VAL Digest V2 #132

VAL Digest         Wednesday, January 19 2005         Volume 02 : Number 132




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Topics in Today's Digest:

Re: [VAL] copper  tubing vs. other metals.
Re: [VAL] copper tubing vs. other metals.
[VAL] Re: Disc Brakes
Re: [VAL] Re: Disc Brakes
[VAL] Vintage 2nd Step
[VAL] Springfield to I-81 in Virginia
RE: [VAL] Springfield to I-81 in Virginia
Re: [VAL] Springfield to I-81 in Virginia
Re: [VAL] Springfield to I-81 in Virginia
RE: [VAL] copper  tubing vs. other metals.
Re: [VAL] Springfield to I-81 in Virginia
Re: [VAL] Springfield to I-81 in Virginia
RE: [VAL] Springfield to I-81 in Virginia

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Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 01:03:51 -0500
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] copper  tubing vs. other metals.

Copper tubing was used in houses way back when maybe is what you are looking 
for.  Old Airstreams used household equipment, didn't they?

Tom

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Toby Folwick" <toby_folwick@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 12:30 AM
Subject: [VAL] copper tubing vs. other metals.


> Just a random question.
>
> can anyone explain why copper tubing would be used for
> a water system as opposed to say, stainless, or any
> other metal.
>
> assume PEX is not an option.  Was it a cost thing? a
> weight thing?
>
> I'm just curious.
>
> Toby
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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> Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:10:07 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald Johnson" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] copper tubing vs. other metals.

Cost and ease of use leads to copper. Copper is soft enough to bend (at 
east the tubing grades) and to be flared for good connections. Copper 
solders easily in fittings. Other than lead from older solder, copper doesn't 
put much into the water that is harmful to people. Stainless steel tends to 
be hard and difficult to solder, needs aggressive fluxes to solder at all at 
higher temperature than ordinary solder for copper. It tends to not bend or 
flare. And stainless costs several times the price of copper.

Iron pipes are heavy and require threading for joints. And tend to rust. In 
houses and businesses copper was more costly than iron, though the cost of 
installation of iron pipes has made it more costly in recent times.

PEX is more costly than copper but so much easier to install that the lowered 
labor  costs more than make up for the material costs making the PEX 
installation the least expensive.

Gerald J.

- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:30:07 EST
From: AlanTBird@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re: Disc Brakes

My 79 Ambassador had the orig. A/S issued hydraulic 4 wheel discs that  
worked fantastically when in tip top shape!
OUR BOY ANDY makes the replacement pads and can rebuild the calipers.
 
I RARELY See them anymore as Dealers HATE EM and talk owners into pulling  
them and installing elec. drum brakes! You can tell when they have been removed  
as there is a space on the tounge behind the tanks where the vacuum servo 
used  to live!
 
Cheers!
 
AlanT...PHX AZ

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 07:06:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Uwe Salwender <salwender@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Disc Brakes

- --- AlanTBird@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:

> My 79 Ambassador had the orig. A/S issued hydraulic
> 4 wheel discs that  
> worked fantastically when in tip top shape!
> OUR BOY ANDY makes the replacement pads and can
> rebuild the calipers.
>  
> I RARELY See them anymore as Dealers HATE EM and
> talk owners into pulling  
> them and installing elec. drum brakes! You can tell
> when they have been removed  
> as there is a space on the tounge behind the tanks
> where the vacuum servo 
> used  to live!
>  
> Cheers!
>  
> AlanT...PHX AZ

These early factory Airstream disc brake systems can
be upgraded to electric/hydraulic quite easily. The
original calipers and discs stay in place, and a new
e/h actuator is added to the tongue, where the old one
was, or ideally inside a closet right over the axle
system.
The actuator runs on 12V from the battery or tow
vehicle's charging line, and gets it's proportinal
input from the vehicles brake controller. A vacuum
connection to the tow vehicle is no longer needed,
which makes this especially attractive to Diesel
owners.
AS I mentioned before, I will use a system similar to
this as part of the modernization of my 1963
Overlander.
Best,
Uwe Salwender
Orange CA

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:23:53 -0500
From: Rick Langer <farreach@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Vintage 2nd Step

I have the second step setup and I agree it looks cool, but I have
reservations about using it.  As you will notice in the pictures the second
step is cantilevered from the first step which itself is cantilevered on its
hinge mechanism.  When my second step is installed it has a very springy
feel when  one steps on it.  In my view the torque created by adding this
additional step is just asking for trouble.  The pull down steps on these
units are vulnerable to hard use and rust.  The slots on the hinges tend to
enlarge themselves and then tend not to want to lock in place, on one side
or the other.  This happened on my trailer and I welded the slot smaller,
but I expect that I will have to weld it again sometime in the future.

