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 01:48:10 -0400
From: Terry Tyler <tylerbears@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: An introduction, if you please
on 09/19/02 11:34 PM, csiiteri@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com wrote:
> Sure beats a pop-up tent trailer, right?
Snazzzzy rig. I'm sure all of you will enjoy it immensely. Welcome to the
VAC email discussion group.
Terry
------------------------------
Message Number: 21
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:20:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Toby Folwick <toby_folwick@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Changes in Membership Status
As far as I know, you don't have to be a member of
anything to join the VACList. Correct me if I'm wrong
here (of course!)
Secondly, I think, that if the numbers of the WBCCI
are dwindling, and the VAC wants to have a hope of
improving that situation, the VAC should be an
incubator. SO - let's take a look at some
hypotheticals here - and these are IN NO WAY intended
to represent REAL feelings of the VAC or ME.
> From a prospective WBCCI'ers perspective:
(hypothetical case #1)
Hey, I'm 32 with a vintage Airstream that's in a
garage 1/2 taken apart, and a little Honda that won't
pull the thing: what do I need? I need the VACList to
answer my questions. Do I need the archives? No-Way.
so, why in the heck would I pay for anything? I can't
drag my trailer to a rally until I have a puller, and
why would I even care to go to a rally if nobody gives
a hoot about me - they certainly didn't nurture me as
a prospect for the future of this club - and I've got
all these people on Yahoo! Groups that I can chat
with... hrm, what do I choose?
> From the VAC's perspective:
(hypothetical case #2)
We want a strong and lasting club who nurtures the
restoration and care of vintage Airstreams BUT above
that, we want to grow a group of people who can carry
on the traditions and values into another 70 years of
Airstreamers - and we want to be proud to have been a
part of it. hrm, how do we do that?
-----
hate to say it, but a baby doesn't become a grown-up
if the parents don't feed it milk. I think a "friend"
of the VAC should get the newsletter, and get access
to the online archives - full members get full access
to rallies, caravans, discounts on official VAC
merchandise, and access to additional off-line
resources.
.02 cha-ching.
Toby Folwick
VACList co-monitor
W.B.C.C.I. Region 7 #2029
Renewing VAC Member (3rd year?)
32 years old, no puller.
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Message Number: 22
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:34:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Toby Folwick <toby_folwick@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Membership discussion - moderation.
Rule #1:
respect the opinions of every member REGARDLESS of
whether they agree with you or not.
Rule #2:
Respond thoughtfully, no namecalling, no
down-with-the-man inferences. we have chosen to leave
this discussion open, and we trust that it will be
informational - but as a monitor, I REFUSE to let it
get out of hand. We're not telling each other *how*
it is, we're discussing *why* it is.
TO REITERATE: Scott, one of the VACList co-monitors
suggested that we *THINK* about our responses - I've
read a few that seem very reactive, and that's not
acceptable. sleep on your response before sending it,
and choose your words carefully. As change happens we
need to approach it with tact.
THANK YOU.
Toby Folwick
VACList co-moderator
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Message Number: 23
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 03:33:13 -0400
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Randy Belt insert..
Randy,
Oh, no .... I wasn't asking about that plastic insert stuff for my
vintage
classic. In 1969 they painted the color blue onto the beltline trim.
There's always paint around but thanks for the offer anyway.
Tom
> I doubt a sunscreen is really practical for preserving plastic similar
> to
> Amoral really protecting tires. After all, who has the time to keep the
> stuff on. Shading plastic is really the best method of preservation. I
> replaced my trim when the trailer was 23 years old and just figured I
would
> be doing it again in 10 years or so if the plastic trim still exists
> then.
> I know where you can get tons of the stuff if you want to stock up!
> Randy
------------------------------
Message Number: 24
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 01:10:02 -0700
From: Brad Norgaard <stream2699@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: painting a panel heater louvered cover
Hi Cindy,
I received the lights and they are perfect. I'll more than likely get
them
chromes as I have the entire furnace cover, some parts for the stove and
the
stove exhaust fan cover. If your furnace is like mine, you should
consider
getting it chromed. Email me if you want pictures.
Brad Norgaard
Phoenix
'59 Trade Wind Twin
VAC #2699, TCT
> Hi all,
> I have a wall panel gas heater in my 60 Traveler. I need to paint the
> louvered cover and want to know if anyone else has painted a similar
> heater.
> This one is copper colored.
> The question: Do I need to use heat resistant paint or not?
> I'd appreciate hearing your experiences.
> Thanks.
>
> Cindy
> 60 Traveler
------------------------------
Message Number: 25
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 04:43:40 -0400
From: "Wayne A. Moore" <wam52@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: VAC membership
Hi gang,
I have been monitoring the list postings during this recent barrage
of
anti WBCCI sentiment and have taken Scott's advice of taking time to
draft a
response that is appropriate and professional. The list is not the club,
the
views expressed are that of a small minority, The official club position
on
the issues has been stated and the voting membership's decision regarding
membership and finances will stand! As the issues are defined by
membership,
it is in my area of responsibility and I will discharge my duties as
membership Chair and answer them as required.
However the real drivers to the decisions that were rendered are Club
Finances and Insurance. The Intraclub by default has been subsidizing the
website and the newsletter for the past three years. Rising cost has
depleted the VAC Treasury Surplus to the point that if we continued
operating at the present level we would be in danger of operating in the
red
next year when more drastic measures would have been necessary. This is
why
the dues went up. As an additional consequence, a moratorium on
additional
spending and services was enacted. The closing of the website Members
area
to non members unfortunately became a statistic in all of this. It was
never
intended to be available for the long term benefit of non members.
WBCCI/VAC
members have painstakingly assembled the largest archive of information
on
vintage Airstreams known to exist. It was done by member volunteers with
club funds for the membership and not the general public.
As an enticement to membership both the newsletter and the website
members area access were offered to non-member Airstream owners and
admirers at bargain basement prices. In effect we have given away those
very resources that attract many people to the club. We are sorry we can
no
longer afford to do this!
The membership statistics show that non member subscriptions have
been
on the rise and that more than 70 percent have already purchased their
first
Airstream. Since the cost of one faucet in a vintage rig is more than
the
cost of a full membership in the WBCCI/VAC, its ridiculous to conclude
that
money is the issue for people not joining.
So their must be another reason or reasons.
When my wife Linda and I joined the club over 3 Years ago we were
confused by the variety of member classes, units, intraclubs, Regions,
IBT,
HQ, Rallies, Rendezvous, Caravans and a host of other terms and rituals
that
were common knowledge to club members. We soon became acquainted with the
terms and procedures by simply joining and becoming involved in club
business and activities. We have now enjoyed numerous Rallies, Caravans
and
Rendezvous with Vintage members and Associates.
Reason #1 for not joining- We enjoy our privacy and want to go it
alone!
Can't argue with that we like to camp alone once in awhile ourselves.
My wife and I also enjoy working with our hands and Airstream
restoration is both fun and rewarding. So much so that we have 10 units
waiting for their turn to become whole again.
Reason #2 for not joining -I'm not interested in Caravanning or
going to
Rallies I just like to work on them and take them to a show.
Can't argue with that, We won best of show at the 2002 International in
Rapid City, SD
As time went on we became increasingly involved in club business.
