The Vintage Airstream E-mail ListDigest Archive Files
VAL Digest V2 #120
VAL Digest Friday, January 7 2005 Volume 02 : Number 120
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Topics in Today's Digest:
Re: [VAL] tambour lubricant
Re: [VAL] Is: River Shaver for loan
Re: [VAL] Is: River Shaver for loan Was: Rivet Shaver
[VAL] need help with getting it registered
[VAL] need help with getting it registered
Re: [VAL] need help with getting it registered
Re: [VAL] Is: River Shaver for loan
Re: [VAL] need help with getting it registered
RE: [VAL] need help with getting it registered
[VAL] Re: bathtub shower caulking
[VAL] new gallery entry
Re: [VAL] memory foam?
Re: [VAL] Is: River Shaver for loan
[VAL] Re: Center bath rehab.
Re: [VAL] Re: Center bath rehab.
Re: [VAL] Re: Center bath rehab.
[VAL] Re: Rivet Shaver
Re: [VAL] Re: Rivet Shaver
Re: [VAL] Re: Rivet Shaver
[VAL] Re: VAC Free loaders
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Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 02:49:44 -0500
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] tambour lubricant
And if the candles of today are made in China it's a good bet that the wick
contains LEAD -- not something I'd want to be burning. If the new wick
leaves a mark on white paper, chances are that mark is from lead.
Tom
> Beeswax is sticky, makes a poor lubricant.
>
> Paraffin wax is a good lubricant. Many candles are made of paraffin wax,
> except the modern ones made of soy wax.
>
> Gerald J.
>
> --
> Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
> Reproduction by permission only.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 02:53:54 -0500
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Is: River Shaver for loan
Rather than a Sawzall I'd use a cutting wheel on a die-grinder. I'd first
drill the corners with a large size drill, then cut the on or next to the
line/s drawn on the aluminum sheetmetal. A cutting wheel is NOT forgiving,
so be extra careful if you choose to do it this way. Cutting wheels are
what I used all the time when building airplanes and their parts.
Tom
WBCCI 5303
> Better corners for stress control come from drilling as large a radius as
> possible to leave, probably with a brad point drill into a wood back up
> block. Then cut to the holes. If I was cutting that hole it wouldn't take
> long
> with my Sawzall and a fine toothed blade. Far faster and neater than snips
> especially cutting past the rib. But I'd have to make sure there wasn't
> anything in the length of the blade behind where I was cutting that I
> didn't
> want to cut. It is possible, though, to angle the Sawzall to reduce the
> depth
> of penetration. It would be important to cushion the guide foot of the
> Sawzall so it doesn't damage the skin if its cutting from the outside.
>
> Once upon a time I had a stamped "tuning fork" made of aluminum a maker
> of electronic enhanced tuning forks gave out for advertising. I wanted a
> 440
> Hz tuning fork and it was a little high, so I lengthened the fork with a
> hacksaw cut until I was able to trim the ends to get the fork precisely to
> 440
> Hz. It was handy for bass tuning for a few years, then its pitch began to
> go
> lower. The corner of the hacksaw cut had started a crack that once it
> started, it grew rapidly.
>
> Gerald J.
>
> --
> Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
> Reproduction by permission only.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 03:05:58 -0500
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Is: River Shaver for loan Was: Rivet Shaver
There is a tool called a "card file" that will remove bits of metal from
files.
Tom
WBCCI 5303
From: "Mark" <mark@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Always better to round the corners and
> remove any little chinks with an old file. You can preload the teeth of a
> file with chalk to help keep the aluminum from lodging in them too.
> Mark in Modesto
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 08:10:00 EST
From: AnnZ3@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] need help with getting it registered
I seem to be having a bit of trouble getting my 65 AS registered and a
license plate. I live in NY and bought it from a guy in Louisiana. We met in Va.
He signed over the title which I took to the DMV. It should have been
notarized at the time of the sale. I'm a bit hesitate to mail it to him and ask to
have it notarized. What if he never sends it back? The woman at the DMV had
no solution. *And* I need a statement from an AS "dealer" on their letterhead
stating the weight. Any ideas? She said it would not be good enough to try
to get a statement from someplace on line.
