The Vintage Airstream E-mail ListDigest Archive Files
VAL Digest V2 #222
VAL Digest Tuesday, April 19 2005 Volume 02 : Number 222
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Topics in Today's Digest:
Re: [VAL] cable TV vs. satellite TV
Re: [VAL] cable TV vs. satellite TV
Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Re: [VAL] Welcome 1980?
Re: [VAL] Welcome 1980?
Re: [VAL] Welcome 1980?
[VAL] Source for Oddie Fasteners
[VAL] Hot water heater
Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
[VAL] Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
[VAL] Wayne Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Re: [VAL] WBCCI International Rally/Routes to Springfield
Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Re: [VAL] Wayne Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Re: [VAL] Wayne Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
Re: [VAL] Wayne Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
[VAL] I need help!
Re: [VAL] I need help!
Re: [VAL] Wayne Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
Re: [VAL] I need help!
[VAL] Scott S re: the Mother Road and Economical Tow Vehicles
Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Re: [VAL] Wayne Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
Re: [VAL] I need help!
Re: [VAL] I need help!
Re: [VAL] Wayne Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
Re: [VAL] Wayne Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 08:17:40 -0500
From: Blair <hitek_airstream@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] cable TV vs. satellite TV
I'll be headed your way the end of the month got to go to Burlington to
have my vehicle inspected.
Then off to Wilmington for the week end. How's the weather outlook?
At 03:02 PM 4/16/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi Blair,
>
>I'm in North Carolina, NE of Charlotte by about 30 miles.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Tom
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Blair" <hitek_airstream@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
>To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
>Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 8:30 AM
>Subject: Re: [VAL] cable TV vs. satellite TV
>
>
>>Tom
>>
>>Your thought process is fine .
>>
>>I installed the Winegard RM-DM55 which is a crank up TV and Satellite
>>combo dish with built in elevation sensor. Works great.
>>
>>Check out the specs at http://www.winegard.com/mobile/pdf/2451070.pdf
>>
>>Where are you located?
>>
>>Blair
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>At 11:02 PM 4/15/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>>>Is it at all possible to "try out" a satellite TV service without a 2-year
>>>commitment?
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>>This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with Airstream
>>Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>>
>>When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>>
>>To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>>http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with Airstream
>Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
>When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 08:19:13 -0500
From: Blair <hitek_airstream@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] cable TV vs. satellite TV
I'll be headed your way the end of the month got to go to Burlington to
have my vehicle inspected.
Then off to Wilmington for the week end. How's the weather outlook?
Blair
www.prepaidlegal.com/idt/blair
At 03:02 PM 4/16/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi Blair,
>
>I'm in North Carolina, NE of Charlotte by about 30 miles.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Tom
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Blair" <hitek_airstream@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
>To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
>Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 8:30 AM
>Subject: Re: [VAL] cable TV vs. satellite TV
>
>
>>Tom
>>
>>Your thought process is fine .
>>
>>I installed the Winegard RM-DM55 which is a crank up TV and Satellite
>>combo dish with built in elevation sensor. Works great.
>>
>>Check out the specs at http://www.winegard.com/mobile/pdf/2451070.pdf
>>
>>Where are you located?
>>
>>Blair
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>At 11:02 PM 4/15/2005 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>>>Is it at all possible to "try out" a satellite TV service without a 2-year
>>>commitment?
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>>This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with Airstream
>>Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>>
>>When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>>
>>To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>>http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with Airstream
>Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
>When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:24:16 -0400
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Vanessa,
Your Cruiser...does it have 1 axel or 2? On a 25 foot trailer the addition
of a second axel makes a lot of difference with stability when you are
passed by other vehicles on the highway. I know from experience. I have a 26
foot Overlander with only 1 axel. I have towed it now for over 25 years.
Overall it is well mannered. However, get passed by a truck or bus, or on
some days even a fast paced car you will know it. The long overhang behind
the trailer's axel gets pushed by the wind currents and rocks the trailer
back and forth which in turn rocks your tow vehicle around. The 25/26 foot
models have an exceptionally long back end and get rocked easily. The
addition of a second axel helps temendously.
So, what if you only have 1 axel? The key to stability lies in one of two
areas...1, buy a hensley hitch. or 2...
buy the largest, heaviest, longest wheelbased vehicle you can live with. Yes
mpg's are an issue...so is confidence and safety on the road!
I own a 3/4 ton Dodge Ram pickup with the cummins diesel engine. 17/25 mpg
solo and 15 to 17 mpg when towing. It is large, heavy, and it has a long
wheelbase. The fuel economy is better than anything else I have tried (even
mid-sized vehicles). And you can't beat how the trailer handles. Honestly
99% of the time you have no idea that the trailer is back there it is so
well behaved. It cost me 10K 3 years ago and had 200K miles on it. In those
3 years I have traveled 70K miles, averaging 1 repair per year. I have had
new vehicles that haven't done that well!
Another thing...remember that you rarely will be towing an empty trailer.
What you really need to do is load it up with all the stuff you would like
to take along...fill the water tanks, add food and clothes...etc, etc. THEN
weigh the trailer. You may very well be suprised what the actual weight of
your trailer is when ready to travel. This is the weight that you need to go
by when you go shopping for a tow vehicle!
Scott Scheuermann
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 08:30:15 -0500
From: "Chaplain Kent" <Chaplainkent@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Welcome 1980?
Do we go by calendar year or the WBCCI year (International rally date)? I am
eager for my new 1982 Classic Turbo Diesel Motor Home to become vintage.
Chaplain Kent
----- Original Message -----
From: William Kerfoot
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Welcome 1980?
Ed,
Yes, a 1980 is Vintage and in a few months a 1981 will be Vintage also.
Bill Kerfoot
WBCCI/VAC #5223
1973 Dodge W200 PowerWagon
1977 Lincoln Continental
1979 23' Airstream Safari
and soon a 1954 double door Liner
Orange, CA
http://www.tompatterson.com/gallery/Bill-Beth-1979-Safari
eemerick wrote:
>Hello All,
>I was pondering the Vintage status of the 1980 Airstream this evening
>and correct me if I'm wrong but does not the 1980 join the ranks of
>Vintage this year? I'm looking at a 1980 and was just wondering.
>Thanks
>Ed
>WBCCI/VAC 4425
>68 Sovereign
>59 Traveler
>80 ???
-----------------------------------------------------------------
This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
Airstream
Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:40:29 -0400
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Welcome 1980?
As of Jan 1 2005 all 1980 Airstream products are considered vintage as far
as the VAC is conserned.
Scott
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "eemerick" <eemerick@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
To: "Vintage List" <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:18 PM
Subject: [VAL] Welcome 1980?
> Hello All,
> I was pondering the Vintage status of the 1980 Airstream this evening
> and correct me if I'm wrong but does not the 1980 join the ranks of
> Vintage this year? I'm looking at a 1980 and was just wondering.
> Thanks
> Ed
> WBCCI/VAC 4425
> 68 Sovereign
> 59 Traveler
> 80 ???
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 10:56:44 -0400
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Welcome 1980?
Chaplain Kent, we go by calendar year. Your '82 is eligible Jan 1st 2007.
However, you should know that the VAC accepts associate memberships...ie
your Airstream need not be 25 years old...there will be some restrictions on
your membership, but you can be a member now!
Scott Scheuermann
VAC Membership
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Chaplain Kent" <Chaplainkent@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Welcome 1980?
> Do we go by calendar year or the WBCCI year (International rally date)? I
am
> eager for my new 1982 Classic Turbo Diesel Motor Home to become vintage.
> Chaplain Kent
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:42:38 EDT
From: Sweetbeee@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Source for Oddie Fasteners
Hi all,
My source for the Oddie Fasteners is in the Netherlands and sells some of the
units by the hundred, please check them out and maybe a company that caters
to vintage Airstreams will buy them then we can purchase from them in smaller
increments.
