The Vintage Airstream E-mail ListDigest Archive Files
VAL Digest V2 #187
VAL Digest Tuesday, March 15 2005 Volume 02 : Number 187
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Topics in Today's Digest:
Re: [VAL] Dump Valve
RE: [VAL] Cleaning the interior
Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Re: [VAL] Cleaning the interior
Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
[VAL] original Torpedo plans
Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
[VAL] Danger ! Cleaning Felony !
Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V2 #186
Re: [VAL] Brakes
Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
[VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
Re: [VAL] Fantastic Fan Choice
Re: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
RE: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
RE: [VAL] Fantastic Fan Choice
RE: [VAL] Cleaning the interior
RE: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
RE: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
Re: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
Re: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
[VAL] Re: Door knob
Re: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
RE: [VAL] Re: Door knob
Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Re: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
[VAL] Can a vintage trailer be stock and be legal
Re: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
[VAL] WBCCI acceptance of other trailers, bar none
Re: [VAL] WBCCI acceptance of other trailers, bar none
[VAL] 1972 service manual available
[VAL] need wiring diagrahm..
Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Re: [VAL] need wiring diagrahm..
Re: [VAL] need wiring diagrahm..
RE: [VAL] need wiring diagrahm..
Re: [VAL] need wiring diagrahm..
Re: [VAL] need wiring diagrahm..
[VAL] Grants Pass Rally
Re: [VAL] need wiring diagrahm..
Re: [VAL] need wiring diagrahm..
RE: [VAL] Fantastic Fan - Automatic?
RE: [VAL] Fantastic Fan - Paint them aluminum color on outside
Re: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:36:32 -0600
From: overlander64 <overlander64@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Dump Valve
Greetings Ronnie!
> Thank you all for the assistance with my dump valve
leakage. After crawlling under the trailer and inspecting
the dump valve, I found that there are 2 outlets that come
into the main pipe below the valve itself (it appear to be
shut and working) -- 1 leads from the shower and 1 leads
from the sink --- it appears that my water is coming from 1
or both of these. I guess this is considered "gray water"
and what do you do with it when you don't have hook ups. I
am supposing that I put a wash tub under there while in
Oklahoma to keep the ground dry ?
>
> Ronnie
> '62 Globe rotter
> '26 T Model
> '24 T Model
> '46 Ford
>
Most of us with coaches that pre-date the inclusion of
on-board gray (wash) water tanks, utilize portable "blue"
tanks similar to those displayed on the link below:
http://www.rvlifestyles.net/Parts.aspx?Magic=DYWBVX0710140043917&sid=
42ss3345ztqbmmyvnrvwmh45&id=8040000028105&subcatid=7230000014853&CategoryNumber=
11&DealerID=001001071310
One of these tanks is a near necessity at a WBCCI Rally as
we are required to collect wash water at most (if not all)
rallys. I typically carry both a 5 gallon and 22 gallon
model. When the distant is great to the dump station, I
usually carry the 5 gallon since it is small enough to heft
into the trunk of my car and empty it daily - - where the
dump station is within walking distance of the parking area
I utilize the larger 22-gallon model and empty it every
third day (can go 4 days with it but that makes the tank
more difficult to pull).
Good luck with your coach!
Kevin
Kevin D. Allen
WBCCI/VAC/Free Wheelers/Computer Club #6359
1964 Overlander International/1999 GMC K2500 Suburban (7400
VORTEC/4.10 Differentials)
1978 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre/1975 Cadillac Eldorado
Convertible (8.2 Liter V8/2.70 Final Drive)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 00:30:53 -0800
From: "Cruiserbob" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Cleaning the interior
Wally,
I was kind of shocked at the post but didn't want to get into a back and
forth. Cleaning bulkheads couldn't have been easier, given the years of
yellow grime that had accumulated between 1966 when people routinely smoked
and 1999 when I bought my coach.
I simply took 409 or any good quality commercial grade cleanser, maybe add a
little Clorox and Ammonia and use gloves and glasses while scrubbing with a
stiff bristle brush. It comes out cream white and very clean. No problems
at all.
I wouldn't recommend any dismantling unless there is a reason to do so . . .
like water damage.
Sincerely,
Bob Kiger
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wally [mailto:maltnhops@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 4:03 PM
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Cleaning the interior
>
>
> At least I know somebody is reading my posts...
>
> Thanks Joe.
>
> ~Wally
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Winkler" <joepatwink@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
>
>
> > Hey Wally, That is what I have done with hundreds of projects,
> both on my
> > trailer as well as around the house. Works great doesn't it?
> > Joe in Wyoming
> > 1964 Tradewind
> >
> > "Wally" <maltnhops@xxxxxxxxxx.com> wrote:
> >>Since everyone is offering their cleaning advice...
> >>Here's what I did to clean the interior walls in my '66 Caravel:
> >>
> >>1. Drill out all interior rivets
> >>2. Remove interior panels
> >>3. Place panels on front lawn
> >>4. Hose down panels
> >>5. Scrub with soap and water
> >>6. Hose to rinse
> >>7. Allow to dry
> >>8. Stack panels in basement (garage works, too)
> >>9. Reinstall panels someday when I finally get the time and money to
> >>finish
> >>this thing
> >>
> >>Isn't this what all of you are doing?
> >>
> >>:)
> >>Wally
> >>www.vintageairstreamer.com
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 03:20:38 -0700
From: Royce <rkkessler@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Forrest,
Thanks for browseing through the past issues of PM. I am sure that I can
design a sutible replacement but would like to have the orginal to base it
on.
Atb,
Royce
On Sunday 13 March 2005 10:51 am, Forrest McClure wrote:
> Royce,
>
> Your question has come up before, and I don't think anyone has an answer. I
> presume you are referring to the plans that could be purchased to build
> Wally's Torpedo trailer? There has also been speculation that one of his
> early trailer designs were published in Popular Mechanics, but so far I'm
> not convinced of this because I've taken the time to browse through them
> from 1932 to 1937 and couldn't find anything that was actually by Wally.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 03:22:38 -0700
From: Royce <rkkessler@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Wally,
That would be cool. I may just have to pool the collective recollection,
scale form photos and build from there.
Royce
On Sunday 13 March 2005 11:00 am, Wally wrote:
> I saw the plans inside the torpedo when I toured it at the VT
> international. I wonder if he might allow a copy to be made. That would be
> pretty cool.
>
> ~Wally
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 03:27:04 -0700
From: Royce <rkkessler@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Fred,
Thanks for the search. Photos of orginal if permitted would be just fine.
Likely will take someone with a silver tounge to convince the owner. :-). I
haven't yet had the prelvilage to see the Torpedo in person, just photos.