Both
Linda and I have been involved with membership issues for the past
couple of
years and have met hundreds of great people from all walks of life and
financial means. Emails from many non members indicated that they thought
they were members of the club already.
Reason #3 for not joining-Why do I need to join when I'm already a
member!
Bingo!
The Clarification Email and Editorial as printed in the VA has already
netted some interesting results.
Friends that thought they were members are sending in their dues to
become full members so they can enjoy all that the club has to offer.
There
are those that have emailed me to tell me they had no intention of
joining
or ever purchasing an Airstream for a variety of good reasons. I tell
them
they can still get a great quarterly Vintage Club News Magazine for $20.
While were on the subject of money! Pressure on local Units to increase
membership has resulted in a fair number of non members with non
airstreams
attending vintage events on a regular basis. Under our present liability
insurance for our Officers and organizers, non members may attend only
one
event for the purposes of recruitment, so we needed to restate under
which
conditions one could attend!
Reason #4 for not Joining-We only attend 1 VAC Rally per year why
should I
pay $45 to the WBCCI and $15 to be a member at large?
The answer is all the Administration, Insurance and Major Publications
other
than the VA are paid for by the WBCCI for the VAC! That's what the $45 is
for
and if the WBCCI did not exist, Membership in the VAC would be $80. And
guess what, that is exactly what is costs our members today. So Frankly
if
you have had the benefit of our resources and come to our rallies for
less,
consider yourself lucky.
The final issue is, some folks have this aversion to the image of the
WBCCI.
They feel that it is somehow different from the VAC.
Reason #5 for not Joining-We only want to join the VAC and only attend
Vintage Rallies because that's our interest.
My Answer is, look inside the latest issue of the Vintage Advantage and
see
the VAC members having fun, proudly carrying unit flags, enjoying
entertainment, doing community service, visiting our nations natural
wonders
and monuments. and strutting their stuff on the Concourse. Yup you
guessed
it,
they are all WBCCI Members.
So If the people in this News Magazine look like you, You're a candidate
for
the WBCCI/VAC.
Call me 603-881-5299 or email me wam52@xxxxxxxxxx.net so I can sign you up
today!
See Ya Down The Road.
Wayne A. Moore (WAM)
3rd Vice President &
Membership Chairman
Vintage Airstream Club
WBCCI 15116
------------------------------
Message Number: 26
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:00:12 -0500
From: "John R. Kleven" <jrkleven@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: Randy Belt insert..
Tom,
I'm confused bro, I swore you and Jeff were talking about the plastic
trim
insert shrinking but I deleted it already. His was a 77, I think and
should
have the plastic. Your right, the 69 is painted as is my 68.
Randy
> Randy,
>
> Oh, no .... I wasn't asking about that plastic insert stuff for my
> vintage
> classic. In 1969 they painted the color blue onto the beltline trim.
> There's always paint around but thanks for the offer anyway.
>
> Tom
>
>> I doubt a sunscreen is really practical for preserving plastic similar
to
>> Amoral really protecting tires. After all, who has the time to keep
>> the
>> stuff on. Shading plastic is really the best method of
>> preservation. I
>> replaced my trim when the trailer was 23 years old and just figured I
> would
>> be doing it again in 10 years or so if the plastic trim still exists
then.
>> I know where you can get tons of the stuff if you want to stock up!
>> Randy
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
> http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
>
> When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 27
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:35:39 -0500
From: "Don Hardman" <donhardman@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: Belt insert..
----- Original Message -----
From: "John R. Kleven" <jrkleven@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Jeff,
You need to rivet it in place at the
> start and end points like it was when new, for me it was under the side
> emblems.
This is wht I did to mine as well. Should fix the problem.
------------------------------
Message Number: 28
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:43:15 -0500
From: "Don Hardman" <donhardman@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: Vent covers
I will dig mine out of the attic and get a measurement. The
hardware/operators are still on the trailer and used for the replacement
vents. Except for the one that I removed the entire unit to install the
fantastic fan/vent. Have you considered a fantastic vent. Great product.
http://members.aol.com/adohen1/page/Fan-tastic.htm
http://www.fantasticvent.com/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "mani" <mani@xxxxxxxxxx.nl>
To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 7:58 PM
Subject: [VAC] Re: Vent covers
> I just went out, made some light (it is 1.30 at night) and took the
> sizes
of
> the cover that is still left.
> The total length of the cover is 385 x 385 mm. 1 inch is 25,4 mm so that
comes
> down to 15,16 inch.
> The round corners have a radius of about 1 inch. That means that the
straight
> part is a bit more
> than 13 inch long. Is this all correct??
> My cover (front) is totaly closed and has a flat top. Maybe / probably
> the
> bathroom had one with a
> plastic insert? No problem to rapair that.
> What you call the hardware that are the original operators.
>
> Victor
>
>
> Don Hardman wrote:
>
>> They are the 14" x 14" rounded corner aluminum vent cover. They
originally
>> had a plastic insert in the top to serve as a skylight effect. This
plastic
>> insert has long since deteriorated andthe hole remains. The question is
will
>> they fit the opening and hardware in your model and I don't know the
answer.
>>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
> http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
>
> When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 29
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:56:09 EDT
From: JSmith1805@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: MIA/POW
Todayhas been designated as"POW/MIA Recognition Day"Lits all of us take a
moment to rember these warrers who answered the call of our country in
its
time of need.In korea there were over 8000 POWs and 0ver 7000 MIAs who
will
be foreaver missing.
When parked I always display the American Flag and The MIA/POW flag(am
often
asked what the black flag is for) Lets all rember.
Jim Smith
1992 Tradewind(The Silver Abaltross)
1992 Dodge Cummins Diesel
------------------------------
Message Number: 30
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:17:03 -0400
From: Jim Dunmyer <jdunmyer@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Chargers and care
Dave,
As some others have suggested, the answer to your battery problems is
an Intelli-Power converter/charger. I've installed them in both of my
Avion trailers and am very happy; they charge 'low' batteries quickly,
but don't boil the water out of 'full' batteries. I add water maybe once
or twice per year.
Although I'm unfamiliar with the late-model UniVolts, the older ones
weren't much better than your Sears battery charger. In any event, I've
seen prices quoted for a new UniVolt that were higher than the I-P
w/Charge Wizard. Without doing any shopping around, you can get the I-P
and Charge Wizard for about $225.00 from Camping World.
If you'd like some more information on batteries and how to treat them,
see:
http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/dcfaq.htm
<<Jim>>
Dave Huffman wrote:
> Until this morning I was unaware that my mission in life is to destroy
> my
> '67 Caravel batteries.
> This morning I finally got around to checking the voltage on my
> recharging
> batteries. Hmmm, 9.6 volts! I double checked the voltage meter on
> several
> other batteries, all of which were 11.6 - 12.6 volts.
>
--
<<http://www.oldengine.org/members/jdunmyer>>
<<jdunmyer@xxxxxxxxxx.com>>
<<lower SE Michigan, USA>>
<<mailto:jdunmyer@xxxxxxxxxx.com>>
------------------------------
Message Number: 31
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:46:17 EDT
From: Inlandrv@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: Vent covers
Airstream changed from the square corner Solardome (14 x 14) to the round
corner in 1965. They changed from the square corner Astrodome (14 x 26)
to
the round corner in 1966.
