The Vintage Airstream E-mail ListDigest Archive Files
VAL Digest V2 #51
VAL Digest Saturday, October 30 2004 Volume 02 : Number 051
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Topics in Today's Digest:
[VAL] Fwd: (no subject)
Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
Re: [VAL] Fwd: (no subject)
[VAL] Gas Mileage
[VAL] Re: Tie down connections.
Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
[VAL] Ping - Patti R
[VAL] PING - Terry Tyler -- of tylerbears
RE: [VAL] Gas mileage
Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
[VAL] 1960 Tradewind Internationl Question
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:16:18 EDT
From: Annj949@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Fwd: (no subject)
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From: Annj949@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Full-name: Annj949
Message-ID: <fc.4812e9a.2eae6276@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:06:46 EDT
Subject: (no subject)
To: http:www.servinfree.netvalist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
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Good morning can any one tell me about tying down an Airstream to a pad in
Florida.Thanks for any help. Ann #9431
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:41:01 -0500
From: Jim Clark <jec1938@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
I have an "02" Silverado 2500 that gets 15+ mpg on the turnpike doing 70
with cruise control and no trailer... drops to 10 - 11 with the trailer and
the button pushed to get it into tow mode... Tow mode as I understand it
keeps the trans in a gear longer and moves the shift points around so that
the truck is not in the top gear (overdrive) in the speeds I drive with the
trailer... We have a 32' Excella that is heavier than your trailer, but
probably still comparable towing on fairly flat ground... same relative
frontal area...
You might want to check the actual towing rating of the truck... I think
the 10,000 lb rating you are referring to is the safety rating on the hitch
receiver... actual towing rating with that rear end is probably less than
8,000...
I have a neighbor that notices a drop from 10 mpg with his new pickup to 8
mpg just by putting it in 4 wheel drive... ( short trips and around town.)
I am considering a switch to diesel for my next truck and expect mpg to
jump to 18+ with the trailer.... and 20+ on the road without the trailer...
around town will probably still be way down ...not enough relative time
spent in the high gears...
Best regards,
Jim
At 09:08 PM 10/28/2004, you wrote:
>Thanks for some good comparative data. We have similar situations,
>half-ton truck with a small-block V8 and a small trailer (17-foot
>Caravel vs 16-foot Pacer.) Your trailer is only causing a 10% increase
>in fuel consumption (15.5 vs 17 MPG) and my trailer is causing a 45%
>increase in fuel consumption (11 vs 16 MPG) so I should be able to do
>better. In your case, you had to fine-tune the final drive ratio to do
>it.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:02:35 -0500
From: "Tom Patterson" <pattersontom@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
Running at 70 on the freeway/highway and more or less posted speed around
town, I get the following with my 2000 F-250 diesel. This is all with
automatic overdrive, and does include mountain mileage while towing. I
notice that prevailing wind can have as much effect as terrain on the
mileage.
Bobtail around town - 18 mpg
Bobtail on highway - 22 - 24 mpg
Towing trailer on highway - 15 - 16 mpg
I am towing a 22' Streamline, probably around 5000 lbs. My mpg went up 3-4
mpg when I had a BD chip installed.
- -Tom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Clark" <jec1938@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
>I have an "02" Silverado 2500 that gets 15+ mpg on the turnpike doing 70
>with cruise control and no trailer... drops to 10 - 11 with the trailer and
>the button pushed to get it into tow mode... Tow mode as I understand it
>keeps the trans in a gear longer and moves the shift points around so that
>the truck is not in the top gear (overdrive) in the speeds I drive with the
>trailer... We have a 32' Excella that is heavier than your trailer, but
>probably still comparable towing on fairly flat ground... same relative
>frontal area...
>
> You might want to check the actual towing rating of the truck... I think
> the 10,000 lb rating you are referring to is the safety rating on the
> hitch receiver... actual towing rating with that rear end is probably less
> than 8,000...
>
> I have a neighbor that notices a drop from 10 mpg with his new pickup to 8
> mpg just by putting it in 4 wheel drive... ( short trips and around town.)
>
> I am considering a switch to diesel for my next truck and expect mpg to
> jump to 18+ with the trailer.... and 20+ on the road without the
> trailer... around town will probably still be way down ...not enough
> relative time spent in the high gears...
