The Vintage Airstream E-mail ListDigest Archive Files
VAL Digest V2 #211
VAL Digest Friday, April 8 2005 Volume 02 : Number 211
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Topics in Today's Digest:
Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in OH
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V2 #210
Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V2 #210
RE: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V2 #210
Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in OH
Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in OH
[VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in OH
Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in OH
Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
RE: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in OH
Re: [VAL] Gauge or thickness of 1972 airstream globetrotter aluminum skin
Re: [VAL] Gauge or thickness of 1972 airstream globetrotter aluminum skin
Re: [VAL] Gauge or thickness of 1972 airstream globetrotter aluminum skin
Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in OH
Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V2 #210
Re: [VAL] Gauge or thickness of 1972 airstream globetrotter aluminum skin
Re: [VAL] Gauge or thickness of 1972 airstream globetrotter aluminum skin
RE: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
[VAL] Piezo-electric starters for vintage waterheaters? I think so!
Re: [VAL] water inlet
Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
Re: [VAL] Piezo-electric starters for vintage waterheaters? I think so!
Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in Jackson Center Ohio 2005
Re: [VAL] water inlet
Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
Re: [VAL] Piezo-electric starters for vintage waterheaters? I think so!
Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in OH
Re: [VAL] Piezo-electric starters for vintage waterheaters? I think so!
RE: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
Re: [VAL] Gauge or thickness of 1972 airstream globetrotter aluminum skin
Re: [VAL] Piezo-electric?
Re: [VAL] water inlet
[VAL] Pictures of 1st Homecoming 2004 - Are there any?
[VAL] Aistream factory aerial view? URL link here
Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 07:31:29 -0400
From: Bob Patterson <bpatt@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in OH
Looks like "The Troubadours" will be back at the Homecoming too....they
were fantastic last time...hope the car show is on too!
http://www.unhitched.com/tour_news.php?id=82
Be sure to visit the bicycle museum down the road. It's in New Bremen, a
neat town resurrected by Crown Industries, complete with a restored vintage
movie theater.
Bob Patterson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:31:36 EDT
From: MISSARPAUL@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V2 #210
In a message dated 4/7/05 2:00:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com writes:
Subject: [VAL] Bowen heater valve issues.
Glyn
Sounds like you heated the thermocouple with a match and got it hot enough
to turn on the main burner, you then took away the heat from the thermocouple,
it cooled and main burner went out due to unit sensing no pilot light. I'd
replace the thermocouple first then retry.
Good Luck
Paul
Troy MI (replacing Bowen water heater next week in 1978 Tradewind)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 06:47:51 -0700
From: Glyn Judson <glynjudson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V2 #210
Troy,
I think you might be on to something there. In fact, I was using a
propane torch that certainly would have provided more than enough flame to
heat the thermocouple. But if that were the case, why shouldn't it light
and stay lit as well as the main burner. Wouldn't that suggest that the
thermocouple is operating? Plugged gas line maybe in that small tube? Any
experience / ideas as to how to clear a possible blockage?
Thanks for your thoughts,
Glyn
> From: MISSARPAUL@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Reply-To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:31:36 EDT
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V2 #210
>
> In a message dated 4/7/05 2:00:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com writes:
>
> Subject: [VAL] Bowen heater valve issues.
>
>
>
> Glyn
> Sounds like you heated the thermocouple with a match and got it hot enough
> to turn on the main burner, you then took away the heat from the
> thermocouple,
> it cooled and main burner went out due to unit sensing no pilot light. I'd
> replace the thermocouple first then retry.
> Good Luck
> Paul
> Troy MI (replacing Bowen water heater next week in 1978 Tradewind)
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:17:32 -0500
From: "David Tidmore" <dtidmore@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V2 #210
Make sure that the pilot light has not rusted closed. Water vapor is a
byproduct of burning propane/butane and over time that can cause rust to
form. I would remove the pilot light tube and assembly and clean it out
with a fine wire. If it is rusted completely shut, you may have to use a
small drill bit, twisted by hand, to open it. The rust should only be at
the very end. Once you can blow air thru the tube (still removed), then
replace it and see if it will light. Understand that the thermocouple only
keeps the gas to the pilot supplied once the pilot flame is present. The
thermocouple has nothing to do with the actual lighting of the pilot (that
is why you have to hold in the knob while lighting the pilot...you are
mechanically opening the gas supply to the pilot). There is a chance that
the gas valve itself is the culprit, but unlikely.
david
- -----Original Message-----
From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com [mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
On Behalf Of Glyn Judson
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 8:48 AM
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V2 #210
Troy,
I think you might be on to something there. In fact, I was using a
propane torch that certainly would have provided more than enough flame to
heat the thermocouple. But if that were the case, why shouldn't it light
and stay lit as well as the main burner. Wouldn't that suggest that the
thermocouple is operating? Plugged gas line maybe in that small tube? Any
experience / ideas as to how to clear a possible blockage?
Thanks for your thoughts,
Glyn
> From: MISSARPAUL@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Reply-To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:31:36 EDT
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V2 #210
>
> In a message dated 4/7/05 2:00:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com writes:
>
> Subject: [VAL] Bowen heater valve issues.
>
>
>
> Glyn
> Sounds like you heated the thermocouple with a match and got it hot
enough
> to turn on the main burner, you then took away the heat from the
> thermocouple,
> it cooled and main burner went out due to unit sensing no pilot light.
I'd
> replace the thermocouple first then retry.
> Good Luck
> Paul
> Troy MI (replacing Bowen water heater next week in 1978 Tradewind)
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with Airstream
Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:10:00 -0400
From: John Sellers <jsellers@spectra-research.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in OH
> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 21:57:10 -0400
> From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
> Subject: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in Jackson Center Ohio 2005
> How many people on this list have plans to be in Ohio at Jackson Center
> for the Airstream's Homecoming Festival 2005?
We'll be there! (1960 Pacer, #1587)
> Anyone know how far it is from Jackson Center, Ohio to Lansing, MI?
According to my trusty "Road Trips" intercity navigation program, it's 223 miles
by Interstate highways, but 180 miles by the most direct route (US 127). If you
are going to Lansing from Jackson Center (or vice versa) I would take the US 127
route, which avoids the Detroit metro area traffic.
> Knowing that Ohio is the "Home of Humidity" we are going to be sure to have
> the Honda EU3000is generator and plan to be very comfortable. With two 40#
> tanks of LP we should be all set.
For what it's worth, last year it was sunny and pleasantly cool--got downright
chilly at night.
> Does anyone know the arrangement for gray water tanks? Do we have to keep it
> trapped or will there be a way to get it picked up?
Seems to me they pumped tanks twice during the rally. We were parked in a big
grass field north of the factory and were cheerfully invited to drain graywater
under our trailers. When we pulled out at the end of the rally I looked to see
if I could find the spot where our graywater drained and I couldn't find it.
They have good absorbent soil there.
We had a great time at last year's Homecoming Rally. The folks at Airstream are
as friendly as can be, and you'll get plenty of chances to meet the folks that
build them. Some of the folks that built our vintage trailers are _still_
building Airstreams! We'll be looking forward to seeing all of you!
See you down the road,
John & Barbara Sellers
WBCCI/VAC #1587
1960 Pacer
Dayton, OH
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:31:31 EDT
From: BRENTJAIMES@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in OH
For those of you hwho recall, I am the St. Louis based filmmaker hoping to
make a documentary about the Airstream company, Wally Byams' personal story and
that of dedicated Airstreams who live the lifestyle he helped create.
I am interested in knowing more about the Homecoming event and possibly
attending to capture some of the stories and other history of the company but I
have been unable to find out the dates for the event. I didn't see it on the
company's site. Can someone help me out with the dates for the 2005
Homecoming event.
Thanks,
Brent Jaimes
Storyville Pictures, LLC
(314) 322-4469
www.storyville-pictures.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:54:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Courtney Gwyn <rufuscourtney@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
Hi Glyn,
Paul & David are right.
The pilot light system provides a very small flame via it's own gas supply tube.
