VAL Digest V2 #111

VAL Digest        Wednesday, December 29 2004        Volume 02 : Number 111




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Topics in Today's Digest:

Re: [VAL] Which Olympic rivets?
Re: [VAL] Re:Door Windows
Re: [VAL] Re:Door Windows
Re: [VAL] Which Olympic rivets?
[VAL] Airstreams in Japan
Re: [VAL] Re: [A/S] Factory Tour Pictures
[VAL] Factory Tour Pictures
[VAL] to Sharon in BC
Re: [VAL]  Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
Re: [VAL]  Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
[VAL] Re: Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
Re: [VAL]  Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
[VAL] '61 Bambi in Silver Palaces book
Re: [VAL]  Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
Re: [VAL]  Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures
Re: [VAL]  Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures

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Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 22:07:22 -0800
From: Glyn Judson <glynjudson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Which Olympic rivets?

    Bobby,

    Thanks.

    Glyn

> From: gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Reply-To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 00:34:32 -0500
> To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Which Olympic rivets?
> 
> Glyn
> A 1/8th is a 4. I didn't look at the link you had posted but they should be
> listed something like 4-3, 4-4, 4-5 etc... The number after the dash is the
> grip length.
> You should need 4-3 bulb type rivets.
> As for the shaver if your careful a dremel tool will do what you want.
> 
> Bobby
> ----- Original Message -----
> Wrom: ADRZFSQHYUCDDJBLVLMHAALPTCXLYRWTQTIPWIGYOKSTTZ
> 
> 
> 
> My best tape measured judgement is that the holes are 1/8" on the door
> flange, yet I can see no diameter shown in the chart (measurement A) that
> comes close.  In addition, what type of head should I be using?
> 
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> 
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 01:12:37 -0500
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re:Door Windows

Any chance you can install a *stop* to keep that from happening --- again?

Tom

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark" <mark@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re:Door Windows


> My '62 Tradewind has a Jalousie window.  The trouble is, if a visitor 
> opens
> the door all the way, with the window fully opened, it will dent the 
> outside
> of the trailer.
>
> I wish I didn't know that, but now you do too...the easy way.
>
>
> Mark in Modesto
>
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>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 22:45:38 -0800
From: "Mark" <mark@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re:Door Windows

>Any chance you can install a *stop* to keep that from happening --- again?

Well, I sorta did after the first time it happened.  The second time somebody
opened the door a bit too far, I yelled "STOP!!"

 It worked, but I have to remain vigilant when company arrives.

There IS a rubber socket on the coach, and a long shaft on the door, but if
the window is open all the way, it's not quite long enough to prevent the
corner of the glass from kissing the aluminum.  Now I rarely open that window
far enough to let it hit, but it's a drag to see the little dimples which
remain in the side of my trailer.


Mark

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Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 07:00:55 +0000
From: Mitch Hill <fmhill@xxxxxxxxxx.org>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Which Olympic rivets?

At 00:34 12/28/04 -0500, gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
>Glyn
>A 1/8th is a 4. I didn't look at the link you had posted but they should be
>listed something like 4-3, 4-4, 4-5 etc... The number after the dash is the
>grip length.
>You should need 4-3 bulb type rivets.
>As for the shaver if your careful a dremel tool will do what you want.

Look at the rivets listed on the Airstreamdreams.com site, they are the 
correct rivets. I believe what you want is a 5-5 rivet for exterior work on 
your Airstream.  The first number is dia in 1/32 inch, most Airstreams I 
have seen use a 5/32" rivet shank diameter on the exterior hence the 5-5 
instead of 4-5 size, its the right size as used on my '64.

www.airstreamdreams.com web site has the technical dimensions of the 
Olympic rivets on line if this helps resolve your question.

One question that has been debated is the use of the type with the neoprene 
washer or not, I use them, however they take a bit more skill to use 
properly as you need a correctly de-burred hole with a slight chamfer to 
avoid extruding the washer. With either type rivet, I always use a bit of 
Vulkem preferably applied between the two pieces of aluminum so when they 
are clamped together by the rivet it extrudes slightly and can be cleaned 
up with a paper towel dampened with mineral spirits. I usually let the 
vulkem set up about 5 to 24 hours or more before shaving the heads and then 
cleaning up the last bit of Vulkem that has extruded. It makes a nice neat 
professional appearing job of it.

