The Vintage Airstream E-mail List
Archive Files
VACList-Digest Monday, April 15, 2002 Issue 274
Today's Topics:
1. Re: 1958 Hitch Needs Help
2. Re: 1958 Hitch Needs Help
3. Re: 25 year rule - One Man's Opinion
4. <63 bathroom removal
5. Re: 25 year rule - One Man's Opinion
6. Re: Cracks in Fiberglas or plastic end caps help
7. Re: 25 year rule - One Man's Opinion
8. Vintage or not?
9. vintage rules
10. Re: 25 year rule - One Man's Opinion
11. Re: Discrimination
12. Re: vintage rules
13. Re: vintage rules
14. electrical short
15. Re: electrical short
16. Re: electrical short
17. Re: Vintage or not?
18. Re: electrical short
19. Re: vintage rules
20. Re: 66 Trade Wind
21. Re: Shower & Water Heater
22. Re: Discrimination
23. Re: electrical short
24. Re: Time Mag Airstream Photo
25. Re: Proposed Change for Vintage Airstream Club Eligibility
26. Re: vintage rules
27. FW: 25 year rule
28. Re: Shower & Water Heater
29. Strange advice
30. Re: FW: 25 year rule
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message Number: 1
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 21:42:07 -0400
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: 1958 Hitch Needs Help
Back in '58 the frame angle was narrower. I had to change the hitch on my
'60. They had a difficult time welding the new part in place. They made it
work, but it really was not designed for the angle of my frame.
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Dunmyer" <jdunmyer@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 7:46 PM
Subject: [VAC] Re: 1958 Hitch Needs Help
> Gerald,
> I've loosened stuff that you'd have sworn was WELDED, it was that
> rusty. I've also broken cast iron parts with the air hammer, so you do
> have to be careful. Of course, you made a good point about that hitch
> perhaps being shot anyway. If the trailer was mine, I'd probably replace
> it. Dunno about the 1958, but my 1968 was a 'standard' angle (whatever
> that is) and a hitch from Northern looked like it belonged.
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 2
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:18:40 -0400
From: Chris Elliott <celliott@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: 1958 Hitch Needs Help
Thanks Scott , its posts like that which keep me on the list . I didnt know
that .
Chris
Scott Scheuermann wrote:
> Back in '58 the frame angle was narrower. I had to change the hitch on my
> '60. They had a difficult time welding the new part in place. They made it
> work, but it really was not designed for the angle of my frame.
>
> Scott
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 3
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 22:43:54 -0400
From: "Thomas LaVergne" <tlavergne@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: 25 year rule - One Man's Opinion
Terry...Could not have said it better...thanks. I have a '78 A/S and I am
really looking forward to next year when it is 25 years old and I can join
VAC. I would be very disappointed if that did not happen due to a change in
the rules. What rule would change next? It would more than likely curtail
my enthusiasm for WBCCI. My Grandparents were very active in the WBCCI and
I plan on being the same. That being said I will also add that I do not
like groups that exclude their own membership, for goodness sake. I think
if the WBCCI wants to survive they need to change a bit with the times and
the interests of the membership. With the baby boomer generation cohort
moving up in age there is a tremendous potential for WBCCI to expand greatly
in their membership. But that expansion will challenge the status quo...all
groups evolve...they can not stay static, they must remain fluid to change.
The WBCCI of my Grandparents generation will more than likely not be the
WBCCI of my generation (born 1955). Things must change to keep stagnation
away and to meet the needs of the membership or the WBCCI will rust away.
My two cents worth.
Thomas #8848
'78 Ambassador
------------------------------
Message Number: 4
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 23:06:08 -0400
From: Chris Elliott <celliott@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: <63 bathroom removal
Its never safe to assume I consider anything , Terry ! < ;^)
I havnt given up on the old bronze saniware dump valve yet . A spray cup gasket
might be part of the fix , it (the valve) is still soaking in pb blaster ( before I
break the studs off anyway !)
But I had a design breakthrough while driving today ( never tailgate me !) for a
reworking of the area and a thin flat greywater tank with an updated valve .
I have a ways to go yet on other problem areas first, but will keep you updated on
progress and take pics of final fix .
Must be lots of trailers out there with similar problems .
Chris
Terry Tyler wrote:
> Is it safe to assume you have already considered making the rubber parts? My
> local hardware store makes any size or shape rubber gaskets from scratch,
Chris wrote
>
> > be reworked , as my bronze valve assembly is most likely unrebuildable due to
> > unavailable parts . Which is a shame because it is really a quality part -
> > hate to buy a plastic one -
>
> > when all it needs is new rubber parts .