It's only function is to heat the termocouple probe.
The thermocouple is a sensor. When it is heated it supplies a signal that allowes
the main gas supply valve to open.
The main gas supply is the thing with the temp dial etc. It will never provide
propane for the main burner unless it has been activated by a signal from the
thermocouple, telling it that there is a flame in the tube already....or a propane
torch poking around!
As Paul said. The heat from the propane probably triggered the thermocouple allowing
the main valve to open. When it cooled down, the valve closed, just as it is supposed
to.
I'll bet your pilot is OK. Mine was, I was just trying to light it in the wrong place.
C
Glyn Judson <glynjudson@xxxxxxxxxx.net> wrote:
Troy,
I think you might be on to something there. In fact, I was using a
propane torch that certainly would have provided more than enough flame to
heat the thermocouple. But if that were the case, why shouldn't it light
and stay lit as well as the main burner. Wouldn't that suggest that the
thermocouple is operating? Plugged gas line maybe in that small tube? Any
experience / ideas as to how to clear a possible blockage?
Thanks for your thoughts,
Glyn
> From: MISSARPAUL@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Reply-To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:31:36 EDT
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V2 #210
>
> In a message dated 4/7/05 2:00:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com writes:
>
> Subject: [VAL] Bowen heater valve issues.
>
>
>
> Glyn
> Sounds like you heated the thermocouple with a match and got it hot enough
> to turn on the main burner, you then took away the heat from the
> thermocouple,
> it cooled and main burner went out due to unit sensing no pilot light. I'd
> replace the thermocouple first then retry.
> Good Luck
> Paul
> Troy MI (replacing Bowen water heater next week in 1978 Tradewind)
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
- ---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with Airstream
Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:56:23 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in OH
http://www.airstream.com/airstreamer/events/homecoming.html
Brent,
Here is the URL that will answer all your questions. Let me know if I can
be of any more help to you.
Tom Meeker
WBCCI 5303
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <BRENTJAIMES@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in OH
> For those of you hwho recall, I am the St. Louis based filmmaker hoping to
> make a documentary about the Airstream company, Wally Byams' personal
> story and
> that of dedicated Airstreams who live the lifestyle he helped create.
>
> I am interested in knowing more about the Homecoming event and possibly
> attending to capture some of the stories and other history of the company
> but I
> have been unable to find out the dates for the event. I didn't see it on
> the
> company's site. Can someone help me out with the dates for the 2005
> Homecoming event.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brent Jaimes
>
> Storyville Pictures, LLC
> (314) 322-4469
> www.storyville-pictures.com
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
> Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 13:11:54 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in OH
Thank you for all of the good information, John. We look forward to being
able to put some faces to the Email names and addresses as well.
On Airstream's website
http://www.airstream.com/airstreamer/events/homecoming.html there is a load
of good information for anyone that needs to know more. ;)
One question: Airstream invites us to "ask a friend to join in the
festivities" and you can send them an Email from that URL listed above.
Does a "friend" need to own an Airstream for this
Homecoming 2005? Or, can they own an SOB?
Does anyone know? Thanks in advance.
Tom & Ann Meeker
WBCCI 5303
From: "John Sellers" <jsellers@spectra-research.com>
> > From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
>
> > How many people on this list have plans to be in Ohio at Jackson Center
> > for the Airstream's Homecoming Festival 2005?
>
> We'll be there! (1960 Pacer, #1587)
>
> > Anyone know how far it is from Jackson Center, Ohio to Lansing, MI?
>
> According to my trusty "Road Trips" intercity navigation program, it's 223
> miles by Interstate highways, but 180 miles by the most direct route (US
> 127). If you are going to Lansing from Jackson Center (or vice versa) I
> would take the US 127 route, which avoids the Detroit metro area traffic.
>
> > Knowing that Ohio is the "Home of Humidity" we are going to be sure to
> > have
> > the Honda EU3000is generator and plan to be very comfortable. With two
> > 40#
> > tanks of LP we should be all set.
>
> For what it's worth, last year it was sunny and pleasantly cool--got
> downright chilly at night.
>
> > Does anyone know the arrangement for gray water tanks? Do we have to
> > keep it
> > trapped or will there be a way to get it picked up?
>
> Seems to me they pumped tanks twice during the rally. We were parked in a
> big grass field north of the factory and were cheerfully invited to drain
> graywater under our trailers. When we pulled out at the end of the rally
> I looked to see if I could find the spot where our graywater drained and I
> couldn't find it. They have good absorbent soil there.
>
> We had a great time at last year's Homecoming Rally. The folks at
> Airstream are as friendly as can be, and you'll get plenty of chances to
> meet the folks that build them. Some of the folks that built our vintage
> trailers are _still_ building Airstreams! We'll be looking forward to
> seeing all of you!
>
> See you down the road,
>
> John & Barbara Sellers
> WBCCI/VAC #1587
> 1960 Pacer
> Dayton, OH
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:14:28 -0500
From: Dean L <dean@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
On Apr 7, 2005, at 11:54 AM, Courtney Gwyn wrote:
> The pilot light system provides a very small flame via it's own gas
> supply tube. It's only function is to heat the termocouple probe.
> a propane torch poking around!
Please be careful of the Propane Torch..
If you over heat the termocouple probe it will burn out and you will
have to replace it.
Cleaning of the jets in the pilot and main burner must be done with the
correct size.
Otherwise you may ream it out.
See your gas supply company to help you clean the jets.
They will have the correct size cleaners.
You will not find them at your local filling station but look for the
tank wagon companies.
Dean
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:25:57 -0500
From: "J. Anderson" <janderson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
Hi Courtney, isn't it true that another function of the pilot flame is
to provide a constant source of reignition for the main burner as it
cycles on in response to demand? I reqlize DSI provides this function
in some newer heaters.
John Anderson
Courtney Gwyn wrote:
>The pilot light system provides a very small flame via it's own gas supply
tube. It's only function is to heat the termocouple probe.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 10:27:30 -0700
From: Glyn Judson <glynjudson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
Dean,
Thanks for the warning concerning overusing the propane torch. I kept
that in mind yesterday and was careful not to over do it.
I'll see if I can clean the supply tube for the thermocouple today and
report back the results. Wouldn't it be ironic if that's all it ends up
being? Sure beats a $150.00 repair or a $300.00 new purchase.
Later and thanks for the ideas all of you,
Glyn
> From: Dean L <dean@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> Reply-To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:14:28 -0500
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
>
> On Apr 7, 2005, at 11:54 AM, Courtney Gwyn wrote:
>> The pilot light system provides a very small flame via it's own gas
>> supply tube. It's only function is to heat the termocouple probe.
>
>> a propane torch poking around!
>
> Please be careful of the Propane Torch..
> If you over heat the termocouple probe it will burn out and you will
> have to replace it.
> Cleaning of the jets in the pilot and main burner must be done with the
> correct size.
> Otherwise you may ream it out.
> See your gas supply company to help you clean the jets.
> They will have the correct size cleaners.
> You will not find them at your local filling station but look for the
> tank wagon companies.
> Dean
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 10:29:34 -0700
From: Glyn Judson <glynjudson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
Courtney,
I'll go out there this morning to check the small tube further. Now
that I have an idea as to how all this works (from you folks telling me), I
feel more confident looking for specific problems and solutions.
Thanks,
Glyn
> From: Courtney Gwyn <rufuscourtney@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Reply-To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:54:36 -0700 (PDT)
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
>
> Hi Glyn,
>
> Paul & David are right.
>
> The pilot light system provides a very small flame via it's own gas supply
> tube. It's only function is to heat the termocouple probe.
>
> The thermocouple is a sensor. When it is heated it supplies a signal that
> allowes the main gas supply valve to open.
>
> The main gas supply is the thing with the temp dial etc. It will never provide
> propane for the main burner unless it has been activated by a signal from the
> thermocouple, telling it that there is a flame in the tube already....or a
> propane torch poking around!
