The Vintage Airstream E-mail ListDigest Archive Files
VAL Digest V2 #112
VAL Digest Thursday, December 30 2004 Volume 02 : Number 112
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Topics in Today's Digest:
Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
[VAL] Re: TV wall install
Re: [VAL] Re: TV wall install
Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
Re: [VAL] Re: TV wall install
Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
[VAL] Skyliner TV Antenna
[VAL] pictures
Re: [VAL] pictures
Re: [VAL] pictures
[VAL] Factory Pictures
Re: [VAL] Skyliner TV Antenna
Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
Re: [VAL] pictures
Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
[VAL] Re: Shirley's Factory Photos
Re: [VAL] pictures
Re: [VAL] pictures
Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
[VAL] Rounded corners and sittin' stools...
Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
[VAL] 72 Sovereign
Re: [VAL] 72 Sovereign
Re: [VAL] 72 Sovereign
Re: [VAL] 72 Sovereign
Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
Re: [VAL] pictures
Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:57:25 -0800
From: Steve Lewis <stevelewis@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
Y'know, I'd be surprised if Airstream's marketing geniuses even care
what trailers they have on display at the factory. In reading my
Christmas copy of "Silver Palaces" (you're right Wally, it's great) on
page 33 Tim Champ is quoted as saying, "And the Vintage Airstream
folks, well, they don't do anything for us either. At this point we
don't need the publicity; everyone knows who we are. We need sales." If
this is the marketing foresight Airstream is banking on, pretty soon
ALL Airstreams will be vintage... mislabeled or not!
Major thanks to Fred for keeping on top of things and making sense of
the confusing history of Airstream, Silver Streak and Curtis Wright...
or Curtiss Wright. Nice job!
> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 15:55:52 -0700
> From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
>
> Scott:
>
> No, I've never met Dickie. I mentioned it to Tim Champ in
> Marketing
> but he just shrugged it off.
>
> Fred C.
>
> Scott Scheuermann wrote:
>
>> Fred,
>>
>> Have you ever contacted Dickie with your findings about this trailer?
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
>>
>>> ...Frankly, I find it very embarrassing for the factory to have this
>>> Curtis-Wright parked out front mis-labeled as an Airstream trailer,
>>> especially with a 1960's name plate.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 08:30:44 EST
From: HHamp5246@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
In a message dated 12/29/2004 2:10:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
stevelewis@xxxxxxxxxx.net writes:
> Tim Champ is quoted as saying, "And the Vintage Airstream
> folks, well, they don't do anything for us either. At this point we
> don't need the publicity; everyone knows who we are. We need sales."
Hi Steve,
I have to ask, what do you think the vintage people do to help the sales of
*new* Airstreams?
I ask because although I own a non vintage Airstream I am a member of the
VAC. I sat at a dinner at last year's International and listened to the a speaker
go on and on about how the VAC members and their trailers, are far superior
to the new trailers and their owners. I was less than amused, but decided not
to say anything. He was giving his opinion which he's entitled to.
With the VAC people promoting buying vintage trailers, not new ones, I have
to wonder why you think Tim Champ is wrong.
Don't get me wrong, I see why vintage people are promoting vintage
trailers.... I just don't see why you take umbrage at Tim's comment.
Hunter
http://members.aol.com/ILuvBrady/summer2004.htm
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy
shit...what a ride!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 08:55:26 -0500
From: "Patricia V. Raimondo" <praimond@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Re: TV wall install
Hi Group,
Has anyone attached one of those TV wall arms that are used for LCD
TV's in their vintage trailer? I know they put them in the new trailers
on an interior wall but my only wall has the marine stove on it. I'd
like to have it on an inside curved wall but the aluminum, I don't
think, is strong enough. I was thinking of building a wood extension to
my curved table or something like that. Sure would help if one of you
already had a solution!
My home moves to Colorado Feb. 1st and I finish out the NY school year
living at my Mothers so I'm going to have a LOT of time this spring to
fiddle around with Pearl on my Mom's driveway! I'll try to finish the
polishing with the cyclo!
Patti
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 07:09:56 -0700
From: Rob Davis <rob-iod@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: TV wall install
Patricia V. Raimondo wrote:
> "My home moves to Colorado Feb. 1st and I finish out the NY school
> year living at my Mothers so I'm going to have a LOT of time this
> spring to fiddle around with Pearl on my Mom's driveway! I'll try to
> finish the polishing with the cyclo!"
How about a polishing party this spring?
We had a miniature version last year at Bernander's place.
Rob Davis
'64 GT #1824
Devner, CO
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 08:44:48 -0600
From: "Don Hardman" <donhardman@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
I think anytime you can keep a product visible to the buying public, new,
slightly used or Vintage, you create interest in the product as a whole.
