The Vintage Airstream E-mail ListDigest Archive Files
VAL Digest V2 #159
VAL Digest Tuesday, February 15 2005 Volume 02 : Number 159
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Topics in Today's Digest:
[VAL] Overlander toilet
[VAL] Updating my address book
Re: [VAL] Overlander Toilet Question
Re: [VAL] Overlander toilet
[VAL] Solid rivet sizes?
Re: [VAL] Overlander Toilet Question
Re: [VAL] Overlander toilet
Re: [VAL] Overlander Toilet Question
[VAL] Siphoning the black tank...
Re: [VAL] Overlander toilet
Re: [VAL] Overlander toilet
[VAL] 1980 Caravelle for sale
[VAL] '54 Liner
Re: [VAL] Overlander toilet
Re: [VAL] Overlander toilet
Re: [VAL] Solid rivet sizes?
[VAL] project
Re: [VAL] RE: VAL membership dues and History of the VAC
Re: [VAL] '54 Liner split rims
Re: [VAL] '54 Liner
[VAL] Going To Scaly Mountain N.C
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Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:33:38 -0800 (PST)
From: M Tate <firebirdesprit@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Overlander toilet
We have a "65 Overlander and I have replaced the floor and the holding tank. Try
really hard not to tear up the tank. The toilet flange screws into the tank on the
original tank and was a weak point in the construction, in my opinion. If you have
the bolts undone, the toilet should come up, perhaps it might be held down by
caulking, etc... I put in a Aqua magic 4 because there are not any replacement parts
to be found, at least that I found. It required the bench opening to be enlarged
( CAREFULLY !! ). I used a moto-tool and numerous trial fittings to get the opening
cut correctly. An added advantage is that the commode in now higher and easier to use,
not to mention is modern construction and can stockpile replacement parts. Now to
digress, the flange goes through the floor and screws into the tank. Trying to
unscrew this often cracks the tank. My tank was broken beyond repair when I bought
her, so I put in a new tank, ( Inland RV can make an exact replacement if needed).
Floor
replacement entails a lot of work and a fair amount of creativity, as I found out.
Let me know if I can be of assistance. Best of luck!!!
Mark, Pennie and Rachel
'65 Overlander Land Yacht
- ---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:32:03 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mark Tate <firebirdesprit@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Updating my address book
Hi
I am using a new service to keep in contact with my friends. Use the link below to become
part of my address book. In the future I will be able to see any changes in your contact details.
http://www.bebo.com/fr2/4635134a3480636b74005803c276481727d18
Thanks.
Mark
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:22:02 -0500
From: <Balloon@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Overlander Toilet Question
Chuck, Lynn,
If you look at the flush valve on your toilet, I think you
may find thats its nothing more than a regular "drain" valve
turned horz. from Thetford. I was looking at mine one day
while I was draining the dump tank. Looks like the same
valve to me, it just has a connector to the top via the foot
pedal, instead of the "T" handle that we all know and love
to pull up when we dump our tanks.
Paul Waddell
66 Overlander
66 Safari
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "kodiak66joe" <kodiak66joe@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Overlander Toilet Question
> To my knowledge, there are no specific replacement parts available for the
> old Thetforld Slide-O-Matics used in the 1964 to 1966 Airstreams. The
fact
> that they mount under the fiberglass surround makes replacement with a
newer
> toilet almost impossible without cutting the surround. Look at enough
> pictures of '64-'66 Airstream and you are bound to see a few photo's with
a
> newer toilet sticking up thru the surround. Most parts for a
Slide-O-matic
> will probably have to come from salvaged trailers.
>
> However, if your Water Valve leaks, there are options. Before we sold our
> '66 Overlander, I had to replace the Water Valve - the valve that controls
> the fresh water used during a flush. I was able to make one from a newer
> Thetford toilet work. It was plastic, where the original was brass, but
it
> worked. I never had to deal with a leaking flush valve, so I can't tell
you
> if one from a newer Thetford might possibly work.