>
> As Paul said. The heat from the propane probably triggered the thermocouple
> allowing the main valve to open. When it cooled down, the valve closed, just
> as it is supposed to.
>
> I'll bet your pilot is OK. Mine was, I was just trying to light it in the
> wrong place.
>
> C
>
> Glyn Judson <glynjudson@xxxxxxxxxx.net> wrote:
> Troy,
>
> I think you might be on to something there. In fact, I was using a
> propane torch that certainly would have provided more than enough flame to
> heat the thermocouple. But if that were the case, why shouldn't it light
> and stay lit as well as the main burner. Wouldn't that suggest that the
> thermocouple is operating? Plugged gas line maybe in that small tube? Any
> experience / ideas as to how to clear a possible blockage?
>
> Thanks for your thoughts,
>
> Glyn
>
>> From: MISSARPAUL@xxxxxxxxxx.com
>> Reply-To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
>> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:31:36 EDT
>> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
>> Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V2 #210
>>
>> In a message dated 4/7/05 2:00:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com writes:
>>
>> Subject: [VAL] Bowen heater valve issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> Glyn
>> Sounds like you heated the thermocouple with a match and got it hot enough
>> to turn on the main burner, you then took away the heat from the
>> thermocouple,
>> it cooled and main burner went out due to unit sensing no pilot light. I'd
>> replace the thermocouple first then retry.
>> Good Luck
>> Paul
>> Troy MI (replacing Bowen water heater next week in 1978 Tradewind)
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with Airstream
>> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>>
>> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>>
>> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Better first dates. More second dates. Yahoo! Personals
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:54:24 -0500
From: "David Tidmore" <dtidmore@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
The pilot light does not have a jet, only the main burner. Dean, you are
correct about reaming out the main jet orifice, but it is made of brass and
therefore rust-proof. As it has already been established that the main
burner will light, there is nothing wrong with the main burner jet orifice.
On the pilot light, gas is simply passed along the tube to the thermocouple
area and allowed to burn (ie no jet to mix outside air into the gas flow).
There is either an inline flow rate adjustment (small slotted device in
pilot light line) or an equivalent on the main gas valve to set the small
gas flow rate at the pilot. If cleaning out the pilot line tube does not
work, then the pilot light adjustment valve may need to be opened and closed
a few times as it might have some trash blocking it as presently adjusted.
If you set the flow rate too low, the pilot will go out and inadequately
heat the thermocouple. If set too high, the pilot light will tend to blow
out and the hot part of the flame may well be beyond the thermocouple
location, again causing inadequate heating of the thermocouple. The ideal
setting is a small flame that just barely covers the thermocouple tip
(putting the thermocouple at the hottest part of the flame)
david
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 11:03:44 -0700
From: "Roger Hightower" <rwhigh@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in OH
I would think a telephone call to Jackson Center would clear that up.
Roger
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in OH
> Thank you for all of the good information, John. We look forward to being
> able to put some faces to the Email names and addresses as well.
>
> On Airstream's website
> http://www.airstream.com/airstreamer/events/homecoming.html there is a
> load of good information for anyone that needs to know more. ;)
>
> One question: Airstream invites us to "ask a friend to join in the
> festivities" and you can send them an Email from that URL listed above.
>
> Does a "friend" need to own an Airstream for this
> Homecoming 2005? Or, can they own an SOB?
>
> Does anyone know? Thanks in advance.
>
> Tom & Ann Meeker
> WBCCI 5303
>
>
>
>
> From: "John Sellers" <jsellers@spectra-research.com>
>
>
>> > From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
>>
>> > How many people on this list have plans to be in Ohio at Jackson Center
>> > for the Airstream's Homecoming Festival 2005?
>>
>> We'll be there! (1960 Pacer, #1587)
>>
>> > Anyone know how far it is from Jackson Center, Ohio to Lansing, MI?
>>
>> According to my trusty "Road Trips" intercity navigation program, it's
>> 223 miles by Interstate highways, but 180 miles by the most direct route
>> (US 127). If you are going to Lansing from Jackson Center (or vice
>> versa) I would take the US 127 route, which avoids the Detroit metro area
>> traffic.
>>
>> > Knowing that Ohio is the "Home of Humidity" we are going to be sure to
>> > have
>> > the Honda EU3000is generator and plan to be very comfortable. With two
>> > 40#
>> > tanks of LP we should be all set.
>>
>> For what it's worth, last year it was sunny and pleasantly cool--got
>> downright chilly at night.
>>
>> > Does anyone know the arrangement for gray water tanks? Do we have to
>> > keep it
>> > trapped or will there be a way to get it picked up?
>>
>> Seems to me they pumped tanks twice during the rally. We were parked in
>> a big grass field north of the factory and were cheerfully invited to
>> drain graywater under our trailers. When we pulled out at the end of the
>> rally I looked to see if I could find the spot where our graywater
>> drained and I couldn't find it. They have good absorbent soil there.
>>
>> We had a great time at last year's Homecoming Rally. The folks at
>> Airstream are as friendly as can be, and you'll get plenty of chances to
>> meet the folks that build them. Some of the folks that built our vintage
>> trailers are _still_ building Airstreams! We'll be looking forward to
>> seeing all of you!
>>
>> See you down the road,
>>
>> John & Barbara Sellers
>> WBCCI/VAC #1587
>> 1960 Pacer
>> Dayton, OH
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
> Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:12:07 -0400
From: gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Gauge or thickness of 1972 airstream globetrotter aluminum skin
Nor going with the grain.
Bending 2024-T6 requires proper set back and bend allowance for the desired
radius and bend degree.
Bend allowance depends on; the degree of bend, the radius of bend, the
material thickness and the type of material.
Alclad or Pureclad are both terms to designate metal sheets that have a
aluminum core coated with a layer of pure aluminum on one or both sides.
The thickness of the pure aluminum coating depends on the thickness of the
sheet. The nominal Alclad thickness is 4% of the complete thickness for
material under 0.063 of an inch; 2.5% for material in the range of 0.063 to
0.187 inch, and 1.5% for material 0.188 inch and thicker.
Bobby
Aircraft Structures
----- Original Message -----
Wrom: BUZXUWLSZLKBRNVWWCUFPEGAUTFJMVRESKPN
Do you know what the bend allowance is the part you are making?
Sounds to me like you are not allowing enough room for the radius.
Tom
> That might depend on whether its Alclad or not?
>
> I know my chunks of 2024-T6 are a distinct color, and are not Alclad.
> And they break when bent in my brake.
>
> --
> Gerald J.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:33:41 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Gauge or thickness of 1972 airstream globetrotter aluminum skin
From: <gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Gauge or thickness of 1972 airstream globetrotter
aluminum skin
> Nor going with the grain.
> Bending 2024-T6 requires proper set back and bend allowance for the
> desired
> radius and bend degree.
> Bend allowance depends on; the degree of bend, the radius of bend, the
> material thickness and the type of material.
>
> Alclad or Pureclad are both terms to designate metal sheets that have a
> aluminum core coated with a layer of pure aluminum on one or both sides.
> The thickness of the pure aluminum coating depends on the thickness of the
> sheet. The nominal Alclad thickness is 4% of the complete thickness for
> material under 0.063 of an inch; 2.5% for material in the range of 0.063
> to
> 0.187 inch, and 1.5% for material 0.188 inch and thicker.
>
>
> Bobby
> Aircraft Structures
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:35:26 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Gauge or thickness of 1972 airstream globetrotter aluminum skin
You are good, Bobby!
Tom Meeker
WBCCI 5303
Airplanes - engines and structures - was my other life
From: <gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Gauge or thickness of 1972 airstream globetrotter
aluminum skin
> Nor going with the grain.
> Bending 2024-T6 requires proper set back and bend allowance for the
> desired
> radius and bend degree.
> Bend allowance depends on; the degree of bend, the radius of bend, the
> material thickness and the type of material.
>
> Alclad or Pureclad are both terms to designate metal sheets that have a
> aluminum core coated with a layer of pure aluminum on one or both sides.