Since Airstream is really the only active RV line that even has Vintage
trailers on the road, "the Vintage Airstream folks" do in their own way
promote the Airstream product. Every time I bring my 1976 Airstream home for
a little bonding or refurbishing I always have a few neighbors come by and
sit around to watch me work. Although they don't own an Airstream they talk
the talk. One neighbor is seriously wanting an Airstream. He doesn't want a
Vintage trailer though, to much work he says, he wants a new one. In my
opinion everyone of these old Vintage Airstream brought back to life is a
rolling free advertisement for Airstream. If Mr. Champ doesn't recognize
that, then one of these days all that will be left is Vintage Airstream.
Just my Opinion.
Don Hardman
1976 31' Sovereign
> I have to ask, what do you think the vintage people do to help the sales
of
> *new* Airstreams?
>
> With the VAC people promoting buying vintage trailers, not new ones, I
have to wonder why you think Tim Champ is wrong.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I see why vintage people are promoting vintage
> trailers.... I just don't see why you take umbrage at Tim's comment.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 08:33:13 -0600
From: "Chaplain Kent" <Chaplainkent@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: TV wall install
I installed one by using a closet on one side and running a 2 by 4 floor to
ceiling for support inside. I then attached the swing arm for the TV to the
outside wall. This arrangement allowed us to use the TV for viewing front or
back since it sat in the middle. To my knowledge it is still swinging with the
new owners.
Chaplain Kent
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:11:43 -0600
From: "Tom Patterson" <pattersontom@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
My thoughts are that while we on this list, (as well as those on Hunter's
list) know what a modern Airstream is, as well as what a vintage Airstream
is, the general public does not necessarily perceive them in the same way.
In my experience, the general public considers an Airstream to be a very
shiny trailer with a rounded shape. In fact, I believe that they perceive
the highly polished ones to be more representative of what an Airstream
trailer looks like.
I have a highly polished 1965 Streamline brand trailer. Most people that I
encounter outside of the Airstream community believe it to be an Airstream
when they see the trailer. I have heard the 18 wheelers refer to the
trailer as an Airstream, and many folks have come up to me and asked me
about my "Airstream". All of this, depite the fact that it has very visible
Streamline logos all over the trailer.
My point here is that the general public outside the Airstream community is
certainly familiar with the Airstream name, and moreover has a certain
perception of what an Airstream trailer should look like. That perception
tends to be more like the vintage Airstream trailer than the more current
models. Probably there is a nostalgia factor here with the older models
too.
Anyway, I think that there is no doubt that the popularity of the vintage
Airstreams is a positive advantage for the company, and I think that it
helps to draw people to the brand, and to sell their current models. In my
mind, the company is making an error if they don't exploit this perception
and free marketing tool. Take a look at Maytag, and how they have
sucessfully exploited the reputation of their earlier models. No question
in their minds that the early Maytag models add to current Maytag sales. I
think that a whole lot more folks know the Maytag name than the Airstream
name. Neverless, Maytag finds that early models still sell current models.
- -Tom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Lewis" <stevelewis@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
> Y'know, I'd be surprised if Airstream's marketing geniuses even care what
> trailers they have on display at the factory. In reading my Christmas copy
> of "Silver Palaces" (you're right Wally, it's great) on page 33 Tim Champ
> is quoted as saying, "And the Vintage Airstream folks, well, they don't do
> anything for us either. At this point we don't need the publicity;
> everyone knows who we are. We need sales." If this is the marketing
> foresight Airstream is banking on, pretty soon ALL Airstreams will be
> vintage... mislabeled or not!
> Major thanks to Fred for keeping on top of things and making sense of the
> confusing history of Airstream, Silver Streak and Curtis Wright... or
> Curtiss Wright. Nice job!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 10:14:38 EST
From: HHamp5246@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
In a message dated 12/29/2004 9:33:44 AM Eastern Standard Time,
donhardman@xxxxxxxxxx.net writes:
> In my opinion everyone of these old Vintage Airstream brought back to life
> is a
> rolling free advertisement for Airstream. If Mr. Champ doesn't recognize
> that, then one of these days all that will be left is Vintage Airstream.
> Just my Opinion.>
>
Hi Don,
Airstream is selling all the new ones they can produce, I believe they are
set to kick it up a notch.
I agree that the old ones going down the road are great for Airstream, but so
are the new ones. I am frequently asked about mine, "When did Airstream quit
making trailers?" is a frequently asked question. My answer is at 4 o'clock
this afternoon, but they'll start up again tomorrow morning <g>
I guess I see Tim's point of view since I believe it would be rare to see a
vintage owner suggesting someone buy a new trailer.
