The Vintage Airstream E-mail ListDigest Archive Files
VAL Digest V2 #83
VAL Digest Wednesday, December 1 2004 Volume 02 : Number 083
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Topics in Today's Digest:
[VAL] Re: VAL broken window
[VAL] Replacement chassis
[VAL] Pictures of Patti's Pearl?
[VAL] another window question
RE: [VAL] another window question
[VAL] Trans temps
Re: [VAL] Replacement chassis
RE: [VAL] Trans temps
Re: [VAL] Trans temps
RE: [VAL] Replacement chassis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 05:43:37 -0800
From: RJ Dial <radiodial@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL broken window
The 1969+ curved side windows are still supported by Airstream dealers, but
I don't know what the cost is as of late.
Best of luck,
RJ
VintageAirstream.com
On 11/29/04 10:00 PM, "VAL Digest" <valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com> wrote:
>
> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:31:26 -0800
> From: "Debbie Rogers" <drogers@xxxxxxxxxx.k12.ca.us>
> Subject: [VAL] broken window
>
> Hi all,
>
> I figured this would be where to ask about the best place to buy replacement
> windows for our 1969 Overlander. Unfortunately one of our side (large)
> windows was broken during our Thanksgiving travels. Are glass windows
> available anywhere or just plexiglass? Thanks for your help!
>
>
>
> Debbie and Steve Rogers
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:56:36 -0000
From: "JT Price" <jtprice@xxxxxxxxxx.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: [VAL] Replacement chassis
Dear All,
Thank you very much for your previous response regarding my Argosy Minuet
6.7mtr.
The VIN number is 22D8V1703 Type TR
Date of Manufacture 05/78
GVWR 3800
15" Diameter wheels fitted
The colour of the paint underneath the orange 6.7mtr decal located on the
front-side of the trailer is white, which would suggest from previous
correspondence that this is a later model trailer.
Can you advise whether it is possible to obtain a replacement chassis for this
trailer? If this is not possible, are there any plans available or technical
information which will allow me to construct my own replacement.
Also, can you offer any advise on removing the trailer body from the chassis,
as both the body and the wooden floor are in very good condition.
I look forward to receiving your replies.
As previously advised I am UK based and there appears to be nothing available
within the UK.
Regards,
David Sweetmore.
No virus found in this outgoing message.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:09:26 -0800
From: "MK / JS" <sn2244@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Pictures of Patti's Pearl?
Hi - is there a website that has photos of Patti's precious Pearl? The
awning chat has peaked my curiousity.
thx
Marg
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:06:02 -0500
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: [VAL] another window question
Hi gang.
I've got a question for you all. I am working on a 1973 Tradewind. One of
the front "wrap around" windows leaks. (I think I have that problem solved.)
However I wish to clean up the mess now. It is double paned and the water
would pool for a while between the panes. Is there a way to R&R the window
without breaking anything so that I can clean it out?
Scott
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0800
From: "Judy White" <djmurtha@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: RE: [VAL] another window question
I've got a question for you all. I am working on a 1973 Tradewind. One of
the front "wrap around" windows leaks. (I think I have that problem solved.)
However I wish to clean up the mess now. It is double paned and the water
would pool for a while between the panes. Is there a way to R&R the window
without breaking anything so that I can clean it out?
Scott
[Judy White] I have the Vista View windows on my 1972...The double panes
were leaking and the reflective film had crumbled, so we disassembled and
resealed them (that's another long story). They still sweat a bit, so we
drilled two holes in each inner plexiglass pane. The holes are about 3/4"
in diameter at opposite corners. 3/4" is the diameter of the plug for my
Dad's diabetes test strips container, which is used to seal the holes. When
the window gets sweaty, we pull the plugs on a sunny day and they dry out
quickly. With a skinny flexible hose attached to a vacuum, I can also suck
out the stray bug or two who flit into the warm inner space. You could be
creative with bent wire and small rags to do a bit of inside window washing
also.