>
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 5
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:27:47 -0800
From: Greg Hankins <ghankins@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: 25 year rule - One Man's Opinion
on 4/14/02 7:36 AM, Terry Tyler at tylerbears@xxxxxxxxxx.net wrote:
> From: Terry Tyler, WBCCI 6477 & VAC
> To: VACList, VAC Elected Officers 2001-2002
> Subj: 25 Year Rule - One Man's Opinion
>
<snip>
>
> My suggestion is to stay with the crisp and clean 25 year rule. Allow each
> of us to share the joy of restoring and using our wonderful old vintage
> vehicles without being artificially grouped on the basis of the decade our
> Airstreams were manufactured.
>
<snip>
Here! Here! And ditto to all the rest of Terry's post. Maybe the body shape
of my '76 isn't as cool as a '57, but the '57 doesn't have all that cool and
curvy tambour that makes the inside of my trailer look like the first Delta
flight I ever rode in (the one when the captain gave me a tour of the
cockpit and the nice lady gave me wings to wear.)
Fact is, they're all cool in their own way, and we all have a lot to learn
from fellow restorers, refurbishers, and redesigners, whatever model happens
to be their current pet project. (Love that Edison thing in the last VAC
newsletter!)
Betch a sawbuck that, way out there in 2027, this list will have a raging
discussion about how to repair scratches in the wilsonart laminate on the
dinette of one of those cool "old" "inside Design" Bambis that have that
great "turn of the century" look. Just hope I'm around to brag about my
ancient '76's tambour at that point!
Let's stick with the 25 year rule.
Greg
'76 Tradewind
------------------------------
Message Number: 6
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:36:01 -0500
From: Garnett Horner <garnett@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: Cracks in Fiberglas or plastic end caps help
Blair,
First, I have not done the repairs you mention. I will give you my
thoughts how I would attempt the repairs.
I would first sand the paint away in the area around the crack. I would
get some West System epoxy. Get some mirco-spheres, mirco-balloons, or
some type of filler they sell to make the epoxy very viscous...you want
something thick enough so that it will stay in place while it cures. So,
push this epoxy into the crack and let cure. Next, I would get some
fiberglass cloth and cut some patches that cover the crack area plus
several inches on either side of the crack. Make sure the paint is removed
from the patch area. Now mix the epoxy straight without fillers. Soak the
fliberglass cloth in the epoxy. You will need to figure out an ingenious
way to hold the cloth in place while it cure. You could cover the wet
cloth with wax paper and use a spong held by tape against the wax paper,
for example. After curing the cloth can be sanded smooth and re-painted.
Hope this helps.
Garnett
60 Caravanner
WDCU, OBX Rally, Aug. 15-18
At 10:47 PM 4/12/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>My end caps are experiencing some cracks so far not to bad but two have
>started and are about 3-4 inches long.
>
>Is there a fix? to stop the crack? To fill the crack after it's fixed?
>?????
>
>
>Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
>
>Blair
>
>5395
>64 25' Tradewind Twin
>91 34' Limited
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
>http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
>
>When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 7
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 08:49:53 -0500
From: "Don Hardman" <donhardman@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: 25 year rule - One Man's Opinion
Terry and others have you passed on your thoughts to President Vogt as he
suggested in the article. I did but did not receive a response. My concern
is that although there is obvious objection to this possible change in the
rules, the decision may be made by a few people without any real input from
other Vintage and non-Vintage Airstream owners. That would be a shame.
Don Hardman
Currently Vintage 1976 Sovereign
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Tyler" <tylerbears@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 10:36 AM
Subject: [VAC] 25 year rule - One Man's Opinion
> From: Terry Tyler, WBCCI 6477 & VAC
> To: VACList, VAC Elected Officers 2001-2002
> Subj: 25 Year Rule - One Man's Opinion
>
> Hi Fellow Vintage Airstreamers,
>
> The latest VAC newsletter contains a President's Message asking for
> discussion about changing the qualifications for vintage status.
Currently,
> the rule is once an Airstream is 25 years old, it's a Vintage Airstream.
>
> According to President Vogt, consideration is being given to setting
cutoff
> dates to qualify as Vintage (1968 or 19??) and establishing
classifications
> of Vintage, such as 1930's, 1940's, etc. for membership grouping.
>
> Do I have anything to say about this idea? Yes, I do. Is it based on
facts?
> No, it's my opinion and here it is - as plainly as I can say it.