Andy
inlandrv.com
airstreamparts.com
------------------------------
Message Number: 32
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:51:07 -0400
From: Greg Hankins <ghankins@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: Changes in Membership Status
Toby Folwick ( VACList co-monitor, >W.B.C.C.I. Region 7 #2029, Renewing
VAC
Member (3rd year?)) wrote:
> hate to say it, but a baby doesn't become a grown-up
> if the parents don't feed it milk. I think a "friend"
> of the VAC should get the newsletter, and get access
> to the online archives - full members get full access
> to rallies, caravans, discounts on official VAC
> merchandise, and access to additional off-line
> resources.
>
And the hypothetical that led up to that conclusion is very worthwhile
reading, if you missed it. Toby captures exactly my point. The VAC can
serve -- and probably already has served -- as a very important conduit
for
new members to the WBCCI, just as this list - freely available to anyone
with an e-mail connection - is undoubtedly the primary conduit for new
VAC
members.
Terry Tyler wrote:
> One more point; there's really no change in access to technical
> information as some has stated. There is at least one other massive
> technical information archive relating to Airstreams (and other
> brands). My
> experience is that a good share of the data in both archives is
> overlapping
> and/or a duplicate. Thus, access to knowledge is not an issue. Plus, in
> this
> age of instant information, search engines are everywhere.
And I'm sure he's right. But why in the world would the VAC or WBCCI
leadership want to turn people like Toby's 32-year-old away, tell them to
look for other resources, and miss the best opportunity they will ever
have
to convert this person into a Frend of VAC and, later, a member of both
VAC
and WBCCI. Why not give them the information they are looking for at a
nominal cost, then, with regular and well-designed marketing messages,
encourage them to voluntarily join the WBCCI? (I reiterate that, in my
one
year as a VAC Friend, I have received a single e-mail soliciting my
membership to the WBCCI. That's just not good use of a great lead.)
I really appreciate the value that WBCCI members find in their
participation in that organization, an appreciation that has generated an
impressive number of testimonials and not a little chest-thumping in this
discussion thus far. Ed Emerick's and Paul Waddell's testimonials gave me
several new things to think about as I decide whether or not to join
WBCCI.
What is not helpful, what does not make one want to associate with WBCCI,
is the "Them's the rules; my way or the highway; WBCCI, love it or leave
it; Guests are like fish - after three days they stink" attitude others
have displayed.
And the recent, essentially unannounced move by VAC to close the
technical
portions of the website to "Friends" comes very close to manifesting that
uninviting attitude.
I'm really happy to see some members of the VAC leadership contributing
to
the discussion. I hope that, through the kind of constructive posts Scott
requested, members of the leadership will rethink their decision to
exclude
"Friends" from the technical portions of the website.
Again, thanks to the moderators for letting this discussion proceed.
Toby's
point as moderator about maintaining a civil level of discourse is one
that
I plan to follow. If anything that violates that spirit appears in one of
my posts, I hope the moderators will return it to me for rework.
Greg Hankins
'76 Trade Wind
______________________________________________________________
Greg Hankins Happy Hank's Honey House
ghankins@xxxxxxxxxx.net Mt. Gilead, North Carolina
------------------------------
Message Number: 33
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:22:49 -0400
From: Greg Hankins <ghankins@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: VAC membership
Wayne Moore (3rd Vice President & Membership Chairman, Vintage Airstream
Club, WBCCI 15116) writes:
> The closing of the website Members area
> to non members unfortunately became a statistic in all of this. It was
> never
> intended to be available for the long term benefit of non members.
> WBCCI/VAC
> members have painstakingly assembled the largest archive of information
> on
> vintage Airstreams known to exist. It was done by member volunteers with
> club funds for the membership and not the general public.
> As an enticement to membership both the newsletter and the website
> members area access were offered to non-member Airstream owners and
> admirers at bargain basement prices. In effect we have given away those
> very resources that attract many people to the club. We are sorry we
> can no
> longer afford to do this!
It us important here to be clear about what was the case and what is now
the case. VAC has operated not with only two classes of people -- members
and non-members -- but with three: members, friends, and non-members.
It is a change in the privileges available to Friends -- a category which
still exists -- that is at issue in my original post that started this
series of threads on membership. Over the past year, Friends have
received
the Vintage Advantage and have been able to access the Members section of
the website. They were asked to pay $10 in annnual dues, but did not have
to be members of the WBCCI. At least in the past year, true
non-members --
i.e., the general public at large -- have not had access to the members
section of the website.
The VAC has now increased dues paid by Friends to $20 and eliminated
access
to the members section of the website, which, when last I looked,
contained
technical articles, back issues of the newsletter, and lots of other cool
vintage Airstream stuff.
I, as a Friend, would like to have access to that stuff without being
forced to join WBCCI. I believe a substantial nmber of other Friends
share
my view.
In addition, I believe maintaining Friend access to this resource is a
good
way of increasing the numbers of Friends, which are a fertile target
group
for marketing full membership in the VAC and, of course, the WBCCI.
Wayne's
report in the last VA highlights "Friends" (who he calls VA
Subscriptions)
as the fastest growing VAC segment.
Friends dues -- now characterized more as a subscription to the VA --
have
doubled. I have no complaint with this. As Cynthia Grant suggested in one
of her posts, some Friends might be willing to pay $30 in order to have
full access to the website, if the financial drain is the problem. I
certainly would. Others may not, and at some price level, of course, you
begin to reduce the number of Friends you attract and therefore shrink
the
size of this pool as a marketing target.
The "Friends" category seems to have been seen as a way of attracting
potential full members, as Wayne says above. I understand that it has
caused some misunderstandings and some problems. But surely neither the
VAC
nor the WBCCI has decided to give up attracting members. The VA *and* the
technical section of the website are both strong attractants for new
Vintage owners, many, many of whom will probably eventually convert to
full
membership.
Wayne refers to "this recent barrage of anti WBCCI sentiment." I
apologize
that my post has opened some old wounds and unresolved debates about the
WBCCI. I certainly am not "Anti-WBCCI," just a Friend of the VAC who
would
like to remain one, and retain the privileges I enjoyed when I became
one,
while deciding separately whether to affiliate with the WBCCI.
Greg Hankins
'76 Trade Wind
______________________________________________________________
Greg Hankins Seven Lakes Times, L.L.C.
ghankins@xxxxxxxxxx.net P.O. Box 602
Voice: (910)673-0111 1008 Seven Lakes Drive
Fax: (910)673-0210 Seven Lakes, NC 27376
------------------------------
Message Number: 34
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:42:27 EDT
From: Inlandrv@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: Battery Chargers and care
We find it interesting when the NEW STYLE Intelli-power chargers are
compared to UNIVOLTS made 20 to 35 years ago. Surely, everyone would
agree
that technology has changed, at least in this area.
Lets compare the NEW STYLE UNIVOLTS with the Intelli-power chargers.
Why are there so many REBUILT Intell-powers available, and no UNIVOLTS???
Could it be that the UNIVOLT of today is the superior product???
We think so.
Sure the price is slightly greater. WHY??