Hunter
http://members.aol.com/ILuvBrady/summer2004.htm
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy
shit...what a ride!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 08:27:04 -0700
From: Royce <rkkessler@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
Don,
Well said, Airstream may well have all the business they can handle today but
it is in part due to the popularity of the vintage units that folks buy the
new ones today. I build furniture, two of the new major tools in my studio
are there partly because of the popularity of the vintage of the same brand.
Royce Kessler
www.spearfishcreek.com
"......> my opinion everyone of these old Vintage Airstream brought back to
life is a rolling free advertisement for Airstream. If Mr. Champ doesn't
recognize that, then one of these days all that will be left is Vintage
Airstream. Just my Opinion.
Don Hardman
1976 31' Sovereign"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:57:55 -0600
From: "Don Hardman" <donhardman@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Skyliner TV Antenna
I have an orginal Skyliner TV antenna from my 1976 A/S available if anyone
needs one. It's complete with no broken parts and still works, just needs
the inside handle which I broke taking it off. Its very light weight and I
will send to whoever might want it for just the reimbursement of the
shipping cost.
Don Hardman
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 08:03:43 -0800
From: Sharon Chaytor <sharonbc@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] pictures
I was bored this moring, and fiddled with webshots. I put up a few more
pictures of our trailer, some pictures of where we have been with the
trailer, and some more of my horses
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/controlPanel.fcgi?action=swapAlbumPos&ID1=239460748&ID2=205239263
Sharon, in BC
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:54:35 -0700
From: "Roger Hightower" <rwhigh@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] pictures
Is there a way to see the pictures without having to sign up and log in?
Perhaps people wishing to share photos should consider setting up their own
web page through their ISP.
I just don't like having to sign up with yet another site that will send me
more e-mails I don't want.
Roger
Roger Hightower, WBCCI #4165, VAC
1975 31' Sovereign
2002 Ford F-250 PSD
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:59:30 -0700
From: Matt Worner <wornmatt@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] pictures
Hi Sharon,
That's an owner's URL. If you go to the page through community and
search for your self the URL you copy will be a public one.
Been there, done that.
Matt
Sharon Chaytor wrote:
> I was bored this moring, and fiddled with webshots. I put up a few
> more pictures of our trailer, some pictures of where we have been with
> the trailer, and some more of my horses
>
>
> http://community.webshots.com/scripts/controlPanel.fcgi?action=swapAlbumPos&ID1=239460748&ID2=205239263
>
>
> <snip>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:02:56 -0800
From: "Arlen & Shirley" <globetrotter64@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Factory Pictures
Fred,
Thanks for clarifying the "Oldie" in the Airstream Factory Tour Pictures. I
had been told that it was not an Airstream by a knowledgable trailer person
but I did not know for sure - Hence my title of "Oldie". The Sign in the
window says it is a 1948 Clipper but then it also has an Airstream tag
so....
Can you help me with the age and type for the trailer labeled "another
oldie"? I simply forgot to take a picture of the tag.
We could not go inside Wally's gold trailer or "Old Granddad", but all the
others were open to walk through. Looking through the door of Old Granddad
was wonderful - especially all that beautiful wood. The floors in most of
the trailers are soft. Some cometic "restoration" (I'd call it "fix up")
may have been done to the trailers, but they have not yet been restored!
Perhaps the factory is waiting until they can get them inside before they
start major work - at least I would like to hope. When we visited the
factory a number of years ago Wally's gold trailer and others were parked
way in the back where they really could not be seen. Even though the
trailers still need restoration I was pleased that they were now parked out
front so they could be seen an appreciated. From both our observation of
other visitors and comments by our tour guide, it was evident that the
vintage trailers on display were very popular.
Shirley
http://www.tompatterson.com/gallery/albums.php?set_albumListPage=1
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:42:39 -0600
From: "Don Hardman" <donhardman@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Skyliner TV Antenna
Gone in 60 seconds, the antenna has been spoken for.
Don Hardman
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Hardman" <donhardman@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:57 AM
Subject: [VAL] Skyliner TV Antenna
> I have an orginal Skyliner TV antenna from my 1976 A/S available if anyone
> needs one. It's complete with no broken parts and still works, just needs
> the inside handle which I broke taking it off. Its very light weight and I
> will send to whoever might want it for just the reimbursement of the
> shipping cost.
>
> Don Hardman
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:25:53 -0500
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
Dickie is the man to work with. If I got the story right you are the person
who properly ID'd his personal vintage Airstream when his own employees
could not. It is my belief that he knows and respects you for this. If/when
you make contact you may wish to introduce yourself as the VAC historian,
who ID'd his trailer.What was it?....a 50's something...quite interesting
custom job, bunks in the rear a large dinette (for 6?) in front with a bunk
over the dinette.