>
> Arbitrarily classifying and dividing Airstream owners into groups on the
> basis of the decade in which their Airstream was manufactured seems
arrogant
> and invasive. Plus, will those of us with multiple Airstreams be assigned
to
> multiple groups? I believe owners are fully capable of figuring out which
> members they will consult in their search for knowledge as well as which
> friendships they will form for specific group activities.
>
> My suggestion is to stay with the crisp and clean 25 year rule. Allow each
> of us to share the joy of restoring and using our wonderful old vintage
> vehicles without being artificially grouped on the basis of the decade our
> Airstreams were manufactured.
>
> I have a second thought. It begins with a question. When will mistakes of
> the past be recognized in the present and avoided in the future?
>
> In past years, leaders of WBCCI chose to exclude owners and first time
> buyers from the organization when they purchased newly manufactured Argosy
> and square shaped Airstreams, even though these RVs were bonafide
Airstream
> products.
>
> At the time, it appeared to me our WBCCI leaders had a strong need to
> "divide and conquer" so they could maintain total control of the Club.
Their
> influence prevailed and as a result, owners of these new products were
> effectively locked out of access to leadership roles in WBCCI. Simply put,
> they were "excluded" from WBCCI, yet ironically, were " included" in all
> Airstream Company events. Divisiveness was at an all time high during
those
> painful years.
>
> Later, when WBCCI leaders recognized consistent dwindling membership
figures
> and a continuing loss of money to meet organizational expenses, they
changed
> the bylaws and suddenly, the rule of exclusion became the rule of
inclusion.
> They began searching for owners of these Airstream products and
encouraging
> them to join (and pay dues).
>
> A few who hadn't been totally alienated by past practices did join. It has
> been only recently that NEW owners of OLD Argosys and OLD square shaped
> Airstreams are beginning to join the WBCCI family. What these new owners
> recognize that past leaders did not, is their Airstreams are an integral
and
> genuine part of Airstream cultural history. Owning an Airstream product is
> owning the most recognized RV icon name in the world.
>
> They also recognize that within VAC there is equality among owners of all
> models and all years of Airstream products. I believe we need to confirm
> this is still the case within VAC. I believe it would be counter
productive
> and dead wrong to even hint that VAC leaders might consider returning to
the
> old days of sorting out owners on the basis of which Airstream they owned.
>
> Now, fast forward to the last 10 years. When the fledgling Vintage
Airstream
> Club came on the scene, they showed uncanny foresight by providing a
direct
> pathway for including ALL NON-WBCCI owners of ANY VINTAGE Airstream
> product.
>
> First, they established a "Friends" route for joining, then developed a
free
> and comprehensive website which included the most complete archive in the
> world on the topic of Airstreaming. Next, they created a knowledgeable
email
> discussion group which accepted everyone and anyone with an interest in
> Airstreams. This was a VAC recruiting coup of major/massive proportions
that
> occurred independently of WBCCI leadership.
>
> For these and other reasons, hundreds of new owners chose to become
> "Friends" of the Vintage Airstream Club. The ground swell of interest and
> eventual involvement quickly expanded our membership to over1,000.
>
> It's common knowledge that enthusiasm among owners of Vintage Airstreams
is
> high at VAC meetings, during VAC rallies and on VAC caravans. With each
> successive year, VAC's growth and development surpasses the previous year.
> On top of that, the Vintage Advantage news magazine has become a quality
> professional publication with worldwide circulation, recognition and
> respect. I believe a good share of the intense loyalty toward VAC is due
to
> us being united as one group, one family of owners.
>
> Hopefully, this phenomena has not been lost on current WBCCI leaders.
> There's general awareness among VAC members that it's essential for WBCCI
> leaders to demonstrate vision, desire and genuine intitiative if they are
> going to make WBCCI a better organization.
>
> In just a decade, VAC efforts have proven we can attract quality people
such
> as younger folks and families. Not only does this raise the value of being
a
> member in VAC, it enhances the membership base of WBCCI. This is essential
> for continued growth and for fostering a vibrantly active, energetic
group.
> Only time will show what or if current WBCCI leaders will learn from this.
>
> Another insightful decision by VAC was the establishment of a brand new
> WBCCI Unit designed to specifically represent vintage Airstream owners, to
> include members from all states in the Union (and including Canada and
> Mexico) and to be supportive of WBCCI. The federal district of the United
> States was selected to symbolize VAC's goal of inclusiveness. Growth of
the
> Washington DC Unit continues to exceed any other unit within WBCCI. VAC
> meetings are lively and well attended. Their unique rallies occur
throughout
> the country.