Superior product is the answer.
Could we compare the price of a Chevy car against that of a Rolls Royce,
and
then say the Chevy is better because it's cheaper??? We don't think so.
Rarely can someone go out of the Airstream family for replacement parts,
instead of current Airstream replacements, AND, come out a winner.
We see the negative results of those attempts, on a daily basis.
Is Airstream's choice for the various components always right? Heck
no!!!
BUT, they are seldom wrong, and when they are, they are the first to
quickly
correct it.
That brings up the question of "why have they used the same univolt for
many
years?" It's not price folks, it's quality AND reliability!! And with
Airstream, that IS the bottom line.
Opinions differ, as well as reliability. So, why are there so many
rebuilt
Intelli-powers available???
Hmmm.
Andy
inlandrv.com
airstreamparts.com
------------------------------
Message Number: 35
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:14:44 -0700
From: Paul Farley <farley@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: On Friends
I've been biting my tongue on this issue but I have strong beliefs on
right and wrong.
Folks: The issue truly seems to be about access to the members only
archives. Why was this taken away when at one time it was basically
freely given? (I don't by the $$ issue, and I did sleep on it)
I respect the WBCCI attitude regarding waning membership and understand
the VAC hierarchies need to grab the ball and run. I realize it is a
thankless job and a Volunteer post, it's real easy to take pot shots at
the guys who are most visible. Wayne, RJ, Toby, Scott and all the rest
who make this available to the masses: THANK YOU!.
Toby nailed it! Let the friends have access: that's why we call
them friends. It isn't a $$ issue. The $$ issue is regarding
insurance at rallies, ok they can't go to rallies. But let's really
think our motives and tactics.
To take knowledge that was freely given at one time is wrong
Plato's philosophy is knowledge for knowledge sake.
As one who has contributed a little to the VAC archive I say give the
friends the right to read and learn. I don't feel very good about
someone taking back something I gave for all w/ internet access to
utilize. Some of the stuff I spent good $$ (a few years of WBCCI
memberships) to aquire and now I feel like I need a shower!
As most of you who are as sick as me with this aluminum ailment know
it's only a matter of time before the rest see the light! Why
discourage when we can encourage.
Friends to me are just that, they are not magazine subscriptions.
oops, just fell off the soap box.
Paul
WBCCI #2580
VAC
WDCU
------------------------------
Message Number: 36
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:16:10 -0600
From: "Fred Coldwell" <Agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: No specs on Univolt
Andy:
When I go the the IntelliPower web site, I can find facts
and specs on their various models and a detail description
of description of their ChargeWizard, all of which informs
me of the technology they sell and the benefits their
product provides. I know what I'm getting, so I bought an
IntelliPower and ChargeWizard last year.
When I go the the Inlandrv.com site and click on Univolt,
all I find is one photo of two Univolts sleeping side by
side. There is no description of what it does, no
description of electrical input and output (no volts, amps,
watts, etc.), no facts and no specifications at all. Does
it have a 3 stage battery charger? How can I "compare", as
you suggest, when there is no technical information
available online for the Univolt to compare it to the
IntelliPower? It looks like a lump, and the lack of any
factual data whatsoever suggests is is a lump. Otherwise,
the manufacture and/or sellers would provide some specs.
Even the uninformative and generally useless product
descriptions in various Camper World catalogs provide more
information about their products than I can find on your web
site for the Univolt.
If you claim the Univolt is the better product, then give
your potential customers hard data and specifications they
can use to intelligently compare it to the IntelliPower.
Your advice to compare products is good. All that remains
is to make it possible for people to do so.
Fred in Denver
Inlandrv@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
>
> Lets compare the NEW STYLE UNIVOLTS with the Intelli-power chargers.
> Could it be that the UNIVOLT of today is the superior product???
>
> We think so.
>
> Sure the price is slightly greater. WHY??
>
> Superior product is the answer.
------------------------------
Message Number: 37
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:52:54 -0500
From: "Don Hardman" <donhardman@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: Battery Chargers and care
----- Original Message -----
From: <Inlandrv@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Lets compare the NEW STYLE UNIVOLTS
Same comments made by Chris Jones with Bob Jones RV here in Houston
over 2
year's ago when my old univolt bit the dust. I took his advice and the
new
Univolt has worked great ever since.
------------------------------
Message Number: 38
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:30:00 -0700
From: "Carol and Oliver Filippi" <ofilippi@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Test Message
This is a test.
Please ignore
------------------------------
Message Number: 39
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:47:57 -0400
From: Chris Bryant <list@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Chargers and care
Inlandrv@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
> We find it interesting when the NEW STYLE Intelli-power chargers are
> compared to UNIVOLTS made 20 to 35 years ago. Surely, everyone would
> agree
> that technology has changed, at least in this area.
> Lets compare the NEW STYLE UNIVOLTS with the Intelli-power chargers.
> Why are there so many REBUILT Intell-powers available, and no
> UNIVOLTS???
>
> Could it be that the UNIVOLT of today is the superior product???
In my opinion, the Univolt has one thing going for it- it is
nearly bullet proof. After all, it consists of only a few parts- the
transformer, a pair of diodes, and one-three high voltage capacitors.
The most common failure I see in these is the capacitors going bad-
but they usually don't go bad very quickly.
That said- the Univolt design (which hasn't changed
since around '73) is heavy, noisy, does't run off a generator very
well (extremely frequency sensitive), cannot be used without a battery
(or large capacitor) in the circuit and doesn't treat the battery very
well.
--
Chris Bryant
mailto:bryantrv@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com
------------------------------
Message Number: 40
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:59:01 -0400
From: Chris Bryant <list@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Chargers and care
I wrote:
> In my opinion, the Univolt has one thing going for it- it is
> nearly bullet proof. After all, it consists of only a few parts- the
> transformer, a pair of diodes, and one-three high voltage capacitors.
> The most common failure I see in these is the capacitors going bad-
> but they usually don't go bad very quickly.
> That said- the Univolt design (which hasn't changed
> since around '73) is heavy, noisy, does't run off a generator very
> well (extremely frequency sensitive), cannot be used without a battery
> (or large capacitor) in the circuit and doesn't treat the battery very
> well.
I need to retract some of this- I wasn'r aware that the new
Univolt is a Magnetek/Paralax model 7455 switch mode converter.
I am really *not* a fan of this model- it is a good clean
electronic power supply, but I have seen many fail. IMHO the PD91XX
models are far, far superior.
--
Chris Bryant
mailto:bryantrv@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com
------------------------------
Message Number: 41
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 11:01:53 -0600
From: "Kenneth E. Johansen" <johansen@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: VAC Membership
It seems amazing to me that we want to pick and choose what benefits we
want and that we should only pay for those services we use. As a C.P.A. I
hear this all the time - we should not have to pay for a
school/road/service that we don't use. It doesn't work that way, we are
either part of a community or not. If we are part of the community we
need
to be willing to pay the price of admission that will benefit all of us
in
some way.
Seems to me if the VAC were not part of the WBCCI we would either pay
more
for what we get (and some want for free) or we would not be able to have
as
much as we have. Those who are not willing to pay WBCCI dues are being
subsidized by those who are if those who are not paying get the sames
services and benefits as those who are.