Help!!
Ann Dunham
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 08:23:04 EST
From: AnnZ3@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] need help with getting it registered
I seem to be having a bit of trouble getting my 65 AS registered and a
license plate. I live in NY and bought it from a guy in Louisiana. We met in Va.
He signed over the title which I took to the DMV. It should have been
notarized at the time of the sale. I'm a bit hesitate to mail it to him and ask to
have it notarized. What if he never sends it back? The woman at the DMV had
no solution. *And* I need a statement from an AS "dealer" on their letterhead
stating the weight. Any ideas? She said it would not be good enough to try
to get a statement from someplace on line.
Help!!
Ann Dunham
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 07:27:54 -0600
From: Dick Harrold <harrold@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] need help with getting it registered
Ann -
I went through something like this here in Indiana some years ago when
I bought a vintage vehicle in a state that had no requirement for a
title. I prepared a bill of sale (very detailed with VIN, description
of car, color, equipment, body style, everything) and sent three copies
to the previous owner. I asked him to sign and have a notary date,
sign and show county of residence for the notary (an Indiana
requirement) and return two copies to me. I then had to have an
Indiana police officer check the VIN. After that, everything went
smoothly.
Just a suggestion.
See you down by the barn . . . .
Dick Harrold
Noblesville, IN USA
On Jan 6, 2005, at 7:10 AM, AnnZ3@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
> I seem to be having a bit of trouble getting my 65 AS registered and a
> license plate. I live in NY and bought it from a guy in Louisiana.
> We met in Va.
> He signed over the title which I took to the DMV. It should have been
> notarized at the time of the sale. I'm a bit hesitate to mail it to
> him and ask to
> have it notarized. What if he never sends it back? The woman at the
> DMV had
> no solution. *And* I need a statement from an AS "dealer" on their
> letterhead
> stating the weight. Any ideas? She said it would not be good enough
> to try
> to get a statement from someplace on line.
>
> Help!!
>
> Ann Dunham
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 05:41:54 -0800
From: Glyn Judson <glynjudson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Is: River Shaver for loan
Gerald, Tom and all,
In the case of the installation of this access door, it one from a
vintage Airstream circa early 1970's and the door frame already has rounded
corners. I plan to use that frame as a template to mark the outer skin with
a Sharpie marker. That mark will be my guide as I use my new nibbler (as
soon as I get it).
I plan to go very slowly on this project as I don't want to make a slip
and scar the remaining outer skin. I'll also be on the lookout for hidden
obstacles within like electrical wires, both 110 and 12 volt, etc.
I took the door lock to my local locksmith and had a set of keys made,
one less thing to do later on.
Thanks for all your ideas and suggestions,
Glyn
> From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
> Reply-To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 02:53:54 -0500
> To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Is: River Shaver for loan
>
> Rather than a Sawzall I'd use a cutting wheel on a die-grinder. I'd first
> drill the corners with a large size drill, then cut the on or next to the
> line/s drawn on the aluminum sheetmetal. A cutting wheel is NOT forgiving,
> so be extra careful if you choose to do it this way. Cutting wheels are
> what I used all the time when building airplanes and their parts.
>
> Tom
> WBCCI 5303
>
>> Better corners for stress control come from drilling as large a radius as
>> possible to leave, probably with a brad point drill into a wood back up
>> block. Then cut to the holes. If I was cutting that hole it wouldn't take
>> long
>> with my Sawzall and a fine toothed blade. Far faster and neater than snips
>> especially cutting past the rib. But I'd have to make sure there wasn't
>> anything in the length of the blade behind where I was cutting that I
>> didn't
>> want to cut. It is possible, though, to angle the Sawzall to reduce the
>> depth
>> of penetration. It would be important to cushion the guide foot of the
>> Sawzall so it doesn't damage the skin if its cutting from the outside.