>
> It's now the year 2002 and unfortunately, we're seeing the start of
internal
> discussion designed to divide VAC membership into discrete groups, one of
> which would be based on the year their Airstream was manufactured. To me,
> that flies in the face of what we learned from the past. When will
mistakes
> of the past be recognized in the present and avoided in the future?
>
> In my opinion, we don't need another generation of owners who feel
exclusive
> at the expense of those being excluded. The slightest hint that divisive
> mistakes of past years are about occur again, but this time, within the
> Vintage Airstream Club organization could stifly VAC's momentum. That does
> not make any sense to me. We need to resist that type of thinking, no
> matter how insignificant it may seem to those who are promoting it.
>
> Ten years ago, a group of Airstreamers created this club. They wisely
chose
> a fully inclusive path for all members. The current VAC leadership should
> stay with that crisp and clean 25 year rule. The original thinking of our
> founders must be resoundingly confirmed.
>
> Some will disagree with me and pick at parts of what I've written. That's
> the price of freedom in America. Bring it on and let's hash it out. This
is
> our club and our rules. We need to make sure the rules are right for us.
>
> Terry Tyler #6477
>
> mailto:tylerbears@xxxxxxxxxx.net
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
> http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
>
> When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 8
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 07:21:03 -0700
From: "Roger Hightower" <n7kt@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Vintage or not?
Hi Noland,
I've been doing some foot-dragging, mulling over the question you posed in
the VA about which units should qualify as Vintage.
I am opposed to any change in the current rule. If a trailer has survived
to the age of 25, then it should be considered Vintage.
If a "cut-off" date was established, it wouldn't be too long before there
was no Vintage club, and then someone would have to start over.
What about this?:
You have to be age 18 to vote in National elections. Change that to "You
have to be born before 1984 to vote." It wouldn't be long before there
would be a revolution.
You have to be 16 years old to drive (in most states). Change that to "You
have to be born before 1986 to drive." That wouldn't work at all.
Cut-off dates don't work. Please don't even consider using one.
Sincerely,
Roger
Roger Hightower, N7KT
WBCCI 4165, VAC, TCT
1975 31' Sovereign, '02 F-250 PSD
Mesa, AZ
mailto:n7kt@xxxxxxxxxx.net
------------------------------
Message Number: 9
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:14:14 -0400
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: vintage rules
When responding to the question that our president, Noland Vogt posed
about changing the current 25 year rule, please, PLEASE, respond to the
address that he gave in the article ( vogt@xxxxxxxxxx.net ). This is the
BEST way to make sure your voice is heard. To the best of my knowledge
neither Noland, or most of the rest of the board subscribe to this list.
If you just post your oninion here, then you may be wasting your time.
The NEXT BEST way to be sure your voice is heard is to make plans to
attend the International Rally and the board meetings.
Monitor Scott
------------------------------
Message Number: 10
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:39:41 EDT
From: Inlandrv@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: 25 year rule - One Man's Opinion
Don. Cut off dates for many things are fine, but I don't think a trailers age
should have anything to do with being in or out. If the requirement is 25 or
30 years, and then it becomes "vintage," then that should remain.
But, for sake of comparison, why don't we say, "When you become 65, you can
draw Social Security, BUT, If you were born after 1936, you will NEVER be
eligible.
I believe we should stay with the original rule, as it also gives incentive's
to owners that are approaching the "magic" time.
As the old saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." But if the select
few wish to tinker with it, "they quite well may discover a way to break it
!!!!!"
Since the yearly decline has been very obvious in the WBCCI, we should look
for ways to improve it, and not tinker with ways to further reduce it's
membership.
If the younger generation is not given adequate reason to join the club, and
if some of the older members insist on keeping it as an old folks club, then
before long, NO CLUB.
HOW SAD.
Wally, don't give up on us yet. The fog will eventually clear.
Andy
------------------------------
Message Number: 11
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:59:03 -0400
From: Greg Hankins <ghankins@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: Discrimination
>Concerning discrimination against older RV's by private RV parks:
>
I publish a newspaper that serves a couple of gated communities. As is the
case with most such places, there are rules about everything from the
minimum number of square feet your house must contain to not hanging beach
towels out on your deck to dry in the sun. You can't park a commercial
vehicle in your driveway -- or an RV, for more than 2 days.
I love these communities and hope to see them prosper -- they are the
source of my livelihood. I understand that the rules and regs are a source
of comfort for those who buy property within the gates.
I, on the other hand, could never live in such a place, preferring a few
country acres on which I can raise chickens and stack salvaged lumber
behind the barn, balancing that freedom against the possibility that my
neighbor will decide to getinto the ostrich business and build a 12-foot
high chain link fence around his 20 acres.