Scott
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
> Scott:
>
> No, I've never met Dickie. I mentioned it to Tim Champ in Marketing
> but he just shrugged it off.
>
> Fred C.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:34:21 -0500
From: <pcfranke@xxxxxxxxxx.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
12/29/2004 3:30:44 AM, HHamp5246@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
>With the VAC people promoting buying vintage trailers, not new ones, I have
>to wonder why you think Tim Champ is wrong.
Simple. Promoting the vintage trailers -- as well as TV exposure on even
tasteless shows such as "Simple Life 2" -- contributes to the cult
popularity of the a/s. The momentum of that cult popularity drives the sales
of new vehicles.
Personal experience: I love my own vintage coach, and I recommend the "Beatrice"
coaches every chance I get. However, most of the
people I have talked to (for example, physician colleagues) went out and bought
new coaches -- which they would not have done without my
vintage sales pitch. Most people don't want the hassles of restoration/remodeling.
-- Lew #4239
'72 Safari
Still stuck in Ohio.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:42:31 -0800
From: Sharon Chaytor <sharonbc@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] pictures
At 08:54 AM 29/12/2004, you wrote:
>Is there a way to see the pictures without having to sign up and log in?
>Perhaps people wishing to share photos should consider setting up their
>own web page through their ISP.
Whoops. [blush]
Try this one
http://community.webshots.com/album/213175014qoRJxJ
That should work better, and you don't have to sign up for it or anything
Sharon, in BC, who had better go and find something to do, like feed those
starving nags
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:06:34 -0700
From: "Forrest Mcclure" <forrest@xxxxxxxxxx.org>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
Hi Hunter,
Airstream and many of its dealerships have the same attitude toward the
vintage folk (and VAC) as they do toward the WBCCI. At present, they don't
see any need to support either organization as they are selling all of their
product as fast as they can make it. From that strictly business point of
view it is easy to see why they don't think we do "anything" for them. If we
look at the statement in that light then Champ is simply stating fact - we
may have helped them get to their current market position, but there is
nothing more we can do to increase sales since sales currently exceed
production.
The indignation is that Airstream is seen as an ingrate. Today, Airstream
does not need us, but the WBCCI sure needs Airstream. Back when Wally was
alive, Airstream wasn't just a business, it was a passion, and the WBCCI was
an extension of the company, an example of the "Way of Life" that Wally and
Airstream wanted to promote. Airstream continues to rest on that laurel to
promote sales - just look at their sales brochure. Yet, the vast majority of
customers who buy new Airstreams don't become members of the WBCCI, and
Airstream isn't doing much to change that. So, even though we remain loyal
to Airstream, it seems that Airstream sees us as superfluous. It is just
business to them, nothing personal.
For instance, it's my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong), the president
of Airstream, Dicky Riegel, didn't own an Airstream until well after Thor
hired him to run the company. He may be an owner of one now, and may even
have "the bug" now, but at least initially, he was put there not because of
his passion for Airstreaming, but simply, and only for his business ability.
It is hard to swallow the cold, dispassionate business mentality. Take the
Airstream Company Homecoming event. As wonderful as it is, consider that
just across and down the road from the company is WBCCI headquarters, yet
the event is not a sanctioned WBCCI rally. The executive of Airstream
however, continues to hold a position (non-voting, but never-the-less
influential) on the WBCCI Board of Trustees. Many WBCCI and VAC members
attend this event. While they are at the factory a number of them will have
repairs and/or modifications made to their units.
This benefits the Airstream Company, but what reciprocity is there (since
I've yet to attend this company event, I am sincerely asking)?
I actually know first hand that our vintage units help sell new Airstreams.
There are members who first caught the Airstream bug by attending a vintage
rally, but found out (through us) that a vintage unit was a lot of work and
possibly even just as expensive as a new one in the long run. Some of those
members consequently bought new or nearly new units. I have always been up
front about that, and have never promoted vintage over new because some of
our members do not have the means to enjoy the vintage experience. They may
have physical limitations, do not have the time, or are simply not
tinkerers.
I also feel that buying a used unit is okay for Airstream. Members often
sell their older Airstream just so they can buy a new one, but that wouldn't
happen if there wasn't a used market. Statistically, as they get older, many
WBCCI members eventually 'move up' to bigger and newer units. The used (read
vintage) Airstream market serves to get customers feet wet, so to speak, and
when they find they like it they eventually buy a new one. These kinds of
sales take time and are hard to track. American business practices are no
more far sighted in that respect than they are hind sighted. That is, how
well can they project their future, when they don't even know their past?
See Fred Coldwell's thread about the C-W Clipper at the Airstream factory as
an example.