The company is Schepro
The link for the fasteners is:
http://www.materiaal.nl/eng/now/frames_cc1ta620.htm
do go into all the sublinks for this group and the clasps were used too on
some of my trailers underbelly hatches I believe, I wish some of you engineering
types would comb through this site and see what was used by Airstream in the
old days as I have a feeling some of these products were, I just have trouble
with the diagrams as they separate the parts out.
Good luck and let me know if anyone carries these later on.
Bebe Gordon
62 Tradewind
Lafayette LA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:12:59 EDT
From: Sweetbeee@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Hot water heater
Hi group,
I did eventually get my hot water heater to stay lit and do its thing, but in
pursuit of parts I did run into snags along the way. Even Atwood's senior
techs said they couldn't match the old valve thereby saving the heater itself.
I did, however, come up on an oldtimer who said he could match any valve need
(now mind you, I didn't take him up on it as I didn't need to) it's nice to
know there's someone out there that doesn't extoll the virtues of removal and
replacement of the complete unit. That would be Mr. Howell from:
HOWELL'S RV APPLIANCE REPAIR
11366 N. Woodside Avenue
Santee, CA 92071
Phone: 619 441 0066
JolRj@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Now, I have a Tradewind that had 4 single beds (2 regular and 2 bunk beds)
and not a single mattress between them. I happen to live in a town that has a
mom and pop mattress manufacturer and can do custom work, just to have as a
source their address is:
IRWIN'S MATTRESS FACTORY
301 E WILLOW ST
LAFAYETTE, LA 70501
(337) 234-8471
I'm new to the group but this is my third vintage Airstream, I had a 1961
Tradewind Double and a 1965 Safari in the past so I'm not new to the problems
of
restoration. I appreciate all of your help in the technical aspects of
restoring this Tradewind, thanks to all of you for your input.
Bebe Gordon
62 Tradewind
Lafayette LA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:17:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: DAVID GRYVNAK <gryvnakd@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Scott,
How much does your trailer weigh and what size and make tires do you run with?
Dave Gryvnak, GryvnakD@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Scott Scheuermann <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net> wrote:
Vanessa,
Your Cruiser...does it have 1 axel or 2? On a 25 foot trailer the addition
of a second axel makes a lot of difference with stability when you are
passed by other vehicles on the highway. I know from experience. I have a 26
foot Overlander with only 1 axel. I have towed it now for over 25 years.
Overall it is well mannered. However, get passed by a truck or bus, or on
some days even a fast paced car you will know it. The long overhang behind
the trailer's axel gets pushed by the wind currents and rocks the trailer
back and forth which in turn rocks your tow vehicle around. The 25/26 foot
models have an exceptionally long back end and get rocked easily. The
addition of a second axel helps temendously.
So, what if you only have 1 axel? The key to stability lies in one of two
areas...1, buy a hensley hitch. or 2...
buy the largest, heaviest, longest wheelbased vehicle you can live with. Yes
mpg's are an issue...so is confidence and safety on the road!
I own a 3/4 ton Dodge Ram pickup with the cummins diesel engine. 17/25 mpg
solo and 15 to 17 mpg when towing. It is large, heavy, and it has a long
wheelbase. The fuel economy is better than anything else I have tried (even
mid-sized vehicles). And you can't beat how the trailer handles. Honestly
99% of the time you have no idea that the trailer is back there it is so
well behaved. It cost me 10K 3 years ago and had 200K miles on it. In those
3 years I have traveled 70K miles, averaging 1 repair per year. I have had
new vehicles that haven't done that well!
Another thing...remember that you rarely will be towing an empty trailer.
What you really need to do is load it up with all the stuff you would like
to take along...fill the water tanks, add food and clothes...etc, etc. THEN
weigh the trailer. You may very well be suprised what the actual weight of
your trailer is when ready to travel. This is the weight that you need to go
by when you go shopping for a tow vehicle!
Scott Scheuermann
Dave
GryvnakD@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Dave,
GryvnakD@xxxxxxxxxx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with Airstream
Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:47:40 -0400
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Dave,
Loaded, ready for the road my '60 Overlander tips the scales at 4700...OK,
that was before kids...so probably closer to 4900 now. My tow vehicle is
rated for 10,000 so I'm not sweating the extra weight!
I use (and have used for 20+ years with good sucess) Goodyear Marathon
tires, ST225-75-R15, load range D. These tires are not quite as tall as the
original bias ply truck tires (I forget the size), but I want radials and
locally Goodyear has been the only source. I know that a lot of people swear
AT them, but I swear BY them!
Scott
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "DAVID GRYVNAK" <gryvnakd@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Scott,
> How much does your trailer weigh and what size and make tires do you
run with?
>
> Dave Gryvnak, GryvnakD@xxxxxxxxxx.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:49:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Wayne A. Moore" <wam52@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
Hi Gang,
All I have to say is WOW!! You have all just taken the information circle test.
Ya know that party game where people sit in a circle and someone whispers a story
to the person next to them and when that comes back around the circle the story
isn't anything like what is started out as.
The dog story is not about dogs. It's about enforcement of unpopular by-laws and
club policies even if they don't make sense anymore. Where would the nation be if
we could just ignore the rules we don't like??
Kevin is correct about VAC parking at International! Up until last year there were
no restrictions on who could park in Vintage. We even had Vintage members who chose
to come to International in their non-vintage trailers or motor homes, just so they
could be closer to those folks that had the vintage mindset. There is and has been
a difference in the culture of the VAC membership and many regular WBCCI Units.
On the good side the most prolific of these differences appears to be a tolerance
and respect of our collective differences. The down side is, that tolerance also makes
some of us a little less likely to follow any prescribed standard we find not to our
liking.
Some of our VAC members have had a history of not playing by the club rules. In fact
there were instances at the Burlington International where this was observed and noted.
The WBCCI IBT (International Board of Trustees) have viewed these individual behaviors
as unruly and have placed the responsibility of correcting these situations on the VAC
Board and Volunteers. There was pressure to follow the rules and last year it was decided
at the last minute to make a doggy row to comply with that policy.
The club has had a canine policy for years. I suspect that when the International was 4
to 5 thousand member trailers strong, some 20 years ago, it must have been an issue that
the membership felt strongly enough about to make it policy, just like they did with
generators and handicap parking.
The Club (VAC/WBCCI) has created rules for the purposes of our collective enjoyment and a
guide to our knowledge of how our membership should conduct club business to be considered
members of the club.
It is up to all of us in the club to debate the issues and use the democratic process that
the club has in place for changing unfair and obsolete policies. The club is not dictatorship,
although it may seem like it at times depending on the officer making the demand.
In the end the club is about three things, Fun, Fellowship and Adventure!
Keep focused on good things and stay the course, change will come with time!
One more thing, The current President of the VAC, Bob Herman, will be or has issued an
informational letter with regards to International.
As the Pre-rally Camping and Parade Chair it is my responsibility to set up for these events,
the details and more will be forthcoming in Bob's letter. However I will tell you we are
meeting at the Ozark Empire Fairgrounds in Springfield on Sunday June 26 for an overnight stay
in their campground ($15). We will be lining up for the parade on June 27 at *****8:00 AM*****
for a 9:00 departure to the Main Rally Site and 10:00 AM Arrival time. I requested an earlier
parking time than in past years to ensure we have ample time to get hooked up with utilities.
In past years, we have had members go without power and water hookups for up to two days.
Unfortunately due to the 30 amp service and the canine policy, the VAC is now split into 4
groups. Thirty amp service, thirty amp service with dogs, the traditional three amp service
and three amp service with dogs. The canine areas are adjacent to the VAC areas but the 30 amp
and 3 amp areas are separated by nearly a half mile. The VAC Activities Tent is the 3 Amp area.
It is my personal opinion that these policies need to be changed for the enjoyment of all. Since
the club appears to be getting smaller, divisive policies like these only detract from the
positive experience and send the wrong message to the public and potential members about what
we think is important.