Ken Johansen
5358
59 Traveler
75 Tradewind
------------------------------
Message Number: 42
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:14:44 -0500
From: "Jim Combs" <jimcombs@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Chargers and care
The Inteli-power 9100 w/charge wizard puts
out 14.4 volts in 'boost' mode. Is that too
high a voltage for use with gel batteries?
Jimbo / '76 Sovereign
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Bryant [mailto:list@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
[snip]
> IMHO the PD91XX
> models are far, far superior.
------------------------------
Message Number: 43
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:15:09 EDT
From: Inlandrv@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: Battery Chargers and care
Chris.
Many owners apparently are not aware that Airstream switched to the
Magnetec
several years ago. However Airstream still calls it a "Univolt." Perhaps
that's the cause of the confusion.
The Magnetec, if you wish, is "solid state." It does not have the
inherent
problems that the old style Univolts had. Large capacitors and
transformers
are a thing of the past.
The weight of the old univolts that owners refer to is 25.4 pounds.
It's replacement Magnetec weighs 8.6 pounds, and does not need to have a
battery in the circuit, to still function correctly.
Andy
inlandrv.com
airstreamparts.com
------------------------------
Message Number: 44
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:15:19 -0400
From: "James Greene" <drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: Battery Chargers and care
When Truck and RV Supply has the Intelipower converter/chargers (which
isn't
all the time, unfortunately) the smaller one (45 amp?) goes for $150 and
the
larger one (55 amp?) for $160, both plus shipping. The Charge Wizard is
about $25 several places.
Jim Greene
' 68 Tradewind
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Dunmyer" <jdunmyer@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 10:17
Subject: [VAC] Re: Battery Chargers and care
> Dave,
> As some others have suggested, the answer to your battery problems is
> an Intelli-Power converter/charger. I've installed them in both of my
> Avion trailers and am very happy; they charge 'low' batteries quickly,
> but don't boil the water out of 'full' batteries. I add water maybe once
> or twice per year.
>
> Although I'm unfamiliar with the late-model UniVolts, the older ones
> weren't much better than your Sears battery charger. In any event, I've
> seen prices quoted for a new UniVolt that were higher than the I-P
> w/Charge Wizard. Without doing any shopping around, you can get the I-P
> and Charge Wizard for about $225.00 from Camping World.
>
> If you'd like some more information on batteries and how to treat them,
see:
>
> http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/dcfaq.htm
>
> <<Jim>>
>
> Dave Huffman wrote:
>
>> Until this morning I was unaware that my mission in life is to destroy
my
>> '67 Caravel batteries.
>> This morning I finally got around to checking the voltage on my
recharging
>> batteries. Hmmm, 9.6 volts! I double checked the voltage meter on
several
>> other batteries, all of which were 11.6 - 12.6 volts.
>>
>
>
> --
>
> <<http://www.oldengine.org/members/jdunmyer>>
> <<jdunmyer@xxxxxxxxxx.com>>
> <<lower SE Michigan, USA>>
> <<mailto:jdunmyer@xxxxxxxxxx.com>>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
> http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
>
> When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 45
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:23:06 -0500
From: "Jim Combs" <jimcombs@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: battery cables
My battery cables (battery to fuse panel) will end
up being about 4 feet long. I believe 4 AWG will
be adequate, but would there be any reason or
any type of advantage to going to 2 AWG?
Jimbo / '76 Sovereign
------------------------------
Message Number: 46
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:57:46 -0700
From: RJ.Dial@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Online Library access
Since much of the current discussion centers around "Friends" access to
the ever growing Online Library of old documents, as creator and
gatekeeper of the info I thought I'd provide some background info.
The website members area was conceived under past president Tom Reed's
reign, with the directive of "create a simple password
posted in the VA to try & keep those not interested in paying $10 out".
That was taken by me literally, hence the initial access to all VA
subscribers.
Fast forward 2 years and 2 administrations and the directive is now
only WBCCI/VAC members will have access. Each board has the authority
to make such a change. As I understand it, the change to exclude
"Friends" is a way to provide more value for the core WBCCI/VAC
membership classification. This was decided by proposal and vote at
the Int'l in July.
The VAC does not have any money yet invested in the library, as most of
what is there is from my personal collection and items sent to my
non-VAC website. That is about to change soon as the VAC Historian has
a budget to purchase documents that can be scanned and placed into the
online library.
That's the history; where the future leads lies with those who are able
to attend the annual Int'l. If you can't, let your regional rep and
current board know what path you'd like to see the VAC go:
http://airstream.org/contacts.html
Keep it real,
RJ Dial
VAC Webmaster
------------------------------
Message Number: 47
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:02:07 -0500
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: battery cables
There would be less voltage drop in 2 AWG compared to 4 AWG, but unless
you are running currents typical of an engine starter (100+ amps) the
voltage drop might not be significant and 2 AWG is a bit harder to
connect and route.
Gerald J.
--
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Message Number: 48
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:25:44 -0500
From: "Jim Combs" <jimcombs@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: Randy Belt insert..
Okay -- where?
Jimbo
-----Original Message-----
From: John R. Kleven [mailto:jrkleven@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
[snip]
> if the plastic trim still exists then.
> I know where you can get tons of the stuff if you want to stock up!
> Randy
------------------------------
Message Number: 49
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:59:07 -0400
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Online Library access
R J,
I'd just like to say "Thanks!" for all the good work that you and others
have done now and in the past for the VAC and may God bless this
organization well into the future as well.
My check for renewal will be in the mail as soon as possible.
How can a *value* ever be placed on the archives that the contributors
themselves have created? The archives themselves are *invaluable* (can't
really place a value on it as it's in the stratosphere) in my humble
opinion. I would hope that others would also see that their support of
the
WBCCI (can we say Parent here?) is paramount to the continued success of
the
VAC.
The very real concern I have for those interested in an a la carte menu
for
their personal needs only is just that. Just like some things in life
you
can't have one without the other; there would be no VAC unless it was
due to
the WBCCI initially.
Those who would refuse to ante up the cost of their continued 'dining' at
this time tells me that those who complain loudest are quite possibly
those
who would never have joined the WBCCI down the road as a matter of fact.
Having Friends get a taste of the VAC is great, having those same Friends
join both the WBCCI and the VAC is even better.
I have seen and dismissed the posts of others who say they still want
the a
la carte menu after it has really been explained that this is now how the
VAC was originally set up. Just because the price of the meal has
changed
is no reason to walk out and not support the current management of the
VAC.
Those same people who would walk out due to a price increase at their
favorite hangout are to me at least, not true to the cause to begin with.
VAC: Do what you need to do so that you may continue to help the
majority
of the ranks who come from the WBCCI first. Those who say they would
never
support the WBCCI have no idea apparently where the roots of the VAC come
from.
Tom Meeker
WBCCI 5303
Subject: [VAC] Online Library access
> Since much of the current discussion centers around "Friends" access to
> the ever growing Online Library of old documents, as creator and
> gatekeeper of the info I thought I'd provide some background info.
>
> The website members area was conceived under past president Tom Reed's
> reign, with the directive of "create a simple password
> posted in the VA to try & keep those not interested in paying $10 out".
> That was taken by me literally, hence the initial access to all VA
> subscribers.