>>
>> Once upon a time I had a stamped "tuning fork" made of aluminum a maker
>> of electronic enhanced tuning forks gave out for advertising. I wanted a
>> 440
>> Hz tuning fork and it was a little high, so I lengthened the fork with a
>> hacksaw cut until I was able to trim the ends to get the fork precisely to
>> 440
>> Hz. It was handy for bass tuning for a few years, then its pitch began to
>> go
>> lower. The corner of the hacksaw cut had started a crack that once it
>> started, it grew rapidly.
>>
>> Gerald J.
>>
>> --
>> Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
>> Reproduction by permission only.
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>>
>> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 06:46:45 -0700
From: Matt Worner <wornmatt@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] need help with getting it registered
Ann
I would go to a local notary and file an affidavit stating all that
happened in the transaction and get that notarized. The DMV would then
have to prove that you were lying. As to weight, there are certified
scales at many truck stops, there should be no problem with the DMV
accepting that as proof of weight. (I'm assuming here that you have no
GVWR tag on trailer, and no weight class on existing paperwork.) If the
clerk at the desk cannot accept that, politely apologise for taking her
time for something she is unable (implication being incompetent) to
accomlish and ask to deal with her supervisor. Just keep politely
climbing the ladder until you get to someone willing to make a
decision. Bet it won't take too many steps.
Matt
PS: You could always move here to New Mexico. Sharon up at the Clayton
MVD office is a real sweetheart, and actually comes out to the highway
(parking lot too small) to get the information off the trailer.
AnnZ3@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
>I seem to be having a bit of trouble getting my 65 AS registered and a
>license plate. I live in NY and bought it from a guy in Louisiana. We met in Va.
>He signed over the title which I took to the DMV. It should have been
>notarized at the time of the sale. I'm a bit hesitate to mail it to him and ask to
>have it notarized. What if he never sends it back? The woman at the DMV had
>no solution. *And* I need a statement from an AS "dealer" on their letterhead
>stating the weight. Any ideas? She said it would not be good enough to try
>to get a statement from someplace on line.
>
>Help!!
>
>Ann Dunham
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 09:17:49 -0500
From: "Vasquez, David" <DVASQUEZ@mta-esa.org>
Subject: RE: [VAL] need help with getting it registered
Hello Ann
Where in NY are you. It seems that lady does not know what she's taking
About. I live in NYC and registered a '73 with a copy of a title without
even
notary. What I got from the PO was a bill of sale notarized. If you have a
title,
that have all the info about the AS, I don't see why she needs to see
information
that's already there. Remind her that in 65 there was no title. In any event
make a copy of the original title and have the PO notarized and bring both
when registering. If that doesn't work go to a different office. I bet you
will get a better result. Trustfully I can said that when it come to vehicle
registry nothing beat a "MOORON"
- -----Original Message-----
From: AnnZ3@xxxxxxxxxx.com [mailto:AnnZ3@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 8:10 AM
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] need help with getting it registered
Help!!
Ann Dunham
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 08:46:32 -0600
From: Chris Koehn <timberguides@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Re: bathtub shower caulking
Daisy,
It appears (from your picture) that you are missing a piece of trim.
The giveaway would be if the existing vertical piece has a miter cut
(45 degrees), which would meet the missing culprit. It looks like it
might, but I can't quite tell..
Our '79 had the trim in this location.
Chris K
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 09:39:29 -0600
From: Chris Koehn <timberguides@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] new gallery entry
All-
I just put up a new photo gallery with 10 pictures of "Beer Can One"-
our 1979 Int'l Sov. on Tom's site. The URL is:
<
http://www.tompatterson.com/gallery/Beer-Can-One-The-Koehns-1979-31-
Intl-Sovereign-and-N-A-tour>
There are photos of the bath re-do, including shower re-lining, as well
as kitchen, king bed conversion, and living room makeover.
A big THANKS to Tom for making such a user friendly resource available
to us!
Best,
Chris K.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 12:16:11 -0500
From: "Myrna Warren" <uncleneal@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] memory foam?
I have a friend who got a new memory foam mattress for her home and was so
dissatisfied with it that she returned it. Found out after purchase that it
has a chemical odor that may take months to dissipate. Also it has to be
within a certain temp. range to work right. If you find something, get all
the facts on it before investing. The sales people do not volunteer this
information.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Koehn" <timberguides@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 11:55 AM
Subject: [VAL] memory foam?