Hopefully you have a plexiglass inner pane like I do!
Judy White
72-27 Int'l Ambassador
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:36:56 -0800
From: Stan Nicholson <stan@xxxxxxxxxx.ucsb.edu>
Subject: [VAL] Trans temps
Tom & Ed -
It's great that engineers can use today's electronics to protect
transmissions from complete disaster, but I wouldn't use that as the
first line of defense. Heat kills transmissions by degrading the
trans fluid, and the rate of degradation increases substantially with
relatively small increases in temp. At the moment I can't lay my
hands on a chart that plots the number of miles before you should
change the fluid vs. measured temp, but it's pretty dramatic. IIRC, a
trans that should be able to go 50,000 miles between changes at temps
of 200 degrees should only go 10,000 at 225 degrees, or 500 miles at
250 degrees -- don't hold me to the particular numbers, 'cause I'm
just trying to illustrate how dramatic the relationship is. Of
course, it also makes a difference how much time the trans temps
spend elevated. A momentary spike to 250 degrees is far less
worrisome than an hour spent at 250 degrees (or even than an hour
spent at 225 degrees).
Bottom line - I'd keep an eye on the gauge, and try to keep the
electronic safety measures from ever kicking in. If they ever DID
kick in, things would have gotten so hot that I'd change the fluid at
the first opportunity.
Ed, I believe my tow vehicle ('96 Suburban 454, 4L80E trans) has the
same transmission as your new Suburban. I installed a B&M aluminum
trans pan, and tapped it for a gauge, when I bought it. I also
replaced the factory tow package trans cooler with one twice as big.
So it's been interesting to see that the temp never goes above 200
degrees using the Sub solo, or when towing on the flat, but even
small grades can cause notable rises. It was an uncomfortable
surprise to see that a few miles of 6% grade could produce a reading
of 240 degrees, and to see how long it takes to dissipate that heat
after reaching the crest. Be nice to your tranny, err on the side of
caution in your fluid change intervals, and it'll take care of you
for a very long time. At least until GM has the sense to overhaul the
Suburban chassis to permit the Allison 1000 to fit.
Stan
'72 Overlander
- - -----Original Message-----
... this new truck of mine (04 3/4, 8.1 Suburban) has a temp gauge
and I would like to know when to start worrying about the temp of the
trans when pulling.
- - ---------------------------
Ed,
From what I have read, your truck will protect itself from overheating due
to towing. It works like this: If the transmission oil gets hot, your
status message indicator will flash a message to the effect "Trans hot;
reduce speed". If you ignore the message, and keep the petal to the metal,
another more ominous message will appear. If you ignore THAT one, the
engine's computer will take matters into it's own hands and quit firing all
eight spark plugs in sequence until the load on the transmission is reduced.
At least that's what I read that applies to my '99 Silverado 2500.
Tom
'67 Overlander
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 15:56:25 -0700
From: Charlie/Betty Burke <cbburke@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Replacement chassis
As the serial number indicates Airstream considered your coach a 1978
model (4th digit) however the build date is right at the model
changeover and they may have simply run out of the old scheme paint and
started using the new scheme. It's happened before and since.
The frame under your coach, and most of ours, is a conventional ladder
frame with an A front end. Don't know what European manufacturers put
under their caravan's but I would wager the basics would not be unheard
of to a chassis builder in the UK. Likely the Argosy frame is heavier
rated. Thicker steel and larger framed.
Doing a frame off is a major deal. Bud Cooper was one of the first to
document such a project but several have done it as well. The ladder
frame has a series of outriggers welded along each side. With in the
body are several pieces of floor rail. This rail encircles nearly the
entire perimeter of the coach with two large bowed pieces one on each
end. Several straight pieces alone the side complete the rail. This rail
is an aluminum extrusion that has a key slot for the floor decking and
vertical extensions that the outside and inside skin are riveted to.