Speaking of what's important, lets get back to talking vintage trailers and
We'll See Ya, Down the Road!
Wayne A. Moore (WAM)
1st Vice President
Vintage Airstream Club
VAC/WBCCI 15116
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:19:52 EDT
From: Dillonvdill@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Thanks for the advice Scott!
My 25' cruiser is a single axle and yes, it does have a long overhang in the
rear. The axle is almost in the center of the trailer and being that it is a
park model, (no water or black water tanks) I'm going to put a water tank
in the front under the couch for better front to rear balance. BTW the Volvo
960 weighs 3,600 lbs. We are not going to be full timers and do not plan to
bring a lot of books or canned goods but do plan to weigh the trailer a few
times while we load it to keep the weight under 3,500 lbs. I've also been
thinking of getting an old Ford Fairlane with a 289 in it. Your Dodge Cummins
sounds terrific!
Vanessa
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:10:56 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] Wayne Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
Wayne,
Here's a simple (yeah, right!) solution to the problem of 4 individual areas
for VAC members.
Supply 30-amp service to ALL dog and non-dog VAC areas. Now you would be
down to just 2 parking areas.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it's my understanding that the Club took in over
$40k to the good from the Vermont Int'l Rally. True or not?
Out of $40k to the Club, how much of that would need to be spent so that
*everyone* including those with pets and without, could have 30-amp service
for the entire Int'l Rally?
Things change over time as you've alluded to below. Our trailers and our
*earned and paid for* creature comforts demand electricity - especially in
the Summer-time where July 4th is always hot no matter where in the USA you
live short of on a mountaintop.
With a country as L-A-R-G-E as the good old U S of A it is difficult to
imagine that our Club can't find an area where we wouldn't have to be split
up and parked as far away as 1/2 mile from each other. Can't they do this ?
? ?
Another issue that we've heard about here is that there will be NO bus
transportation from the trailer parking areas TO the rally (convention)
site. Is everyone supposed to just pile in lots of cars, trucks and SUVs to
the convention center? How can a "small" issue like "no bus transportation"
be overlooked this far in advance ? ? ?
How many area will non-VAC members be parked in? Three? Four? More? Will
each of these sites also then be further split up into 30-amp and 3-amp
service?
Will EACH parking area have a "doggie row?" Where are dog owners "allowed"
to take their animals to relieve themselves? Will waste containers be
provided in those "doggie row" areas so that the owners who MUST (and better
as well) pick up after their animals? I can't imagine not having frequently
emptied waste containers available in July, in Missouri where it does get
hot. I've been in Kansas in July and it was HOT so I'm not expecting much
cooling breezes short of a storm coming to pay us all a visit (which we can
do without, thank you very much!).
In short, my dogs need to know this stuff so they can tell me.
Thanks!
Tom Meeker
WBCCI 5303
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne A. Moore" <wam52@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 12:49 PM
Subject: [VAL] Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
> Hi Gang,
>
> All I have to say is WOW!! You have all just taken the information circle
> test. Ya know that party game where people sit in a circle and someone
> whispers a story to the person next to them and when that comes back
> around the circle the story isn't anything like what is started out as.
>
> The dog story is not about dogs. It's about enforcement of unpopular
> by-laws and club policies even if they don't make sense anymore. Where
> would the nation be if we could just ignore the rules we don't like??
>
> Kevin is correct about VAC parking at International! Up until last year
> there were no restrictions on who could park in Vintage. We even had
> Vintage members who chose to come to International in their non-vintage
> trailers or motor homes, just so they could be closer to those folks that
> had the vintage mindset. There is and has been a difference in the culture
> of the VAC membership and many regular WBCCI Units.
> On the good side the most prolific of these differences appears to be a
> tolerance and respect of our collective differences. The down side is,
> that tolerance also makes some of us a little less likely to follow any
> prescribed standard we find not to our liking.
>
> Some of our VAC members have had a history of not playing by the club
> rules. In fact there were instances at the Burlington International where
> this was observed and noted.
>
> The WBCCI IBT (International Board of Trustees) have viewed these
> individual behaviors as unruly and have placed the responsibility of
> correcting these situations on the VAC Board and Volunteers. There was
> pressure to follow the rules and last year it was decided at the last
> minute to make a doggy row to comply with that policy.
>
> The club has had a canine policy for years. I suspect that when the
> International was 4 to 5 thousand member trailers strong, some 20 years
> ago, it must have been an issue that the membership felt strongly enough
> about to make it policy, just like they did with generators and handicap
> parking.
>
> The Club (VAC/WBCCI) has created rules for the purposes of our collective
> enjoyment and a guide to our knowledge of how our membership should
> conduct club business to be considered members of the club.
>
> It is up to all of us in the club to debate the issues and use the
> democratic process that the club has in place for changing unfair and
> obsolete policies. The club is not dictatorship, although it may seem like
> it at times depending on the officer making the demand.
>
> In the end the club is about three things, Fun, Fellowship and Adventure!
>
> Keep focused on good things and stay the course, change will come with
> time!
>
> One more thing, The current President of the VAC, Bob Herman, will be or
> has issued an informational letter with regards to International.
>
> As the Pre-rally Camping and Parade Chair it is my responsibility to set
> up for these events, the details and more will be forthcoming in Bob's
> letter. However I will tell you we are meeting at the Ozark Empire
> Fairgrounds in Springfield on Sunday June 26 for an overnight stay in
> their campground ($15). We will be lining up for the parade on June 27 at
> *****8:00 AM***** for a 9:00 departure to the Main Rally Site and 10:00 AM
> Arrival time. I requested an earlier parking time than in past years to
> ensure we have ample time to get hooked up with utilities. In past years,
> we have had members go without power and water hookups for up to two days.
>
> Unfortunately due to the 30 amp service and the canine policy, the VAC is
> now split into 4 groups. Thirty amp service, thirty amp service with dogs,
> the traditional three amp service and three amp service with dogs. The
> canine areas are adjacent to the VAC areas but the 30 amp and 3 amp areas
> are separated by nearly a half mile. The VAC Activities Tent is the 3 Amp
> area.
>
> It is my personal opinion that these policies need to be changed for the
> enjoyment of all. Since the club appears to be getting smaller, divisive
> policies like these only detract from the positive experience and send the
> wrong message to the public and potential members about what we think is
> important.
>
> Speaking of what's important, lets get back to talking vintage trailers
> and
>
> We'll See Ya, Down the Road!
>
> Wayne A. Moore (WAM)
> 1st Vice President
> Vintage Airstream Club
> VAC/WBCCI 15116
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
> Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:13:29 -0400
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Vanessa,
I don't full time either (heck I'm only 42!) But grew up with my Airstream.
I can tell you now, while a smaller, lighter tow vehicle will "do", you will
have more "white knuckle" days than comfortable, confident days unless you
plan to stay off the interstates. In the old days when our trailers were
built, interstates were non existant or just new. The rule back then was to
never tow faster than 50mph. I have said my bit...now I will shut up! ;-)
Scott
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <Dillonvdill@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
> Thanks for the advice Scott!
> My 25' cruiser is a single axle and yes, it does have a long overhang in
the
> rear. The axle is almost in the center of the trailer and being that it
is a
> park model, (no water or black water tanks) I'm going to put a water
tank
> in the front under the couch for better front to rear balance. BTW the
Volvo
> 960 weighs 3,600 lbs. We are not going to be full timers and do not plan
to
> bring a lot of books or canned goods but do plan to weigh the trailer a
few
> times while we load it to keep the weight under 3,500 lbs. I've also been
> thinking of getting an old Ford Fairlane with a 289 in it. Your Dodge
Cummins
> sounds terrific!
