VAL Digest V2 #50

VAL Digest          Friday, October 29 2004          Volume 02 : Number 050




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Topics in Today's Digest:

[VAL] Vintage Airstream Wiring...
Re: [VAL] Gas mileage
[VAL] Looking for 2 trailers for rent for the NADA event
Re: [VAL] Vintage Airstream Wiring...
[VAL] Re: gas mileage
RE: [VAL] Vintage Airstream Wiring...
[VAL] Re:  Gas Mileage

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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:55:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: BC <Bill.Costa@xxxxxxxxxx.unh.edu>
Subject: [VAL] Vintage Airstream Wiring...

    Gary Quamen recently posted (in part):

> I have a problem related to aluminum wires that I need to deal with
> sooner or later.

    It's not clear from his posting if Gary is dealing with the
    trailer's original wiring or something that was added later.

    So my question is, was aluminum wiring used as original equipment
    on Airstreams of any vintage?  If so, was it in the AC or DC
    circuits, or both?

                                                         ...BC
- -- 
+---------------------[ Bill.Costa@xxxxxxxxxx.UNH.edu ]---+
| Bill Costa                                          |
| 54 College Road -- CIS CTR    WORK: +1-603-862-3056 |  No good deed...
| University of New Hampshire   HOME: +1-603-435-8526 |   goes unpunished.
| Durham, NH  03824-3566  USA                         |
|                                                     |
+-----------------[ http://pubpages.unh.edu/~wfc/ ]---+

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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:17:56 -0400
From: "Bobby Gill" <gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Gas mileage

John
I have a 1988 Chevy K1500 w/5.7 liter (350) engine also.
Regular cab, short bed 4 wheeldrive
Mine is a 4-speed though, not automatic, and it also has 3:42 rearend.
Gas milage towing our 29' Ambassdor is around 12-13 MPG.
I also tow an enclosed trailer everyday which weighs around 3000lbs, with it I
still get about 12-13 MPG and 10 MPG towing in town.
My tires are 31X10.50X15 Michelin LTX M/S.
I have also run Daytona Radial A/T 285/75R15, which are actually 1/2 inch
taller than the 31" tires on it now, and I got better milage with them. Oh
they are also skinnyer than the 31X10.50"s. It wasn't much better only like
1-2 MPG more.
Also I'm in south Georgia, and most driving is flat, on trips to North Georgia
mountains the MPG was about the same as on trips to Florida though.

Bobby



  Here are the details:  We are towing with a 1994 Chevrolet K1500 4WD
  half-ton pickup (with a fiberglass cap), gas V8 (5.7 liter EFI),
  overdrive automatic transmission, 3.42 rear axle, and factory towing
  package.  Truck configuration is plain cab, long bed, 6,000 pound GWVR.
  Truck tires are Goodyear Wrangler LT 225/75R16 inflated to the
  factory-recommended 50 PSI.

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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 07:58:22 -0700
From: RJ.Dial@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Looking for 2 trailers for rent for the NADA event

Anyone in the South interested in displaying their restored Globetrotter
and smaller trailer in January?  Contact her direct at
vero.meunier@xxxxxxxxxx.com

RJ

- ------ Forwarded Message
From: Veronique Meunier <vero.meunier@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:58:05 -0700
To: "'webmaster@xxxxxxxxxx.com'"
Subject: Looking for 2 trailers for rent for the NADA event

Hi,

My name is Veronique and Andrea Davis in Ohio referred me to your
website.
I am planning a large event for one of my clients (the NADA annual
Exhibit in New Orleans next January).  For this event I am looking for 2
shiny airstreams trailers up to 19 ft long, in perfect condition, to be
part of a tradeshow booth.  I'm looking in Louisiana but also the states
around (Georgia, Arkansas, Florida, Alabama, Texas, etc.) and would
handle the transportation.  The trailers would be needed for 6 days
total and we would pay of course for this service.  All security is
taking care of and the trailers are watched during the exhibition time.

Could you ask around or forward this message to your members?  I would
be glad to answer any question and give more information about this
opportunity.