Royce
On Sunday 13 March 2005 11:10 am, Fred Coldwell wrote:
> Royce et cal:
>
> Dr. Holman's is the only set of Airstream plans I know of. We have
> no copies on the VAC Archives. Like Forrest, I spent quite a few hours
> looking through numerous old magazines from 1925 forward but never found
> a set of trailer plans that I thought might have been Wally's, even
> under a nome de plume.
>
> Given the fragile condition of Dr. Holman's plans, perhaps the best
> way to obtain a copy would be to photograph them in high resolution and
> have a fresh set of plans drawn that could then be easily reproduced.
> Such an approach would minimize handling the original plans yet again.
> Does anyone know if Dr. Holman, Jr., is going to attend the
> International at Springfield? I'll be there with my digital camera and
> an itchy button finger! :)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 05:53:39 -0500
From: "Wally" <maltnhops@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Cleaning the interior
Bob,
Once you've seen the pictures on my website, you'll know why I have
dismantled everything. It's www.vintageairstreamer.com , under "Percy".
~Wally
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Cruiserbob" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Wally,
>
> I was kind of shocked at the post but didn't want to get into a back and
> forth.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 05:56:18 -0500
From: "Wally" <maltnhops@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Royce,
Judging from what I've heard here on the list, it seems that a digital
camera is the best bet. I'd be stealthy about it, though. It doesn't sound
like he wants to see another Torpedo on the road. Exclusivity can be
intoxicating.
~Wally
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Royce" <rkkessler@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 5:22 AM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
> Wally,
>
> That would be cool. I may just have to pool the collective recollection,
> scale form photos and build from there.
>
> Royce
> On Sunday 13 March 2005 11:00 am, Wally wrote:
>> I saw the plans inside the torpedo when I toured it at the VT
>> international. I wonder if he might allow a copy to be made. That would
>> be
>> pretty cool.
>>
>> ~Wally
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 03:41:59 -0700
From: Royce <rkkessler@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] original Torpedo plans
Wow, I seemed to stir a lot of interest with that request. Thanks to all for
your input. Scott, Colin, Daisy, Matt, Toby, Thanks for your comments. Had
a flash back to "Mr. Phelps, your mission, should you decide to accept
it..." :-)
I would prefer to think that we had the blessing of the current owner.
Lacking that I may pool the collective recollection, scale from photos and
just redesign. Given the way I design and build likely there would be
substantial changes anyway. Any one know the contact info for Dr. Holman's
Son?
Royce
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 03:44:59 -0700
From: Royce <rkkessler@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Colin,
That would be great if you could find those photos.
Royce
On Sunday 13 March 2005 11:27 pm, chyde wrote:
> Daisy,
> I took some photos of those plans in VT as I was a Draftsman in a former
> life. I'll look around for them. I'm not so sure how close up I got though.
> I think a 36 Clipper would be much more interesting to build though.
> Colin Hyde
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 03:51:21 -0700
From: Royce <rkkessler@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Wally,
Thanks for the offer. Sounds like you may have it right. Also sounds like
there is enough interest to get the job done. :-) I don't want to steal
anything but another Torpedo on the road would be really cool. Who knows may
be the beginning of another wave, "Vintage Reproductions Club".
Royce
On Monday 14 March 2005 03:56 am, Wally wrote:
> Royce,
>
> Judging from what I've heard here on the list, it seems that a digital
> camera is the best bet. I'd be stealthy about it, though. It doesn't
> sound like he wants to see another Torpedo on the road. Exclusivity can be
> intoxicating.
>
> ~Wally
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 07:08:18 -0500
From: Daisy Welch <jtdjtd@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Danger ! Cleaning Felony !
Cruiserbob wrote:
I simply took 409 or any good quality commercial grade
cleanser, maybe add a
> little Clorox and Ammonia and use gloves and glasses while scrubbing with a
> stiff bristle brush. It comes out cream white and very clean. No problems
> at all.
Clorox and Ammonia are a DEADLY combination, the two in
combination produce a gas that will KILL YOU.
Do NOT combine them ever.
Daisy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 07:21:22 -0700
From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Royce:
Forrest and I both, perhaps unintentionally, may have been looking
for long ago published trailer plans that DIDN'T work. Remember, the
first trailer plans Wally published (as a publisher) produced a howl of
protest from people who tried to build a kit designed by an incompetent.
Those very first plans did not work. It was only after Wally tried to
build that trailer himself that he fully realized the plans needed to be
revised. Did Wally ever publish the revised plans in a magazine? I
don't recall, but I had no luck in finding any. I think these very
first plans were published in the 1920s in some unnamed (and long
forgotten) magazine that Wally then owned.
Years later, Wally eventually produced a set of trailer plans that
worked but he sold them by mail order. Those are the plans Dr. Holman,
Sr. bought and used to built his Torpedo in the 1930s. So I think the
plans you are interested in never were published in a magazine. Only
small ads for those plans ever appeared, offering plans for sale for
around $5.00. Torpedos and other Airstreams were also being built in
the factory by 1934.
Today's Wally made a strong point with exclusivity. Perhaps Dr.
Holman, Jr., feels it would diminish his father's legacy to have another
Torpedo around, and therefore keeps the plans under a tight wrap. I
requested a set of plans for the VAC Archives over 5 years ago, when Dr.
Holman, Sr. was alive, but they never arrived at my doorstep. It also
would be awkward and damaging to have them unframed and copied on a
large blueprint copier, as it would likely crumble the fragile paper.
Fred Coldwell
Royce wrote:
> Forrest,
>
> Thanks for browseing through the past issues of PM. I am sure that I can
> design a sutible replacement but would like to have the orginal to base it
> on.
>
> Atb,
> Royce
> On Sunday 13 March 2005 10:51 am, Forrest McClure wrote:
>
>>Royce,
>>
>>Your question has come up before, and I don't think anyone has an answer. I
>>presume you are referring to the plans that could be purchased to build
>>Wally's Torpedo trailer? There has also been speculation that one of his
>>early trailer designs were published in Popular Mechanics, but so far I'm
>>not convinced of this because I've taken the time to browse through them
>>from 1932 to 1937 and couldn't find anything that was actually by Wally.
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:30:49 -0600
From: "Tom Patterson" <pattersontom@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
The word theft comes to mind here.
Am I the only one thinking along these lines?
- -Tom
>
> Judging from what I've heard here on the list, it seems that a digital
> camera is the best bet. I'd be stealthy about it, though. It doesn't
> sound like he wants to see another Torpedo on the road. Exclusivity can
> be intoxicating.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:41:36 -0500
From: "Myrna Warren" <uncleneal@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
> The word theft comes to mind here.
>
> Am I the only one thinking along these lines?