> Vanessa
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:35:12 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
The last segment of the United States Interstate Highway system was finished
in 1980 in the area of Williams, Arizona - part of I-40. When Dwight
Eisenhower was in Europe during WWII he really liked the German Autobahn
system where you could go fast and do so safely. Dwight decided that we
needed that type of system here in the USA. In Germany it was Hitler who
got the Autobahn built to move troops and people quickly.
Our system of Interstates is built with a design like no other - between
every 5 mile segment there will be a 1-mile segment that can be used in time
of war as a runway for aircraft. Talk about forward thinking! Now you
know. ;)
Even with all the Interstate highways we still like to keep to the back
roads of America. It is on these back roads that you still are able to find
great places to dine on real food, not the garbage fast-food places that
predominate nearly every exit with the same foods for sale. The back roads
is where Airstream travel trailers excelled and still do as that is where
the real heart of America lies with all the quaint towns, architecture and
places to eat where you are not given your dinner in a bag.
We travel the back roads quite often if at all possible just so we can take
our own sweet time getting to where we are going this time out. The
Interstates are okay for going fast in pretty safe style but they are ugly
giants when compared to the back roads that are always calling to us to come
visit, slow down, take your time and be sure to smell all the roses while
you can.
Will any vintage Airstreamers be taking any parts of the old and famous
Route 66 or the Lincoln Highway headed to Springfield, MO? I'd love it if
you took lots and lots of pictures to share if you have the time to do so.
We have made it a point that one day in our future we will head down the
"Mother Road" and so many others that are now just a memory to lots of us.
I think it's important that we as Americans go and see where we've been so
that we have a good idea of where we want to go. ;)
Tom Meeker
WBCCI 5303
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
> Vanessa,
>
> I don't full time either (heck I'm only 42!) But grew up with my
> Airstream.
> I can tell you now, while a smaller, lighter tow vehicle will "do", you
> will
> have more "white knuckle" days than comfortable, confident days unless you
> plan to stay off the interstates. In the old days when our trailers were
> built, interstates were non existant or just new. The rule back then was
> to
> never tow faster than 50mph. I have said my bit...now I will shut up! ;-)
>
> Scott
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:05:16 -0500
From: overlander64 <overlander64@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] WBCCI International Rally/Routes to Springfield
Greetings Tom!
_________________________________________________
> Will EACH parking area have a "doggie row?" Where are dog
owners "allowed" to take their animals to relieve
themselves? Will waste containers be provided in those
"doggie row" areas so that the owners who MUST (and better
as well) pick up after their animals? I can't imagine not
having frequently emptied waste containers available in
July, in Missouri where it does get hot. I've been in
Kansas in July and it was HOT so I'm not expecting much
cooling breezes short of a storm coming to pay us all a
visit (which we can do without, thank you very much!).
>
> In short, my dogs need to know this stuff so they can tell
me.
>
>Will any vintage Airstreamers be taking any parts of the
old and famous Route 66 or the Lincoln Highway headed to
Springfield, MO? I'd love it if you took lots and lots of
pictures to share if you have the time to do so. We have
made it a point that one day in our future we will head down
the "Mother Road" and so many others that are now just a
memory to lots of us.
I think it's important that we as Americans go and see where
we've been so that we have a good idea of where we want to
go. ;)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Tom Meeker
> WBCCI 5303
_________________________________________________
Based on the years that I have been attending WBCCI
International Rallys -- since 1998. There will be large
trash dumspters strategically placed throughout the various
parking areas. Each attendee is reponsible for collecting
his/her refuse and depositing it in the dumpster. The
nearest dumpster has never been too very far from the
parking area -- my initial traveling companinion, a
Chihuahua named Dutchess wasn't litter box trained so I was
accustomed to picking up after her (1998-2002 she was
elderly by Chihuahua standards when I began Airstreaming at
12 years old) and the refuse container was never more than a
few hundred yards from the VAC parking area. My current
Chihuahuas, Precious and Little (Teddy) Bear, are puppy
pad/litter box trained so they are rarely outside of my
coach and I just dispose of their puppy pads/litter box
waste once or twice a day in the dumpster.
So far as the pet or "doggy" section is concerned, other
than the VAC, there was typically only one "doggy" or pet
section prior to this year's International. I suspect, but
cannont positively confirm that there will be a pet or
"doggy" section in the 3-AMP area and a pet or "doggy"
section in the 30-AMP section -- and the VAC will also have
its four sections as previously described. I also suspect,
but cannot confirm, that the VAC sections in both the 30-AMP
section and 3-AMP section will be as near continiguous as
possible within each of the sections (all VAC rows one after
the other with the pet area likely to be the last row).
I regard to those traveling to Springfield, I do know from
early materials received from Bob Herman, our Wagon Wheels
Caravan Leader, we will be traveling on some portions of
Route 66 -- I know that on past Wagon Wheel Caravans the
vast majority of the route has been planned around the
scenic secondary highways.
Kevin
Kevin D. Allen
WBCCI/VAC/Free Wheelers/Computer Club #6359
1964 Overlander International/1999 GMC K2500 Suburban (7400
VORTEC/4.10 Differentials)
1978 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre/1975 Cadillac Eldorado
Convertible (8.2 Liter V8/2.70 Final Drive)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:17:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: DAVID GRYVNAK <gryvnakd@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Scott,
I have a 1960 22ft Safari Land Yatch with a single axel. It weights in at 4900 # too
and I use the same tires as you do. But I've had five blowouts in the last nine years.
I'm considering going to a load range E tire if I can find one.
But my rig does not whip at all when a big truck comes by and on each of those blow
outs it ran straight as an arrow. I have a Reese equalizer hitch with two sway controlls
that I swear by. I pull our silver bullet with a Chevy Suburban 350 and have not had any
trouble.
Dave Gryvnak GryvnakD@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Scott Scheuermann <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net> wrote:
Dave,
Loaded, ready for the road my '60 Overlander tips the scales at 4700...OK,
that was before kids...so probably closer to 4900 now. My tow vehicle is
rated for 10,000 so I'm not sweating the extra weight!
I use (and have used for 20+ years with good sucess) Goodyear Marathon
tires, ST225-75-R15, load range D. These tires are not quite as tall as the
original bias ply truck tires (I forget the size), but I want radials and
locally Goodyear has been the only source. I know that a lot of people swear
AT them, but I swear BY them!
Scott
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "DAVID GRYVNAK"
> Scott,
> How much does your trailer weigh and what size and make tires do you
run with?
>
> Dave Gryvnak, GryvnakD@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Dave
GryvnakD@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Dave,
GryvnakD@xxxxxxxxxx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with Airstream
Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:07:31 -0500
From: Gerald <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
On Mon, 2005-04-18 at 14:35 -0400, Tom wrote:
<SNIP>
> Even with all the Interstate highways we still like to keep to the back
> roads of America. It is on these back roads that you still are able to find
> great places to dine on real food, not the garbage fast-food places that
> predominate nearly every exit with the same foods for sale. The back roads
> is where Airstream travel trailers excelled and still do as that is where
> the real heart of America lies with all the quaint towns, architecture and
> places to eat where you are not given your dinner in a bag.
>
> We travel the back roads quite often if at all possible just so we can take
> our own sweet time getting to where we are going this time out. The
> Interstates are okay for going fast in pretty safe style but they are ugly
> giants when compared to the back roads that are always calling to us to come
> visit, slow down, take your time and be sure to smell all the roses while
> you can.
AMEN to back roads. Even when I'm in a hurry and without Airstream I'm
not in as big a hurry as the semis on the interstates.
One time I started out from home with this set of rules:
1. go east to pavement.
2. go north to the first paved road going east unless that's interstate,
then go to the next paved road.
3. go east to the second paved road going north unless that's
interstate, then go to the next paved road.
4. ignore these jogs in towns, plan to pass through towns taking marked
county or state roads, not every other city street.
5. go to #2.