I think of restricted RV parks along the same lines. There are some people
who would be driven crazy if I pulled my very nice but yet to be polished
'76 Tradewind into the slot beside their $200,000 motohome. Those folks
should camp in restricted parks and leave more room in the great state,
federal, and other campgrounds for those of us who are more open to
celebrating the diversity of human existence.
Tom, If I were you I'd check out the public parks first. I seriously doubt
the variability in accommodations is any greater than among private parks
-- and you can always ask the list before you go!
Greg
______________________________________________________________
Greg Hankins Happy Hank's Honey House
ghankins@xxxxxxxxxx.net Mt. Gilead, North Carolina
------------------------------
Message Number: 12
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:50:06 -0500
From: "Don Hardman" <donhardman@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: vintage rules
Scott, since a large number of us cannot attend the International Rally
for various reasons, maybe someone will volunteer to voice our opinions
that is attending the rally. Maybe a simple poll of the VAC list, yea or
nea to the 25 year rule being changes could be reported at the meeting.
It might not change what happens but at least we could have a voice at
the meeting. I did respond to the e-mail address for Mr. Vogt as well.
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Scheuermann=20
To: Multiple recipients of VACList=20
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 10:14 AM
Subject: [VAC] vintage rules
When responding to the question that our president, Noland Vogt posed
about changing the current 25 year rule, please, PLEASE, respond to the
address that he gave in the article ( vogt@xxxxxxxxxx.net ). This is the
BEST way to make sure your voice is heard. To the best of my knowledge
neither Noland, or most of the rest of the board subscribe to this list.
If you just post your oninion here, then you may be wasting your time.
The NEXT BEST way to be sure your voice is heard is to make plans to
attend the International Rally and the board meetings.
Monitor Scott
------------------------------
Message Number: 13
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:18:44 -0700
From: "Roger Hightower" <n7kt@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: vintage rules
Just to clarify this, I sent my e-mail TO Noland, Copy to the VAC list. It
just didn't show that on the address line of the posting.
Can someone please tell me why the officers and Board don't subscribe to the
List? It's not like anyone is flooded with postings, and those folk would
sure get a good handle on what is happening.
Roger
Roger Hightower, N7KT
WBCCI 4165, VAC, TCT
1975 31' Sovereign, '02 F-250 PSD
Mesa, AZ
mailto:n7kt@xxxxxxxxxx.net
------------------------------
Message Number: 14
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:01:14 -0400
From: Jerry Jarrell <jdjarrell@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: electrical short
Hey all,
I have found that the side of the Overlander will shock you if you touch it
and are grounded! Yes dangerous! I changed the receptacle for the incoming 110ac
(a used one from an old trailer) and apparently I didn't do it right. I found
two red wires going into the fuses. Also, there was a blue wire that was the
grounded to a rivet beside the receptacle. I don't think I had this problem
until I decided to update the receptacle. I guess it is apparent that I am no
electrician and need some advice. Dr. Gerald and you other electricians ....
...where are you????
Jerry
57 Overlander
------------------------------
Message Number: 15
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:22:53 -0500
From: "Jeff Griffin" <mrfurious007@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: electrical short
<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>Jerry:</P>
<P>Don't be so hasty. Sounds like you stumbled upon a great securty system. Speaking as someone who has had a beloved AS vandalized...I may be intrested in doing some amateur "rewiring" ;-)</P>
<P>Jeff.<BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: Jerry Jarrell <JDJARRELL@xxxxxxxxxx.NET>
<DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net
<DIV></DIV>>To: Multiple recipients of VACList <VACLIST@xxxxxxxxxx.NET>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: [VAC] electrical short
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:01:14 -0400
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Hey all,
<DIV></DIV>> I have found that the side of the Overlander will shock you if you touch it
<DIV></DIV>>and are grounded! Yes dangerous! I changed the receptacle for the incoming 110ac
<DIV></DIV>>(a used one from an old trailer) and apparently I didn't do it right. I found
<DIV></DIV>>two red wires going into the fuses. Also, there was a blue wire that was the
<DIV></DIV>>grounded to a rivet beside the receptacle. I don't think I had this problem
<DIV></DIV>>until I decided to update the receptacle. I guess it is apparent that I am no
<DIV></DIV>>electrician and need some advice. Dr. Gerald and you other electricians ....
<DIV></DIV>>...where are you????