>
> -Tom
>
As long as you are thinking of theft, why not hire the "A-Team" to steal the
trailer and the plans? Then you could hide it out in an undisclosed
location and use it for a pattern to build another one. :)
Neal
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:10:18 +0900
From: Jeffrey Fryckman <fryckman@xxxxxxxxxx.att.ne.jp>
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V2 #186
If the vent from the 55 Bubble is still available I'd love to have it.
Sorry I can't help with what you need.
3732 Newton Rd.
Stockton CA 95202
Jeff Fryckman
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:43:38 -0600
From: Dean L <dean@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Brakes
You can buy new backer plates e/w new shoes, magnet, levers and
springs. Just four bolts and you have all new breaks. You may have
to turn your drums to true them up. And the price is good.
Just look for a dealer for "Dexter Axle" They have two sizes 2 X 12
and 2 X10 inch. This way is much easer than putting on new shoes
only.
Dean
On Mar 13, 2005, at 7:24 PM, Brian Brown wrote:
> What size and type Electric brakes are on a 1974 , 29 foot Ambassador?
>
> Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:45:34 -0600
From: "Tom Patterson" <pattersontom@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Let me rephrase my original posting.
I am not suggesting theft, but I think that taking of these photos does
probably contitute theft.
- -Tom
>
> As long as you are thinking of theft, why not hire the "A-Team" to steal
> the
> trailer and the plans? Then you could hide it out in an undisclosed
> location and use it for a pattern to build another one. :)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:03:40 -0800
From: "chyde" <chyde@primelink1.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
> Let me rephrase my original posting.
>
> I am not suggesting theft, but I think that taking of these photos does
> probably contitute theft.
>
> -Tom
Taking photos of the Mona Lisa is not theft. How could this be? I suspect
that if you used this information to create an exact duplicate of the
Torpedo and tried to sell it as an original, that might be considered theft.
People use other peoples ideas everyday. In fact most new designs today are
regurgitated previous designs. Was the Silver Streak considered theft by
Wally and were there ever any lawsuits about it?
Colin Hyde
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:08:40 -0600
From: "Tom Patterson" <pattersontom@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
I would have to leave this to the lawyers, but I don't think that the Mona
Lisa photo would be considered in exactly the same class. Nor would a
picture of the trailer. The plans? I dunno.
BTW, I believe that the Clipper plans, while designed by Wally may never
have been owned by him. After all, he was working for Curtis Wright when
the trailer was designed. Silver Streak bought the trailer business from
Curtis Wright.
- -Tom
>
> Taking photos of the Mona Lisa is not theft. How could this be? I suspect
> that if you used this information to create an exact duplicate of the
> Torpedo and tried to sell it as an original, that might be considered
> theft.
> People use other peoples ideas everyday. In fact most new designs today
> are
> regurgitated previous designs. Was the Silver Streak considered theft by
> Wally and were there ever any lawsuits about it?
> Colin Hyde
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:42:15 -0800
From: "chyde" <chyde@primelink1.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
> I would have to leave this to the lawyers, but I don't think that the Mona
> Lisa photo would be considered in exactly the same class. Nor would a
> picture of the trailer. The plans? I dunno.
>
> BTW, I believe that the Clipper plans, while designed by Wally may never
> have been owned by him. After all, he was working for Curtis Wright when
> the trailer was designed. Silver Streak bought the trailer business from
> Curtis Wright.
>
> -Tom
Any idea if the current Airstream company actually owns the rights to the
Torpedo or are they in the "public domain"? Even if they were in the public
domain, any trailer built (from scratch) from them probably would not be
considered an Airstream by the WBCCI of Airstream. I suppose if someone came
across an original set of purchased plans, Airstream would have no choice
but to allow it to be called an Airstream.
There must be some lawyers among us.
Colin Hyde
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:21:21 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald Johnson" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
What WBCCI as a club will accept for membership will depend on the
constitution and the by laws and the interpretation of those by the
persons those rules give the power of interpretation. Likely the president
has the exclusive power to interpret the constitution and by laws.
Perhaps there is a board of directors with that power. I don't have those
at hand, something I didn't see volunteered when I joined this year.
With that in mind, I don't think its likely a civil court would interfere in the
internal club business of selecting members so long as that selection
didn't go against federal laws covering anti discrimination which as I
recall prohibit discrimination by race, creed, religion, or sexual orientation.
A club for Airstream owners and enthusiasts would not be prohibited from
discriminating against potential members not having an Airstream
product no matter how unique.
The most practical way to change the WBCCI rules is to become a
member of the board or the president and change the interpretation of
the written rules. And that may not be a rapid process.
I suppose the real question is whether the Airstream is so different from
the Silver Streak or the Curtis Wright or the home constructed Clipper.
And whether that difference is so much that those owners should not be
part of the WBCCI. That is a philosophical question that may only be
answered by the officers and members of the WBCCI, not changeable by
legal fiat. Perhaps its changeable by campaign within the WBCCI.
I'm not an attorney, never wanted to be one, but I have studied business
law (one semester) and have testified in court a number of times in
products liability cases. I am president of the Story County Amateur Radio
Club whose constitution makes me the sole interpreter if its contents. We
debate changes to that constitution next month.
(http://www.scarc.networkiowa.com)
Gerald J., WBCCI #5623, VAC
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:25:11 EST
From: Dillonvdill@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Fantastic Fan Choice
I've seen Fantastic fans without the rain sensor for $124.95 at
Camperschoice.com
Vanessa
1958 Overlander 26'
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:24:11 -0700
From: Royce <rkkessler@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
Insightful thoughts. Not something I am overly conserened about. If I were
able to obtain a copy of the original plans and build a trailer it will be
primarily for my satisfaction. If WBCCI chose to recognize or not the
resultant tailer makes no differenc to me. Nice perk sure, effect the
decision to build, not at all. Certainily not something I would push any
club leadership into making a tough decision on. In any case I will
eventually find the AS or Minuet I am looking for.
Royce
On Monday 14 March 2005 10:21 am, Dr. Gerald Johnson wrote:
> What WBCCI as a club will accept for membership will depend on the
> constitution and the by laws and the interpretation of those by the
> persons those rules give the power of interpretation. Likely the president
> has the exclusive power to interpret the constitution and by laws.
> Perhaps there is a board of directors with that power. I don't have those
> at hand, something I didn't see volunteered when I joined this year.
>
> With that in mind, I don't think its likely a civil court would interfere
> in the internal club business of selecting members so long as that
> selection didn't go against federal laws covering anti discrimination which
> as I recall prohibit discrimination by race, creed, religion, or sexual
> orientation. A club for Airstream owners and enthusiasts would not be
> prohibited from discriminating against potential members not having an
> Airstream
> product no matter how unique.