I've done that sequence in other directions too. Gets a different place
from each new starting point. It can get messed up when a state highway
turns into interstate, or a paved county road turns to gravel.
There's no need to follow these rules to the letter if there's a need
for fuel or groceries and there's not a town in sight. There might be a
need to fuel more often if the fuel is less common, like diesel.
>
> Will any vintage Airstreamers be taking any parts of the old and famous
> Route 66 or the Lincoln Highway headed to Springfield, MO? I'd love it if
> you took lots and lots of pictures to share if you have the time to do so.
> We have made it a point that one day in our future we will head down the
> "Mother Road" and so many others that are now just a memory to lots of us.
> I think it's important that we as Americans go and see where we've been so
> that we have a good idea of where we want to go. ;)
I-44 has swallowed or paved over some parts of US-66 between St. Louis
and Springfield. Though some parts of US-66 do exist yet. I see one of
the Caravans plans to travel them as much as possible.
Most roads to Springfield except for I-44 are very scenic though a few
in SW Missouri get excessively scenic where you can check your tail
lights through the tow vehicle windshield on curves. Missouri 90 between
Washburn and Noel comes to mind. I drove it two summers ago with Caravel
in two. Missouri 248 between Cassville and US 160 was another. Fine for
not being in a hurry. Many Missouri highways south of I-44 and west of
I-55 will have mostly scenic drives and few will be straight enough to
land a Piper Cub on, much less be straight for a mile! Some like 32 or
34 or 51 or 8 would be 25% shorter if straight between their end points.
The main industry in southern Missouri is lumbering. When entering a
corner and you see where duals have been sliding, take that as a hint to
slow down. Its probably where a lightly loaded log truck (semi) has
discovered he's going too fast and locked up the trailer brakes. You get
the hint a trailer length sooner if you notice those marks.
>
> Tom Meeker
> WBCCI 5303
- --
Gerald J.
Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer
WBCCI #5623, VAC
All content copyright.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:21:25 -0500
From: Gerald <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wayne Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
On Mon, 2005-04-18 at 14:10 -0400, Tom wrote:
> Wayne,
>
> Here's a simple (yeah, right!) solution to the problem of 4 individual areas
> for VAC members.
>
> Supply 30-amp service to ALL dog and non-dog VAC areas. Now you would be
> down to just 2 parking areas.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong but it's my understanding that the Club took in over
> $40k to the good from the Vermont Int'l Rally. True or not?
The charge as I recall is $125 per unit. So $40K should supply 320
spots, if that $125 amortizes the cost in one year. 160 if that
amortization takes two years, etc. I suspect the materials cost a lot
more and are expected to be reused over decades, so that $40K may not go
far. I did the wiring specifications for a county campground with 43
spots getting 50 amps 240 volts to each place a couple years ago. My
estimate was about $25K and that was getting three separate power feeds.
Running the place off one power feed took a main panel that cost $25K
and a semi load of 4/0 copper cable to keep the voltage drops in reason.
With only one power feed, the most distant 50 amp services could be used
2 at a time on that 4/0 copper cable to keep the voltage drop
acceptable. Trenching was a significant cost though electrical panels to
do it safely were also a great cost.
>
> Out of $40k to the Club, how much of that would need to be spent so that
> *everyone* including those with pets and without, could have 30-amp service
> for the entire Int'l Rally?
>
> Things change over time as you've alluded to below. Our trailers and our
> *earned and paid for* creature comforts demand electricity - especially in
> the Summer-time where July 4th is always hot no matter where in the USA you
> live short of on a mountaintop.
>
> With a country as L-A-R-G-E as the good old U S of A it is difficult to
> imagine that our Club can't find an area where we wouldn't have to be split
> up and parked as far away as 1/2 mile from each other. Can't they do this ?
> ? ?
You could volunteer to help that search...
>
> Another issue that we've heard about here is that there will be NO bus
> transportation from the trailer parking areas TO the rally (convention)
> site. Is everyone supposed to just pile in lots of cars, trucks and SUVs to
> the convention center? How can a "small" issue like "no bus transportation"
> be overlooked this far in advance ? ? ?
The official word in the BB is that normally they would rent school
buses for that transportation. Apparently in Missouri that is against
the law, "Adults can't ride in school buses." And municipal buses rent
for a whole lot more. My guess is that the response from the
Airstreamers will be that the downtown activities will be very lightly
attended and there will be crowds of bored attendees milling about the
camp ground looking for inspired things to do. Probably to the point
that the statistics will hint that the off campground activities should
be dropped. All because of a lack of transportation. Think of the
congestion of 8000 tow vehicles getting on and off the campgrounds at
rush hours... when it could be 100 buss trips instead.
>
> How many area will non-VAC members be parked in? Three? Four? More? Will
> each of these sites also then be further split up into 30-amp and 3-amp
> service?
Maps will be on the WBCCI web page soon I read this morning and I
presume will be in the next BB.
>
> Will EACH parking area have a "doggie row?" Where are dog owners "allowed"
> to take their animals to relieve themselves? Will waste containers be
> provided in those "doggie row" areas so that the owners who MUST (and better
> as well) pick up after their animals? I can't imagine not having frequently
> emptied waste containers available in July, in Missouri where it does get
> hot. I've been in Kansas in July and it was HOT so I'm not expecting much
> cooling breezes short of a storm coming to pay us all a visit (which we can
> do without, thank you very much!).
>
> In short, my dogs need to know this stuff so they can tell me.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Tom Meeker
> WBCCI 5303
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:00:35 -0400
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Tom, now that's a thought...route 66 to International. That might actually
work for me!
Scott Scheuermann
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
> ...Will any vintage Airstreamers be taking any parts of the old and famous
> Route 66 or the Lincoln Highway headed to Springfield, MO? I'd love it if
> you took lots and lots of pictures to share if you have the time to do
so...
> Tom Meeker
> WBCCI 5303
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:06:39 -0400
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
David, those extra 4 feet make all the difference if you want to use a
lightweight (economical) tow vehicle. No difference at all if you get a
heavyweight like the Suburban or a full-sized pickup.
As for the tires, at one time Goodyear did have a Load range E, but no
longer. I have heard that there is a company out there with "E's", but don't
remember who.
With your trailer being 4 feet shorter and still weigh the same as mine I
have to wonder what all you have packed in there!
Scott
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "DAVID GRYVNAK" <gryvnakd@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
> Scott,
> I have a 1960 22ft Safari Land Yatch with a single axel. It weights
in at 4900 # too and I use the same tires as you do. But I've had five
blowouts in the last nine years. I'm considering going to a load range E
tire if I can find one.
> But my rig does not whip at all when a big truck comes by and on each
of those blow outs it ran straight as an arrow. I have a Reese equalizer
hitch with two sway controlls that I swear by. I pull our silver bullet
with a Chevy Suburban 350 and have not had any trouble.
>
> Dave Gryvnak GryvnakD@xxxxxxxxxx.com
>
> Scott Scheuermann <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net> wrote:
> Dave,
>
> Loaded, ready for the road my '60 Overlander tips the scales at 4700...OK,
> that was before kids...so probably closer to 4900 now. My tow vehicle is
> rated for 10,000 so I'm not sweating the extra weight!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:14:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: DAVID GRYVNAK <gryvnakd@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Scott
You'll have to ask my wife about what all we have packed in there, if you know what I mean.
Thanks for the info.
Dave
Scott Scheuermann <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net> wrote:
David, those extra 4 feet make all the difference if you want to use a
lightweight (economical) tow vehicle. No difference at all if you get a
heavyweight like the Suburban or a full-sized pickup.
As for the tires, at one time Goodyear did have a Load range E, but no
longer. I have heard that there is a company out there with "E's", but don't
remember who.
With your trailer being 4 feet shorter and still weigh the same as mine I
have to wonder what all you have packed in there!