> The thickness of the pure aluminum coating depends on the thickness of the
> sheet. The nominal Alclad thickness is 4% of the complete thickness for
> material under 0.063 of an inch; 2.5% for material in the range of 0.063
> to
> 0.187 inch, and 1.5% for material 0.188 inch and thicker.
>
>
> Bobby
> Aircraft Structures
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:40:53 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in OH
Thanks, Roger. It is also at
http://www.airstream.com/airstreamer/events/homecoming.html where down near
the bottom of the page it lists 4 campgrounds that your non-Airstream
friends may stay at. Cost to non-Airstreamers as guests is $75.00 which
allows them to take part in all the festivities.
This is a great time for SOB owners to look, see and even drive/tow
demonstrator trailers. I'm assuming that Airstream will and should use this
opportunity to sell as many *new* and *used/trade-ins* as is possible during
the Homecoming 2005.
I don't know what the campground fees are for those 4 campgrounds listed but
surely they must be reasonable.
Tom Meeker
WBCCI 5303
From: "Roger Hightower" <rwhigh@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
>I would think a telephone call to Jackson Center would clear that up.
>
> Roger
> From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
>> Thank you for all of the good information, John. We look forward to
>> being able to put some faces to the Email names and addresses as well.
>>
>> On Airstream's website
>> http://www.airstream.com/airstreamer/events/homecoming.html there is a
>> load of good information for anyone that needs to know more. ;)
>>
>> One question: Airstream invites us to "ask a friend to join in the
>> festivities" and you can send them an Email from that URL listed above.
>>
>> Does a "friend" need to own an Airstream for this
>> Homecoming 2005? Or, can they own an SOB?
>>
>> Does anyone know? Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Tom & Ann Meeker
>> WBCCI 5303
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:44:13 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
David,
It's always been my understanding that the thermocouple needs to be within
1/8" of the pilot light itself. All the thermocouple needs to do is sense
heat to either open or close the gas valve.
Tom
WBCCI 5303
From: "David Tidmore" <dtidmore@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
> The pilot light does not have a jet, only the main burner. Dean, you are
> correct about reaming out the main jet orifice, but it is made of brass
> and
> therefore rust-proof. As it has already been established that the main
> burner will light, there is nothing wrong with the main burner jet
> orifice.
>
>
> On the pilot light, gas is simply passed along the tube to the
> thermocouple
> area and allowed to burn (ie no jet to mix outside air into the gas flow).
> There is either an inline flow rate adjustment (small slotted device in
> pilot light line) or an equivalent on the main gas valve to set the small
> gas flow rate at the pilot. If cleaning out the pilot line tube does not
> work, then the pilot light adjustment valve may need to be opened and
> closed
> a few times as it might have some trash blocking it as presently adjusted.
> If you set the flow rate too low, the pilot will go out and inadequately
> heat the thermocouple. If set too high, the pilot light will tend to blow
> out and the hot part of the flame may well be beyond the thermocouple
> location, again causing inadequate heating of the thermocouple. The ideal
> setting is a small flame that just barely covers the thermocouple tip
> (putting the thermocouple at the hottest part of the flame)
>
> david
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
> Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:08:40 -0700
From: "Gary Quamen" <g_quamen@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
Hey Glyn:
If your regulator is like mine you must be sure that the OFF-PILOT-ON knob
is accurately centered in the PILOT position or the pilot button won't go
all the way down. It catches on the knob. I had trouble lighting mine at
first until I figured that out. The button still will depress, but not
enough to release gas so that the pilot can be lit. The button actually
goes in quite a ways if the knob is positioned right. And also be prepared
to spend some time with the button depressed before the pilot will stay lit.
Tis a pain sometimes. I use one of those butane lighter sticks myself.
But, if you already know all this..........never mind.
GQ '67 Safari
4082 in CA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:48:59 -0500
From: Gerald <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V2 #210
The jet/nozzle for the pilot is TINY. A couple hairs in diameter. In the
refrigerator for my '68 Caravel, both sit under the combustion tube that
is above them so any rust that scales can fall and cover them. I've
noticed that later models use a bent combustion tube so the rust can
fall clear of the jets.
I've not tried to light my water heater. My dad mounted an electric
heating element to solve that problem and its in the flame space.
The main use of the pilot is to supply ignition for the main gas supply.
Heating the thermocouple with the pilot is a safety device to be sure
there's reliable ignition for the main gas supply and that there's no
pilot fuel leak if there's no flame. To make that work the heat from the
pilot heats the thermocouple. Thermocouples run glowing red and
sometimes last a few years, sometimes they don't last so long. The
voltage from the thermocouple is small so their connection at the valve
is always suspect when the thermocouple seems to have failed, but most
often its the thermocouple itself. Carrying a spare thermocouple and
wrench to fit its connection can cost more for the wrench than the spare
thermocouple.
In the RV, I suspect rust and dirt clogging the pilot jet is a major
failure mode. In the vintage RV that clog could be a claw from a spider
or other bug, or goo from an accumulation of really old LP (some say) or
from congealed pipe joint sealant or from congealed mercaptan odorant.
Or a piece from the inside of a flexible hose that was used 30 years ago
and has been gone for 15 years.
The pilot jets that I have successfully opened took working under a low
power microscope with copper wire strands as cleaners, some under .010"
in diameter. They aren't very stiff.
I'm been reminded that on the refrigerator gas line there can be a
section of line filed with steel wool acting as a filter and over time
that can have become clogged. It might be that steel wool is only in the
pipe to the pilot.
That vendor making that $150 repair is counting on the problem being
simple part of the time so he can fix it quick.
- --
Gerald J.
Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer
WBCCI #5623, VAC
All content copyright.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:54:07 -0500
From: Gerald <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Gauge or thickness of 1972 airstream globetrotter aluminum skin
2024-T6 is an age hardening product. It gets harder as it ages I don't
know if that ever stops. Freshly heat treated sheets bend easier than my
surplus decades old stock. If I want a sharp bend, and for my electronic
projects I usually do, I don't try to bend 2024-T6. I do have pieces of
5052 and other alloys that do bend quite nicely.
On Thu, 2005-04-07 at 14:12 -0400, gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
> Nor going with the grain.
> Bending 2024-T6 requires proper set back and bend allowance for the desired
> radius and bend degree.
> Bend allowance depends on; the degree of bend, the radius of bend, the
> material thickness and the type of material.
>
My comment about Alclad pertained to using vinegar on the surface as a
detector for the alloy. Surely any allow detector would show the pure
aluminum of the surface rather than the 2024 alloy of the core. And
since Alclad was used for our vintage Airstreams, that vinegar test
fails.
> Alclad or Pureclad are both terms to designate metal sheets that have a
> aluminum core coated with a layer of pure aluminum on one or both sides.
> The thickness of the pure aluminum coating depends on the thickness of the
> sheet. The nominal Alclad thickness is 4% of the complete thickness for
> material under 0.063 of an inch; 2.5% for material in the range of 0.063 to
> 0.187 inch, and 1.5% for material 0.188 inch and thicker.
>
>
> Bobby
> Aircraft Structures
- --
Gerald J.
Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer
WBCCI #5623, VAC
All content copyright.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:38:17 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Gauge or thickness of 1972 airstream globetrotter aluminum skin
"Age hardening product" ?
I know the designation 'T-6' tells you how the aluminum alloy was "hardened"
and then you know what that process was such as so much time at one
temperature, then boosted to a higher temperature for a set amount of time,
quenched in whatever, etc.
But I've never heard or understood aluminum alloy that has been heat treated
using it's number designation as an "age hardening product."
In the aircraft business we didn't have dates to use aluminum alloy by -
like in the grocery stores where they have the 'sell by date' for foods.
I've used all types of aluminum alloys in the construction and repair of
aircraft and never once have I found or been informed that the metal was -
"too old to use." This is what your statement seems to imply when you say
that metal "gets harder as it ages". Well, it did get harder (T-6) when it
was heat treated, but then that treatment was stopped after a certain amount
of time depending on what you wanted or needed the metal to be for whatever
use it was going to be in an aircraft.