>
> The most practical way to change the WBCCI rules is to become a
> member of the board or the president and change the interpretation of
> the written rules. And that may not be a rapid process.
>
> I suppose the real question is whether the Airstream is so different from
> the Silver Streak or the Curtis Wright or the home constructed Clipper.
> And whether that difference is so much that those owners should not be
> part of the WBCCI. That is a philosophical question that may only be
> answered by the officers and members of the WBCCI, not changeable by
> legal fiat. Perhaps its changeable by campaign within the WBCCI.
>
> I'm not an attorney, never wanted to be one, but I have studied business
> law (one semester) and have testified in court a number of times in
> products liability cases. I am president of the Story County Amateur Radio
> Club whose constitution makes me the sole interpreter if its contents. We
> debate changes to that constitution next month.
> (http://www.scarc.networkiowa.com)
>
> Gerald J., WBCCI #5623, VAC
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:07:24 -0500
From: "Myrna Warren" <uncleneal@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
> Let me rephrase my original posting.
>
> I am not suggesting theft, but I think that taking of these photos does
> probably contitute theft.
>
> -Tom
>
Didn't think you were, my reply was somewhat less than serious. Probably
should have used a different pronoun than "you."
Within the range of what is legal, whether we agree or not, the one who owns
the plans and the trailer has the right to do with them as he pleases.
Neal
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:36:29 -0800
From: "Cruiserbob" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Even formally recognized patents only last 17 years. Many great and
extremely profitable industries have been commandeered by the process of
patent interference . . . which books have been written about.
It seems to me that the best form of protection for intellectual rights,
which would the plans for the "original" Airstream would be copyright.
Consider that Bill Gates copyrights on DOS and windows are holding strong
for billions of dollars over 35 years now.
So whoever copyrighted the plans could conceivably try to protect them from
copying, but if they do not and the item falls into the public domain
category than anyone can build one and call it an "original Airstream" by
citing their source and legal arguments. Mainly that they followed the
public domain (generic) plans to the T and they personally are fond of
connecting to the original designer for sentimental (not for profit)
reasons.
Caution! If the person doing the new build from old drawings is just trying
to enhance market value of the new build, that is "for profit".
I am not a lawyer but I have extensive real world experience with being
copied and struggling for my personal copyrights with the word "videography"
and "CruiserBob's" which became legendary as the name for downhill bicycle
adventuring on the Maui volcano of Haleakala.
Rights are always a messy business and filled with the "other guys" POV :)
Bob Kiger
www.cruiserbob.com
www.videography.org
Oceanside, CA
> -----Original Message-----
> From: chyde [mailto:chyde@primelink1.net]
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 10:04 AM
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
>
>
> > Let me rephrase my original posting.
> >
> > I am not suggesting theft, but I think that taking of these photos does
> > probably contitute theft.
> >
> > -Tom
>
> Taking photos of the Mona Lisa is not theft. How could this be? I suspect
> that if you used this information to create an exact duplicate of the
> Torpedo and tried to sell it as an original, that might be
> considered theft.
> People use other peoples ideas everyday. In fact most new designs
> today are
> regurgitated previous designs. Was the Silver Streak considered theft by
> Wally and were there ever any lawsuits about it?
> Colin Hyde
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:57:25 -0800
From: "Cruiserbob" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Fantastic Fan Choice
It's crazy how prices have soared. My Fantastic Vent a simple 3 speed model
was $89.95 18 months ago at CamperWorld. Inflation . . . I guess :)
Bob Kiger
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dillonvdill@xxxxxxxxxx.com [mailto:Dillonvdill@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:25 AM
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Fantastic Fan Choice
>
>
> I've seen Fantastic fans without the rain sensor for $124.95 at
> Camperschoice.com
> Vanessa
> 1958 Overlander 26'
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:04:49 -0800
From: "Cruiserbob" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Cleaning the interior
Gee. It's kind of intimidating discussing Airstream philosophy with a guy
named Wally :)
I am a practical sort of person. I want to live / work in my trailer sooner
than later. We only have so many years on the planet and a finite quantity
of energy and resources. Some people build pyramids. Others perfect the
perfect method for travelling the planet with a ruck sac.
We each choose, and live by, our choices.
Bob Kiger
www.cruiserbob.com
www.videography.org
Oceanside, CA
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wally [mailto:maltnhops@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 2:54 AM
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Cleaning the interior
>
>
> Bob,
>
> Once you've seen the pictures on my website, you'll know why I have
> dismantled everything. It's www.vintageairstreamer.com , under "Percy".
>
> ~Wally
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cruiserbob" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
>
> > Wally,
> >
> > I was kind of shocked at the post but didn't want to get into a back and
> > forth.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:20:05 -0600
From: "David Tidmore" <dtidmore@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
As per the WBCCI Constitution, Article VI: Qualifications of Members;
Section 1: An adult who owns a fully self contained and hard sided
recreational vehicle manufactured by Airstream, Inc. shall be eligible for
memberhip. (6/30/95)
Per Section 2, paragraph E, A unit shall not establish other requirements
for an applicant to member of the unit. (6/29/96)
That is ALL the WBCCI Constitution says on the subject.
I have to admit I really did think that the WBCCI had altered its
Constitution to include any trailer designed or built by Wally Byam or
Airstream, but the quote above is straight from the 2005 membership
Directory.
David
- -----Original Message-----
From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com [mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
On Behalf Of Dr. Gerald Johnson
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 11:21 AM
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
What WBCCI as a club will accept for membership will depend on the
constitution and the by laws and the interpretation of those by the
persons those rules give the power of interpretation. Likely the president
has the exclusive power to interpret the constitution and by laws.
Perhaps there is a board of directors with that power. I don't have those
at hand, something I didn't see volunteered when I joined this year.
With that in mind, I don't think its likely a civil court would interfere in
the
internal club business of selecting members so long as that selection
didn't go against federal laws covering anti discrimination which as I
recall prohibit discrimination by race, creed, religion, or sexual
orientation.
A club for Airstream owners and enthusiasts would not be prohibited from
discriminating against potential members not having an Airstream
product no matter how unique.
The most practical way to change the WBCCI rules is to become a
member of the board or the president and change the interpretation of
the written rules. And that may not be a rapid process.
I suppose the real question is whether the Airstream is so different from
the Silver Streak or the Curtis Wright or the home constructed Clipper.
And whether that difference is so much that those owners should not be
part of the WBCCI. That is a philosophical question that may only be
answered by the officers and members of the WBCCI, not changeable by
legal fiat. Perhaps its changeable by campaign within the WBCCI.