Scott
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "DAVID GRYVNAK"
To:
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
> Scott,
> I have a 1960 22ft Safari Land Yatch with a single axel. It weights
in at 4900 # too and I use the same tires as you do. But I've had five
blowouts in the last nine years. I'm considering going to a load range E
tire if I can find one.
> But my rig does not whip at all when a big truck comes by and on each
of those blow outs it ran straight as an arrow. I have a Reese equalizer
hitch with two sway controlls that I swear by. I pull our silver bullet
with a Chevy Suburban 350 and have not had any trouble.
>
> Dave Gryvnak GryvnakD@xxxxxxxxxx.com
>
> Scott Scheuermann wrote:
> Dave,
>
> Loaded, ready for the road my '60 Overlander tips the scales at 4700...OK,
> that was before kids...so probably closer to 4900 now. My tow vehicle is
> rated for 10,000 so I'm not sweating the extra weight!
Dave
GryvnakD@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Dave,
GryvnakD@xxxxxxxxxx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
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Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:59:58 -0700
From: "Gary Quamen" <g_quamen@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
> As for the tires, at one time Goodyear did have a Load range E, but no
> longer. I have heard that there is a company out there with "E's", but
don't
> remember who.
Scott & Dave:
I know a guy that refurbished his Cruiser a recently and put load range E
tires on it. It is a pretty big trailer to be a single axle for sure.
Interestingly, he had the new tires installed on the original split rims.
He couldn't understand why I questioned that.
I will try to recall what brand the tires were. I have a picture of one of
them. Maybe I can read it. Otherwise I will have to track this guy down in
Nevada. May take some time if that's the case, but I'll try.
GQ '67 Safari
4082 in CA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 15:49:07 -0700
From: "Gary Quamen" <g_quamen@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
> > As for the tires, at one time Goodyear did have a Load range E, but no
> > longer. I have heard that there is a company out there with "E's", but
> don't
> > remember who.
>
> Scott & Dave:
>
> I will try to recall what brand the tires were. I have a picture of one
of
> them. Maybe I can read it
OK, I found the picture and it is of a Nankang 700 x 15 Light Truck 10 Ply
Rated. Can't say where he got them though. Hope this helps.
GQ '67 Safari
4082 in CA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:11:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: DAVID GRYVNAK <gryvnakd@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Gary, thanks I'll try to run them down. I'm told that Carlsile also has E rated tires.
Dave Gryvnak GryvnakD@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Gary Quamen <g_quamen@xxxxxxxxxx.net> wrote:
> > As for the tires, at one time Goodyear did have a Load range E, but no
> > longer. I have heard that there is a company out there with "E's", but
> don't
> > remember who.
>
> Scott & Dave:
>
> I will try to recall what brand the tires were. I have a picture of one
of
> them. Maybe I can read it
OK, I found the picture and it is of a Nankang 700 x 15 Light Truck 10 Ply
Rated. Can't say where he got them though. Hope this helps.
GQ '67 Safari
4082 in CA
Dave
GryvnakD@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Dave,
GryvnakD@xxxxxxxxxx.com
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
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Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 19:13:33 -0700
From: William Kerfoot <wkerfoot@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wayne Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
Lets see, for each unit you need a space at least 50' long (30' trailer
and 20' tow vehicle or 35' motorhome and 15' toad) and a space 20' wide
or 1000 SF. Double this to have drive aisle space and that would be
2000 SF per attendee. 1300 attendees would be 2,600,000 SF or 60
acres. In addition you need a conference building which will hold 2600
people. So I would guess that a 100 acre site should work. You also
need electricity, at 30 amps per vehicle only 39,000 amps (Dr. Johnson
can tell us how to set that up), water and sewer hookups.
Any guess as to how many locations in the contiguous 48 states have
these facilities available? I would think not many.
Bill Kerfoot
WBCCI/VAC #5223
1973 Dodge W200 PowerWagon
1977 Lincoln Continental
1979 23' Airstream Safari
and soon a 1954 double door Liner
Orange, CA
http://www.tompatterson.com/gallery/Bill-Beth-1979-Safari
Tom wrote:
> With a country as L-A-R-G-E as the good old U S of A it is difficult
> to imagine that our Club can't find an area where we wouldn't have to
> be split up and parked as far away as 1/2 mile from each other. Can't
> they do this ? ? ?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:33:12 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wayne Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
Sounds reasonable to me.
Tom
WBCCI 5303
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "William Kerfoot" <wkerfoot@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wayne Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
> Lets see, for each unit you need a space at least 50' long (30' trailer
> and 20' tow vehicle or 35' motorhome and 15' toad) and a space 20' wide or
> 1000 SF. Double this to have drive aisle space and that would be 2000 SF
> per attendee. 1300 attendees would be 2,600,000 SF or 60 acres. In
> addition you need a conference building which will hold 2600 people. So I
> would guess that a 100 acre site should work. You also need electricity,
> at 30 amps per vehicle only 39,000 amps (Dr. Johnson can tell us how to
> set that up), water and sewer hookups.
>
> Any guess as to how many locations in the contiguous 48 states have these
> facilities available? I would think not many.
>
> Bill Kerfoot
> WBCCI/VAC #5223
> 1973 Dodge W200 PowerWagon
> 1977 Lincoln Continental
> 1979 23' Airstream Safari
> and soon a 1954 double door Liner
> Orange, CA
>
> http://www.tompatterson.com/gallery/Bill-Beth-1979-Safari
>
>
>
> Tom wrote:
>
>> With a country as L-A-R-G-E as the good old U S of A it is difficult to
>> imagine that our Club can't find an area where we wouldn't have to be
>> split up and parked as far away as 1/2 mile from each other. Can't they
>> do this ? ? ?
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
> Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 19:45:27 -0700
From: "ilyssa exley" <ilyssaexley@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] I need help!
Hi, I'm Ilyssa. I need to sell my mother's 1967 Ambassador International
(26'), but I have no idea of it's value. I haven't a picture yet but here's
what I know: the furnace and 'Dometic' fridge installed in 1998 and used
approx. 5 times, original turquoise stove (in working order), original
mahogany wood paneling (in excellent condition), couch/double bed replaced
by futon with custom fit cover (really comfy), holding tank is cracked,
exterior needs a good polish but is free of major dents/scratches. Whew!
I thought this would be a good place to start. thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:53:46 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] I need help!
Hi ilyssa,
Nice to see you here and I'm sure you have loads of help answering your
questions.
Where is this trailer located, what city/state for starters? How soon
before you can get some pictures? The owner of this email list who goes by
the name of 'Tom Patterson' can help you upload pictures for people to view.
Where have you looked besides this group for information on this Airstream
trailer on the Internet so far?
Tom Meeker
WBCCI 5303
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "ilyssa exley" <ilyssaexley@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 10:45 PM
Subject: [VAL] I need help!
> Hi, I'm Ilyssa. I need to sell my mother's 1967 Ambassador International
> (26'), but I have no idea of it's value. I haven't a picture yet but
> here's what I know: the furnace and 'Dometic' fridge installed in 1998
> and used approx. 5 times, original turquoise stove (in working order),
> original mahogany wood paneling (in excellent condition), couch/double bed
> replaced by futon with custom fit cover (really comfy), holding tank is
> cracked, exterior needs a good polish but is free of major
> dents/scratches. Whew! I thought this would be a good place to start.
> thanks!
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
> Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:56:47 -0500
From: Mike Keith <mkeith@1pcplace.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wayne Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
At 09:13 PM 4/18/2005, you wrote:
>Lets see, for each unit you need a space at least 50' long (30' trailer
>and 20' tow vehicle or 35' motorhome and 15' toad) and a space 20' wide or
>1000 SF. Double this to have drive aisle space and that would be 2000 SF
>per attendee. 1300 attendees would be 2,600,000 SF or 60 acres. In
>addition you need a conference building which will hold 2600 people. So I
>would guess that a 100 acre site should work. You also need electricity,
>at 30 amps per vehicle only 39,000 amps (Dr. Johnson can tell us how to
>set that up), water and sewer hookups.