<DIV></DIV>>Jerry
<DIV></DIV>>57 Overlander
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>To unsubscribe or change to a daily Digest format, please go to
<DIV></DIV>>http://airstream.net/vaclist/listoffice.html
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary original text
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: <a href='http://g.msn.com/1HM505401/15'>Click Here</a><br></html>
------------------------------
Message Number: 16
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:35:17 EDT
From: Inlandrv@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: electrical short
Jerry. You reversed the hot and common wires. The blue wire, probably a faded
green, goes to the ground, ONLY. Andy
------------------------------
Message Number: 17
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:34:18 -0400
From: "James Greene" <drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: Vintage or not?
Good points and good examples also, Roger.
Thanks for posting them.
Jim Greene (vintage)
' 68 Tradewind
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Hightower" <n7kt@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 10:21
Subject: [VAC] Vintage or not?
> Hi Noland,
>
> I've been doing some foot-dragging, mulling over the question you posed in
> the VA about which units should qualify as Vintage.
>
> I am opposed to any change in the current rule. If a trailer has survived
> to the age of 25, then it should be considered Vintage.
>
> If a "cut-off" date was established, it wouldn't be too long before there
> was no Vintage club, and then someone would have to start over.
>
> What about this?:
>
> You have to be age 18 to vote in National elections. Change that to "You
> have to be born before 1984 to vote." It wouldn't be long before there
> would be a revolution.
>
> You have to be 16 years old to drive (in most states). Change that to
"You
> have to be born before 1986 to drive." That wouldn't work at all.
>
> Cut-off dates don't work. Please don't even consider using one.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Roger
------------------------------
Message Number: 18
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:06:24 -0500
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: electrical short
Maybe, just maybe, you can swap the two red wires at the incoming. Be
very certain that the "blue" wire that goes to the shell is connected to
the grounded pin in that incoming receptacle. Check for voltage from the
shell to ground with a light bulb or meter, its a less shocking
experience. Probably you have neutral and hot swapped, and neutral is
probably connected to the shell in the "main" box in the trailer. That
jumper probably should be out just for such occasions. Though it is
possible that somewhere in the trailer assembly a screw has been driven
through a wire to cause the problem. Its something that a competent
electrician can find and fix, but its difficult to tell from a distance
what is wrong.
As for leaving that way as an anti vandalism scheme, Iowa law frowns on
setting such traps and tends to incarcerate those who set the traps, no
matter how much destruction the vandals and thieves might have done.
Gerald J.
--
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson. Reproduction by
permission only.
------------------------------
Message Number: 19
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:30:12 -0500
From: "gina terrell" <terrellgina@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: vintage rules
lets all email him too I did
Gina
>From: "Don Hardman" <donhardman@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
>Reply-To: VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net
>To: Multiple recipients of VACList <VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
>Subject: [VAC] Re: vintage rules
>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 11:50:06 -0500
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>
>Scott, since a large number of us cannot attend the International Rally for
>various reasons, maybe someone will volunteer to voice our opinions that is
>attending the rally. Maybe a simple poll of the VAC list, yea or nea to the
>25 year rule being changes could be reported at the meeting. It might not
>change what happens but at least we could have a voice at the meeting. I
>did respond to the e-mail address for Mr. Vogt as well.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Scott Scheuermann
> To: Multiple recipients of VACList
> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 10:14 AM
> Subject: [VAC] vintage rules
>
>
> When responding to the question that our president, Noland Vogt posed
>about changing the current 25 year rule, please, PLEASE, respond to the
>address that he gave in the article ( vogt@xxxxxxxxxx.net ). This is the
>BEST way to make sure your voice is heard. To the best of my knowledge
>neither Noland, or most of the rest of the board subscribe to this list. If
>you just post your oninion here, then you may be wasting your time. The
>NEXT BEST way to be sure your voice is heard is to make plans to attend the
>International Rally and the board meetings.
>
> Monitor Scott
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
------------------------------
Message Number: 20
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:51:41 -0700
From: "My Airstream" <myairstream@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: 66 Trade Wind
I am going to be removing the original air conditioner from my 66 Safari.
Anybody want it?
Bob
------------------------------
Message Number: 21
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:55:52 -0700
From: "My Airstream" <myairstream@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: Shower & Water Heater
Look under the sink above the tub for an access hole.
Bob
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Tombhs@xxxxxxxxxx.com=20
To: Multiple recipients of VACList=20
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 6:40 PM
Subject: [VAC] Shower & Water Heater
Still trying to take my AS on its first trip....more problems. Anyone
know how to reach to copper tubing that goes from the on/off valvues in
the shower unit to the outlet for the shower wand.
------------------------------
Message Number: 22
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:10:19 -0700
From: "My Airstream" <myairstream@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: Discrimination
I live in one of those prissy parks that regulate every detail. Some of you
will recall a couple of years ago when I really worked to spit and polish my
66 Safari before presenting it to the park manager. Now I'm in and well
accepted. My coach is the cutest in the park and yet the manager says she
will never accept another Airstream. (Skirting issues).