I'm not an attorney, never wanted to be one, but I have studied business
law (one semester) and have testified in court a number of times in
products liability cases. I am president of the Story County Amateur Radio
Club whose constitution makes me the sole interpreter if its contents. We
debate changes to that constitution next month.
(http://www.scarc.networkiowa.com)
Gerald J., WBCCI #5623, VAC
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:22:15 -0700
From: "Bob Hightower" <rhightower@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
Question: How can it be an Airstream if
it's not built by Airstream? Or a Ford
(Dodge, GMC) if it's not built by the
manufacturer? Homebuilt is homebuilt.
How 'bout putting this one to rest?
Bob Hightower
WBCCI 11365
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:32:25 -0700
From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
David:
There is a resolution out there somewhere working its way to the
Board to remove the "fully self contained" requirement in the
Constitution. As presently written, my legacy 1948 Wee Wind would not
qualify me for WBCCI membership because it was not "fully self
contained" as that term might be interpreted and applied today. Heck,
any Airstream built before wash water tanks were installed around
1973/74 may not meet a strict interpretation of "fully self contained",
thus "dismembering" much of the VAC (I hope not to give anyone bad ideas
here). So I wrote to my Region 11 officials, who independently proposed
an amendment deleting the "fully self contained" requirement from the
WBCCI Constitution.
I think Colin had in mind the 1936 Airstream Clipper as a more
interesting trailer than a Torpedo to have plans for, not a C-w or SS
Clipper.
A C-W Clipper qualifies its owner for WBCCI membership under
current WBCCI policy because Wally worked at C-W and a hand in that
trailer's design while at C-W. But a similar Clipper built by the
later, legally-unrelated asset purchasing company, Silver Streak (not a
successor company to C-W in a legal sense of the word) does not qualify
its owner for WBCCI membership. That's my understanding after talking
to Kathy Adams at HQ.
Fred Coldwell
David Tidmore wrote:
> As per the WBCCI Constitution, Article VI: Qualifications of Members;
> Section 1: An adult who owns a fully self contained and hard sided
> recreational vehicle manufactured by Airstream, Inc. shall be eligible for
> memberhip. (6/30/95)
>
> Per Section 2, paragraph E, A unit shall not establish other requirements
> for an applicant to member of the unit. (6/29/96)
> That is ALL the WBCCI Constitution says on the subject.
>
> I have to admit I really did think that the WBCCI had altered its
> Constitution to include any trailer designed or built by Wally Byam or
> Airstream, but the quote above is straight from the 2005 membership
> Directory.
>
> David
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:06:25 -0600
From: "Tom Patterson" <pattersontom@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
Gosh Fred,
When they remove the "fully self contained" requirement, this fine product
from Airstream will be allowed to attend rallies. I know it would be
welcome now -- just not allowed!
http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/MHonArc/2005_01/msg00282.html
- -Tom
>
> There is a resolution out there somewhere working its way to the Board
> to remove the "fully self contained" requirement in the Constitution.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:10:15 -0500
From: Patricia Raimondo <praimondo@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Re: Door knob
Hi Group,
After reading for years about others having their outside door handles come
off on them (some being locked inside!) it finally happened to Pearl. The
door knob came undone but the inside knob is fine. It looks like a very tiny
pin in missing that holds the knob on the door. My knob does NOT have a lock
on it, I have a separate dead bolt below the knob. Anyone have any idea how
to fix it???
Patti Raimondo
Boulder, Colorado
1954 Flying Cloud
WBCCI # 3221
Vintage Airstream Club
Denver Unit
Washington DC Unit
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:10:37 -0700
From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
Tom:
In the meantime, I'd personally contribute a very large capacity
blue boy to attach to it if that would in any way allow it to attend a
WBCCI Rally. Of course, the resulting by-products would have to be
disposed of in an environmentally sensitive manner. Please note that,
for obvious safety reasons, they didn't put any wheels on it. ;)
Yours in a common aspiration,
Fred C.
Tom Patterson wrote:
> Gosh Fred,
>
> When they remove the "fully self contained" requirement, this fine
> product from Airstream will be allowed to attend rallies. I know it
> would be welcome now -- just not allowed!
>
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/MHonArc/2005_01/msg00282.html
>
> -Tom
>
>>
>> There is a resolution out there somewhere working its way to the
>> Board to remove the "fully self contained" requirement in the
>> Constitution.
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:44:18 -0800
From: "Cruiserbob" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Re: Door knob
On my first test ride down I-5 after restoring my 1966 Safari, I pulled out
of Ashland, Oregon and had not learned to lock the safety lock as well as
lock the door when traveling. The door flew open and banged shut. I went
to a local lock smith that just happened to have a shiny new door knob that
he had ordered for a customer who never picked it up.
Unlike the original equipment, which was a latch, this is a round knob, but
it has the same functionality.
My point is that it is vital to make sure the older coaches have some sort
of dead bolt installed that will allow lock and unlock from inside or
outside (key outside would be best). We just can't rely on the tiny
connection between the lock and the slot in the door frame to take the bumps
and grinds of travel, especially off-highway.
Bob Kiger
www.cruiserbob.com
www.videography.org
Oceanside, CA
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patricia Raimondo [mailto:praimondo@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 1:10 PM
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: [VAL] Re: Door knob
>
>
> Hi Group,
>
> After reading for years about others having their outside door
> handles come off on them (some being locked inside!) it finally
> happened to Pearl. The door knob came undone but the inside knob
> is fine. It looks like a very tiny pin in missing that holds the
> knob on the door. My knob does NOT have a lock on it, I have a
> separate dead bolt below the knob. Anyone have any idea how to fix it???
>
> Patti Raimondo
> Boulder, Colorado
> 1954 Flying Cloud
> WBCCI # 3221
> Vintage Airstream Club
> Denver Unit
> Washington DC Unit
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:57:24 -0700
From: Brad Norgaard <stream2699@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Current copyright protection covers intellectual property for the
originator/creator for that person's lifetime plus fifty years. It is
considered intellectual property though and can be handed down in a will to
another and then it becomes that person's property until fifty years after
that person's death or willed again...and so on and so on. Copyright
protection exists even if the creator has not filed a copyright with the
federal copyright office on the intellectual property. Protection exists at
the moment of creation i.e.: the click of the photographer's shutter, the
pencil is lifted from the final stroke of a blueprint, the final note is
written on a musical piece, etc. Proof of ownership is what usually is
challenged in courts of law.
The laws changed in the last 30 years, I forget which year. Copyright
protection used to be for 17 years and then it could be renewed for 17 add'l
years but only once, then it went into the public domain. The music industry
and the internet have played significant roles in these changes. More
changes are expected in the near future through legislation.