Forrest McClure
'66 Globe Trotter, '66 Overlander
Denver Unit #24 1st Vice-President
WBCCI #2671
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <HHamp5246@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
> In a message dated 12/29/2004 2:10:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> stevelewis@xxxxxxxxxx.net writes:
>
>
> > Tim Champ is quoted as saying, "And the Vintage Airstream
> > folks, well, they don't do anything for us either. At this point we
> > don't need the publicity; everyone knows who we are. We need sales."
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> I have to ask, what do you think the vintage people do to help the sales
of
> *new* Airstreams?
>
> I ask because although I own a non vintage Airstream I am a member of the
> VAC. I sat at a dinner at last year's International and listened to the a
speaker
> go on and on about how the VAC members and their trailers, are far
superior
> to the new trailers and their owners. I was less than amused, but decided
not
> to say anything. He was giving his opinion which he's entitled to.
>
> With the VAC people promoting buying vintage trailers, not new ones, I
have
> to wonder why you think Tim Champ is wrong.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I see why vintage people are promoting vintage
> trailers.... I just don't see why you take umbrage at Tim's comment.
>
> Hunter
>
> http://members.aol.com/ILuvBrady/summer2004.htm
>
> Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved
body,
> but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy
> shit...what a ride!"
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
>
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <HHamp5246@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
> In a message dated 12/29/2004 2:10:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> stevelewis@xxxxxxxxxx.net writes:
>
>
> > Tim Champ is quoted as saying, "And the Vintage Airstream
> > folks, well, they don't do anything for us either. At this point we
> > don't need the publicity; everyone knows who we are. We need sales."
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> I have to ask, what do you think the vintage people do to help the sales
of
> *new* Airstreams?
>
> I ask because although I own a non vintage Airstream I am a member of the
> VAC. I sat at a dinner at last year's International and listened to the a
speaker
> go on and on about how the VAC members and their trailers, are far
superior
> to the new trailers and their owners. I was less than amused, but decided
not
> to say anything. He was giving his opinion which he's entitled to.
>
> With the VAC people promoting buying vintage trailers, not new ones, I
have
> to wonder why you think Tim Champ is wrong.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I see why vintage people are promoting vintage
> trailers.... I just don't see why you take umbrage at Tim's comment.
>
> Hunter
>
> http://members.aol.com/ILuvBrady/summer2004.htm
>
> Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved
body,
> but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy
> shit...what a ride!"
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:45:37 -0700
From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Re: Shirley's Factory Photos
Hi Shirley:
Glad to help! The "other oldie" is a 1948 Airstream 28' tandem axle
"Whirlwind" Super Liner, serial number 2008 on an Airstream "wave"
plate, which should make it the 8th one manufactured. It has the
Air-O-Lite brand stacked rectangular casement type side windows. An
interesting modification by a former owner is the rounding of bottom
window frame corners, which have been filed into a smooth curve from the
original sharp 90 degree angle. This may have been done to reduce the
extent of puncture wounds resulting from walking into an open window
frame. I bet the file came out quickly after the first heady encounter.
I spent 15 minutes transfixed in the open threshold of Old Granddad,
the pre WW II tandem axle Clipper, just absorbing the beauty and
craftsmanship of that gorgeous wood interior. I spent another 10
minutes outside admiring the pattern of the rivets across the exterior
aluminum skin. What a beauty! Time with Old Granddad is time well
spent, a five rivet experience.
Best regards,
Fred C.
Arlen & Shirley wrote:
> Fred,
>
> Thanks for clarifying the "Oldie" in the Airstream Factory Tour Pictures. I
> had been told that it was not an Airstream by a knowledgable trailer person
> but I did not know for sure - Hence my title of "Oldie". The Sign in the
> window says it is a 1948 Clipper but then it also has an Airstream tag
> so....
>
> Can you help me with the age and type for the trailer labeled "another
> oldie"? I simply forgot to take a picture of the tag.
>
> We could not go inside Wally's gold trailer or "Old Granddad", but all the
> others were open to walk through. Looking through the door of Old Granddad
> was wonderful - especially all that beautiful wood. The floors in most of
> the trailers are soft. Some cometic "restoration" (I'd call it "fix up")
> may have been done to the trailers, but they have not yet been restored!
> Perhaps the factory is waiting until they can get them inside before they
> start major work - at least I would like to hope. When we visited the
> factory a number of years ago Wally's gold trailer and others were parked
> way in the back where they really could not be seen. Even though the
> trailers still need restoration I was pleased that they were now parked out
> front so they could be seen an appreciated. From both our observation of
> other visitors and comments by our tour guide, it was evident that the
> vintage trailers on display were very popular.