Metal that's too old to use? I've never heard that one before.
Tom
WBCCI 5303
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Gauge or thickness of 1972 airstream globetrotter
aluminum skin
> 2024-T6 is an age hardening product. It gets harder as it ages I don't
> know if that ever stops. Freshly heat treated sheets bend easier than my
> surplus decades old stock. If I want a sharp bend, and for my electronic
> projects I usually do, I don't try to bend 2024-T6. I do have pieces of
> 5052 and other alloys that do bend quite nicely.
>
> On Thu, 2005-04-07 at 14:12 -0400, gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
>> Nor going with the grain.
>> Bending 2024-T6 requires proper set back and bend allowance for the
>> desired
>> radius and bend degree.
>> Bend allowance depends on; the degree of bend, the radius of bend, the
>> material thickness and the type of material.
>>
> My comment about Alclad pertained to using vinegar on the surface as a
> detector for the alloy. Surely any allow detector would show the pure
> aluminum of the surface rather than the 2024 alloy of the core. And
> since Alclad was used for our vintage Airstreams, that vinegar test
> fails.
>
>> Alclad or Pureclad are both terms to designate metal sheets that have a
>> aluminum core coated with a layer of pure aluminum on one or both sides.
>> The thickness of the pure aluminum coating depends on the thickness of
>> the
>> sheet. The nominal Alclad thickness is 4% of the complete thickness for
>> material under 0.063 of an inch; 2.5% for material in the range of 0.063
>> to
>> 0.187 inch, and 1.5% for material 0.188 inch and thicker.
>>
>>
>> Bobby
>> Aircraft Structures
>
> --
> Gerald J.
> Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer
> WBCCI #5623, VAC
> All content copyright.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
> Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:42:41 -0500
From: "David Tidmore" <dtidmore@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
Tom,
If you are within 1/8", that is typically good enough, but much more will
give intermittent hold-in of the pilot flame (ie the pilot light valve will
close off the gas). If is better to adjust the flame so that the
thermocouple is at the very tip of the flame, as the pilot flame size itself
can vary. The hottest part of the flame is at the very tip, so that is
where the thermocouple will generate the most voltage. This is not rocket
science and thermocouple based pilot light systems are pretty forgiving of
misalignment between the flame and the thermocouple, but when things are not
working, it is best to get everything back to optimum conditions.
Understand that the voltage generated by the thermocouple is what holds the
pilot light gas valve open, so the more voltage the quicker it locks in and
the more forgiving of wind, cold, etc.
david
- -----Original Message-----
From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com [mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
On Behalf Of Tom
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:44 PM
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
David,
It's always been my understanding that the thermocouple needs to be within
1/8" of the pilot light itself. All the thermocouple needs to do is sense
heat to either open or close the gas valve.
Tom
WBCCI 5303
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:43:27 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] Piezo-electric starters for vintage waterheaters? I think so!
While we are on the topic of starting water heaters up.
The piezo-electric push-button starters used on BBQ grills and sold
separately for when they fail - what do you think about using one of these
on a water heater?
I was just thinking how "nice" it would be for those older vintage trailers
that don't have the new-fangled circuit boards with the included electric
starters to have one of their own.
Since the BBQ grill piezo-electric starters are nothing more than pushing a
metal rod through a small roll of wire to induce an electric charge, why
wouldn't they work on vintage water heaters?
Just think - you could simply turn on the gas to your water heater and push
a button and Voila! the pilot light would be lit and in a few minutes
PRESTO! your hot water would be doing it's job.
What say you?
Tom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V2 #210
> The jet/nozzle for the pilot is TINY. A couple hairs in diameter. In the
> refrigerator for my '68 Caravel, both sit under the combustion tube that
> is above them so any rust that scales can fall and cover them. I've
> noticed that later models use a bent combustion tube so the rust can
> fall clear of the jets.
>
> I've not tried to light my water heater. My dad mounted an electric
> heating element to solve that problem and its in the flame space.
>
> The main use of the pilot is to supply ignition for the main gas supply.
> Heating the thermocouple with the pilot is a safety device to be sure
> there's reliable ignition for the main gas supply and that there's no
> pilot fuel leak if there's no flame. To make that work the heat from the
> pilot heats the thermocouple. Thermocouples run glowing red and
> sometimes last a few years, sometimes they don't last so long. The
> voltage from the thermocouple is small so their connection at the valve
> is always suspect when the thermocouple seems to have failed, but most
> often its the thermocouple itself. Carrying a spare thermocouple and
> wrench to fit its connection can cost more for the wrench than the spare
> thermocouple.
>
> In the RV, I suspect rust and dirt clogging the pilot jet is a major
> failure mode. In the vintage RV that clog could be a claw from a spider
> or other bug, or goo from an accumulation of really old LP (some say) or
> from congealed pipe joint sealant or from congealed mercaptan odorant.
> Or a piece from the inside of a flexible hose that was used 30 years ago
> and has been gone for 15 years.
>
> The pilot jets that I have successfully opened took working under a low
> power microscope with copper wire strands as cleaners, some under .010"
> in diameter. They aren't very stiff.
>
> I'm been reminded that on the refrigerator gas line there can be a
> section of line filed with steel wool acting as a filter and over time
> that can have become clogged. It might be that steel wool is only in the
> pipe to the pilot.
>
> That vendor making that $150 repair is counting on the problem being
> simple part of the time so he can fix it quick.
> --
> Gerald J.
> Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer
> WBCCI #5623, VAC
> All content copyright.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
> Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:46:28 -0400
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] water inlet
Hello Ed!
I tried this on our return trip from Fla in Jan. (It was actually warm
enough to pospone winterization until after we got home!) It slowed down the
spray, but would not stop it...perhaps the valve was bad or perhaps for some
reason it did not like to work "in reverse". Either way, if what Daisy is
saying is correct one of the two valves under the bathroom sink behind the
bathtub turn off the supply inlet.
Scott
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "eemerick" <eemerick@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
> I use a screw in shut off that is plastic. Its green, found in the
> garden shop with a shut off, I helps keep the pressure and the pump off.
> This is sort of an in-line shut off for a garden hose.
> Nothing fancy,
> Ed
> WBCCI/VAC 4425
> 68 Sovereign
> 59 traveler
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 12:51:02 -0700
From: Glyn Judson <glynjudson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
Gary,
Been there, done th............
I did that very thing a few days ago when starting this project. I must
be a slow learner because that action brought back a flood of memories of
doing the same thing lying on the basement floor with a match in one hand, a
finger of my other hand on the (partially depressed) big red button and a
small flashlight held in my teeth until the match burned my finger tips and
had not yet lit the dam#%* pilot light!!
Oh, so the flashlight can also be used to see if the red knob is turned
enough before trying to light the pilot? And here I thought its only
purpose was to illuminate the darkest reaches of that big black hole where
all the little pipes disappear into.
Grins,
Glyn
> From: "Gary Quamen" <g_quamen@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> Reply-To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:08:40 -0700
> To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
>
> Hey Glyn:
>
> If your regulator is like mine you must be sure that the OFF-PILOT-ON knob
> is accurately centered in the PILOT position or the pilot button won't go
> all the way down. It catches on the knob. I had trouble lighting mine at
> first until I figured that out. The button still will depress, but not
> enough to release gas so that the pilot can be lit. The button actually
> goes in quite a ways if the knob is positioned right. And also be prepared
> to spend some time with the button depressed before the pilot will stay lit.
> Tis a pain sometimes. I use one of those butane lighter sticks myself.
>
> But, if you already know all this..........never mind.
>
> GQ '67 Safari
> 4082 in CA
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 19:59:28 +0000
From: safari_tim@xxxxxxxxxx.net (Tim S)
Subject: Re: [VAL] Piezo-electric starters for vintage waterheaters? I think so!
Atwood sells a re-ignighter that runs on a 9v battery. It's purpose is to
relight the water heater if the pilot blows out.