>
> Fast forward 2 years and 2 administrations and the directive is now
> only WBCCI/VAC members will have access. Each board has the authority
> to make such a change. As I understand it, the change to exclude
> "Friends" is a way to provide more value for the core WBCCI/VAC
> membership classification. This was decided by proposal and vote at
> the Int'l in July.
>
> The VAC does not have any money yet invested in the library, as most of
> what is there is from my personal collection and items sent to my
> non-VAC website. That is about to change soon as the VAC Historian has
> a budget to purchase documents that can be scanned and placed into the
> online library.
>
> That's the history; where the future leads lies with those who are able
> to attend the annual Int'l. If you can't, let your regional rep and
> current board know what path you'd like to see the VAC go:
> http://airstream.org/contacts.html
>
> Keep it real,
> RJ Dial
> VAC Webmaster
------------------------------
Message Number: 50
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:59:07 -0000
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: An introduction, if you please
Chris,
Nice trailer and good for you and your wife! I was about your oldest
child's
age when my parents would pack my brother and I into Grandpa's old
Airstream
for a week long vacation. We did this every year for a couple of
decades. I
have many wonderful memories of the time we spent together as a family
and
the places we have gone. My wife and I now own Grandpa's old Airstream
and
we take it out as often as we can - usually for weekend jaunts with our
local WBCCI unit with our 6 month old son. At first we wondered how we
would
get along with a bunch of older people with whom we seemingly had so
little
in common. Turns out we had nothing to worry about as we made friends
quite
easily. Then when my wife became pregnant with our first child we REALLY
wondered if we would still be welcome. It turns out that these people are
great-its like being surrounded by grandparents who just want to be
around
him, and us!
This list helps me greatly in the upkeep of the trailer. Due to the
number
of outings we take in it, the "to do" list just keeps getting longer and
longer, but I am able to keep up with the essentials. One of these days
we
will have to park it for an extended time for repairs/rehab, but not
quite
yet, we enjoy using it too much.
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Siiteri" <csiiteri@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 3:34 AM
Subject: [VAC] An introduction, if you please
> Greetings,
>
> My name is Chris, and I admit I am neither a member of VAC or WBCCI.
> This
> may change though after reading many of the emails regarding the
> organization, and in consideration of the value I have already received
> from the daily list digest....
Our family
> has since enjoyed being "on the road" every chance we get. So far we've
> managed to visit nine states and log over 10,000 miles with our home
> away
> from home. Sure beats a pop-up tent trailer, right?
>
> I look forward to relating some of our experiences, as much as I do
hearing
> more of yours.
>
> Chris Siiteri
> Austin, TX
------------------------------
Message Number: 51
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 15:07:41 -0400
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: VAC Membership
Very well said, Ken.
Tom Meeker
WBCCI 5303
From: "Kenneth E. Johansen" <johansen@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> It seems amazing to me that we want to pick and choose what benefits we
> want and that we should only pay for those services we use. As a
> C.P.A. I
> hear this all the time - we should not have to pay for a
> school/road/service that we don't use. It doesn't work that way, we are
> either part of a community or not. If we are part of the community we
need
> to be willing to pay the price of admission that will benefit all of us
> in
> some way.
>
> Seems to me if the VAC were not part of the WBCCI we would either pay
> more
> for what we get (and some want for free) or we would not be able to have
as
> much as we have. Those who are not willing to pay WBCCI dues are being
> subsidized by those who are if those who are not paying get the sames
> services and benefits as those who are.
>
> Ken Johansen
> 5358
> 59 Traveler
> 75 Tradewind
------------------------------
Message Number: 52
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 20:45:08 +0000
From: mani <mani@xxxxxxxxxx.nl>
Subject: Re: Vent covers
Don, Don't worry about the hardware / operators. That is all complete and
working again in my trailer.
I only miss the 2 covers. Like you suggested I will install a
Fantastic-Vent on
the third roof opening.
It would be great when your sizes match mine (I mean the covers) and
all works
out fine.
Greetings
Victor Mani
Don Hardman wrote:
> I will dig mine out of the attic and get a measurement. The
> hardware/operators are still on the trailer and used for the replacement
> vents. Except for the one that I removed the entire unit to install the
> fantastic fan/vent. Have you considered a fantastic vent. Great product.
>
> http://members.aol.com/adohen1/page/Fan-tastic.htm
>
> http://www.fantasticvent.com/index.html
------------------------------
Message Number: 53
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 20:49:03 +0000
From: mani <mani@xxxxxxxxxx.nl>
Subject: Re: Vent covers
Andy,
When you talk about a square corner do you mean realy 90 degrees or a
rounded
corner
with a radius of about one inch?
Inlandrv@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
> Airstream changed from the square corner Solardome (14 x 14) to the
> round
> corner in 1965. They changed from the square corner Astrodome (14 x 26)
> to
> the round corner in 1966.
>
> Andy
> inlandrv.com
> airstreamparts.com
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
> http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
>
> When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 54
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 15:42:56 -0400
From: "Melvin Mudgett-Price" <mprice@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: No specs on Univolt
I can't comment on how well the Intellipower works but I can tell you
about the company. I ordered one 3 months ago on the recommendation of a
couple of people on airstreamforums.com. Because of certain personal
circumstances I had to return it unused. I called the company and they
were extremely polite and helpful and let me return the unit with no
hassles.
In fact they were so polite I sent a letter to the CEO commending his
sales department. This isn't something I do very often because I don't
find good old fashioned manners being used that much anymore.
Just for reference, the company that makes the converter sells them
re-manufactured on their site for $126.00 and the charge wizard is
$29.95. Andy got me thinking as to why they have so many remanufactured
units. Perhaps the next person to contact them could ask and let us all
know?
My only link to the company is as stated above, a satisfied
non-customer.
------------------------------
Message Number: 55
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:08:15 -0700
From: "Tim Shephard" <tim@telecom-pros.com>
Subject: Re: Online Library access
I would like to see the VAC Library for technical data open for all to
see
with no password.
Most of the materials there are or can be contributed by visitors of this
list or the VAC website. Many people can and have scanned their manuals,
and other documentation that they gain with their vintage purchase. So
this
portion of the library is made up from material freely given. I don't
think
the VAC should then turn around and charge for it.
This would greatly limit insentive for visitors to contribute what they
may
have.
I don't think it helps the restoration of vintage airstreams to keep
these
documents hidden. The main goal is to help preserve these wonderful
trailers.
I could see a charge for viewing the past newsletter archive since it
is a
present colaboration.
-Tim
tim@telecom-pros.com
www.telecom-pros.com/tim/tim
eFax (508) 590-0302
------------------------------
Message Number: 56
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:39:52 -0600
From: "Randy Unter" <runter@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Changes in Membership Status
I'm not a big fan of the WBCCI, and have said some unpolitically correct
things about them. The reality is our inter club, the VAC, has a number
of
high quality services: this list, VAC Web site, and the Vintage Vantage
to
name the best. If we were to pull out of the WBCCI and form our own club
and
maintain these quality services plus other needed services, like
liability
insurance (otherwise-no rallies), our dues would be greater than the
WBCCI,
local, and VAC combined. If you think about $20/year for dues with this
level of service, where else could you buy that? For those of you who
have
never attended a VAC rally, you're missing the best part of being a VAC
member. Forget the mile a minute, cram them in by the thousands rallies
of
the WBCCI. VAC rallies are all about meeting other VACers with the same
passion for restoring these magnificent structures which were built by a
visionary man who would not except anything less than perfection. Money
Magazine selected Airstream is one of the 99 things Americans make best.