Thanks in advance,
Sincerely,
Veronique Meunier
Assistant Producer
National Meeting Company, Inc.
1108 SE Grand Avenue, Suite 300
Portland, OR 97214
Direct: (503)546-6446

- ------ End of Forwarded Message

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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:44:54 -0500
From: "Dr. Gerald Johnson" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Vintage Airstream Wiring...

My '68 Caravel has aluminum 12 gauge romex (rated at 15 amps) for both 12 
volt DC distribution (interior lights and accessories) and 120 volt AC circuits. Its a 
bare aluminum conductor that is difficult to make connections to. Small solid 
aluminum wire was a very bad idea and I've investigated deaths caused by it. 
I'm not using any of the 120 volt wires in my Caravel until I work on it.

I'd wish to pull the aluminum and pull in 14 gauge copper but I've not tried that 
yet. Modern plastic insulated romex is significantly smaller than the '68 vintage 
product. Second best is to replace ALL the switches and receptacles with 
modern switches and receptacles rated for aluminum wire. They do exist, cost 
under $3 each at Lowe's or Home Depot. Another alternative is to pigtail the 
aluminum wires in each box with copper ends using wire nuts rated for both 
copper and aluminum (up to $2 a wire nut at Home Depot, unheard of most 
places) or with crimp pigtails made for the application. In any case its a benefit 
to the aluminum connection to coat the bare wire with NoOx or similar aluminum 
conductor grease. It contains zinc crystals to break through the aluminum oxide 
to get a connection and the grease keeps air from allowing more oxide to form.

Circuit breakers are often rated for aluminum wire, but the tags should be read 
to be sure. Some older breakers may not be so rated but new plain breakers are 
not expensive.

Connections made for aluminum have to cope with the relatively large 
expansion of the aluminum conductor when it warms up. In an ordinary 
receptacle or switch, the brass clamp screw doesn't expand with the aluminum 
and so as the aluminum expands, it extrudes sideways from under the screw. 
Then after it cools its a little loose and heats much more the next time the circuit 
is loaded. A few such cycles and it heats rapidly and can lead to a fire.  I had a 
death case where a shorted saw cord overheated ground wire connections so 
that the next time that shorted saw was turned on it killed the user who was 
outside and wet. That ground circuit failed open.

I don't think any off the exterior marker, stop/turn, and back up light circuits use 
that aluminum romex, but I'm not certain. I know that the last time I attacked 
the Caravel reworking markers, tail, and license plate lamps (a bit of silicone 
grease such as used for modern gas vehicle ignition circuits is great to keep 
them working for years) I didn't get the back up lights to work. Last week as I 
worked my way into a back in spot in a state park, they lit and were handy.  

I know there's a 12 volt circuit in romex up into the front cupboard for feeding 
power to a radio. And my reading lamp at the rear of the couch has gone 
intermittent from one of those crappy aluminum wire connections. 

Right now, I have other projects that I give greater priority to this year and next. 
Then I may attack my Caravel wiring and I might hire a local electrician to help 
make it go faster.

Gerald J.       
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:26:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: jon fitz <fitzjo1@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Re: gas mileage

I'm towing with a Ford E250 van with a 5.8l EFI gas
engine.  The rear end is 3.73:1 and I usually tow in
D, because it shifts too much in OD.  The overall
drive ratio in D equates to about 3000 rpm at 70 mpg
(though it is unusual that I would go that fast).  
Tyical mileage is 13-15 mpg solo, 7-9 mpg with
trailer.

The trailer is a 1968 model 26 footer.  Weight is
around 5000 pounds loaded.  The van can tow it in OD
on flat terrain, but only just.  I can't imagine ever
towing in OD if I had ~3.4:1 rearend.  I think the
towing performance would be better on my van with the
4.11:1 rearend, b/c it would probably permit the use
of OD much more.  (Then again, maybe it would still
shift too much and I'd be even worse off!)

My guess is that wind drag is the primary issue. 
Unfortunately, it is more or less the same regardless
of trailer length.  It's true that the AS is more
aerodynamic than a billboard, but you have two
vehicles instead of one.  Obviously, going up a steep
grade will always make matters worse.  But, overall
you go downhill just as much as you go up.  The two
would cancel out if it wasn't for wind drag.