Replacing the step/hinge unit appears to be a difficult job.  So my
recommendation is put the second step in, take some pictures and then put
the second step back in the barn and use box for the step when needed.

Rick Langer
'66 GT #3847, VAC

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 20:15:45 -0500
From: <Balloon@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Springfield to I-81 in Virginia

I plan to attend the 50th in Springfield, Mo. this June. On the way out
from Va., I plan to run I-70 to I-44 to Springfield, Mo.. Mapquest 
says it's about 1,063 miles from Front Royal, Va. to Springfield, Mo.
going that way. Anyone know of a better way?
But on the way back, I was thinking about running
I-44 up to St. Louis, then take old RT50 west back to I-81 in Va.. Has
anyone ever made this run? If so, good/bad/fair idea? I figure leave
International on the Monday the 4th, then take up to Fri/Sat. to get back.
My guess, that would be about 200/250 miles a day. It might even be a
good chance to run a caravan back to the east and from I-81 people 
go north/south?? Any thoughts?

Paul Waddell
WBCCI/WDCU/VAC 1270

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:31:21 -0600
From: "Kevin D. Allen" <overlander64@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Springfield to I-81 in Virginia

Greetings Paul!

I am not a fan of Interstate travel when towing either of my coaches, and
have made the trip from Anna, IL to Hays, KS frequently entirely avoiding
the Interstate system.  From Sikeston, Missouri, I would recommend US60 West
- - - it is improved four-lane much of the way between Sikeston, MO and
Springfield, MO - - and while not identified as a scenic route, I thoroughly
enjoy the scenery along this route and there are a number of RV friendly gas
stations along the route as well.  I usually plan an early lunch stop in
Sikeston at Lamberts Cafi, home of Throwed Rolls (on Malone Street/US 62).

It has been more than a decade since I last made the trip from Paducah, KY
to Chatham, VA so am afraid that I cant provide any assistance with
alternates.

Kevin D. Allen
1964 Overlander International/1999 GMC K2500 Suburban
1978 Argosy Minuet
1975 Cadillac Convertible (towcar in-training)
WBCCI/VAC #6359

 

- -----Original Message-----
From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com [mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
On Behalf Of Balloon@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 7:16 PM
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Springfield to I-81 in Virginia

I plan to attend the 50th in Springfield, Mo. this June. On the way out
from Va., I plan to run I-70 to I-44 to Springfield, Mo.. Mapquest 
says it's about 1,063 miles from Front Royal, Va. to Springfield, Mo.
going that way. Anyone know of a better way?
But on the way back, I was thinking about running
I-44 up to St. Louis, then take old RT50 west back to I-81 in Va.. Has
anyone ever made this run? If so, good/bad/fair idea? I figure leave
International on the Monday the 4th, then take up to Fri/Sat. to get back.
My guess, that would be about 200/250 miles a day. It might even be a
good chance to run a caravan back to the east and from I-81 people 
go north/south?? Any thoughts?

Paul Waddell
WBCCI/WDCU/VAC 1270

- -----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:44:38 -0600
From: Mike Keith <mkeith@1pcplace.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Springfield to I-81 in Virginia

At 07:15 PM 1/18/2005, you wrote:
>I plan to attend the 50th in Springfield, Mo. this June. On the way out
>from Va., I plan to run I-70 to I-44 to Springfield, Mo.. Mapquest
>says it's about 1,063 miles from Front Royal, Va. to Springfield, Mo.
>going that way. Anyone know of a better way?
>But on the way back, I was thinking about running
>I-44 up to St. Louis, then take old RT50 west back to I-81 in Va.. Has
>
>Paul Waddell
>WBCCI/WDCU/VAC 1270
Paul,

I don't recommend I-44, it is as rough an interstate as I-10 is in 
Louisiana.  You could take I70 across and then drop down to Springfield or 
as Kevin said take US 60


Mike and Marianne Keith
WBCCI 4503, Grater St Louis 3rd VP
New Florence, MO
75 Argosy 26' center twin rear bath
96 Ford F-250 Powerstroke 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 20:03:23 -0600
From: "J. Anderson" <janderson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Springfield to I-81 in Virginia

Hi Paul, I have to say I-44 through Missouri is not one of my favorite 
routes.  Having just traveled it twice in the last 2 weeks, I will say 
it is in need of work.  It is pretty rough, it's a favored truck route 
from St Louis west, and it is very "rolling" so the trucks are 
constantly blowing by you on the down hill stretches, then cutting over 
to the right lane as they creep up and over the next hill.  Most of the 
way it is only 4 lanes, and it really should be 6.  There are signs 
posted that indicate lanes will be added in 2005 and 2006, so you may 
want to check whether the construction will be underway during your 
travel dates.  Some limited segments have already been improved, 
including a few miles near Springfield.