>
>Any guess as to how many locations in the contiguous 48 states have these
>facilities available? I would think not many.
Actually I can come up with one just 50 miles North of Springfield, the
state fair grounds in Sedila, MO. Bill Thomas holds a rally there every
other year and there is loads of room and meeting places on site to boot.
Mike
Mike and Marianne Keith
WBCCI 4503, Grater St Louis 3rd VP
New Florence, MO
75 Argosy 26' center twin rear bath
96 Ford F-250 Powerstroke
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:05:10 -0700
From: "ilyssa exley" <ilyssaexley@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] I need help!
hi tom,
thanks for the welcome. The trailer is in northern California and pictures
may be about a week out.
Are there other details I need to know about the trailer (when detailing
it's haves and have nots)?
ilyssa
>From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
>Reply-To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
>To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
>Subject: Re: [VAL] I need help!
>Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:53:46 -0400
>
>Hi ilyssa,
>
>Nice to see you here and I'm sure you have loads of help answering
>your questions.
>
>Where is this trailer located, what city/state for starters? How
>soon before you can get some pictures? The owner of this email list
>who goes by the name of 'Tom Patterson' can help you upload pictures
>for people to view.
>
>Where have you looked besides this group for information on this
>Airstream trailer on the Internet so far?
>
>Tom Meeker
>WBCCI 5303
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "ilyssa exley"
><ilyssaexley@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
>To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
>Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 10:45 PM
>Subject: [VAL] I need help!
>
>
>>Hi, I'm Ilyssa. I need to sell my mother's 1967 Ambassador
>>International (26'), but I have no idea of it's value. I haven't a
>>picture yet but here's what I know: the furnace and 'Dometic'
>>fridge installed in 1998 and used approx. 5 times, original
>>turquoise stove (in working order), original mahogany wood paneling
>>(in excellent condition), couch/double bed replaced by futon with
>>custom fit cover (really comfy), holding tank is cracked, exterior
>>needs a good polish but is free of major dents/scratches. Whew!
>>I thought this would be a good place to start. thanks!
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>>This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
>>Airstream
>>Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>>
>>When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original
>>text
>>
>>To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>>http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
>Airstream
>Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
>When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original
>text
>
>To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 23:26:13 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] Scott S re: the Mother Road and Economical Tow Vehicles
That would certainly be a trip to remember, Scott. Taking the Mother Road
to the 50th Annual WBCCI International Rally - what could top that in your
lifetime? Route 66 has a fan club, thank God, and those fans are committed
to seeing that this highway remains alive and kicking. ;) You or I won't be
around most likely for the 100th Annual WBCCI International Rally but you
never know about those things and we are living longer so I'm told. Here's
to the 100th WBCCI International Rally! ;)) Hope to see you there, too.
If you do want to give some thought to taking the old Route 66 with your
vintage Airstream I bet you sure could have a wonderful Unit display,
Scott. If you have a digital camera along and a printer or know where a
Kinko's is or a Sam's Club or a Wal*Mart with a photo counter it would be
easy as pie to have pictures of your trip down memory lane to display to the
other members.
If you really pulled this off Scott, I bet your board would get lots of
attention at the Rally and who knows, you may just win First Place. Any
loot you win though you'd have to give me a cut of though, just a small
token would be plenty! ;))))) Man, I hope you do it!
Tom Meeker
WBCCI 5303
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
> Tom, now that's a thought...route 66 to International. That might actually
> work for me!
>
> Scott Scheuermann
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
>> ...Will any vintage Airstreamers be taking any parts of the old and
>> famous
>> Route 66 or the Lincoln Highway headed to Springfield, MO? I'd love it
>> if
>> you took lots and lots of pictures to share if you have the time to do
> so...
>> Tom Meeker
>> WBCCI 5303
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
> Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 23:45:02 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Economical Tow Vehicles
Dave,
We have a 1969 29' International Ambassador. I recall something about the
weight of the trailer being about 5500 pounds I believe. That old trailer
pulled very easy. Years ago I put on Goodyear Marathon trailer tires but
we've had that trailer parked now for well over a dozen years, maybe more as
we use our 1995 34' Airstream Classic FK nowadays.
If you don't do anything else when you replace your tires do this - use
STEEL stems for your tire valves, the kind that use a nut to hold them in
place.
Rubber tire stems have a 65 psi rating (read that somewhere,maybe here)
which is NOT safe. There are NO rules that say you have to use a rubber
tire stem so why not pay the extra $1.00 or so that they'd cost over using
cheaper rubber stems that might blow out.
IF a rubber tire stem blows out of a wheel and the resulting damage from an
instantaneous blowout damages your trailer to the tune of $2,000.00 minimum
considering sheet metal, labor, wheel well repairs, etc. you will know you
should have spent the extra pocket change for those STEEL tire stems.
I truly believe that a lot of blowouts on travel trailers and other types of
trailers are due to rapid loss of air pressure resulting in super heating of
the tire carcass which then begins to fly apart. If you've seen tires on
race cars come apart then you've seen rapid loss of air pressure resulting
in tire shredding. And those fenders on those race cars? That could be
your Airstream sheet metal doing the same thing.
Ask anyone who's ever had a blown tire pointed out to them by passing
motorist if they felt a thing - most never do unless you are in a tunnel and
you are the only vehicle around to hear the explosion.
I would advise everyone to install STEEL tire stems - no matter the load you
carry in your trailers or how heavy or light your small to big trailers are
in size. One big pot-hole can cause enough of a jolt to increase the tire
pressure beyond that 65 psi threshold of rubber tire stems. A word to the
wise they say ...
Tom Meeker
WBCCI 5303
From: "DAVID GRYVNAK" <gryvnakd@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Scott,
> I have a 1960 22ft Safari Land Yatch with a single axel. It weights in
> at 4900 # too and I use the same tires as you do. But I've had five
> blowouts in the last nine years. I'm considering going to a load range E
> tire if I can find one.
> But my rig does not whip at all when a big truck comes by and on each
> of those blow outs it ran straight as an arrow. I have a Reese equalizer
> hitch with two sway controlls that I swear by. I pull our silver bullet
> with a Chevy Suburban 350 and have not had any trouble.
>
> Dave Gryvnak GryvnakD@xxxxxxxxxx.com
>
> Scott Scheuermann <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net> wrote:
> Dave,
>
> Loaded, ready for the road my '60 Overlander tips the scales at 4700...OK,
> that was before kids...so probably closer to 4900 now. My tow vehicle is
> rated for 10,000 so I'm not sweating the extra weight!
>
> I use (and have used for 20+ years with good sucess) Goodyear Marathon
> tires, ST225-75-R15, load range D. These tires are not quite as tall as
> the
> original bias ply truck tires (I forget the size), but I want radials and
> locally Goodyear has been the only source. I know that a lot of people
> swear
> AT them, but I swear BY them!
>
> Scott
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 23:50:36 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wayne Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
Well, there you go! ;))))
Tom Meeker
WBCCI 5303
From: "Mike Keith" <mkeith@1pcplace.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wayne Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
> At 09:13 PM 4/18/2005, you wrote:
>>Lets see, for each unit you need a space at least 50' long (30' trailer
>>and 20' tow vehicle or 35' motorhome and 15' toad) and a space 20' wide or
>>1000 SF. Double this to have drive aisle space and that would be 2000 SF
>>per attendee. 1300 attendees would be 2,600,000 SF or 60 acres. In
>>addition you need a conference building which will hold 2600 people. So I
>>would guess that a 100 acre site should work. You also need electricity,
>>at 30 amps per vehicle only 39,000 amps (Dr. Johnson can tell us how to
>>set that up), water and sewer hookups.
>>
>>Any guess as to how many locations in the contiguous 48 states have these
>>facilities available? I would think not many.