As for fuel grades, I would offer two comments.  On
the one hand, Ethanol contains less energy per gallon
than gas, and higher octane in and of itself doesn't
contain more energy.  On the other hand, if there is
pinging (which can be caused by running too high a
gear), the engine's "brain" can alter your timing
substantially, which leads to much lower power.

In summary, I believe that your mileage is typical for
a gasser, but your towing performance might improve a
little with lower gearing.  

Jon in SC
68 Overlander
 


		
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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:43:00 -0500
From: "Tom C. Williams" <tcwilliams@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Vintage Airstream Wiring...

- -----Original Message-----
    So my question is, was aluminum wiring used as original equipment
    on Airstreams of any vintage?  If so, was it in the AC or DC
    circuits, or both?
- -------------------------------
Bill,

In my '67 Overlander, aluminum wire was used for AC, and copper was used for
DC.

Tom

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:08:35 -0400
From: John Sellers <sellersj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Re:  Gas Mileage

Gang,

Thanks for some good comparison figures and ideas to try.  A few replies
and comments on suggestions that I have received so far.  I get the
Digest once a day, so bear in mind that I am only replying to responses
received Oct 27.

> [Tom]
>   
>Your rear axle gears are pretty tall, maybe too tall.  What grade of
> gasoline do you have to use?  If you use mid-grade your truck will run
> cooler and have more power as there's not as much alcohol (methanol?) in
> that grade as there is in standard regular gas.

I don't have any problem with power; the truck runs just fine with the
transmission in Drive. The Pacer isn't all that heavy.  (Trailer gross
weight in the neighborhood of 2500 pounds; factory trailering package is
supposed to be good for 10,000 pounds.)

I normally run 87 octane regular, although a few weeks ago passing
through Iowa I used 89 octane with ethanol since it's cheaper in Iowa. 
I wasn't keeping track of mileage at the time.

> Do you go slower towing the trailer than you do when running solo?  By how
> much either way?

Typical speeds solo are probably 75 on the Interstate.  I try to keep it
down to 55 or 60 with the trailer.  It occurs to me that I am really
comparing "apples to oranges" here; normally traveling solo I am trying
to get "from point A to point B" whereas when Airstreaming we often
follow back roads and poke our noses into small towns and
off-the-beaten-path historical sites.  To me, that's what Airstreaming
is all about, but it's not fair to compare it with all-highway mileage,
either.
 
> Years ago we had a Ford 2 wheel drive, 351 cubic inch block, fuel injected
> with tall gears like you have in the rear axle.  I had plenty of power when
> not towing but the truck needed premium grade gasoline or else it pinged
> (pre-ignition) when towing our 29' International Ambassador.  I also got
> lousy mileage.

You know, you have given me something to think about.  In the case you
describe, it sounds like you had ping because of lugging the engine at
too-low RPMs and too-high manifold pressure on account of your final
drive ratio.  I'm not seeing that.

But I will have to take a closer look at my RPMs in various scenarios
and try to draw some conclusions.  When towing in Drive the engine is
running faster than it is at the equivalent speed in Overdrive, and I
notice a rattle coming from the engine over a narrow range of throttle
settings that sounds like it might be part-throttle knock.  I don't like
to hear it, so I modulate the pedal pressure to stay out of that range. 
Either less gas or more gas and it the noise stops.  So I end up going
down the road at a varying speed.  It may be that this throttle
jockeying is also using more gas.

The wild card in the deck is that these EFI engines change the advance
curve and who knows what else in different gears.  I guess I need to
find a good mechanic who really knows what goes on in that truck and
have him lend an ear to it.  I'm not sure the noise I hear is
part-throttle knock, valves, piston slap, or ???.  It's not very loud. 
But whatever it is only occurs over a narrow range of throttle setting. 
I have tried premium and super-premium gas and it had no effect on the
noise.   

> --------------------------------------------
> [Dr. J]
> 
> My '98 F-150 with 4.6L V-8 gets 16 to 17.5 mpg running 60 to 75 mph
> unloaded. That's with 4.10 rear axle gears. With my '68 Caravel on the hitch and
> holding to 50 to 52 mph I got 15.5 mpg one tank last week.