We
know the vintage trailers earned that reputation. Look at the people
around
the world who share our passion.
So, I suck it in, write the checks, toss my Blue Beret in the trash when
it
comes, and focus on this quality organization and great folks who make it
happen. How's $80-90 VAC dues sound as an alternative.
Randy Unter
'66 Overlander
'73 Sovereign
Region 11 VAC Representative
Rocky Mountain Rally Wagon Master
------------------------------
Message Number: 57
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 16:57:47 -0400
From: "Thomas LaVergne" <tlavergne@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: Randy Belt insert..
RE: [VAC] Re: Randy Belt insert..
-----Original Message-----
> I know where you can get tons of the stuff if you want to stock up!
> Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Combs
Okay -- where?
I got mine from Jackson Center. They don't have red anymore but they
have
blue.
Thomas '78 Ambassador
------------------------------
Message Number: 58
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 17:25:56 -0000
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Free Membership!
Just in case you all did not know, the WBCCI does offer one years
membership
for free. The only catch is that you must have purchased your used
Airstream
on or after January 18th 2002. While this does not help those of us who
purchased our trailers earlier, it will undoubtedly help some of us. If
you
are interested feel free to contact me offlist at s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.net
Monitor Scott
------------------------------
Message Number: 59
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:44:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Toby Folwick <toby_folwick@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: General Converter questions. was: Battery Chargers and care
Just to verify - if I want to make AC into DC I need a
convertor right?
by that rationale, DC to AC would be an inverter
right?
so if both of those are the case, and I'm setting up
my trailer to be primarily solar powered, and will be
running lights (2/3rd of them anyway) on DC power, it
would be smart for me to get a couple good batteries
and a convertor (to charge the batteries in case I'm
plugged in to shore power)
right?
toby
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Message Number: 60
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:45:28 -0700
From: "My Airstream" <myairstream@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: Vent covers
Scott,
Thanx for the clear explanation. Do you have any wisdom on how the
triangular end of the lifters stays put in the tab of the vent cover?
In any event I am going to turn this research into a project. The rear
vent
cover need to come off and on while I experiment with freeing up the
lifters. I plan to use a sandbag on to of it at night, so I can get
back
to work with it.
If all goes perfectly I will be able to use my old lifters. Does anybody
know if the extended lifter (double length) is required with the fan?
If so
I will have to swap it out from the front vent where it currently
resides.
If worse comes to worse I'll use the aftermarket lifters from
inlandrv.com
I want to apologize for prematurely offering the vent covers and
lifters. I
have a file of good folks who need them.
Bob Kiger http://cruiserbob.com
66 Airstream Safari
Mira Mar Mobile Park
Oceanside, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 1:30 PM
Subject: [VAC] Re: Vent covers
> Bob,
>
> It is very easy to remove the vent lifters along with the attached vent
> cover. They remove as one piece. Each vent lifter is held in place by
> two
> pieces of aluminum coming from the vent frame inside your trailer just
above
> the screen. Take a screw driver and give it a little pry. After they are
> loose go outside with a stepladder, lean over and grab the vent/lifter
> assembly! This should allow you to better see what is going on.
>
> Scott
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "My Airstream" <myairstream@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
>
> Subject: [VAC] Re: Vent covers
>
>
> ...So it appears that the only way to do any work on the
>> vents is to remove the entire system from the roof and onto a bench.
>> Yuccch!.....
>>
>> Bob Kiger http://cruiserbob.com
>> 66 Airstream Safari
>> Mira Mar Mobile Park
>> Oceanside, CA
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
> http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
>
> When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 61
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:43:39 -0700
From: "Roger Hightower" <n7kt@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: Online Library access
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Shephard" <tim@telecom-pros.com>
To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 1:08 PM
Subject: [VAC] Re: Online Library access
> I would like to see the VAC Library for technical data open for all to
> see
> with no password.
>
> Most of the materials there are or can be contributed by visitors of
> this
> list or the VAC website. Many people can and have scanned their
> manuals,
> and other documentation that they gain with their vintage purchase. So
this
> portion of the library is made up from material freely given. I don't
think
> the VAC should then turn around and charge for it.
>
Want to guess how many Friends or non-members contributed materials?
I'll
bet RJ or Fred will say it was Zero.
> This would greatly limit insentive for visitors to contribute what they
may
> have.
See above.
>
> I don't think it helps the restoration of vintage airstreams to keep
> these
> documents hidden. The main goal is to help preserve these wonderful
> trailers.
True, BUT....if you own something other than a 1960's or earlier
Airstream,
you're out of luck because the material isn't there. Owners/Maintenance
manuals are available from Secretarial Services and any Airstreamer
should
have one for their particular rig.
If I recall correctly, the original complaint in this matter was written
by
someone who owns a 1976 model. There is nothing in the archives to help
there. Tom Patterson's archives would be a better resource, and you
don't
have to be a VAC member to access that.
>
> I could see a charge for viewing the past newsletter archive since it
> is a
> present colaboration.
I have them all, and I can tell you that there isn't a whole lot of
technical info there. Fun reading, though.
So, I guess the complaint boils down to plain old not wanting to join the
WBCCI. I'm like Randy Unter....I don't particularly like that, and have
only been to one WBCCI Rally, but it worth the cost of a couple of
six-packs
of Sprite a month to get to be a full member of the VAC. That's about
all
it really costs, and if someone can't afford that, they really shouldn't
be
trying to maintain a vintage rig.
Roger
Roger Hightower
WBCCI 4165, VAC, TCT
1975 31' Sovereign, '02 F-250 PSD
Mesa, AZ
mailto:n7kt@xxxxxxxxxx.net
------------------------------
Message Number: 62
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:03:29 -0400
From: Terry Tyler <tylerbears@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Sep/Oct issue Escapees magazine
When we saw the 1975 Airstream on the cover of this magazine and parked
in
front of NYC's twin towers, we knew it must have been taken during WBCCI
Statue of Liberty Rally in Liberty Park, NJ. This picture will be
priceless
in that family. Vern & Kathy Heaney (WBCCI 46190) are the owners.
Did anyone notice the tow vehicle? It's a 1951 International Metro Van -
like the ones that delivered milk to my house in the 1950s. During the
1960s, I saw many such milk trucks converted to tow vehicles and campers
for
fishermen on the beachs of Cape Cod. One of my neighbors has two of them
in
his garage. One is being restored while the other is his spare parts
shed.
It's a small world.
New topic:
Terry
mailto:tylerbears
------------------------------
Message Number: 63
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 15:17:58 -0700
From: "Gary Quamen" <g_quamen@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: Online Library access
>
> Want to guess how many Friends or non-members contributed materials?
> I'll
> bet RJ or Fred will say it was Zero.