I'd love to have more space and freedom to go to Airstream events, but I
can't beat the location or the price and the park frowns on moving the
units.
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Hankins" <ghankins@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: "Multiple recipients of VACList" <VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 7:59 AM
Subject: [VAC] Re: Discrimination
> >Concerning discrimination against older RV's by private RV parks:
> >
> I publish a newspaper that serves a couple of gated communities. As is the
> case with most such places, there are rules about everything from the
> minimum number of square feet your house must contain to not hanging beach
> towels out on your deck to dry in the sun. You can't park a commercial
> vehicle in your driveway -- or an RV, for more than 2 days.
>
>
------------------------------
Message Number: 23
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:26:10 -0700
From: "My Airstream" <myairstream@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: electrical short
I came back from my Mexico vacation and opened up my Airstream (which stayed
home:(
I found the water pump switch on, but not pumping. The tank was empty
because thats the way I keep it.
Bottom line is that there is no 12 volt power to the front of the coach.
Fans and water pump don't work.
Bullet lights, less than a foot away from fans work. Checked fuses and all
appear solid. Could the line have just broke or is there a short?
Bob
66 Safari
------------------------------
Message Number: 24
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:49:48 -0700
From: "My Airstream" <myairstream@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: Time Mag Airstream Photo
Jimmy Buffett's sudden infatuation with Airstream trailers is a complete
reversal from the lyrical ending in his song "Son of a Son of a Sailor".
His last words in that song were "The seas in my veins. The tradition
remains. I'm just glad I don't live in a trailer." Guess as he ages,
he's changed his tune (lyrics:).
BTW I am so tired of hearing the media casually use the words "trailer
trash". It happens all the time in dramatic and comedy series. Such
generalizations counter the good press that our Airstreams get in ads
and other media.
Bob
------------------------------
Message Number: 25
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:58:25 -0500
From: "Kevin D. Allen" <kallen@xxxxxxxxxx.k12.il.us>
Subject: Re: Proposed Change for Vintage Airstream Club Eligibility
Greetings Noland!
I have been following the debate (on the VAC List) regarding changes to
the rules making a particular Airstream product eligible for inclusion
in the club. I became involved with the club in a slightly different
manner from many of the more recent members. In 1995, I joined the
WBCCI after having purchased my 1964 Overlander and then learned of the
Vintage Airstream Club. (I had been searching for an Airstream product
simply because I wanted to join the WBCCI.)
I can see a few possible reasons why such a change might be considered:
1. An effort to keep our intra-club membership numbers at a
manageable level.
2. An effort to keep from over-shadowing our parent-club.
3. An effort to set the foundation for creation of several, related
intra-clubs that might be less
threatening to the parent-club:
A. Antiques - - 50 or more years of age
B. Classics - - 40 - 50 years of age
C. Special Interest - - 25 - 40 years of age
I can also see several detrimental aspects to such a change including:
1. A diminution of the "sense of inclusion" that has been a
foundation of the Vintage Airstream Club
for as long as I have been a member.
2. A very definite risk of fragmentation of the current Vintage
Airstream Club that might seriously
jeopardize the future health of the organization.
3. A very definite risk of creating the perception of an "elitist
philosophy".
4. The potential of creating "cliques" within the club that could
ultimately undermine the club's
existence.
I believe that this may be a case where our intra-club should learn from
the parent-club's example. Evidently our parent club learned from hard
experience that excluding segments of the ownership base (Argosy
products, Integrity products, and the "square-streams") can have an
overall detrimental impact on the club as a whole. When I was searching
for my trailer, I was actually looking for an Argosy. It had never
occurred to me that there might have been a time when an Argosy owner
would have been excluded from WBCCI membership. I have always assumed
that the inclusionary 25-year rule was one of the founding tenets of the
organization, and was one of the reasons for our intra-club's great
success and growth. With our parent club beginning the process of
reaching-out to the broader ownership base, I am not convinced that this
would be a good time to consider a move that would potentially diminish
the effectiveness and scope of our organization.
One of the reasons that I have always happily mailed in my dues is the
fact that our organization has made such an effort to include all
eligible owners. I will admit to feeling a little out-of-place at my
first two Internationals where my trailer was one of a relatively small
number of the larger tandem axle units; and especially my first
International (Boise) where (for just reason I learned later) my rig was
excluded from the Wagon Wheels Caravan simply because it was more than
24'. The most recent two Internationals have had an exceptionally
welcoming atmosphere for all qualified Vintage Airstream products. I
would truly hate to see this change, which I see, in a sense, as a step
backward - - not so much in our intra-club's history - - rather in our
parent club's history - - possibly mimicking a rule that obviously
didn't work for the parent organization.