Thanks for some good comparative data.  We have similar situations,
half-ton truck with a small-block V8 and a small trailer (17-foot
Caravel vs 16-foot Pacer.)  Your trailer is only causing a 10% increase
in fuel consumption (15.5 vs 17 MPG) and my trailer is causing a 45%
increase in fuel consumption (11 vs 16 MPG) so I should be able to do
better. In your case, you had to fine-tune the final drive ratio to do
it.

> 
> A transmission should be most efficient in straight through either drive or
> 4 th gear in my transmission because there need be no gears loaded for that
> condition. Going to overdrive slows the engine, making it put out more
> torque and for some engines like my little 289 cubic inch V-8, its not good at
> producing torque at low speeds. Its torque peak is at 3700 rpm and horsepower 
> peak is at 4700 rpm. I don't know about the Chevy 5.7 liter.

The 5.7 seems to like to operate at low speeds and high torque.  It
seems quite happy running down the highway at 70 MPH in overdrive
turning over only about 2000 RPM.  
 
> >I suspect radial trailer tires would raise the hitched mileage, since
> radials roll so much easier than bias ply tires.<

True. I will probably look for radials when I replace the tires. 
Unfortunately I just put the bias plys on last summer so it probably
won't make economic sense to replace them for a few more years. 

> >I don't know that the 5.7 L engine needs to run faster for better economy.
> Likely it needs to run slower, but only tests will show that. Perhaps if you
> have really good transmission cooling, a half tank of gas in overdrive might
> show if running slower is more efficient. But give up on towing in overdrive
> if it shifts down much at all. Those shifts out of overdrive under load
> are transmission killers.

I think I'm going to try that.  I have run it briefly in overdrive in
flat country with no apparent problems, but not long enough to get
any gas mileage figures.  

> Then you might try running the engine faster in 2nd instead of drive for a similar test period.<

May try that too, but it would really wind up in 2nd!

> Alcohol content of gasoline varies with grade and location. Around St. Louis
> and other major cities, its likely all has 10% ethanol for smog reduction. In
> Iowa away from big cities, the mid grade is the only one with alcohol, but it
> runs my truck smoother than regular and is generally cheaper due to lower tax
> on that corn product. All gas in Minnesota has 10% ethanol no matter the grade.
> So its not necessarily true to say that mid grade has less ethanol. Here it has
> more ethanol but gives 89 or 90 octane that way. And burns ethanol produced from
> corn I sometimes grow.

A few weeks ago when coming into Iowa from Minnesota I did a double-take
when I saw 89 octane mid-grade was cheaper than 87 octane regular.  Then
I noticed the sign that said it was 10% ethanol and quickly synapsed
that Iowa = corn = ethanol = tax break.  I haven't noticed any
difference in performance with either one, however. 
 
> [Joy H. Hansen]
> 
> >So, I studied the issue and finally got an '02 tow vehicle to my liking, the
> F250 Power Stroke diesel 4X4 crew cab with the short bed.  The usual highway
> fuel mileage for this HUGE truck runs 18-19 mpg.  Towing My trailer over
> many thousands of miles, the fuel efficiency drops to 14 mpg.  Heavy pulls
> in mountains drops it to 12.

The interesting thing is that your trailer causes about a 35% increase
in fuel consumption (14 vs 19 MPG), not too far from the 45% that I am
seeing.  But the cases are not very similar--you have a BIG truck and a
BIG trailer, yet you get lower fuel consumption on account of the higher
efficiency of the turbo diesel.
 
> Based on my experiences, I'd not want to purchase a gasoline powered puller.<

My last truck was a diesel.  I have nothing against diesels, but my own
experience was that there was no cost savings.  Right at the moment
diesel fuel costs 10% MORE per gallon than gasoline in these parts.  And
my experience was that every little maintenance job on the diesel cost
more than the equivalent gas truck, just because it was a diesel.

In any case, a diesel is something to think about for my next tow
vehicle, which I hope to put off for a few years yet, seeing as how the
'94 runs great and has been a very reliable vehicle for me.

See you down the road,

John Sellers
WBCCI/VAC #1587
1960 Pacer
Dayton, Ohio

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End of VAL Digest V2 #50
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