>
> Let me state a few words of caution, however. While I was researching my
> options on the Water Valve, I found some information that stated that the
> old risers used in these toilets are very brittle. I think that is the
part
> you (or was it Forrest?) are saying is stuck to the floor. This is the
part
> between the Flush Valve and the floor or black tank. Word is that these
> risers can easily crumble and are not replaceable. Take extreme care if
you
> try to remove it - luckily I didn't have to risk it.
>
> I will also admit that just trying to figure out how to take a
Slide-O-Matic
> apart without removing the fiberglass surround looks like a daunting task.
> To get the Flush value out, I wonder if you have to take out the Bowl, the
> Riser, or neither, and in what order. Good Luck!
>
> Joe
> '85 25' Sovereign
> But looking for another vintage unit
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <c-l@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> To: "airstream list" <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 3:43 PM
> Subject: [VAL] Overlander Toilet Question
>
>
> We have a 1965 Overlander, with the toilet under the formed fiberglass
> seat/shelf. The slide valve leaks when the pedel is depressed. I removed
the
> toilet, disassembled the toilet, and found cracks in the plastic slide
unit.
> Does anyone know of replacementb parts for a Thetford that old, does
anyone
> one have an old toilet with that part servicable, or know of a replacement
> toilet without cutting out the fiberglass? Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Chuck & Lynn
> 1965 Overlander
> 1949 Airstream Southwind
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
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>
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>
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:31:22 -0700
From: "Forrest McClure" <forrest@xxxxxxxxxx.org>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Overlander toilet
Mark,
If I understand what you are saying, the floor flange has the two hold down
bolts (that connects to the toilet base), plus there are wood screws around
the perimeter of the flange to hold it in place, plus the flange itself
threads into the opening of the holding tank? So, as long as the toilet is
stuck to the flange it will also be stuck to the holding tank? Since the
wood flooring is rotten I may be able to turn the toilet counter-clockwise
to unscrew the flange from the holding tank? Does this sound right?
Thanks,
Forrest
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "M Tate" <firebirdesprit@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 2:33 AM
Subject: [VAL] Overlander toilet
> We have a "65 Overlander and I have replaced the floor and the holding
tank. Try really hard not to tear up the tank. The toilet flange screws into
the tank on the original tank and was a weak point in the construction, in
my opinion. If you have the bolts undone, the toilet should come up, perhaps
it might be held down by caulking, etc... the flange goes through the floor
and screws into the tank. Trying to unscrew this often cracks the tank.
>
> Mark, Pennie and Rachel
> '65 Overlander Land Yacht
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:35:07 -0800
From: eric <ericm341@xxxxxxxxxx.ca>
Subject: [VAL] Solid rivet sizes?
Hello listers!
We bought a 1967 caravel a few months ago, and i've been working on her.
"Annabel" in my spare time.
She's completely gutted because of extreme ant infestation and rotten floor.
I,m now ready to solidify the body from the inside using 2x4's screwed to the
ribs etc....
Lifting the body of the frame etc....
You know the routine..
What i don't know is what size of solid rivets were used originally to hold
the body to the floor c channel.
I am going to use bucked rivets to re attach body to frame because i don't
think olympic rivets would be strong enough.
Got any " riveting " advice??
Thanks!
Eric
North Vancouver
B.C.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:09:02 EST
From: Dillonvdill@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Overlander Toilet Question
I'm no mechanicle wiz but would one of the new toilets that flushes with a
lever behind the seat? It doesn't have a foot peddle. I've seen them in
several RV catalogues.
Vanessa
1958 Overlander 26'
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:36:03 EST
From: JSmith1805@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Overlander toilet
Is your Overland a rear bath? with the bench and side of the sink all one
peace of plastic?
It sounds similar to yhe setup on my Tradewind.Previous owner replaced the
toilet with a marine toilet it looked that he did the final fitting with a chain
saw. the floor was rotted out and I replaced the bath floor fabricated a
divied tank(gray and black)from plywood glassed inside and out. bonder it to the
floor almost the end of provlem the weakness were the plastic gate valves 2 had
the handles pill out. settled the provlem(I hope) wsing a marine sewarge pump
for black water and bildge pump for gray water.Can now move waste up hill and
dump in the clean out at home.