During assembly the chassis is built up with the flooring and the floor
rail is mounted and anchored at each outrigger and to the ladder frame
crossovers both front and rear. Once the outer shell is mounted to the
frame rail interior build up begins. After insulation, wiring, windows
etc. are added the interior skin is attached to the floor rail
effectively sealing the anchor points away from easy access.
In order to separate body and ladder frame it is necessary to access
each anchor point and separate it. This will require clear access to the
wall to floor joints. Removal of much of the interior is necessary to do
this. Once separated it is possible to then lift the body off the
floor/chassis. Don't forget the toilet is also anchored through the
floor to a tank below.
Charlie
PS It's a whole lot easier to describe than do!
JT Price wrote:
>Dear All,
>
>Thank you very much for your previous response regarding my Argosy Minuet
>6.7mtr.
>
>The VIN number is 22D8V1703 Type TR
>Date of Manufacture 05/78
>GVWR 3800
>15" Diameter wheels fitted
>
>The colour of the paint underneath the orange 6.7mtr decal located on the
>front-side of the trailer is white, which would suggest from previous
>correspondence that this is a later model trailer.
>
>Can you advise whether it is possible to obtain a replacement chassis for this
>trailer? If this is not possible, are there any plans available or technical
>information which will allow me to construct my own replacement.
>
>Also, can you offer any advise on removing the trailer body from the chassis,
>as both the body and the wooden floor are in very good condition.
>
>I look forward to receiving your replies.
>
>As previously advised I am UK based and there appears to be nothing available
>within the UK.
>
>Regards,
>
>David Sweetmore.
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.2 - Release Date: 24/11/04
>
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>When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 18:20:21 -0500
From: "eemerick" <eemerick@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Trans temps
Hello,
I have not had it up above 210 at any time yet, and then it was only
after I entered a State Park with a good pull to the dump station and
then it only reached 200. When I'm not pulling it runs 110 to 120,
normal pulling it will get to 150 and hold there. If I got to 240 I
would freak, I think! And Stan is right when it gets to 200 it takes
forever to drop. I plan on changing the fluid every 30,000 or so to stay
ahead of the game. After replacing 2 trans in two different Suburban
over the years (one in a very cool place in ND, but that is another
story) I don't want to go through that again. The factory gauge does not
have a Red Line on it and I'm wondering when do I take my foot out of
it, at 200, 210, 240? Does melt-down start at 200 or 250?
Thanks again
Ed
WBCCI/VAC 4425
68 Sovereign
59 Traveler
- -----Original Message-----
From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com
[mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com] On Behalf Of Stan Nicholson
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 4:37 PM
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Trans temps
Tom & Ed -
It's great that engineers can use today's electronics to protect
transmissions from complete disaster, but I wouldn't use that as the
first line of defense. Heat kills transmissions by degrading the
trans fluid, and the rate of degradation increases substantially with
relatively small increases in temp. At the moment I can't lay my
hands on a chart that plots the number of miles before you should
change the fluid vs. measured temp, but it's pretty dramatic. IIRC, a
trans that should be able to go 50,000 miles between changes at temps
of 200 degrees should only go 10,000 at 225 degrees, or 500 miles at
250 degrees -- don't hold me to the particular numbers, 'cause I'm
just trying to illustrate how dramatic the relationship is. Of
course, it also makes a difference how much time the trans temps
spend elevated. A momentary spike to 250 degrees is far less
worrisome than an hour spent at 250 degrees (or even than an hour
spent at 225 degrees).
Bottom line - I'd keep an eye on the gauge, and try to keep the
electronic safety measures from ever kicking in. If they ever DID
kick in, things would have gotten so hot that I'd change the fluid at
the first opportunity.
Ed, I believe my tow vehicle ('96 Suburban 454, 4L80E trans) has the
same transmission as your new Suburban. I installed a B&M aluminum
trans pan, and tapped it for a gauge, when I bought it. I also
replaced the factory tow package trans cooler with one twice as big.