I was going to buy it until I figure out mine was blowing out because I resued
the original stainless steel cover that did not have a gasket along the inside
bottom blocking the wind gusting through.
As I remember when I was looking into it, you could buy it direct and it wasn't
too much money.
- --
- -Tim
www.ldservice.com/tim/tim
- -------------- Original message --------------
> While we are on the topic of starting water heaters up.
>
> The piezo-electric push-button starters used on BBQ grills and sold
> separately for when they fail - what do you think about using one of these
> on a water heater?
>
> I was just thinking how "nice" it would be for those older vintage trailers
> that don't have the new-fangled circuit boards with the included electric
> starters to have one of their own.
>
> Since the BBQ grill piezo-electric starters are nothing more than pushing a
> metal rod through a small roll of wire to induce an electric charge, why
> wouldn't they work on vintage water heaters?
>
> Just think - you could simply turn on the gas to your water heater and push
> a button and Voila! the pilot light would be lit and in a few minutes
> PRESTO! your hot water would be doing it's job.
>
> What say you?
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gerald"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V2 #210
>
>
> > The jet/nozzle for the pilot is TINY. A couple hairs in diameter. In the
> > refrigerator for my '68 Caravel, both sit under the combustion tube that
> > is above them so any rust that scales can fall and cover them. I've
> > noticed that later models use a bent combustion tube so the rust can
> > fall clear of the jets.
> >
> > I've not tried to light my water heater. My dad mounted an electric
> > heating element to solve that problem and its in the flame space.
> >
> > The main use of the pilot is to supply ignition for the main gas supply.
> > Heating the thermocouple with the pilot is a safety device to be sure
> > there's reliable ignition for the main gas supply and that there's no
> > pilot fuel leak if there's no flame. To make that work the heat from the
> > pilot heats the thermocouple. Thermocouples run glowing red and
> > sometimes last a few years, sometimes they don't last so long. The
> > voltage from the thermocouple is small so their connection at the valve
> > is always suspect when the thermocouple seems to have failed, but most
> > often its the thermocouple itself. Carrying a spare thermocouple and
> > wrench to fit its connection can cost more for the wrench than the spare
> > thermocouple.
> >
> > In the RV, I suspect rust and dirt clogging the pilot jet is a major
> > failure mode. In the vintage RV that clog could be a claw from a spider
> > or other bug, or goo from an accumulation of really old LP (some say) or
> > from congealed pipe joint sealant or from congealed mercaptan odorant.
> > Or a piece from the inside of a flexible hose that was used 30 years ago
> > and has been gone for 15 years.
> >
> > The pilot jets that I have successfully opened took working under a low
> > power microscope with copper wire strands as cleaners, some under .010"
> > in diameter. They aren't very stiff.
> >
> > I'm been reminded that on the refrigerator gas line there can be a
> > section of line filed with steel wool acting as a filter and over time
> > that can have become clogged. It might be that steel wool is only in the
> > pipe to the pilot.
> >
> > That vendor making that $150 repair is counting on the problem being
> > simple part of the time so he can fix it quick.
> > --
> > Gerald J.
> > Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer
> > WBCCI #5623, VAC
> > All content copyright.
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
> > Airstream
> > Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
> >
> > When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> > http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:09:04 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
I agree with you, David. That's why I said "within 1/8".
Tom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "David Tidmore" <dtidmore@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:42 PM
Subject: RE: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
> Tom,
> If you are within 1/8", that is typically good enough, but much more will
> give intermittent hold-in of the pilot flame (ie the pilot light valve
> will
> close off the gas). If is better to adjust the flame so that the
> thermocouple is at the very tip of the flame, as the pilot flame size
> itself
> can vary. The hottest part of the flame is at the very tip, so that is
> where the thermocouple will generate the most voltage. This is not rocket
> science and thermocouple based pilot light systems are pretty forgiving of
> misalignment between the flame and the thermocouple, but when things are
> not
> working, it is best to get everything back to optimum conditions.
> Understand that the voltage generated by the thermocouple is what holds
> the
> pilot light gas valve open, so the more voltage the quicker it locks in
> and
> the more forgiving of wind, cold, etc.
>
> david
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com [mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
> On Behalf Of Tom
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:44 PM
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
>
> David,
>
> It's always been my understanding that the thermocouple needs to be within
> 1/8" of the pilot light itself. All the thermocouple needs to do is sense
> heat to either open or close the gas valve.
>
> Tom
> WBCCI 5303
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
> Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:17:39 -0400
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in Jackson Center Ohio 2005
Tom,
Given the time of year there should not be the combination of heat and
humidity that would make you want to run your A/C unit. I seem to remember
that last year we ran our furnace at night. I'm sure you are welcome to use
your generator, but when you arrive let them know that you have one because
most likely they will want to park you in a different area of the grounds.
If you havn't found out already, many people do not like to be parked next
to someone else's running generator, quiet or not.
Gray water is not a problem, it can be dropped on the ground. Get a sewer
cap with a hose attachment, and connect a short length of garden hose to
direct the used water back under your trailer.
I'm thinking that black water will be pumped.
The electricity is enough to run your lights, fans, radio, etc. Just not the
large energy users like a coffee maker or hair dryer.
Scott Scheuermann
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
>
> Jini also told me that there will be electricity there - all of 3 amps. ;)
> Guess that's enough to power up the roof-top fans and a lightbulb or two?
;)
>
> Knowing that Ohio is the "Home of Humidity" we are going to be sure to
have
> the Honda EU3000is generator and plan to be very comfortable. With two
40#
> tanks of LP we should be all set.
>
> Does anyone know the arrangement for gray water tanks? Do we have to keep
it
> trapped or will there be a way to get it picked up?
>
> Tom & Ann Meeker
> WBCCI 5303
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:21:04 -0400
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] water inlet
John,
Yes that is my question. Does the trailer have a one way valve at the city
water inlet, or a manual valve? The trailer is a '73.
Scott
- ------------------------
> Scott, I have the same setup; it may be that your one-way (check) valve,
>
> assuning you have it, has stuck open. I experienced this problem after
> blowing out my system with compressed air through the street connection
> one year. From that time on it has been non-functional; possibly
> because I may have used too much air pressure. In any case, until I get
>
> around to replacing the valve, I am using a simple plug in the hose
> connection, which I think I got from a hardware store or Fleet Farm, to
> plug the hole in the system. The plug should be easy to find, or you
> could fabricate a cheap one from a garden hose fitting and a rubber
> stopper. Good luck.
>
> John Anderson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:24:48 -0700
From: Glyn Judson <glynjudson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
David and all,
Once again I want to thank each and every one of you who chimed in with
your thoughts and suggestions. As I type this, I've just come in from the
Caravel where I just about burned my hand off checking the water temperature
in the galley and head sinks.
David, it was your suggestion that I give that large slotted screw some
attention that solved the problem. But that wasn't before I had taken all
the plumbing, including the thermocouple off to inspect and check for gas
flow. That was a good thing as it helped me to understand how the darned
thing works and confirmed in my mind that these parts weren't at fault. As
everything to that point checked out, you can imagine my disappointment when
I reassembled the parts and attempted to light the pilot which wouldn't.
It was then that I remembered your suggestion, so I tweaked that screw
which was pretty darned stiff, I might add. As son as I turned it one way
and then back to its original spot, the pilot came to life. The pilot
stayed on after releasing the red button and the burner flamed to life as I
turned the red knob.
The heater is set on hot and when they say hot, they mean it. If ever I
actually use the water heater, it'll be turned waaaay down.
So thanks again to everybody for all your help. You've saved me a
bundle and possibly others on this list will take my lead and fix their own
recalcitrant water heaters.
Now on to the teeny weenie water drip coming from the sweated joint just
up hill from the pressure regulator. That I can do with my eyes closed and
one hand behind my back, but then I have to hold the solder between my
teeth. I guess I'll use both hands after all.