Kevin D. Allen
WBCCI/VAC #6359
1964 Overlander International/1999 GMC K2500 Suburban
------------------------------
Message Number: 26
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 16:42:26 -0400
From: "Thomas LaVergne" <tlavergne@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: vintage rules
I e-mailed Mr. Vogt today.
Thomas
------------------------------
Message Number: 27
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:23:04 -0700
From: RJ.Dial@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: FW: 25 year rule
(Noland Vogt-VAC President, just sent this to the VACList, but since he
isn't a subscriber I bet the server kicked it back, therefore I'm
forwarding it)
RJ-VAC Webmaster
-----Original Message-----
From: NOLAND@xxxxxxxxxx.net [mailto:NOLAND@xxxxxxxxxx.net]
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 3:08 PM
To: VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net; Dial, RJ /oakeg;
Subject: 25 year rule
Hi Fellow Airstreamers,
In the last issue of the Vintage Advantage, in the President's
Message, I raised a question at the request of a VAC member. I
asked for membership feedback. The question is now known
affectionally as "the 25 year rule". Within the subject of
qualification as a Vintage Airstream were many options,
including "leave it be at 25 years old or older".
I have received a multitude of e-mails with your inputs; all the
way from: "leave it be, I like it the way it is", to 4 to 5 page
diatribes exalting, with great fervor, all the reasons why a
change is unnecessary and undesirable, and also the mere
suggestion of a discussion on the subject was detrimental to the
Vintage club.
Almost 100% of the e-mails received have said in one way or
another: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" The founders of the
Vintage Club did a great job in the formation of this club. It
has grown and gained respect and stature almost beyond their
dreams. They adopted the 25 year rule.
In defense of posing this question to the membership, I suggest
that "preventative maintenance" is often prudent. If I hear a
scraping noise in a brake drum, I stop and see what, if anything,
can be done to prevent something worse from happening. I heard
the "noise" on the 25 year rule and now found out what to do:
LEAVE IT BE! I also want to say to some of the respondents: don't
be afraid to look at and discuss "change". With this current
effort we have reafirmed the basis of the club.
I feel that the single most important thing to come out of the
exercise is this: The Vintage Airstream Club is an organization
of PEOPLE, not just machines. PEOPLE with common interests,
desires,and goals; PEOPLE who are passionate about the Vintage
Airstream Club; PEOPLE who really don't judge another member by
the model of Airstream they have, but by the enthusiasm for the
Airstream lifestyle and Airstream products.
Thank you all for your responses.
Noland Vogt #447
VAC President
'74 Argosy 20' MH
'75 A/S Ambassador
------------------------------
Message Number: 28
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:28:11 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Karl F. Larsen" <k5di@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: Shower & Water Heater
If yours is a rear bathroom 23' 76 model it can be easily reached from the
storage area below the sink.
On Mon, 15 Apr 2002, My Airstream wrote:
> Look under the sink above the tub for an access hole.
> Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tombhs@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> To: Multiple recipients of VACList
> Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 6:40 PM
> Subject: [VAC] Shower & Water Heater
>
>
> Still trying to take my AS on its first trip....more problems. Anyone know how to reach to copper tubing that goes from the on/off valvues in the shower unit to the outlet for the shower wand.
>
--
Yours Truly,
- Karl F. Larsen, k5di@xxxxxxxxxx.net (505) 524-3303 -
http://www.zianet.com/k5di/
------------------------------
Message Number: 29
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:30:53 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Karl F. Larsen" <k5di@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Strange advice
I was told today by e-mail to NEVER use Rolite AP-300 on my
trailer. I have a 1 pound container of this stuff and it's recommended by
many people. Who can we believe?
--
Yours Truly,
- Karl F. Larsen, k5di@xxxxxxxxxx.net (505) 524-3303 -
http://www.zianet.com/k5di/
------------------------------
Message Number: 30
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 17:15:50 -0500
From: "Don Hardman" <donhardman@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: FW: 25 year rule
----- Original Message -----
From: <RJ.Dial@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> (Noland Vogt-VAC President, just sent this to the
I heard the "noise" on the 25 year rule and now found out what to do:
> LEAVE IT BE
I am glad to hear this and I think it is the right decision.
Don Hardman
1976 31" Sovereign (Still Vintage)
------------------------------
End of VACList-Digest #274
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