So it's been interesting to see that the temp never goes above 200
degrees using the Sub solo, or when towing on the flat, but even
small grades can cause notable rises. It was an uncomfortable
surprise to see that a few miles of 6% grade could produce a reading
of 240 degrees, and to see how long it takes to dissipate that heat
after reaching the crest. Be nice to your tranny, err on the side of
caution in your fluid change intervals, and it'll take care of you
for a very long time. At least until GM has the sense to overhaul the
Suburban chassis to permit the Allison 1000 to fit.
Stan
'72 Overlander
- - -----Original Message-----
... this new truck of mine (04 3/4, 8.1 Suburban) has a temp gauge and I
would like to know when to start worrying about the temp of the trans
when pulling.
- - ---------------------------
Ed,
From what I have read, your truck will protect itself from overheating
due to towing. It works like this: If the transmission oil gets hot,
your status message indicator will flash a message to the effect "Trans
hot; reduce speed". If you ignore the message, and keep the petal to
the metal, another more ominous message will appear. If you ignore THAT
one, the engine's computer will take matters into it's own hands and
quit firing all eight spark plugs in sequence until the load on the
transmission is reduced.
At least that's what I read that applies to my '99 Silverado 2500.
Tom
'67 Overlander
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 20:12:33 -0800
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Trans temps
All:
If temp and duration of temperature is as critical as you say (and I
don't doubt it), one be better served with a factual readout - a
high/low thermometer sort of thing plus some fix on time duration. Is
there such a thing? Without this, a temp gauge is quite limited in what
useful information it actually conveys - unless one drives with one eye
on the gauge and one on the road so some idea of how long the high temp
persists. ? A small "computer" could do that but is one available. I
just got my trans fluid changed on general principles and because of
reading this thread. First time I have ever done this with a vehicle
but then, I've never towed much other than a small boat and trailer.
Jo Ann
On Nov 2004, at 1:36 PM, Stan Nicholson wrote:
> Tom & Ed -
> It's great that engineers can use today's electronics to protect
> transmissions from complete disaster, but I wouldn't use that as the
> first line of defense. Heat kills transmissions by degrading the
> trans fluid, and the rate of degradation increases substantially with
> relatively small increases in temp.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:58:54 -0500
From: "S. W. Sandy" <swsandy@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Replacement chassis
JT, You might try to touch base with Anthony Slocock. He's a fellow
Countryman of yours. He has an A/S with a custom built chassis (made in
England) being outfitted and finished about twenty miles from my home in
Pilesgrove, NJ USA. Here's his e- mail address. Tell him Walt sent you.
anthony@xxxxxxxxxx.co.uk
Sanderson W. Sandy
Pilesgrove, NJ
WBCCI # 4159
VAC & Delaware Valley NJ Unit
1970 27' Overlander
1960 17" Pacer
'99 Ford F250 V10
'99 Ford Expedition 5.4 V8
Region 2 VAC Representative
E- Mail: swsandy@xxxxxxxxxx.com
- -----Original Message-----
From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com [mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
On Behalf Of JT Price
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 11:57 AM
To: Valist
Subject: [VAL] Replacement chassis
Dear All,
Thank you very much for your previous response regarding my Argosy Minuet
6.7mtr.
The VIN number is 22D8V1703 Type TR
Date of Manufacture 05/78
GVWR 3800
15" Diameter wheels fitted
The colour of the paint underneath the orange 6.7mtr decal located on the
front-side of the trailer is white, which would suggest from previous
correspondence that this is a later model trailer.
Can you advise whether it is possible to obtain a replacement chassis for
this
trailer? If this is not possible, are there any plans available or technical
information which will allow me to construct my own replacement.
Also, can you offer any advise on removing the trailer body from the
chassis,
as both the body and the wooden floor are in very good condition.
I look forward to receiving your replies.
As previously advised I am UK based and there appears to be nothing
available
within the UK.
Regards,
David Sweetmore.
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.2 - Release Date: 24/11/04
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
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------------------------------
End of VAL Digest V2 #83
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