> Anyone have any sources for a custom cut memory foam (or other?)
> mattress to replace the futon we're currently using on our gaucho?
> We're in the Dallas area currently, and would be happiest to avoid
> shipping.
> Thanks!
> Chris K.
> <www.koehnjourney.blogspot.com>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 13:33:23 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald Johnson" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Is: River Shaver for loan
Touching aluminum to a grinding wheel is a good way to get tossed out of
most shops because the aluminum often melts into the wheel making it useless
for any work until dressed. Its possible that the cutting wheel will wear down
fast enough to not make that as much of a problem, but I'm unwilling to have
molten aluminum tossed about me and my work space. I'll stick to my sawzall
or saber saw for cutting into walls and my metal cutting bandsaw or milling
machine or squaring shear for cutting loose aluminum sheets.
I always knew the file cleaner as a "file card." (such as catalog number
4332A12 at McMaster-Carr). Its also used to card wool to take out the kinks
before spinning into yarn.
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 18:05:26 -0500
From: Daisy Welch <jtdjtd@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Re: Center bath rehab.
Chris, wow, nice job. Lots of good ideas!
I really like your solution to the shower. Now I'm trying to
figure out how to do something like that while I'm living in
the trailer, and need to use the shower.
I think my first step is going to be a clear shower curtain
liner hung so that the water misses the nasty edges
altogether. Then I can pick away at it. I won't be able to
take the whole thing out and fiberglass it.
Has anyone actually bought the replacement pan from Inland
RV ? I'm concerned that it will be fiberglass instead of the
kind of plastic (?) that the original is. Because I can
work with plastic, but I HATE working with fiberglass.
Your sink counter is GORGEOUS !
and of course I admire your cork floor ...
Daisy
Chris Koehn wrote:
> All-
> I just put up a new photo gallery with 10 pictures of "Beer Can One"-
> our 1979 Int'l Sov. on Tom's site. The URL is:
>
> < http://www.tompatterson.com/gallery/Beer-Can-One-The-Koehns-1979-31-
> Intl-Sovereign-and-N-A-tour>
>
> There are photos of the bath re-do, including shower re-lining, as well
> as kitchen, king bed conversion, and living room makeover.
>
> A big THANKS to Tom for making such a user friendly resource available
> to us!
>
> Best,
>
> Chris K.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 19:35:03 EST
From: JSmith1805@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Center bath rehab.
Daisy Dont worry about using the shower while you repair it .If you dont
use it for some time it will make it eaiser to locate you in a crowd.
Jim Smith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 20:32:04 -0500
From: Daisy Welch <jtdjtd@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Center bath rehab.
Thanks, Jim, that REALLY helps ! :]
Daisy
JSmith1805@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
> Daisy Dont worry about using the shower while you repair it .If you dont
> use it for some time it will make it eaiser to locate you in a crowd.
> Jim Smith
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 21:05:31 -0500
From: "Patricia V. Raimondo" <praimond@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Re: Rivet Shaver
I had a cheaper solution to the missing rivets problem. Every time I
stop by the A/S plant to have something done I stay in the back to talk
to the guys. While they are busy working I casually mention, "Oh, I see
there is a missing rivet here, Oh, another one over there. Oh my
goodness I think there are ten missing up on top!" I love those guys!
Can't say enough good things about the quality of the work done at the
plant!
Reality is, Colorado is going to be a lot farther away from Jackson
Center than Long Island and I'm going to have to start doing the work
myself!!!! Keep the packing boxes handy Glyn!
Patti
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 19:47:16 -0700
From: Robert Davis <rob-iod@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Rivet Shaver
Patricia V. Raimondo wrote:
> Reality is, Colorado is going to be a lot farther away from Jackson
> Center than Long Island and I'm going to have to start doing the work
> myself!!!
Patty,
Think of your bros here in Colorado like Allstate...