Well Roger, you are wrong. I contributed the following Dometic
refrigerator
data:
http://www.airstream.net/members/documents/apmanuals/1965DometicRefer.pdf
Speaking of which, RJ, in view of recent developments regarding my
access to
this data, do you think it is fair or right for you to continue to
display
it?
GQ '67 Safari
Ex VAC
Member Classification: Friend
(See VA Vol 9 Issue#1 Q1,2002 pg.36)
------------------------------
Message Number: 64
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 15:23:28 -0700
From: "Roger Hightower" <n7kt@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: General Converter questions. was: Battery Chargers and care
Toby,
You're right. What you need are panels, a controller, good matched
batteries, and a converter. However, the converter would only be an
emergency item, since the panels would keep the batteries charged as
long as
there is sunlight.
Check out http://www.rvsolarelectric.com and get their little book. It
will
tell you all you need to know.
Roger
Roger Hightower
WBCCI 4165, VAC, TCT
1975 31' Sovereign, '02 F-250 PSD
Mesa, AZ
mailto:n7kt@xxxxxxxxxx.net
------------------------------
Message Number: 65
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 15:33:43 -0700
From: "Roger Hightower" <n7kt@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: Online Library access
OK, Gary, I'll start counting with you.
Roger Hightower
WBCCI 4165, VAC, TCT
1975 31' Sovereign, '02 F-250 PSD
Mesa, AZ
mailto:n7kt@xxxxxxxxxx.net
------------------------------
Message Number: 66
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:50:15 -0400
From: Terry Tyler <tylerbears@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Snowbirds
Hi All,
Our season for traveling begins the day after Halloween. That means
we're
about to again become Snowbirds for six months. During those months, we
look
forward to our VAC email as one of the ways to stay in touch with friends
and to continue learning about ways to restore our Airstreams.
Last year, we kept our subscription to the VAC email discussion group
active
nearly 100% of the time. But, the accumulation of email was often
overwhelming after a week where we hadn't found a nearby phone
connection.
This year, we've decided that every now and then, we'll put our
subscription
on temporary hold, especially while using primitive sites in National
Forests.
But, we'll maintain last year's practice of always keeping our ISP
address
active and receiving "off list" email. The down side for us is we'll miss
interesting discussion by VAC members. The down side for those who write
to
us directly may be that our reply won't occur in a timely fashion.
------------------------------
Message Number: 67
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:49:55 -0000
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: membership - moderation
Folks,
While the monitors will allow this discussion to continue a while longer
please remember insults/attacks will not be tolerated. Nor will
destructive
posts. Offending parties will be dealt with. Sometimes we have to agree
to
disagree.
On a related note, I suggest that you contact Wayne directly. HE IS THE
ONE
that can get something done about changing this situation.
wam52@xxxxxxxxxx.net
The monitors and webmaster have some say, but ultimately must bow to the
wishes of the officers. Wayne can ask for an executive meeting to change
the
current policy. If it is to change, the change will come through him, so
if
you are angry or frustrated please let him know (offlist if you can't
abide
by the previously mentioned rules). Perhaps if he is flooded with
requests
to make the technical pages open to all who have paid VAC dues, he can
go to
the rest of the leadership and get the rule changed. The VAC is not a
bunch
of rules and regulations, it is a group of people working together to
promote our common interest. If enough people (especially on the inside)
ask
for change the officers will respond by changing the rules as much as
they
can within the limits of the WBCCI. Access to the WebPages in this
current
controversy are one area that can be changed.
I for one, hope to quickly return to our normal focus of repair &
restoration, it is what brought me here, it is what keeps me here.
Moderator Scott
------------------------------
Message Number: 68
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:19:41 -0400
From: "Edward Emerick" <EEMERICK@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Memebership
Hi Kathy!
Just an FYI......... I loved my Mother-in-law!
Ed
A WBCCI Member in good standing.... so far.
-----Original Message-----
From: VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net [mailto:VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net] On Behalf Of
Kathy Hunt
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 12:26 AM
To: Multiple recipients of VACList
Subject: [VAC] Memebership
Why is it that some people always want to be the "Guest" but never the
provider? The "Friends" were allowed to look the WBCCI over and then
join. I can think of no organization that allows guest to remain guests
forever. Sort of like the Mother-in-law that came to dinner and never
left. One is not always allowed to pick and chose. Do you have the
right to choose which laws you want to respect?
Kathy
------------------------------
Message Number: 69
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 19:35:22 EDT
From: JSmith1805@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Membership
I have been following the latest conversely about membership and the
benifits(or lack of)of belonging to either organization whist I see from
my
prospective is nothing more than a tempest in a tea pot. I belong to
verus
organizations and have yet to find one that I can march lock step with
what I
have to do is to decide if I personally am better off belonging or would
I be
happier if I left.
I belong to both VAC &WBBCI There are areas in both that I agree with
and I
have disagreements with both. Each year I pay my dues to both. I receive
benefits from each.
My disagreements with WBBCI is that they seem to be somewhat a closed
society. We attended a year end dinner at our unit. received the
application
in the mail and sent it in we were newbies when attending the hostess
met us
at the door and welcomed us.We were seated at around table with 3 other
couples who carried on a conversation as though we were invisible no one
else
spoke to us. my solution is simple we will not attend again this year.
We went to one state rally up north and as vintage owners we were
consigned
into the most undesirable part of the park. will not attend there again.
The Airstream park at Cape May charged us $20.00 for one nights parking
in
the overflow aeries with only water and elect. Normally dont pay that
much in
private campgrounds.
This summer at a campground in SD a airstream parked besides us for
several
days the only conversation I had with him was when he har
d a repair man in to repair a problem and I went to the repairman to ask
him
when he was finisher to come over as I had a question and was informed
by the
owner that he didn'appricate me talking to his man when he was paying
him.
Pennwood Airstream park in PA we were treated royally the rates were
good we
were invited to all festivities so you see things tins to balance out.
Meby why I dont fit in is that I am only25 years old trapped in a 75year
old
body
In the VAC I have found a few opinionated members who have been very
critical
of what I am doing to my trailer. One told me the only acceptable coulor
for
the toungh wheels and bumper was silver or black Mine are now red as
well as
the Ac.
I have no quarrel with what any one else does to modify or costumes their
unit Mine is a work in progress and will continue to be one new cabinet
doors
are in progress as is a built in radio and tape deck as well as a
VCR(mite
want to show porno tapes)
I love rallies with the VAC members as we have much more in common V AC
as a
rule are much more outgoing I have found most try to be helpful and I
try to
recuperate.
Remember that each of us is an individual we are slightly different and
yet
we should all seek the same goal are mutual as well as individual
enjoyment
Jim Smith
1965 Tradewind (The Silver Abaltross)
------------------------------
Message Number: 70
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 16:40:03 -0700
From: "Roger Hightower" <n7kt@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: Snowbirds
Hey Terry,
What's your itinerary? We haven't crossed paths since Feb 2001 (Region
XI
Rally), so it's about time to see you again.
Besides, I'm sure we all get a kick out of your "travelogues".
Take care,
Roger
Roger Hightower
WBCCI 4165, VAC, TCT
1975 31' Sovereign, '02 F-250 PSD
Mesa, AZ
mailto:n7kt@xxxxxxxxxx.net
------------------------------
End of VACList-Digest #431
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