>
>
> Shirley
> http://www.tompatterson.com/gallery/albums.php?set_albumListPage=1
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:21:54 -0700
From: "Roger Hightower" <rwhigh@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] pictures
Thanks, Sharon.
Had to laugh. Who among us hasn't sat on a bucket or stool in front of the
trailer, trying to get the umbilical wiring figured out? I hope it was
easier for you than it was for me.
Roger
Roger Hightower, WBCCI #4165, VAC
1975 31' Sovereign
2002 Ford F-250 PSD
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:30:16 -0800
From: Glyn Judson <glynjudson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] pictures
Roger,
Count me as one except I've used a plastic milk crate.
Ouch.........waffle bottom!
Glyn ; - )
> From: "Roger Hightower" <rwhigh@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> Reply-To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:21:54 -0700
> To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Subject: Re: [VAL] pictures
>
> Thanks, Sharon.
>
> Had to laugh. Who among us hasn't sat on a bucket or stool in front of the
> trailer, trying to get the umbilical wiring figured out? I hope it was
> easier for you than it was for me.
>
> Roger
>
> Roger Hightower, WBCCI #4165, VAC
> 1975 31' Sovereign
> 2002 Ford F-250 PSD
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:01:41 EST
From: HHamp5246@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
In a message dated 12/29/2004 12:35:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
pcfranke@xxxxxxxxxx.netcom.com writes:
> Simple. Promoting the vintage trailers -- as well as TV exposure on even
> tasteless shows such as "Simple Life 2" -- contributes to the cult opularity
> of the a/s. The momentum of that cult popularity drives the sales of new
> vehicles.>
Hi Lew,
I agree, only the coach in The Simple Life wasn't vintage...it was a brand
new CCD. I'm not here to argue the point, I haven't asked what Tim meant but I'm
assuming he meant the vintage people don't promote purchasing new trailers.
Hunter
http://members.aol.com/ILuvBrady/summer2004.htm
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy
shit...what a ride!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:14:27 -0800
From: "Mark" <mark@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Rounded corners and sittin' stools...
Fellow 'Streamers,
I've done BOTH of those Airstreamaneuvers...on the same day! Spent a few
hours sitting on the box, translating the wiring, then got up to head for the
rear to check the taillights. Hadn't quite gotten straighten up all the way
before I suddenly remembered I'd left the kitchen window half open, to take
advantage of the nice breeze one Summer afternoon.
Trouble is, the thing which reminded me of the open window was the sharp
corner of said window, smacking me just next to my left eye. I literally 'saw
stars' and had to sit down for a minute. Got the scar to prove it.
Naturally, my first reaction was to blame the %$&*# window, but it soon became
clear the fault lay with the operator. Sigh. It hasn't happened since, but I
might just dig out an old file and teach it a lesson anyway, albeit twenty
years later.
: J)
Mark in Modesto
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:29:43 EST
From: HHamp5246@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
In a message dated 12/29/2004 1:10:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
forrest@xxxxxxxxxx.org writes:
Hi Forrest,
What a wonderful post!
> Airstream and many of its dealerships have the same attitude toward the
> vintage folk (and VAC) as they do toward the WBCCI. >
If that's true, it's a shame. As I don't have a vintage trailer I have not
seen that attitude.
> <The indignation is that Airstream is seen as an ingrate. Today, Airstream
> does not need us, but the WBCCI sure needs Airstream. Back when Wally was
> alive, Airstream wasn't just a business, it was a passion, and the WBCCI was
> an extension of the company, an example of the "Way of Life" that Wally and
> Airstream wanted to promote. Airstream continues to rest on that laurel to
> promote sales - just look at their sales brochure. Yet, the vast majority of
> customers who buy new Airstreams don't become members of the WBCCI, and
> Airstream isn't doing much to change that. So, even though we remain loyal
> to Airstream, it seems that Airstream sees us as superfluous. It is just
> business to them, nothing personal.>
I'm thinking that's because a whole new generation is buying Airstreams,
people who have nothing in common with the "old guard" and the pomp and
circumstance that go along with a WBCCI rally. The beauty contests, the entertainment,
the meetings are all kind of old fashioned for the people who are buying, say
the CCDs for example. They don't see the advantages of the camaraderie of the
club.
>
> <For instance, it's my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong), the
> president
> of Airstream, Dicky Riegel, didn't own an Airstream until well after Thor
> hired him to run the company. He may be an owner of one now, and may even
> have "the bug" now, but at least initially, he was put there not because of
> his passion for Airstreaming, but simply, and only for his business ability.>
>
That's true, he did not have an Airstream. I'm not sure that's a problem,
Airstream is a business and has to account for the bottom line. Heck, it seems
half the people in Jackson Center work for the company and they most likely
want a business man running it, not a passionate one. The only passion I worry
about it the passion to make the trailer as well as possible.... no leaks, good
fit and finish. Dickie is very receptive to input from owners which I think
it especially good, unlike the last person in charge.