One more thing about the shaving tool, it allows you to get a closer and 
very consistent head shape and height that appears very original if your 
looking for that detail.

- --
Mitch Hill - K1FH
WBCCI 21960
'64 AS Ambassador International

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Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 08:26:20 -0600
From: "Tom Patterson" <pattersontom@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Airstreams in Japan

I was sent the Tin Can Tourist news below, and thought I would pass it along 
for everyone's information.  Looks like there are a few Airstreams in Japan.

http://www.tincantourists.com/news.php?subaction=showcomments&id=1097711018&archive=&start_from=&ucat=1&;


- -Tom 

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Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 10:41:35 -0500
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: [A/S] Factory Tour Pictures

Wally,

I do not know exactly when the name plate change took place, however the art
deco style name plate was in use in the very early 60's...however its
position (and the aluminum plate beneath the art deco plate) suggest that
the name plate is not original on the 63 Bambi.

I doubt that the "oldie" is a Silver Streak. I would hope that the Airstream
company would of done their homework on that one. The trailers were very
similiar for a few years (read up on Airstream history...it may shed some
light-or perhaps someone who knows the details better than I will chime in).
However I did hear a rumor once that the factory honored their lifetime
guarantee on a trailer that reportedly was not an Airstream.

Don't let the name plates mislead you...most likely one of the Airstream
workers was instructed to put name plates on them...and either didn't know
which style to use...or only had one style available at the time. I wouldn't
be suprised if this happened in the rush just prior to the Homecoming Rally
earlier this year.

Scott
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wally" <maltnhops@xxxxxxxxxx.com>


> Arlen and Shirley,
>
> Thanks for the factory pictures!  I noticed a couple things that were
> puzzling.  Maybe those "in the know" can shed some light on this for me.
> The first thing I noticed was the incorrect Airstream nameplate on the '63
> Bambi.  It has a '50's nameplate with the art deco lettering rather than
the
> correct block lettering for that era.  And secondly, isn't that "oldie" a
> Silver Streak and not an Airstream?  It has an Airstream nameplate on it,
> but again, the nameplate is not period correct.  Am I missing something?
>
> Thanks,
> Wally

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 10:28:35 -0600
From: "Tom Patterson" <pattersontom@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Factory Tour Pictures

Don't forget that Silver Streak got their start in 1949 when three 
individuals -- Pollito, Neptune and Patterson acquired the trailer business 
from the Curtis Wright Company.  The early Silver Streaks were identical to 
the Clippers that Curtis Wright had been producing before the sale.  You can 
see ads from before and after the sale on my site at: 
http://www.tompatterson.com/Silverstreak/Ads/Ads.html.  Notice that the 
trailer pictured in several of the ads is the same except for being a Silver 
Streak.

Several years before that, Wally Byam and Curtis Wright had been producing 
trailers together, with some of them labled as Airstreams, and with some 
labled as Curtis Wright trailers.  The trailer you think of as a Silver 
Streak may be one of the trailers produced in the Byam/Curtis Wright era.

- -Tom

> correct block lettering for that era.  And secondly, isn't that "oldie" a 
> Silver Streak and not an Airstream?  It has an Airstream nameplate on it, 
> but again, the nameplate is not period correct.  Am I missing something?

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 09:20:12 -0800
From: "MK / JS" <sn2244@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] to Sharon in BC

Have you considered camping over the border? (it's close to Richmond)
Also - how often do you need to visit with family and friends in Richmond.
We commute regularly between Vancouver and the Sunshine Coast (a scenic
ferry ride away ... start at www.gibsonsced.com for tourism info and more
... or www.bigpacific.com )
Loved the poem your mom wrote - makes me think of my little vintage Safari
tucked away for the winter at our summer camp.
Marg in Vancouver BC

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 10:24:09 -0700
From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL]  Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures

Those malts and hops have not impaired Wally's power of observation.

The 1948 "Clipper" with the 1960's AIRSTREAM block letter name plate on 
its front is actually an early postwar Curtis Wright Clipper IF 1948 is 
the correct year of manufacture, which it appears to may be.  But if it 
is a Spring 1949 or later manufactured trailer, it would be a Silver 
Streak.  This "Clipper" trailer has no data [serial number] tag, 
Airstream or otherwise.  "Clipper" was a Curtis Wright model name since 
January 1947, but did not become an Airstream model name until mid-1949, 
after Silver Streak purchased all rights to the aluminum C-W Clipper.