Jim Smith
ps if pumps fail can always syphon out the tanks but that !st mouthfull will
be rough
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:34:59 -0700
From: "gshippen" <gshippen@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Overlander Toilet Question
Hi Chuck and Lynn,
I have a 1966 Overlander in which I replaced the toilet. I purchased and
installed the ceramic Sea___?___ brand toilet (the trailer is at storage
right now or I would check the correct brand name.) Nevertheless I removed
the old toilet which was unfortunately discarded and installed the new
model. It is a short profile model and rests up on a metal bracket yet
resides mostly under the white plastic enclosure. The flushing peddle
slipped through the existing hole with a little altering. It has worked
wonderfully for 12 years. If I had it to do again I would have purchased
the "large" bowl size, simply because it would be closer to the size of a
standard home toilet.
If you would like more info I will be happy to elaborate.
Good luck, GAS
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:21:20 -0800
From: "Mark" <mark@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Siphoning the black tank...
Hey Jim,
I have the type of mind which makes pictures as I read...when you wrote "...if
pumps fail can always syphon out the tanks but that !st mouthfull will be
rough", I nearly spit out my coffee!
Thanks for that, Jim...made my day!
Mark in Modesto
1962 Tradewind
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:48:45 -0700
From: "Forrest McClure" <forrest@xxxxxxxxxx.org>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Overlander toilet
Mark,
Thanks to you and to everyone for their input on this. Mark, your mentioning
that the floor flange threads into the holding tank was the information I
needed to remove the toilet without damaging the holding tank! When I was
trying to visualize the problem, all I could see in my head was the type of
metal floor flange that only functions to hold the toilet to the floor.
Today, I went out and began turning the entire toilet counter-clockwise and
initially the wood screws holding the flange to the plywood floor resisted,
but the wood was so rotten that after a half-turn it began turning easily
and I was able to unscrew the flange from the holding tank and lift the
toilet off.
Then I turned the toilet upside down to see if I could pry the flange away
from the riser. It would hardly budge. I thought that if a genuine bees wax
ring had been used perhaps, after 39 yrs. it had set up like cement. I
remember that back then the wax rings were not as pliable as todays and that
plumbers used to soak the bees wax ring in hot water to soften them. So, I
put the toilet out in the sun (we're having a fairly warm day today) to see
if warming it up would loosen the flange. It did, but only slightly. So, I
began to pry it off as gently as possible working my way around the
perimeter, and finally got it off. There was no wax ring, or foam ring...
some PO had substituted silicone adhesive!!! No wonder it would not come
loose, it WAS glued together.
Still, it is apart now, and it was a real mental block for me. I couldn't
get myself to work on anything else in the trailer cause I was so hung up on
getting the toilet out. Now it is out without damage to anything, and it
looks like the holding tank is in good shape, so I am very happy!
Thanks again to everyone,
Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:52:45 -0800 (PST)
From: WANDA NELSON <wandaa@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Overlander toilet
Forrest - did you used to be a technical reccruiter?
Forrest McClure <forrest@xxxxxxxxxx.org> wrote:Mark,
Thanks to you and to everyone for their input on this. Mark, your mentioning
that the floor flange threads into the holding tank was the information I
needed to remove the toilet without damaging the holding tank! When I was
trying to visualize the problem, all I could see in my head was the type of
metal floor flange that only functions to hold the toilet to the floor.
Today, I went out and began turning the entire toilet counter-clockwise and
initially the wood screws holding the flange to the plywood floor resisted,
but the wood was so rotten that after a half-turn it began turning easily
and I was able to unscrew the flange from the holding tank and lift the
toilet off.
Then I turned the toilet upside down to see if I could pry the flange away
from the riser. It would hardly budge. I thought that if a genuine bees wax
ring had been used perhaps, after 39 yrs. it had set up like cement. I
remember that back then the wax rings were not as pliable as todays and that
plumbers used to soak the bees wax ring in hot water to soften them. So, I
put the toilet out in the sun (we're having a fairly warm day today) to see
if warming it up would loosen the flange. It did, but only slightly. So, I
began to pry it off as gently as possible working my way around the
perimeter, and finally got it off. There was no wax ring, or foam ring...
some PO had substituted silicone adhesive!!! No wonder it would not come
loose, it WAS glued together.