Brad Norgaard
Phoenix
'59 Trade Wind Twin
VAC #2699, TCT
on 3/14/05 11:36 AM, Cruiserbob at bob@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
> Even formally recognized patents only last 17 years. Many great and
> extremely profitable industries have been commandeered by the process of
> patent interference . . . which books have been written about.
>
> It seems to me that the best form of protection for intellectual rights,
> which would the plans for the "original" Airstream would be copyright.
> Consider that Bill Gates copyrights on DOS and windows are holding strong
> for billions of dollars over 35 years now.
>
> So whoever copyrighted the plans could conceivably try to protect them from
> copying, but if they do not and the item falls into the public domain
> category than anyone can build one and call it an "original Airstream" by
> citing their source and legal arguments. Mainly that they followed the
> public domain (generic) plans to the T and they personally are fond of
> connecting to the original designer for sentimental (not for profit)
> reasons.
>
> Caution! If the person doing the new build from old drawings is just trying
> to enhance market value of the new build, that is "for profit".
>
> I am not a lawyer but I have extensive real world experience with being
> copied and struggling for my personal copyrights with the word "videography"
> and "CruiserBob's" which became legendary as the name for downhill bicycle
> adventuring on the Maui volcano of Haleakala.
>
> Rights are always a messy business and filled with the "other guys" POV :)
>
> Bob Kiger
> www.cruiserbob.com
> www.videography.org
> Oceanside, CA
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: chyde [mailto:chyde@primelink1.net]
>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 10:04 AM
>> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
>> Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
>>
>>
>>> Let me rephrase my original posting.
>>>
>>> I am not suggesting theft, but I think that taking of these photos does
>>> probably contitute theft.
>>>
>>> -Tom
>>
>> Taking photos of the Mona Lisa is not theft. How could this be? I suspect
>> that if you used this information to create an exact duplicate of the
>> Torpedo and tried to sell it as an original, that might be
>> considered theft.
>> People use other peoples ideas everyday. In fact most new designs
>> today are
>> regurgitated previous designs. Was the Silver Streak considered theft by
>> Wally and were there ever any lawsuits about it?
>> Colin Hyde
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:23:16 EST
From: HHamp5246@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
In a message dated 3/14/2005 10:55:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,
pattersontom@xxxxxxxxxx.net writes:
> I would have to leave this to the lawyers, but I don't think that the Mona
> Lisa photo would be considered in exactly the same class. Nor would a
> picture of the trailer. The plans? I dunno.
Doesn't the copyright expire in 50 years?
Hunter
http://members.aol.com/ILuvBrady/summer2004.htm
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy
shit...what a ride!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:35:50 EST
From: HHamp5246@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
In a message dated 3/14/2005 1:31:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rkkessler@xxxxxxxxxx.net writes:
> If I were
> able to obtain a copy of the original plans and build a trailer it will be
> primarily for my satisfaction. If WBCCI chose to recognize or not the
> resultant tailer makes no differenc to me.
I've heard grumbling about the Torpedo saying, "Even though Wally Byam
designed it, it was not built by Airstream so it's not an Airstream".
Hunter
http://members.aol.com/ILuvBrady/summer2004.htm
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy
shit...what a ride!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:39:37 -0800
From: "Cruiserbob" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Can a vintage trailer be stock and be legal
In spite of its widespread scope, the "WBCCI acceptance of other trailers"
is an interesting thread.
Since the government has changed the requirement for "self containment"
which it certainly has since the late 60's, then all stock Airstreams would
not be self contained because they did/do not have gray water tanks. One
could argue that an external gray water tank that is carried along for gray
water would be bring the vintage coach into compliance.
Are there any practical ways of carrying such external tanks. I have seen
30 gallon jobs on wheels parked next to some coaches. They can wheel them
to a dump site, but how do they stow them while traveling? They look very
bulky.
Is there an elegant solution to this issue?
The black water tanks are OK as far as I know but they do take lots of care
and PM to keep them working well. I have a problem with the output
connector on my 66 Safari. When they forced me into permanent plumbing to
the city, the stock connector got glued to the external pipes. Now if I
ever want to go back on the road, how will I replace the output connector so
I can hookup at an RV site?
Thanks for any help.
Bob Kiger
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Patterson [mailto:pattersontom@xxxxxxxxxx.net]
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 1:06 PM
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
>
>
> Gosh Fred,
>
> When they remove the "fully self contained" requirement, this
> fine product
> from Airstream will be allowed to attend rallies. I know it would be
> welcome now -- just not allowed!
>
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/MHonArc/2005_01/msg00282.html
>
> -Tom
> >
> > There is a resolution out there somewhere working its way to
> the Board
> > to remove the "fully self contained" requirement in the Constitution.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:49:38 EST
From: HHamp5246@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
In a message dated 3/14/2005 4:06:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
pattersontom@xxxxxxxxxx.net writes:
>
> When they remove the "fully self contained" requirement, this fine product
> from Airstream will be allowed to attend rallies. I know it would be
> welcome now -- just not allowed!
Hey Tom,
It was at the rally in Vermont.
Hunter
http://members.aol.com/ILuvBrady/summer2004.htm
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy
shit...what a ride!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:52:28 -0700
From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] WBCCI acceptance of other trailers, bar none
Hunter:
So did you test it out? How does it corner? ;)
Fred C.
HHamp5246@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
> In a message dated 3/14/2005 4:06:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> pattersontom@xxxxxxxxxx.net writes:
>
>
>
>>When they remove the "fully self contained" requirement, this fine product
>>from Airstream will be allowed to attend rallies. I know it would be
>>welcome now -- just not allowed!
>
>
> Hey Tom,
>
> It was at the rally in Vermont.
>
> Hunter
>
> http://members.aol.com/ILuvBrady/summer2004.htm
>
> Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
> but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy
> shit...what a ride!"
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:04:47 EST
From: HHamp5246@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] WBCCI acceptance of other trailers, bar none
In a message dated 3/14/2005 5:57:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net writes:
> Hunter:
>
> So did you test it out? How does it corner? ;)
>
> Fred C.
Better than I did after testing it <g> It was also in Lansing. I went up to
Dickie and asked for a scotch and soda..... he laughed. He remembered me
from the Homecoming (his wife and I know the same people) and we got talking. I
told him I have designed the *perfect* Airstream. I tried to explain it and he
jumped in the gator, grabbed his designer and the dogs and I climbed in the
back. He chauffeured us back to my trailer and I showed him the design. He
told me to send in plans....
I did. I'm still waiting for the HLH, it'll make the CCD extinct <g>
Hunter, who has photos of Dickie chauffeuring me
http://members.aol.com/ILuvBrady/summer2004.htm
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy
shit...what a ride!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:47:20 -0800
From: Chris Koehn <timberguides@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] 1972 service manual available
I have an original 1972 Airstream service manual. Came with our coach.