> <It is hard to swallow the cold, dispassionate business mentality. Take the
> Airstream Company Homecoming event. As wonderful as it is, consider that
> just across and down the road from the company is WBCCI headquarters, yet
> the event is not a sanctioned WBCCI rally.>
I can understand that perfectly. It was their party, I doubt they wanted all
the restrictions the WBCCI would have held them to. I have to say after
going to four Internationals, five Sarasotas and some other rallies...the
Homecoming was the most fun one I've ever been to. The only ones that I've been to
that were comparable were the WDCU which isn't your typical WBCCI rally by any
stretch of the imagination.
< The executive of Airstream > however, continues to hold a position
> (non-voting, but never-the-less
> influential) on the WBCCI Board of Trustees. Many WBCCI and VAC members
> attend this event. While they are at the factory a number of them will have
> repairs and/or modifications made to their units.
> This benefits the Airstream Company, but what reciprocity is there (since
> I've yet to attend this company event, I am sincerely asking)?>
I suggest you attend one..... it really is fun! It's my understanding that
Airstream was giving buyers a free year with the WBCCI, or was that the WBCCI
who was giving the free year?
In this day and age I wonder how much longer the WBCCI will be around. Times
have changed, people have changed.... I love the social part of being a
member, but for people who don't care about that what is their incentive to join?
>
> <I actually know first hand that our vintage units help sell new Airstreams.
> There are members who first caught the Airstream bug by attending a vintage
> rally, but found out (through us) that a vintage unit was a lot of work and
> possibly even just as expensive as a new one in the long run.>
I'm sure that's true, but the fact that they were even at a vintage rally
shows an interest was there. I'm really not trying to disagree, I'm just
thinking Tim Champ wasn't being critical of the vintage people when he said they
don't sell new trailers. He's really a very nice guy, and smart as a whip, so I
doubt he would mean to alienate a large group of people.
> <I also feel that buying a used unit is okay for Airstream. Members often
> sell their older Airstream just so they can buy a new one, but that wouldn't
> happen if there wasn't a used market.>
Yeah, they shoot themselves in the foot building a trailer that lasts forever
<g> Most companies build in planned obsolescence....
< Statistically, as they get older, many > WBCCI members eventually 'move up'
> to bigger and newer units. >
Interesting that you would phrase that as "moving up" I know people who buy
the new motorhomes think they have moved up.... I think having a trailer is
moving up.
<The used (read > vintage) Airstream market serves to get customers feet wet,
> so to speak, and
> when they find they like it they eventually buy a new one.>
Really? I bet very few vintage owners on this list are looking forward to the
day when they can buy a new one. Look at Patti, she sold a new one for her
vintage one.
<> That is, how well can they project their future, when they don't even know
> their past?
> See Fred Coldwell's thread about the C-W Clipper at the Airstream factory as
> an example.>
That certainly is an unfortunate mistake.... I hope someone contacts Dickie
about it.
Thanks for a well written, well thought out post.
Hunter
http://members.aol.com/ILuvBrady/summer2004.htm
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "...holy
shit...what a ride!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:08:57 -0500
From: Roger T McClelland <kc8cix1@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] 72 Sovereign
Hi I am new to this list and I am wondering if My 1972 31 ft Sovereign
Qualifies as a Vintage Trailer?
Roger
WBCCI 9171
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:15:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Uwe Salwender <salwender@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 72 Sovereign
- --- Roger T McClelland <kc8cix1@xxxxxxxxxx.com> wrote:
> Hi I am new to this list and I am wondering if My
> 1972 31 ft Sovereign
> Qualifies as a Vintage Trailer?
>
> Roger
>
> WBCCI 9171
>
Yes, 30 years and older should put you in the ballpark
of vintage, in my opinion.
Uwe Salwender
Orange CA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:18:20 -0800 (PST)
From: William Durkee <wjdurkee@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 72 Sovereign
Roger,
2005 - 25 = 1980
I would say anything made in 1980 or earlier would now
be considered Vintage. Lets see what others think.
Bill Durkee
69 Sovereign Twin
- --- Roger T McClelland <kc8cix1@xxxxxxxxxx.com> wrote:
> Hi I am new to this list and I am wondering if My
> 1972 31 ft Sovereign
> Qualifies as a Vintage Trailer?
>
> Roger
>
> WBCCI 9171
__________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:43:13 -0500
From: Daisy Welch <jtdjtd@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 72 Sovereign
25 years old is the "official" age decided on by the Vintage
Airstream Club. Other clubs of older things have different
rules.