Still, it is apart now, and it was a real mental block for me. I couldn't
get myself to work on anything else in the trailer cause I was so hung up on
getting the toilet out. Now it is out without damage to anything, and it
looks like the holding tank is in good shape, so I am very happy!
Thanks again to everyone,
Forrest
Wanda Nelson
Senior Consultant
Path Finders Recruiting
505-899-5032
wanda@4jobpath.com
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 18:45:12 -0600
From: <wildcrw@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] 1980 Caravelle for sale
It turned out to be more than we have time for.
See ad in VAC Classifieds.
Becky
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:21:25 -0500
From: "Peter Ryner" <pryner@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] '54 Liner
Hello List,
Today was a historic day. Picked up the '54 and pulled it about 80 miles
with no incident. Florida DMV was nice enough to provide a temp tag for a
mere $5 and I had put some trailer lights on to be totally legal. I need to
start a title search now to convince Fla to give me a title. Not sure what
all will be involved yet. We did leave a lot of tire tread pieces along the
highway as the street side tires simply disintegrated. They held together
enough to keep towing though - about 40 MPH. The rig will definitely need a
new set of tires to be moved again. I've got to find someone to work on the
split rims first. On that note, I have seen threads about replacement rims.
Can someone provide some info on that subject? As I remember split rims are
very dangerous. The trailer is still available to anyone who wants to
restore it. It needs a total rebuild, some body work as a tree fell on it
during the past hurricanes, and of course tires, propane tanks and as far as
I can tell most everything else. I didn't have time to see if it had any
tanks left under the trailer, but there are none inside. About the only
thing inside is the sink and sink base and one cabinet over the sink. It
has an AC, but obviously not working and the cover is missing. The front
vent cover is also missing but it is under cover now. There was a flimsy
piece of sheet metal over the top but only lasted for the first 5 miles of
towing. Luckily we saw it coming off so we stopped and got it down before
it flew into any other vehicles. Again, if you are interested in the
trailer, please contact me off list. I can keep it for some months, but not
forever and simply don't have the time for the total restoration.
Pete
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 18:57:18 -0700
From: "Forrest McClure" <forrest@xxxxxxxxxx.org>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Overlander toilet
Wanda,
I don't even know what a technical recruiter is, sorry. But I am a little
embarrassed about being so enthusiastic in my posting.
Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:13:59 -0600
From: "J. Anderson" <janderson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Overlander toilet
Forrest, your description of removing the toilet was great; really well
written and clear. As I read it I thought, if I ever wind up doing this
task, I'm going to dig out this post. Thanks for the insights!
John
Forrest McClure wrote:
>But I am a little
>embarrassed about being so enthusiastic in my posting.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 18:32:07 -0800
From: Uwe Salwender <salwender@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Solid rivet sizes?
Hey Eric,
I used rivet size 5/32.
I purchased my rivets and tools from Aircraft spruce.
www.aircraftspruce.com
They have the bucking bar and riveting shank for this size as well.
Bucking bar: AT670
Shank: SM10-4705 ( fits chinese air hammers perfectly) I bought a
cheap one with a speed control on it, and it works wonderful. ( $ 9.99
US at www.harborfreight.com)
Rivets: AN470A sizes 5/32 I go t assorted length to fit individual
applications.
I found that these rivet heas closly resemble the original
installation. I don;t think that that is actually the original size.
You will also need some 5/32 drill bits, btw.
Best wishes,
Uwe Salwender
Orange CA
On Monday, February 14, 2005, at 10:35 AM, eric wrote:
> Hello listers!
> We bought a 1967 caravel a few months ago, and i've been working on
> her.
> "Annabel" in my spare time.
> She's completely gutted because of extreme ant infestation and rotten
> floor.
> I,m now ready to solidify the body from the inside using 2x4's screwed
> to the
> ribs etc....