You're in good hands, we'll take care of you (and the rivets). ;-)
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 18:53:37 -0800
From: Glyn Judson <glynjudson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Rivet Shaver
Patti,
Not a problem at all, I'll pick out a box soon. Your response is just
what I hoped would happen.
Regards,
Glyn
> From: "Patricia V. Raimondo" <praimond@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> Reply-To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 21:05:31 -0500
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: [VAL] Re: Rivet Shaver
>
> I had a cheaper solution to the missing rivets problem. Every time I
> stop by the A/S plant to have something done I stay in the back to talk
> to the guys. While they are busy working I casually mention, "Oh, I see
> there is a missing rivet here, Oh, another one over there. Oh my
> goodness I think there are ten missing up on top!" I love those guys!
> Can't say enough good things about the quality of the work done at the
> plant!
>
> Reality is, Colorado is going to be a lot farther away from Jackson
> Center than Long Island and I'm going to have to start doing the work
> myself!!!! Keep the packing boxes handy Glyn!
>
> Patti
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2005 21:55:59 -0500
From: "Wayne A. Moore \(WAM\)" <wam52@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAC Free loaders
Hi Toby,
I think you know where I stand on this issue, but for the benefit of the
others I will elaborate.
It has been my experience and personal feeling that, unlike new Airstream
owners, Vintage Trailer owners tend to be more interested in antique and
retro styled hardware, more than they are brand conscious. We have many
members and subscribers (read that potential members) that not only own more
than one Airstream, they own different brands of Vintage travel trailers as
well as vintage cars and trucks and they belong to more than one travel
organization.
It is my opinion that our club is too small to be setting roadblocks to
membership growth. I see the expansion of our website offerings and our
organization as a way to include everyone's interests in the travel trailer
venue. This includes our Newsletter and any Merchandising that we may enter
into. Now, that is not to say that I wish to fund expensive non airstream
related enterprises through the club treasury. On the contrary I tend to be
fiscally conservative. However with that said, I would be willing to listen
to proposals from member volunteers that wish to provide their energy and
ideas for growing our club and providing interesting offerings like our free
advertising.
There will always be folks that are willing to take advantage of anything
that is relatively free, from welfare, to lumber rights in the national
forest. Lets not get so narrow in our focus that we lose membership because
we are viewed as too exclusive. Now you can argue, that by the very
definition of being an "Airstream" owners club, we are exclusive. However,
that in my opinion is the essence of the difference between the mindset of
the Non Vintage Airstream Owner and the Vintage Owner.
For new owners its all about the brand name and those associations, for
vintage owners its all about the classic look of all things made in the past
and the feelings they invoke! Because of this the Vintage Club tends to draw
a more diverse population with varied interests.
I'm in favor of keeping the appeal for our club both broad and inclusive.
Toby thanks for all your hard work and the opportunity to express my opinion
on this issue.
Wayne A. Moore (WAM)
1st Vice President
Vintage Airstream Club
VAC/WBCCI/WDCU 15116
Toby Folwick <toby_folwick@xxxxxxxxxx.com> wrote:
Dwight -
in fact I *can* edit them off the site - let me run it
by a couple people and see what the consensus is about
this.
my personal feeling is that there are some rare
non-airstream trailers that get listed that are pretty
interesting - and we have one of the few venues for
these things. I'm working toward a members only
section to offer some features that are exclusive to
VAC members as well, so I'd hate to eliminate
classifieds for anything other than "type free at
home" ads and the like.
One of the harder questions is how to eliminate
"dealers" who find trailers and turn around and sell
them - unfortunately, switching it to a fee-based
classifieds would tend to eliminate the individual
seller who just wants to sell their airstream.
I'm forwarding this email to the VAC officers and
hopefully we'll hear from them shortly.
Toby Folwick
VAC Webmaster.
--- Dwight Dixon wrote:
> I have a problem with the freeloaders using our
> website to advertise non-Airstream trailers. Our
> dues
> pay to maintain this website. They pay nothing and
> are
> selling trailers that have nothing to do with our
> club. Why can't you edit them off the site??
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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> All your favorites on one personal page - Try My
> Yahoo!
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
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------------------------------
End of VAL Digest V2 #120
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