As an aside, Missouri (at least along I-44) seems oblivious to the 
Federal highway beautification act.  It seems you wind up seeing a lot 
more of the billboards than you do of Missouri.

Kevin Allen's advice is good; check out the secondary routes wherever 
possible.  We just returned from a 4500 mile trek through the midwest 
and southwest US, and the  secondary routes we found to be generally in 
excellent condition with more scenery and less competition!  You may 
actually save time, and will almost certainly have a more enjoyable 
trip.  Wish I could recommend such a route through Missouri, but someone 
on the list will have the scoop you need!

Regards--
John

Balloon@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:

> I plan to run I-70 to I-44 to Springfield, Mo..

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 21:36:11 -0500
From: "eemerick" <eemerick@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] copper  tubing vs. other metals.

Hello
When I did the 59's fresh water system I checked on all of the options.
I decided to go with copper for a number of reasons including price vs.
PEX, I am used to working with copper and would have to learn how to
work with PEX, I had the tools to work with copper and that is what the
trailer came with. Stainless is not an alternative I gave thought to,
could be too heavy and I'm not sure I could work with it (sweating or
flaring). Over all I like the copper road, you need fire to put it
together which is very manly!
Ed
WBCCI/VAC 4425
68 Sovereign
59 Traveler

- -----Original Message-----
From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com
[mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com] On Behalf Of Toby Folwick
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 12:31 AM
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] copper tubing vs. other metals.


Just a random question. 

can anyone explain why copper tubing would be used for
a water system as opposed to say, stainless, or any
other metal.

assume PEX is not an option.  Was it a cost thing? a
weight thing?

I'm just curious.

Toby



		
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 21:36:30 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald Johnson" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Springfield to I-81 in Virginia

I've crossed southern Missouri in the past couple years. I-44 is by far the most 
direct route though heavily traveled and I found average speeds there a 
couple years ago close to 80 mph trucks included when they could. I dislike 
that heavy traffic and those speeds so with my Caravel hitched, I take 
alternate routes.

Between I-44 and the Arkansas border US 60 (which connects to I-57 
somewhere about Sikeston) is THE route. Lots of it is new. I've not been on it 
in decades between Sikeston and Van Buren, if ever. 160, a bit closer to 
Arkansas, is quite crooked most of the way.

My route from St. Louis to Springfield a summer ago went this way. I left St. 
Louis in US 61/67 (avoiding the parallel I-55) to Festus/Crystal City. Then I  
drove to Park Hills on US-67. At Park Hills I took off on MO 32. I took MO 32 
past Salem to Licking MO. The eastern 2/3 of that part of MO 32 is hilly and 
crooked. VERY HILLY and VERY CROOKED. You will be able to check your 
trailer tail lights on some of those curves. Its not a road to make fast time on, 
though the locals will drive at 60 to 65 MPH average. After driving that 
section of 32 without the Caravel last fall I decided the road would be 15 or 
20% shorter if it was straightened out.

Then at Licking I took US 63 through Houston (where I paused for genealogy 
research and internet access at their library then down some gravel to visit 
a cemetery) down to Cabool where I picked up US 60 to Springfield. US 63 
and US 60 in that area were fine roads. There was quite a bit of recent 
construction and mostly very smooth pavement. After Springfield I went 
south on US 160 a while then westerly on MO 248, then MO 37 and MO 90 at 
Noel. The state highways in that part of the Ozarks are the most crooked 
possible. From Noel I took mostly back roads in Arkansas and Oklahoma to 
Tulsa for a meeting. I took old (OK) 66 from Tulsa to Vinita, then US 60 east to 
Van Buren MO. There I turned on MO 34 to Piedmont and to US 67 and then 
to Wayne County state road B where I turned to visit relations in those hills. 
MO 34 from Van Buren to Piedmont is a bit more crooked than MO 32 but 
not as crooked as MO 90.

I found on the southern Missouri crooked (all two lane) roads that if I saw 
skid marks from a set of duals entering the curve that I needed to slow 
down. I took those as the marks of a lumber or log truck trailer panicking to 
keep from pushing the tractor off the outside of the curve. Those marks 
proved to be a reliable indication of really sharp curves.