> Lifting the body of the frame etc....
> You know the routine..
> What i don't know is what size of solid rivets were used originally to
> hold
> the body to the floor c channel.
> I am going to use bucked rivets to re attach body to frame because i
> don't
> think olympic rivets would be strong enough.
> Got any " riveting " advice??
> Thanks!
> Eric
> North Vancouver
> B.C.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 23:03:41 -0500
From: "Nick Novia" <nicholas_s_novia@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] project
Hello Wayne...Linda...
Hope all is fine with you guys! I just wanted to see...how interested you
are in taking on my Safari as a project. I'm in no hurry. Just keep me
informed. I'm very close to getting rif of it...if I don't fix it in a year
or two.
Some news... Jenn's gonna have a baby...In August I guess! I just got my
real estate license....no time for anything...but I'll need that camper
soon...!
I do miss it. The whole damn interior is in my basement!
Keep in touch pal!
Nick Novia
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 23:04:25 -0500
From: "Nick Novia" <nicholas_s_novia@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] RE: VAL membership dues and History of the VAC
ignore that last public post. <g>
NN
#2577
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 23:34:53 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald Johnson" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] '54 Liner split rims
A few split rims have made them all suspect. There have been a number of
variations on the split rim and how its assembled. With parts count from two
to 4 or 5. Some split rims have been known to separate the first time the tire
was inflated with enough force to remove any appendage of the tire
repairman in the path of the loose rim piece. That can have included arms,
legs and heads. A few rims developed the capacity for coming apart (on
light trucks) while rolling down the road leading to wrecks. These two
classes of failures have tainted all split rims so that they aren't considered
safe to use or to assemble. Worse those who know how to work with the
safely and the necessary tools are gone from the modern tire shops. And
their insurance companies don't want the hazards for the workers or the
liability if the rim comes apart on the road. Some involve stretching a steel
ring. Like stretching a 1/4 x 1/2" steel bar bent into a hoop. It not stretched
right it doesn't latch and slips loose then the tire is inflated.
Very few tire shops will touch a split rim. I had some fixed on my '65 F-350 10
or 15 years ago and the help in that tire shop left it to the manager. I never
saw help so wiling to do everything else. Doing 7 (dually plus a spare) took
the manager all afternoon and all evening. Wasn't cheap either. But it was
nowhere as expensive as having custom rims made to fit.
As for the 54 Liner, a look through the archives should turn up suitable
replacement rims. These are the things that have to be considered:
1. Rim diameter.
2. Rim width.
3. Offset. That's the distance the mounting surface is away from the middle
of the rim. It can be either positive or negative.
4. Bolt count.
5. Bolt circle diameter.
6. Center hole diameter.
7. Bolt or stud diameter.
8. Load rating. Its load rating that gets one into trouble using automobile
rims on a trailer. A weak rim can let the tire go or break the rim when
loaded to the full capacity of typical trailer load range D or E tires.
Its likely some 50s vintage pickup rim fits the Liner, but I don't know which
one it is.
Gerald J.
WBCCI, VAC #5623
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 00:52:13 EST
From: Dillonvdill@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] '54 Liner
Congradulations on saving the Superliner!
I wonder if you could take pics of the front room, the bath, bedroom area and
kithen to see more of what were working with. About split rims, I had a '56
Airstream that had split rims and I towed it to Mexico and back without
insident.
I replaced one at Les Shcwaab Tires ( a discount tire chain out West). I
would like to here from other members whats so dangerous about split rims, If
they were
dangerous why did they allow them on the highways? I like them from an
authenticity point of view because they take the original baby moon hubcaps. My
1958 Overlander came with all four factory hub caps which is very rare. Am I
an
accident ready to happen?
Thanks for any info.
Vanessa
'58 overlander
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 00:52:59 -0500
From: "Bobby Gill" <gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Going To Scaly Mountain N.C
Hello all.
Has anyone been around Scaly Mountain North Carolina and have a campground
they would recommend?
Thanks
Bobby
------------------------------
End of VAL Digest V2 #159
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