Daisy
William Durkee wrote:
> Roger,
>
> 2005 - 25 = 1980
>
> I would say anything made in 1980 or earlier would now
> be considered Vintage. Lets see what others think.
>
> Bill Durkee
> 69 Sovereign Twin
>
> --- Roger T McClelland <kc8cix1@xxxxxxxxxx.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Hi I am new to this list and I am wondering if My
>>1972 31 ft Sovereign
>>Qualifies as a Vintage Trailer?
>>
>>Roger
>>
>>WBCCI 9171
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:35:39 -0800
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
> I have to ask, what do you think the vintage people do to help the
> sales of
> *new* Airstreams?
> Hunter
I believe that the VAC folk - of which I am happy to claim membership -
contribute something called "value". This product is so valuable - so
intrinsically well built and enduring - that I invested my $$ in
restoring/rebuilding it as my contribution to the folk that stand up
and say "This is good and is worthy of my time and money to preserve as
an example of how a trailer/motor home should be built".
Jo Ann
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:14:20 EST
From: JSmith1805@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
JO Ann
I have to agree and disagree with you I believe that the time $$$$ and
effort is down the drain as I am sure that neither I or my hears will ever recoup
1/8 of this investment that I have put into "The Silver Albatross"
the other side of the coin is that the amount of personal pride and
satisfaction I have gained from this project is pricless.I will continue making the
changes as I see fit after all at my age i need a number of unfinished projects
as I cannot die and leave these jobs unfinished because no one will know how to
complete them.
JIM SMITH
You still want for me to try to get a caravan to Belize this Summer?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:26:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Uwe Salwender <salwender@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
My feeling is that those initially interested, or
intrigued by Airstream can not tell the difference
between vintage or new.
They either think that the vintage ones are new, or
vice versa.
So, in a way us Airstream owners ( not just VAC) do
tremendously contribute to the brands popularity, in
more ways than one.
How many people do you know that talk up their
Prowlers? Not.
Airstream owners are very brand conscious. They share
this willingly and gladly with others, at the
slightest hint of interest from the other party.
This, in my opinion, is advertising value that is
priceless. Mouth to mouth advertising is very hard to
earn. ( I believe that perhaps the new Airstream
product does not always deserve it) It is for this
reason, if nothing else, that Airstream should
appreciate the vintage scene tremendously more than
they appear to be doing.
Uwe Salwender
Orange CA
- --- Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu> wrote:
> > I have to ask, what do you think the vintage
> people do to help the
> > sales of
> > *new* Airstreams?
> > Hunter
>
> I believe that the VAC folk - of which I am happy to
> claim membership -
> contribute something called "value". This product is
> so valuable - so
> intrinsically well built and enduring - that I
> invested my $$ in
> restoring/rebuilding it as my contribution to the
> folk that stand up
> and say "This is good and is worthy of my time and
> money to preserve as
> an example of how a trailer/motor home should be
> built".
> Jo Ann
>
>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all
> unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please
> go to
>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:34:35 -0800
From: Sharon Chaytor <sharonbc@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] pictures
Fortunately, my hubby is very handy when it comes to things like that. It
did take him awhile, but it actually took him longer to decide which plug
to put on the end! Right now it is just a regular plug, but he is going to
change it over to a transport type plug when he gets the truck built.
Sharon, in BC
>Had to laugh. Who among us hasn't sat on a bucket or stool in front of
>the trailer, trying to get the umbilical wiring figured out? I hope it
>was easier for you than it was for me.
>
>Roger
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:52:11 -0800
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
Hi Jim:
Well, sure on the Belize caravan - will we roast do you think?
As to the time and $$ in restoration/rebuilding, if you're in it for
the money, perhaps it's not a great investment per se but I'd rather
have put my money into buying up a bunch of old ASs than that pesky
little mutual fund that ate my $$. I rebuilt/restored it because for
me it was like a dog with a bone. I couldn't half do it and it had to
be done right. Maybe this particular obsession is simply an attempt on
each of ours part to see a project finished and finished "right". There
is so little in this life that we can truly see through to
completion...
On Dec 2004, at 6:14 PM, JSmith1805@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
> JO Ann
> I have to agree and disagree with you I believe that the time $$$$ and
> effort is down the drain as I am sure that neither I or my hears will
> ever recoup
> 1/8 of this investment that I have put into "The Silver Albatross"
> the other side of the coin is that the amount of personal pride and
> satisfaction I have gained from this project is pricless.I will
> continue making the
> changes as I see fit after all at my age i need a number of unfinished
> projects
> as I cannot die and leave these jobs unfinished because no one will
> know how to
> complete them.
> JIM SMITH
> You still want for me to try to get a caravan to Belize this Summer?
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
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