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jim
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:34:09 -0500
From: "Dan Childress" <daniel@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Fwd: (no subject)
I am presently adding four tie-downs to my caravel. I will be using 1/2 in
stainless steel "I" bolts attached to the frame rails on the corners. Have
no information other that this is my solution.
Dan
14148
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <Annj949@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 6:16 AM
Subject: [VAL] Fwd: (no subject)
> Return-path: <Annj949@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> From: Annj949@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Full-name: Annj949
> Message-ID: <fc.4812e9a.2eae6276@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:06:46 EDT
> Subject: (no subject)
> To: http:www.servinfree.netvalist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5035
> X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 1.01d
> X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain
>
> Good morning can any one tell me about tying down an Airstream to a pad in
> Florida.Thanks for any help. Ann #9431
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:45:06 EDT
From: Vettenut1972@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Gas Mileage
I have done quite a bit of towing (61 Tradewind) with a 93 Crown Vic. and
have kept carefulrecords when going cross country. Solo I get 28 to 30 Hwy. With
trailer it has usually beed between 15 and 17. Interestingly, I have a 5x8
enclosed box trailer thats top is under 6 ft. above the street. When towing it
even lightly loaded I usually only get 18 mpg. Unloaded I can easily roll it
around the driveway by hand. I would have thought that as light and short as it
is that towing would have been nothing, win resistance does matter.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:51:32 -0500
From: "Dr. Gerald Johnson" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Re: Tie down connections.
Forged or welded eye bolts (see 3069T42 or 3032T66 or 3018T44 at
www.mcmaster.com) are considerably stronger than bent rod eyebolts.
Farm stores carry screw in earth anchors. Look for them to have welded eyes for
maximum strength. The longest ones with 6" diameter plates are the strongest.
(6300A28 at McMaster-Carr). Such parts should also be available for anchoring
mobile homes, though their eyes may be made for flat steel straps. Using them for
antenna guy wire anchors, I've found them to be unreliable in some wet soils
where they pulled very easily. There only large blocks of concrete (a yard or two
per anchor) was safe.
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:07:37 -0700
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
Umm, Tom - what is a BD chip? What other effect does it have - can't be
just to improve milage or there'd be a real long line forming to buy
it. Are these chips available for most trucks. I tow with a Tundra (V8)
and my milage dropped from about 18 - 20 on the freeway to around 13
and that's at CA's mandated 55 mph when towing. Pretty bad. I did take
it out of overdrive (the manual suggests doing that), but I'm thinking
I should keep it in overdrive on level ground and just keep an eye on
the Tach. Any other Tundra tow vehicle folk out there?
Jo Ann
> I am towing a 22' Streamline, probably around 5000 lbs. My mpg went
> up 3-4 mpg when I had a BD chip installed.
>
> -Tom
>
> --
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:19:54 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
Chips put in different computer inputs to your vehicle's
engine/transmission.
BD is a brand name.
Tom - not the other Tom who wrote the post
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Joann Wheatley" <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
> Umm, Tom - what is a BD chip? What other effect does it have - can't be
> just to improve milage or there'd be a real long line forming to buy it.
> Are these chips available for most trucks. I tow with a Tundra (V8) and my
> milage dropped from about 18 - 20 on the freeway to around 13 and that's
> at CA's mandated 55 mph when towing. Pretty bad. I did take it out of
> overdrive (the manual suggests doing that), but I'm thinking I should keep
> it in overdrive on level ground and just keep an eye on the Tach. Any
> other Tundra tow vehicle folk out there?
> Jo Ann
>> I am towing a 22' Streamline, probably around 5000 lbs. My mpg went up
>> 3-4 mpg when I had a BD chip installed.
>>
>> -Tom
>>
>> --
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 13:15:08 -0500
From: "Dan Childress" <daniel@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
Joann:
How do you like your Tundra. I have a 69 Caravel and have been looking at
the tundra to us as a tow vehicle. Is yours a 4WD?
Dan
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Joann Wheatley" <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
> Umm, Tom - what is a BD chip? What other effect does it have - can't be
> just to improve milage or there'd be a real long line forming to buy it.