Most of this part of Missouri hasn't major industries, so sometimes the houses 
are crumbling. There aren't a lot of towns and filing stations between towns 
are rare. The woods scenery is continuously varying. I don't remember many 
miles of bad road surface.

Local traffic on a Sunday on US 60 tended to want to run about 70 mph with 
60 mph speed limit. For a while pulling at 52, I was concerned that maybe I 
should have driven faster to cut down on the line behind me, but I just 
pulled over to let them pass (on the 2 lane parts of US 60). With the 
tendency there to drive 8 to 10 mph over the posted limit, I'd have still 
collected a line driving only at the posted limit.

I-64 across Kentucky picking up US 60 at Paducah might be an interesting 
route. I-64 is decades newer that I-44.

I'm sure I'll take 34 and 60 again, maybe not 32 if I don't forget how crooked 
it is.

Gerald J.

- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 23:07:15 -0500
From: <Balloon@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Springfield to I-81 in Virginia

The never thought about I-44 until I went to "mapquest". I thought about
taking I-81 south, then run either I-64 or I-40 to run west. Then pick up
RT.60 west and run that the rest of the way. From were I live(were I-66&
I-81 meet), there's a bunch of different ways to go. I also have to think
about what I will be using to tow. I plan to use a 1968 International
Travelall,
2wd. I have been working on it all winter. New trans., water/fuel/oil pumps,
all hoses fuel/rad., gas tanks cooked/sealed. u-joints, belts, new core in
rad.,
etc.... So, I have to think about what will be best for that as well. Since
I
will have the wife and 3yrs daughter, I need to think ahead. Any and all
help
is welcomed! Just trying to get my ducks in a row.

Paul Waddell
WBCCI/WDCU/VAC 1270
1966 Overlander
1966 Safari
1970 Safari
1968 Travelall getting ready to tow!!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 23:25:08 -0600
From: "Kevin D. Allen" <overlander64@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Springfield to I-81 in Virginia

Greetings Paul!

If you decide to take I-64 and want to take a more leisurely path to
Springfield, you can turn South on I-57 at Mt. Vernon, IL and about 155
miles later you will be in Sikeston, Missouri where you can access US 60 and
an easy drive to Springfield.  US 60 is a very nice improved highway that
while considered secondary, bypasses the vast majority of the small towns -
- - but each one is well marked and quite accessible.  If your Travelall is
anything like my '75 Cadillac Eldorado, you will appreciate that gas
stations are accessible and many are arranged to be friendly to vehicles
towing trailers.  The traffic is much lighter along this route and many
stretches have been recently overhauled - - there may be a few stretches of
construction, but they are no worse that what might be encountered on any of
the other approach routes.  There are a few hills and curves, but only one
grade of any significance.

There is a very nice campground just about 3 miles from Lamberts Cafi on US
62 in Sikeston.  Your three year old daughter would probably be entertained
by the atmosphere at Lamberts Cafi if you have never been there before - -
where else can you go where it is socially acceptable for someone (one of
the servers) to throw hot dinner rolls at the guests??  This restaurant has
been one of my favorites for over 30 years (they are in their third new and
larger location since I first learned about the cafi) - - they also have a
location not too far from Springfield, but Sikeston is where Lamberts was
founded.  Lamberts also has RV parking in a large lot beside the restaurant.

Good luck with your plans!

Kevin

Kevin D. Allen
1964 Overlander International/1999 GMC K2500 Suburban
1978 Argosy Minuet
1975 Cadillac Convertible (towcar in-training)
WBCCI/VAC #6359


- -----Original Message-----
From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com [mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
On Behalf Of Balloon@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 10:07 PM
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Springfield to I-81 in Virginia

The never thought about I-44 until I went to "mapquest". I thought about
taking I-81 south, then run either I-64 or I-40 to run west. Then pick up
RT.60 west and run that the rest of the way. From were I live(were I-66&
I-81 meet), there's a bunch of different ways to go. I also have to think
about what I will be using to tow. I plan to use a 1968 International
Travelall,
2wd. I have been working on it all winter. New trans., water/fuel/oil pumps,
all hoses fuel/rad., gas tanks cooked/sealed. u-joints, belts, new core in
rad.,
etc.... So, I have to think about what will be best for that as well. Since
I
will have the wife and 3yrs daughter, I need to think ahead. Any and all
help
is welcomed! Just trying to get my ducks in a row.

Paul Waddell
WBCCI/WDCU/VAC 1270
1966 Overlander
1966 Safari
1970 Safari
1968 Travelall getting ready to tow!!

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End of VAL Digest V2 #132
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