I have a 1979 coach. Until a few weeks ago we made due with the wrong
manual. I found a used 1979 manual while visiting the good folks at
Oasis RV in Tucson. So I'd like to part with the 1972 manual.
The new/used manual cost me $55. I'd be willing to part with the 1972
for the same dough plus shipping.
We laminated the cover at Kinko's in clear plastic to improve
wearablitiy. There are a few notations made by a P.O. It is in
otherwise good and 100% usable condition. Please E mail me off-list if
you're interested.
Cheers,
Chris Koehn
in Joshua Tree CA today
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:53:38 -0500
From: "Brian Brown" <bbrown3996@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] need wiring diagrahm..
I am needing a wiring diagrahm of the quick disconnect cord that goes from
the Tow Vehicle to the Trailer. 7 Pin connection
I have seen it , but can't find it.. HELP..
:)
thanks
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:06:51 -0500
From: "Wally" <maltnhops@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wally's original plans built trailers
Fred,
Thanks for the mention. I like the sound of "Today's Wally". I'm no Wally
Byam, it's fun to dream.
~Today's Wally
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> Today's Wally made a strong point with exclusivity...
> Fred Coldwell
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:06:37 -0600
From: Dean L <dean@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] need wiring diagrahm..
It is simple... Just run it from the "Battery Charge Line" in your
connecter through the emergency cord to pin 7 .. When you pull the pin
if your hitch breaks it will apply 12 VDC from your trailer battery to
the breaks.. Full Stop... So do't ever pull the pin out or your
breaks may burn out and your battery will die.. Put the pin back in
to reset and make normal.
Dean
On Mar 14, 2005, at 7:53 PM, Brian Brown wrote:
> I am needing a wiring diagrahm of the quick disconnect cord that goes
> from the Tow Vehicle to the Trailer. 7 Pin connection
>
> I have seen it , but can't find it.. HELP..
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:31:50 -0500
From: "Brian Brown" <BBrown3996@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] need wiring diagrahm..
Dean.
I need the wiring diagrahm that shows all the wires into the adapter that
plugs into the trailer from the truck. Encluding all the lights, and brake
controller power lines.
It's the circular picture/diagrahm.
Thanks
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean L" <dean@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] need wiring diagrahm..
> It is simple... Just run it from the "Battery Charge Line" in your
> connecter through the emergency cord to pin 7 .. When you pull the pin if
> your hitch breaks it will apply 12 VDC from your trailer battery to the
> breaks.. Full Stop... So do't ever pull the pin out or your breaks may
> burn out and your battery will die.. Put the pin back in to reset and
> make normal.
> Dean
> On Mar 14, 2005, at 7:53 PM, Brian Brown wrote:
>
>> I am needing a wiring diagrahm of the quick disconnect cord that goes
>> from the Tow Vehicle to the Trailer. 7 Pin connection
>>
>> I have seen it , but can't find it.. HELP..
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 18:44:59 -0800
From: "Cruiserbob" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] need wiring diagrahm..
I've seen the circular plug diagram many times on the list. Someone even
made a cute one out of plain text. Hope they're tuned in now!
Are you under your rig with a flash light and a BlackBerry?
Come on guys. Cut the guy some slack.
He need this pronto.
Bob Kiger
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Brown [mailto:BBrown3996@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 6:32 PM
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: Re: [VAL] need wiring diagrahm..
>
>
> Dean.
>
> I need the wiring diagrahm that shows all the wires into the adapter that
> plugs into the trailer from the truck. Encluding all the lights,
> and brake
> controller power lines.
>
> It's the circular picture/diagrahm.
>
> Thanks
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dean L" <dean@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [VAL] need wiring diagrahm..
>
>
> > It is simple... Just run it from the "Battery Charge Line" in your
> > connecter through the emergency cord to pin 7 .. When you pull
> the pin if
> > your hitch breaks it will apply 12 VDC from your trailer battery to the
> > breaks.. Full Stop... So do't ever pull the pin out or your
> breaks may
> > burn out and your battery will die.. Put the pin back in to reset and
> > make normal.
> > Dean
> > On Mar 14, 2005, at 7:53 PM, Brian Brown wrote:
> >
> >> I am needing a wiring diagrahm of the quick disconnect cord that goes
> >> from the Tow Vehicle to the Trailer. 7 Pin connection
> >>
> >> I have seen it , but can't find it.. HELP..
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> > http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:51:36 -0600
From: Daniel Childress <daniel@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] need wiring diagrahm..
Brian
Contacted you of line with attachment. Let me know if this is what
you are looking for.
Dan
14148
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:58:34 -0600
From: Daniel Childress <daniel@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] need wiring diagrahm..
Brian
If you need additional information you could try
www.airstreamforums.com and search for wiring diagram. Lots of other
maybe useful information also.
Dan 14148
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:09:36 -0800
From: William Kerfoot <wkerfoot@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] Grants Pass Rally
Well Folks,
After getting everyone excited about the Vintage Rally this June in
Grants Pass, OR and everybody worked up about WBCCI rules, buddy rallies
and such, we will not be at the rally (sorry Joann Wheatley). Why you
ask WE ARE GOING TO DISNEYWORLD not really, but I have made plans with
Peter Ryner in Tampa to pick up the 1954 double door Liner which he is
so graciously storing until it has a new owner, now us. Pictures at:
http://www.tompatterson.com/gallery/ Since I still work, my vacation
time is limited and the choice is to pick up the Liner and hopefully
have enough work done to take it to Salem, OR for the 2006 International
Rally, instead of attending the Vintage Rally, although we did enjoy the
Vintage Rally we attended in Santa Maria in 2002.
We are now a two Airstream family.
The thing that has excited us about this trailer since Bill Pentheny
first shared it with the list is the two doors and the rear bedroom.
This is a big step for us, although I am mechanically ept and can
woodwork, I have not undertaken this type of restoration or remodel. I
know from a recent kitchen remodel in our home and watching This Old
House that you never know what you will find once you take the walls down.
Please wish us luck and I will be asking for your valuable assistance as
this work progresses. My current thought is to restore the Liner
similar to what it would have looked like in 1954, but with all the
modern conveniences (two holding tanks etc) similar to what Patti has
done with her Pearl. My wife already has ideas on the decor. If anyone
has any pictures or floor plans that they would like to share please
do. Also, if anyone has period appropriate appliances, such as an oven
please let us know.
We will take pictures of the entire process and document all the work,
maybe even a website.
Thanks in advance.