Regards,
GLyn
> From: "David Tidmore" <dtidmore@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Reply-To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:42:41 -0500
> To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Subject: RE: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
>
> Tom,
> If you are within 1/8", that is typically good enough, but much more will
> give intermittent hold-in of the pilot flame (ie the pilot light valve will
> close off the gas). If is better to adjust the flame so that the
> thermocouple is at the very tip of the flame, as the pilot flame size itself
> can vary. The hottest part of the flame is at the very tip, so that is
> where the thermocouple will generate the most voltage. This is not rocket
> science and thermocouple based pilot light systems are pretty forgiving of
> misalignment between the flame and the thermocouple, but when things are not
> working, it is best to get everything back to optimum conditions.
> Understand that the voltage generated by the thermocouple is what holds the
> pilot light gas valve open, so the more voltage the quicker it locks in and
> the more forgiving of wind, cold, etc.
>
> david
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com [mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
> On Behalf Of Tom
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:44 PM
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
>
> David,
>
> It's always been my understanding that the thermocouple needs to be within
> 1/8" of the pilot light itself. All the thermocouple needs to do is sense
> heat to either open or close the gas valve.
>
> Tom
> WBCCI 5303
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:26:32 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Piezo-electric starters for vintage waterheaters? I think so!
What did you do about the door gasket?
I'm thinking of using some flat fireplace door gaskets on our old Airstream.
Tom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim S" <safari_tim@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Piezo-electric starters for vintage waterheaters? I think
so!
> Atwood sells a re-ignighter that runs on a 9v battery. It's purpose is to
> relight the water heater if the pilot blows out.
>
> I was going to buy it until I figure out mine was blowing out because I
> resued the original stainless steel cover that did not have a gasket along
> the inside bottom blocking the wind gusting through.
>
> As I remember when I was looking into it, you could buy it direct and it
> wasn't too much money.
>
> --
> -Tim
> www.ldservice.com/tim/tim
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
>> While we are on the topic of starting water heaters up.
>>
>> The piezo-electric push-button starters used on BBQ grills and sold
>> separately for when they fail - what do you think about using one of
>> these
>> on a water heater?
>>
>> I was just thinking how "nice" it would be for those older vintage
>> trailers
>> that don't have the new-fangled circuit boards with the included electric
>> starters to have one of their own.
>>
>> Since the BBQ grill piezo-electric starters are nothing more than pushing
>> a
>> metal rod through a small roll of wire to induce an electric charge, why
>> wouldn't they work on vintage water heaters?
>>
>> Just think - you could simply turn on the gas to your water heater and
>> push
>> a button and Voila! the pilot light would be lit and in a few minutes
>> PRESTO! your hot water would be doing it's job.
>>
>> What say you?
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gerald"
>> To:
>> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V2 #210
>>
>>
>> > The jet/nozzle for the pilot is TINY. A couple hairs in diameter. In
>> > the
>> > refrigerator for my '68 Caravel, both sit under the combustion tube
>> > that
>> > is above them so any rust that scales can fall and cover them. I've
>> > noticed that later models use a bent combustion tube so the rust can
>> > fall clear of the jets.
>> >
>> > I've not tried to light my water heater. My dad mounted an electric
>> > heating element to solve that problem and its in the flame space.
>> >
>> > The main use of the pilot is to supply ignition for the main gas
>> > supply.
>> > Heating the thermocouple with the pilot is a safety device to be sure
>> > there's reliable ignition for the main gas supply and that there's no
>> > pilot fuel leak if there's no flame. To make that work the heat from
>> > the
>> > pilot heats the thermocouple. Thermocouples run glowing red and
>> > sometimes last a few years, sometimes they don't last so long. The
>> > voltage from the thermocouple is small so their connection at the valve
>> > is always suspect when the thermocouple seems to have failed, but most
>> > often its the thermocouple itself. Carrying a spare thermocouple and
>> > wrench to fit its connection can cost more for the wrench than the
>> > spare
>> > thermocouple.
>> >
>> > In the RV, I suspect rust and dirt clogging the pilot jet is a major
>> > failure mode. In the vintage RV that clog could be a claw from a spider
>> > or other bug, or goo from an accumulation of really old LP (some say)
>> > or
>> > from congealed pipe joint sealant or from congealed mercaptan odorant.
>> > Or a piece from the inside of a flexible hose that was used 30 years
>> > ago
>> > and has been gone for 15 years.
>> >
>> > The pilot jets that I have successfully opened took working under a low
>> > power microscope with copper wire strands as cleaners, some under .010"
>> > in diameter. They aren't very stiff.
>> >
>> > I'm been reminded that on the refrigerator gas line there can be a
>> > section of line filed with steel wool acting as a filter and over time
>> > that can have become clogged. It might be that steel wool is only in
>> > the
>> > pipe to the pilot.
>> >
>> > That vendor making that $150 repair is counting on the problem being
>> > simple part of the time so he can fix it quick.
>> > --
>> > Gerald J.
>> > Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer
>> > WBCCI #5623, VAC
>> > All content copyright.
>> >
>> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> > This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
>> > Airstream
>> > Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>> >
>> > When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>> >
>> > To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>> > http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
>> Airstream
>> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>>
>> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>>
>> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail list is not sponsored by or affiliated in any way with
> Airstream
> Inc, Thor Inc, the VAC, or the WBCCI.
>
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 15:33:44 -0500
From: overlander64 <overlander64@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Homecoming Rally in OH
Greetings Brent!
> For those of you hwho recall, I am the St. Louis based
filmmaker hoping to make a documentary about the Airstream
company, Wally Byams' personal story and that of dedicated
Airstreams who live the lifestyle he helped create.
>
> I am interested in knowing more about the Homecoming event
and possibly attending to capture some of the stories and
other history of the company but I have been unable to
find out the dates for the event. I didn't see it on the
company's site. Can someone help me out with the dates for
the 2005 Homecoming event.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brent Jaimes
>
> Storyville Pictures, LLC
> (314) 322-4469
> -----------------------------------------------
The dates for the Homecoming Rally are from May 31 through
June 5, 2005. Ticket information can be found on the
Airstream website at:
http://www.airstream.com/shop/dynamic.php?ProdCat=Homecoming&action=cat
Information about the Homecoming Rally can be found at:
http://www.airstream.com/airstreamer/events/homecoming.tea
If you are planning a trip to Jackson Center, you might want
to consider dropping by the Region 4 Rally if you can depart
a few days earlier -- the Region 4 WBCCI Rally runs from May
23 through May 29, 2005. You can learn more about the
Region 4 Rally (also in Ohio) at:
http://www.wbcci.org/index.cfm?pageSRC=Regions®ionID=4
Good Luck with your project!
Kevin
Kevin D. Allen
WBCCI/VAC/Free Wheelers/Computer Club #6359
1964 Overlander International/1999 GMC K2500 Suburban (7400
VORTEC/4.10 Differentials)
1978 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre/1975 Cadillac Eldorado
Convertible (8.2 Liter V8/2.70 Final Drive)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:47:49 +0000
From: safari_tim@xxxxxxxxxx.net (Tim S)
Subject: Re: [VAL] Piezo-electric starters for vintage waterheaters? I think so!
When I replaced the old Bowen with a new gas only Atwood, I used my original door
in place of the white door that came with the Atwood. It fit perfectly.
What I did not notice was on the new door there is a 1/4" foam gasket that runs
across the bottom. That gasket keeps the wind from gusting up into the heater and
blowing out the pilot.
I just got some gasket material from the local Ace Hardware and rubber cemented it
across the bottom of the original stainless steel door. It's been working great the
last two seasons.
- --
- -Tim
www.ldservice.com/tim/tim
- -------------- Original message --------------
> What did you do about the door gasket?
>
> I'm thinking of using some flat fireplace door gaskets on our old Airstream.
>
> Tom
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim S"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Piezo-electric starters for vintage waterheaters? I think
> so!
>
>
> > Atwood sells a re-ignighter that runs on a 9v battery. It's purpose is to
> > relight the water heater if the pilot blows out.