>
> Actually I can come up with one just 50 miles North of Springfield, the
> state fair grounds in Sedila, MO. Bill Thomas holds a rally there every
> other year and there is loads of room and meeting places on site to boot.
>
>
> Mike
>
> Mike and Marianne Keith
> WBCCI 4503, Grater St Louis 3rd VP
> New Florence, MO
> 75 Argosy 26' center twin rear bath
> 96 Ford F-250 Powerstroke
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
> Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 23:51:32 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] I need help!
ilyssa,
From: "ilyssa exley" <ilyssaexley@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] I need help!
> hi tom,
> thanks for the welcome. The trailer is in northern California and
> pictures may be about a week out.
> Are there other details I need to know about the trailer (when detailing
> it's haves and have nots)?
> ilyssa
>
> >From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
> >Reply-To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> >To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> >Subject: Re: [VAL] I need help!
> >Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:53:46 -0400
> >
> >Hi ilyssa,
> >
> >Nice to see you here and I'm sure you have loads of help answering
> >your questions.
> >
> >Where is this trailer located, what city/state for starters? How
> >soon before you can get some pictures? The owner of this email list
> >who goes by the name of 'Tom Patterson' can help you upload pictures
> >for people to view.
> >
> >Where have you looked besides this group for information on this
> >Airstream trailer on the Internet so far?
> >
> >Tom Meeker
> >WBCCI 5303
> >
> >----- Original Message ----- From: "ilyssa exley"
> ><ilyssaexley@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> >To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> >Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 10:45 PM
> >Subject: [VAL] I need help!
> >
> >
> >>Hi, I'm Ilyssa. I need to sell my mother's 1967 Ambassador
> >>International (26'), but I have no idea of it's value. I haven't
> a
> >>picture yet but here's what I know: the furnace and 'Dometic'
> >>fridge installed in 1998 and used approx. 5 times, original
> >>turquoise stove (in working order), original mahogany wood
> paneling
> >>(in excellent condition), couch/double bed replaced by futon with
> >>custom fit cover (really comfy), holding tank is cracked, exterior
> >>needs a good polish but is free of major dents/scratches. Whew!
> >>I thought this would be a good place to start. thanks!
> >>
> >>-----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
> >>Airstream
> >>Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
> >>
> >>When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original
> >>text
> >>
> >>To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> >>http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
> >
> >-----------------------------------------------------------------
> >This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
> >Airstream
> >Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
> >
> >When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original
> >text
> >
> >To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> >http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
> >
> >
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
> Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 00:02:50 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] I need help!
ilyssa,
just for starters you may want to make sure that you are only sending your
messages in "plain text" as the HTML stuff just screws up your replies. I
removed the older first post from you because of that.
there are plenty of good people in California who can tell you a lot more
about what you need to do with that vintage Airstream if in fact you need to
do anything at all.
one thing I would say to you is this: For the time-being do not change
anything at all. Period.
Why? Because you might depreciate the value your older Airstream has earned
in it's old age. Sort of like you don't want to strip and redo antiques if
you are not in the business of knowing what will make you money or what will
now cost you dearly because you didn't know what you were doing in the first
place.
there is no doubt that this old Airstream is worth something - what that
something is can be found out by people in the business of examining old
Airstream travel trailers.
I believe one of those people to get in contact with via this list is J R
Dial, that's his name I believe and someone please correct me if I'm wrong
here. You will need to work with honest people and please, do NOT let any
emotions get in the way of a good business decision if you have firmly
decided to sell this old trailer. Be very aware that some would take
advantage of you not knowing a thing about these old trailers - and that is
why I'm saying to you now that you need to work with someone who knows the
business and is honest and has your best interest at heart.
You will find some of those trustworthy individuals in the business on this
list - it's a great place to start your search into finding out just how
much "value" others would pay you for this old Airstream. Don't be in a
rush to sell this Airstream until you are totally satisfied that you know
you are doing what's best, for you and your mother.
- -
- ---- Original Message -----
From: "ilyssa exley" <ilyssaexley@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] I need help!
> hi tom,
> thanks for the welcome. The trailer is in northern California and
> pictures may be about a week out.
> Are there other details I need to know about the trailer (when detailing
> it's haves and have nots)?
> ilyssa
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:20:15 -0500
From: Gerald <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wayne Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
On Mon, 2005-04-18 at 19:13 -0700, William Kerfoot wrote:
<SNIP>
> 1300 attendees would be 2,600,000 SF or 60
> acres.
<SNIP>
> You also
> need electricity, at 30 amps per vehicle only 39,000 amps (Dr. Johnson
> can tell us how to set that up), water and sewer hookups.
<SNIP>
Fortunately you can count on diversity of loads and probably need only
supply 10,000 amps peak. Or for 3 amps per trailer, only 1000 amps peak.
Wire those 120 volt loads on a 240 volt circuit and you can cut the wire
size in half at the cost of an extra conductor. So you need four wires
instead of three. So 5000 amps at 240 volts. In my design for the county
park, I used three transformers rated at 50 KVA each, fed by the REC's
7200 volts. That way each main was only 1000 or 1500 amps, and didn't
need an expensive industrial grade outdoor main panel. And so I'd do
that for the 5000 amps needed at 240 volts, use say 5 transformers ,
each rated at 250KVA and mains. And a whole lot of sturdy wire. Power
companies don't like to supply multiple transformers for one premises
even if it is spread out. And they like it less for a two week run. They
also don't like to sell power at primary voltage so the customer can own
the transformers. Transformers I can rent, wire to be cut that has to be
used over at the same (or shorter) lengths for years to pay out.
I recall one gathering in Ames where instead of power lines from the
local utility, there were quiet miniturbines running on some liquid or
gas fuel distributed about the landscape. WBCCI has been here, as well
as similar rallies for other brands. The one that brought the county
park to its knees was a gathering of motor homes each with two 50 amp
plugs. After tripping the single transformer's overload repeatedly, it
blew up. Still the loads pulled hard on the twice sized replacement and
the voltage distant from the service entrance was down about 80 volts
which probably fried a few air conditioners. And this was just a bit of
the overflow from the main gathering which was on the parking lot at
Iowa State University between the football field and the coliseum.
Water gets run as I read by a Y at each trailer's hose each trailer
owner supplying enough hose to reach past his "pad." No sewer hookups,
just a traveling pumper truck of two emptying holding tanks as needed. I
read where last year they dumped into a designated manhole that turned
out to be a storm sewer instead of sanitary sewer... OOPS! Manhole
covers also sometimes cover electric and steam power lines.
- --
Gerald J.
Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer
WBCCI #5623, VAC
All content copyright.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 00:36:32 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wayne Re: Vintage Airstream Club International
What a fiasco! LOL !!!
Fried a few air conditioners, dumped raw sewage into a manhole cover opening
on top of what probably was electric or steam power lines ...
I bet the County hasn't had those people back again - not that they'd even
want to come back again after they "brought the county park to its knees ...
" :)
You get the award for the funniest post tonight, Dr G. ;))))))
Tom Meeker - who was "thinking" that power to a group of Airstreamers could
be supplied by some *rental generator trucks* instead. Can't that be done?
From: "Gerald" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
The one that brought the county
> park to its knees was a gathering of motor homes each with two 50 amp
> plugs. After tripping the single transformer's overload repeatedly, it
> blew up. Still the loads pulled hard on the twice sized replacement and
> the voltage distant from the service entrance was down about 80 volts
> which probably fried a few air conditioners.
>
No sewer hookups,
> just a traveling pumper truck of two emptying holding tanks as needed. I
> read where last year they dumped into a designated manhole that turned
> out to be a storm sewer instead of sanitary sewer... OOPS! Manhole
> covers also sometimes cover electric and steam power lines.
> --
> Gerald J.
------------------------------
End of VAL Digest V2 #222
*************************
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