Bill Kerfoot
1973 Dodge W200 PowerWagon
1977 Lincoln Continental
1979 23' Airstream Safari
and now a 1954 30' Double Door Liner
Orange, CA
http://www.tompatterson.com/gallery/Bill-Beth-1979-Safari
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 22:24:40 -0600
From: overlander64 <overlander64@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] need wiring diagrahm..
Greetings
> I am needing a wiring diagrahm of the quick disconnect
cord that goes from the Tow Vehicle to the Trailer. 7 Pin
connection
>
> I have seen it , but can't find it.. HELP..
>
> :)
>
> thanks
>
The wiring diagrams that I have bookmarked for the Bargman
connectors as wired on the Vintage Airstreams include:
1964-1965 Bargman Connector Wiring:
http://www.airstream.com/airstream/product_line/customer_service/docs/7wayplug1964-65.pdf
1966-1981 Bargman Connector Wiring:
http://www.airstream.com/airstream/product_line/customer_service/docs/7wayplug1966-81.pdf
1982-1984 and 1989-2002 Bargman Connector Wiring:
http://www.airstream.com/airstream/product_line/customer_service/docs/7wayplug1982-84-1989-02.pdf
1985-1988 Bargman Connector Wiring:
http://www.airstream.com/airstream/product_line/customer_service/docs/9wayplug1985-88.pdf
Industry Standard Bargman Connector Wiring:
http://www.marksrv.com/wiring.htm
Note: that depending upon your e-mail client, you may need
to copy the link and paste to your browser's address window
if the link spans more than one line.
Hope that one of these will be the one that you need.
Kevin
Kevin D. Allen
WBCCI/VAC/Free Wheelers/Computer Club #6359
1964 Overlander International/1999 GMC K2500 Suburban (7400
VORTEC/4.10 Differentials)
1978 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre/1975 Cadillac Eldorado
Convertible (8.2 Liter V8/2.70 Final Drive)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:43:59 -0800
From: rics <rics@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] need wiring diagrahm..
hi nancy, i will be getting a few bids for the tree in the next few
days but we wont be doing anything with the tree til we tell you what
our findings are. perhaps we could have a glass of wine on our deck
when they are doing the dirty deed.
my best email address, the one i check everyday about 10 times, unless
i am not home, is the webehere one. ta-ta, r
On Mar 14, 2005, at 8:24 PM, overlander64 wrote:
> Greetings
>
>> I am needing a wiring diagrahm of the quick disconnect
> cord that goes from the Tow Vehicle to the Trailer. 7 Pin
> connection
>>
>> I have seen it , but can't find it.. HELP..
>>
>> :)
>>
>> thanks
>>
> The wiring diagrams that I have bookmarked for the Bargman
> connectors as wired on the Vintage Airstreams include:
>
> 1964-1965 Bargman Connector Wiring:
> http://www.airstream.com/airstream/product_line/customer_service/docs/
> 7wayplug1964-65.pdf
>
> 1966-1981 Bargman Connector Wiring:
> http://www.airstream.com/airstream/product_line/customer_service/docs/
> 7wayplug1966-81.pdf
>
> 1982-1984 and 1989-2002 Bargman Connector Wiring:
> http://www.airstream.com/airstream/product_line/customer_service/docs/
> 7wayplug1982-84-1989-02.pdf
>
> 1985-1988 Bargman Connector Wiring:
> http://www.airstream.com/airstream/product_line/customer_service/docs/
> 9wayplug1985-88.pdf
>
> Industry Standard Bargman Connector Wiring:
> http://www.marksrv.com/wiring.htm
>
> Note: that depending upon your e-mail client, you may need
> to copy the link and paste to your browser's address window
> if the link spans more than one line.
>
> Hope that one of these will be the one that you need.
>
> Kevin
>
> Kevin D. Allen
> WBCCI/VAC/Free Wheelers/Computer Club #6359
> 1964 Overlander International/1999 GMC K2500 Suburban (7400
> VORTEC/4.10 Differentials)
> 1978 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre/1975 Cadillac Eldorado
> Convertible (8.2 Liter V8/2.70 Final Drive)
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
>
>
Ric Seaberg
Website:
http://www.ricseaberg.com
CDs available at:
http://www.cdbaby.com/all/ricseaberg
And at Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002T3X62/
qid=1094391374/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl15/002-1921195-3092051?
v=glance&s=music&n=507846
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:05:37 -0800
From: Rob Super <robsuper@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Fantastic Fan - Automatic?
> I have just seen a lot of plastic on SOB's and that's what turns
> yellow and
> brittle over time.
True. Ergo: paint. Aluminum paint. Available in cans and spray cans. :-)
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:39:55 -0800
From: "Cruiserbob" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Fantastic Fan - Paint them aluminum color on outside
Rob,
That is a very sensible idea! Permit me to translate. Aluminum spray over
Fantastic vents look almost like stock, and have the advantage of added
protection to the plastic from harmful ultraviolet rays + allowing the
latest techology, service and parts availablility without a pageant. If
this goes too much further Fantastic fans will be making aluminum covers :)
Thanks . . . your tip is a keeper!
Bob Kiger
Oceanside, CA
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Super [mailto:robsuper@xxxxxxxxxx.net]
>
> > I have just seen a lot of plastic on SOB's and that's what turns
> > yellow and
> > brittle over time.
>
> True. Ergo: paint. Aluminum paint. Available in cans and spray cans. :-)
>
> Rob
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:43:09 -0500
From: "kodiak66joe" <kodiak66joe@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: WBCCI acceptance of other trailers
I would argue that many if not all Airstreams with only a Black Water tank
could be interpreted to be "fully self contained", at least if this was
their only shortcoming. If I remember correctly, the Owners Manual for our
'66 Overlander (now gone, so I can't check) stated that if "wash water"
(gray water) needed to be captured, all you had to do was cap the outlet and
open the valve from the waste (black) tank and the wash water would back up
into that tank. Of couse this tank didn't have the capacity of today's
trailers, but it could get you by in a pinch for a couple of days if you
were miserly with water. (I never did find out the capacity of that tank,
as it was not listed in the owners manual - I always guessed it was in the
10-15 gallon range.)
I do understand how a Wee Wind might fail the "fully self contained" clause
on more points than lack of a gray water tank, however (i.e. lack of fresh
water tank, black water tank, 12V electrical system, LP refigerator, etc.).
Joe
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
. . . Heck, any Airstream built before wash water tanks were installed
around 1973/74 may not meet a strict interpretation of "fully self
contained", thus "dismembering" much of the VAC (I hope not to give anyone
bad ideas here). So I wrote to my Region 11 officials, who independently
proposed an amendment deleting the "fully self contained" requirement from
the WBCCI Constitution. . .
------------------------------
End of VAL Digest V2 #187
*************************
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