> >
> > I was going to buy it until I figure out mine was blowing out because I
> > resued the original stainless steel cover that did not have a gasket along
> > the inside bottom blocking the wind gusting through.
> >
> > As I remember when I was looking into it, you could buy it direct and it
> > wasn't too much money.
> >
> > --
> > -Tim
> > www.ldservice.com/tim/tim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:53:39 -0500
From: "David Tidmore" <dtidmore@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
Glyn,
Congrates on the hot water! Glad that I was able to help.
david
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 15:03:23 -0500
From: Gerald <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Gauge or thickness of 1972 airstream globetrotter aluminum skin
My reference is volume 2 of the Metals Handbook, 8th edition by the
American Society for Metals, copyright 1964, pages 275 and 276 where it
shows that 2024 in particular can have tensile properties still changing
a year after the heat treatment. A lot depends on the temperature of the
last heat treatment.
Basically these allows are heated to a point where the inclusions
(alloying metals) aren't quite melted and then the metal is quenched.
They harden by precipitation of the alloying metals over a period of
time. When there's a lot of forming planned it may be frozen at -40 for
a real quench and then stored refrigerated so the forming can be done
before the hardening occurs.
The effects do vary with alloy and this book says other alloys like 7075
and 7079 have strength that "continues to rise at an appreciable rate
for years after quenching." That's what I'm remembering. At the
beginning of that paragraph it says 2024 "at room temperature is
essentially complete (T4) in about four days." However the curves on the
next page show some characteristics don't have a flat curve at 1 year on
a logarithmic time scale.
My stock of old 2024-T6 objects to forming and to punching. But it sure
machines nicely, not a bit of gumminess when drilling or milling.
On Thu, 2005-04-07 at 15:38 -0400, Tom wrote:
> "Age hardening product" ?
>
> I know the designation 'T-6' tells you how the aluminum alloy was "hardened"
> and then you know what that process was such as so much time at one
> temperature, then boosted to a higher temperature for a set amount of time,
> quenched in whatever, etc.
>
> But I've never heard or understood aluminum alloy that has been heat treated
> using it's number designation as an "age hardening product."
>
> In the aircraft business we didn't have dates to use aluminum alloy by -
> like in the grocery stores where they have the 'sell by date' for foods.
>
> I've used all types of aluminum alloys in the construction and repair of
> aircraft and never once have I found or been informed that the metal was -
> "too old to use." This is what your statement seems to imply when you say
> that metal "gets harder as it ages". Well, it did get harder (T-6) when it
> was heat treated, but then that treatment was stopped after a certain amount
> of time depending on what you wanted or needed the metal to be for whatever
> use it was going to be in an aircraft.
>
> Metal that's too old to use? I've never heard that one before.
>
> Tom
> WBCCI 5303
- --
Gerald J.
Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer
WBCCI #5623, VAC
All content copyright.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 15:18:41 -0500
From: Gerald <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Piezo-electric?
The Piezo-electric starters don't work by pushing a rod through a coil
of wire. They work by compressing a spring that then released that rod
to impact a lump of piezo-electric ceramic. Its that impact on the
ceramic that makes the voltage and thus a spark at the end of the wire.
You remember how loud the horizontal whistle of the early black and
white TV sets was? That came from a capacitor in the high voltage
circuit being piezo-electric and changing size from the voltage applied.
Later sets went away from the piezo-electric ceramic capacitor and used
the glass of the picture tube for that dielectric and it wasn't piezo-
electric and so that infernal scream went away.
You get one spark per button push. So you push until you detect
ignition. If I get the pilot and burner on my Caravel's refrigerator to
working some day, I'm sure that the rusty wheel and flint igniter will
be replaced by a piezo-electric igniter. If I can find the one I bought
for that purpose a few years ago. I think its on the couch in the living
room here, but no one has sat on that couch for at least 20 years. Maybe
longer because its always been covered with stuff.
You need to be able to see the burner when using this single spark per
push technique. You won't have gas at the burner the instant you turn
the valve because you have to fill the pipe from the valve to the burner
and so you wait for that before you get ignition. You don't want to wait
until there's sure gas before the first spark because it could fool you
and get too much gas and then the flame can exceed the size you desired
(accompanied by a "whoosh" or "BOOM!" that can alter the surroundings in
ways you don't wish), so you need a series of sparks from ASAP to the
time you get ignition. Once you have ignition you shouldn't need any
more sparks. When done this way it sure beats holding a match at the
pilot, but you still have to hold the pilot valve down until the pilot
has heated the thermocouple or you won't continue to get heat. Using the
permanently mounted piezo-electric igniter beats hunting for the butane
burner igniter and can allow you to keep fingers and hair further from
the combustion process and so drastically reduce that lingering burned
hair/skin odor.
On Thu, 2005-04-07 at 15:43 -0400, Tom wrote:
> While we are on the topic of starting water heaters up.
>
> The piezo-electric push-button starters used on BBQ grills and sold
> separately for when they fail - what do you think about using one of these
> on a water heater?
>
> I was just thinking how "nice" it would be for those older vintage trailers
> that don't have the new-fangled circuit boards with the included electric
> starters to have one of their own.
>
> Since the BBQ grill piezo-electric starters are nothing more than pushing a
> metal rod through a small roll of wire to induce an electric charge, why
> wouldn't they work on vintage water heaters?
>
> Just think - you could simply turn on the gas to your water heater and push
> a button and Voila! the pilot light would be lit and in a few minutes
> PRESTO! your hot water would be doing it's job.
>
> What say you?
>
> Tom
- --
Gerald J.
Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer
WBCCI #5623, VAC
All content copyright.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 16:05:53 -0600
From: Charlie/Betty Burke <cbburke@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] water inlet
Scott,
The short answer is that there is/was a check valve inside the coach not
a manual valve. Depending on accessability of your coach it will be in
the copper plumbing rear corner roadside along with a regulator,
pressure relief popoff and several low point drain valves. Make sure you
bring a flashlight.
Charlie
Scott Scheuermann wrote:
>John,
>
>Yes that is my question. Does the trailer have a one way valve at the city
>water inlet, or a manual valve? The trailer is a '73.
>
>Scott
>
>------------------------
>
>
>>Scott, I have the same setup; it may be that your one-way (check) valve,
>>
>>assuning you have it, has stuck open. I experienced this problem after
>>blowing out my system with compressed air through the street connection
>>one year. From that time on it has been non-functional; possibly
>>because I may have used too much air pressure. In any case, until I get
>>
>>around to replacing the valve, I am using a simple plug in the hose
>>connection, which I think I got from a hardware store or Fleet Farm, to
>>plug the hole in the system. The plug should be easy to find, or you
>>could fabricate a cheap one from a garden hose fitting and a rubber
>>stopper. Good luck.
>>
>>John Anderson
>>
>>
>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 23:37:25 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] Pictures of 1st Homecoming 2004 - Are there any?
Just wondering if there are any pictures from the first Airstream Homecoming
2004 posted for us to see.
If you know of any or if you have some stashed away on one of those free photo
sites please say so. I'd like to see what this rally was like the first time
- - since we didn't get to go.
Thanks.
Tom Meeker
WBCCI 5303
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 23:40:15 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] Aistream factory aerial view? URL link here
Check out this image I found on TerraServer-USA:
http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&X=3752&Y=22404&Z=16&W=1
I found this website that lets you see how things look from the air, it's
called 'terraserver-usa.com' and anyone can go there to see whatever you care
to see about your state, city or town, etc.
Is this the Airstream factory and how it would look from the sky?
Tom Meeker
WBCCI 5303
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 23:07:14 -0500
From: Dean L <dean@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Glyn's Water Heater
What is your mail address that we need to send the Bill To ??
") ")
See you on the road
Dean & Kay
1970 27 ft Airstream , Dodge 3500 Diesel
73 W5GXL
On Apr 7, 2005, at 3:24 PM, Glyn Judson wrote:
> David and all,
>
> Once again I want to thank each and every one of you who chimed in
> with
> your thoughts and suggestions.
------------------------------
End of VAL Digest V2 #211
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