> Are these chips available for most trucks. I tow with a Tundra (V8) and my
> milage dropped from about 18 - 20 on the freeway to around 13 and that's
> at CA's mandated 55 mph when towing. Pretty bad. I did take it out of
> overdrive (the manual suggests doing that), but I'm thinking I should keep
> it in overdrive on level ground and just keep an eye on the Tach. Any
> other Tundra tow vehicle folk out there?
> Jo Ann
>> I am towing a 22' Streamline, probably around 5000 lbs. My mpg went up
>> 3-4 mpg when I had a BD chip installed.
>>
>> -Tom
>>
>> --
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 14:00:32 -0500
From: "Tom Patterson" <pattersontom@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
As Tom Meeker said, its a chip to change the input to the
engine/transmission. The factory PowerStroke 7.3 diesel came somewhat
detuned to prevent users from damaging the engine. The chip, instead of the
factory supplied chip, increased my truck's horsepower by about 75, and
added about 100 ft. lbs. of torque in addition to the better mileage.
I don't know what all aftermarket chips are available for what engines. BD
itself specializes in diesels---Ford, GM and Dodge.
- -Tom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Joann Wheatley" <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
> Umm, Tom - what is a BD chip? What other effect does it have - can't be
> just to improve milage or there'd be a real long line forming to buy it.
> Are these chips available for most trucks. I tow with a Tundra (V8) and my
> milage dropped from about 18 - 20 on the freeway to around 13 and that's
> at CA's mandated 55 mph when towing. Pretty bad. I did take it out of
> overdrive (the manual suggests doing that), but I'm thinking I should keep
> it in overdrive on level ground and just keep an eye on the Tach. Any
> other Tundra tow vehicle folk out there?
> Jo Ann
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:24:28 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] Ping - Patti R
Patti Raimondo,
Please get in touch with me off list.
Thanks,
Tom
WBCCI 5303
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:25:52 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] PING - Terry Tyler -- of tylerbears
Terry of *tylerbears*,
Please get in touch with me off the list.
Thanks,
Tom
WBCCI 5303
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:51:15 -0400
From: "eemerick" <eemerick@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Gas mileage
Hi John,
With the 04 Suburban, 3/4 ton, 8.1 I get 11.4 pulling the 30' Sovereign.
We are heavy when we go, full water and propane tanks, 4 bikes, 2 kids,
2 dogs and a very light cat. The drawers and closets are full most of
the time with the kids stuff. When I weighed the whole thing I was a
14,600 lbs. The truck by itself gets 14.5 on the highway & 11.5 in the
city. The 98 1/2 Suburban 5.7 got 10 with the trailer. It seems to me
the bigger motor helps increase the mileage as I don't have to keep my
foot in it all the time to go down the road. And now I can say "what
wind?"
Ed
WBCCI/Vac 4425
68 Sovereign
59 Traveler
- -----Original Message-----
From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com
[mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com] On Behalf Of John Sellers
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 10:39 PM
To: VA List
Subject: [VAL] Gas mileage
Gang,
The list has been pretty quiet lately, so maybe now is a good time to
ask a question I have been wondering about. What kind of gas mileage
can we expect to get towing an Airstream, especially one of the smaller
ones?
We have been towing our 16-foot 1960 Pacer for two seasons now, and I am
a little surprised that we don't get better mileage. More details
below, but briefly, our half-ton 4WD pickup truck, depending on load,
terrain, wind, etc. gets anywhere from 16 - 20 MPG on the highway
without the trailer, but only 10 - 11 MPG with the trailer. That's no
better than we got with a Rockwood 22-foot motor home, at 10,500 pounds
GVW and the aerodynamics of a barn.
Here are the details: We are towing with a 1994 Chevrolet K1500 4WD
half-ton pickup (with a fiberglass cap), gas V8 (5.7 liter EFI),
overdrive automatic transmission, 3.42 rear axle, and factory towing
package. Truck configuration is plain cab, long bed, 6,000 pound GWVR.
Truck tires are Goodyear Wrangler LT 225/75R16 inflated to the
factory-recommended 50 PSI.
I have always been impressed by the mileage that the truck delivers by
itself. I'm not exaggerating when I say that I have averaged 20 MPG on
several cross-country trips, admittedly lightly loaded and probably with
a tailwind. 16 MPG is more typical with a heavy load. Not bad for a
6,000 pound GVW four-wheel-drive vehicle. (Running in 2WD on the
highway, of course.)
According to information in the VAC archives, the 1960 Pacer weighs 1750
pounds empty, and I would guess 2,500 loaded, at most. There's not much
in a Pacer - 15 gallon fresh water tank and 7.5 gallon black tank, no
water heater, no A/C. Not much storage space, either, which is why the
truck is usually pretty well loaded when towing the trailer.
Tires on the Pacer are the original type 7.00-15 LT bias ply, except
that the trailer originally carried Load Range C and we are running
Firestone Trans-Rib Load Range D. We have also been carrying 50 PSI in
the trailer tires. (At full inflation for Load Range D, 60 PSI, each
tire is rated for 2,040 pounds, darn near the weight of the whole
trailer.)
The Pacer tows very nicely. Except for seeing this big shiny thing in
the rear view mirror, on level road it's easy to forget it's back
there. So howcum this combination going down the road at 8,500 pounds
combined vehicle weight and slick aerodynamics doesn't get any better
mileage than the old Rockwood motor home on a GMC van chassis with the
same 5.7 liter V8 (carbureted, not EFI) and the drag coefficient of a
sign board?
One obvious difference when towing is that I am running the transmission
in D, not overdrive, and the engine is turning up probably 25% higher
revs for a given speed. This is somewhat offset by the fact that I
drive slower with the 'Stream, trying to keep it down to 55 - 60 as
opposed to whatever the traffic will bear when running without the
trailer. The owners manual advises against towing in overdrive, but it
might save some gas. Anybody have any experience with it one way or
another? I'm a little reluctant to try it. Ruining the transmission
would cancel out a lot of gas savings.
I should mention that I frequently feel the trailer tires and hubs at
rest stops to make sure nothing is running hot. They have never been
much warmer than ambient temperature. This seems to rule out a problem
like axle misalignment or the trailer brakes dragging.
Would be interested in hearing other people's experience with gas
mileage. Anything I should be doing to improve mileage without major
capital investment--like a diesel tow vehicle?
See you down the road,
John & Barb Sellers
WBCCI/VAC #1587
1960 Pacer
Dayton, Ohio
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:53:54 -0700
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
Well that explains it.jw
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:00:55 -0700
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
Dan & interested others:
My Tundra is a 2000 - the year they were introduced. There was a
problem with the brakes which my dealer fixed by replacing major
components; rotors, drums, calipers, etc. at no cost to me. I have had
no farther problems and my truck is now four and a half years old.
I've used Castrol Syntec since the truck was new. I absolutely love the
truck - it's my third Toyota truck so I guess I'm leaning heavily in
that direction. I have driven a lot of Fords and Chevys and it just
seems the Toyota suits me best. I have have absolutely nothing go wrong
with it and it tows my little Bubble - now up to 3200 lbs, perfectly. I
think the new big 4 full-size door model is even beefier if you have a
heavier trailer.
Jo Ann
On Oct 2004, at 11:15 AM, Dan Childress wrote:
> Joann:
> How do you like your Tundra. I have a 69 Caravel and have been
> looking at the tundra to us as a tow vehicle. Is yours a 4WD?
> Dan
> -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:04:45 -0700
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Gas Mileage
Thanks Tom, I'm not much of an engine person but an increase of 75
ponies sure caught my attention!
Jo Ann
> As Tom Meeker said, its a chip to change the input to the
> engine/transmission. The factory PowerStroke 7.3 diesel came somewhat
> detuned to prevent users from damaging the engine. The chip, instead
> of the factory supplied chip, increased my truck's horsepower by about
> 75, and added about 100 ft. lbs. of torque in addition to the better
> mileage.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 04:16:19 +0000
From: c-l@xxxxxxxxxx.net
Subject: [VAL] 1960 Tradewind Internationl Question
Well, we finally got our 1960 Tradewind International out of storage to start her
renovation. It has the double bed option, and oddly enough, the bed is 481/2" wide.
This makes the walk way to the rear bath narrow enough for the wardrobe doors to
hit it when they are opened. Are they all like this. The double bed in our 65
Overlander is 47" wide, and allows the doors to open fully. If there is anyone else
with a 1960 Tradewind International, that would be willing to exchane info, it
would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Chuck & Lynn
1965 Overlander
1960 Tradewind International
1949 Airstream Southwind Model
------------------------------
End of VAL Digest V2 #51
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