This Clipper trailer has had an incorrect Airstream name plate on it for 
20 or so years.  But the factory was sold a bill of goods if it 
purchased that trailer thinking it was an Airstream; it never was and is 
not today.  Attaching an AIRSTREAM name plate onto another brand trailer 
does not convert it into an Airstream, no matter how hard one wishes.

Frankly, I find it very embarrassing for the factory to have this 
Curtis-Wright parked out front mis-labeled as an Airstream trailer, 
especially with a 1960's name plate.  Would Harley-Davidson display an 
Indian motocycle mis-labeled as a Harley in the Harley museum?  This 
mis-identification demonstrates the Airstream factory has no real grasp 
of its product history.

There is no evidence that Wally Byam and Curtis Wright Industries, Inc. 
ever co-produced a common travel trailer that used both brand names. 
Wally worked for Curtis Wright until early 1947, when he left to 
re-establish Airstream.  The Curtis Wright Clippers and Airstream Liners 
were and remain distinctly different and separate trailers.

The Bambi has an incorrect early deco style AIRSTREAM name plate in the 
correct location above the front window.

Fred Coldwell
VAC Archive Historian

Wally wrote:
> Arlen and Shirley,
> 
> Thanks for the factory pictures!  I noticed a couple things that were 
> puzzling.  Maybe those "in the know" can shed some light on this for me. 
> The first thing I noticed was the incorrect Airstream nameplate on the 
> '63 Bambi.  It has a '50's nameplate with the art deco lettering rather 
> than the correct block lettering for that era.  And secondly, isn't that 
> "oldie" a Silver Streak and not an Airstream?  It has an Airstream 
> nameplate on it, but again, the nameplate is not period correct.  Am I 
> missing something?
> 
> Thanks,
> Wally
> 
> 
>>
>> I just uploaded some photos to the Vintage Airstream List's Photo Album
>> http://www.tompatterson.com/gallery/albums.php
>>
>> These are pictures from a Tour of the Airstream factory we took this 
>> summer.
>> I thought some of you might enjoy seeing them especially if you have not
>> been to the factory.
>>
>> Shirley
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> 
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
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------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 12:00:29 -0600
From: "Tom Patterson" <pattersontom@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL]  Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures

Hi Fred,

Thanks for the clarification.  I was basing my Byam/C-W manufacturing 
information on the following quote from the VAC Fredericksburg 2000 Rally 
program which reads:

"During World War II, Wally Byam the founder of Airstream was forced to 
close
up shop and take a job with Curtiss-Wright.  As the war wound down, he went 
to
top management and convinced them that he and they together should build
trailers after the war.  Thus as the war closed in 1945, Engineers were
assigned to designing this trailer under the guidance of Wally.  The first
examples were sold as Curtiss-Wrights in 1946.  Within months Wally tired of
the arrangement and negotiated a new contract under which Curtiss-Wright 
could
sell the trailer, but Wally could too, only he called his an Airstream. 
They
were identical.  C-W never found it very profitable and in June of 1949 sold
their interests to partners which called their trailer the Silver Streak."

Maybe the above is just an "Urban Legend" which crept into the program that 
year.  Certainly, the Curtiss spelling in the program is incorrect as I now 
know, through your efforts.

>
> There is no evidence that Wally Byam and Curtis Wright Industries, Inc. 
> ever co-produced a common travel trailer that used both brand names. Wally 
> worked for Curtis Wright until early 1947, when he left to re-establish 
> Airstream.  The Curtis Wright Clippers and Airstream Liners were and 
> remain distinctly different and separate trailers.
>

- -Tom 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 11:14:48 -0700
From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Re: Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures

Hi Tom:

    Yes, that is some of the old wives' tales concerning Wally Byam's 
trailer history.  Deeper research since YK 2000 has dispelled that myth 
and got many of the facts and dates straightened out.

     A few years ago I was told by a founding VAC member that early 
postwar Airstreams had two "D" shaped windows front and back.  I imagine 
his misinformation came, in large part if not wholly, from seeing the 
mislabeled Curtis Wright Clipper sitting outside the Airstream factory 
Service Center in Jackson, Center, OH.  I like to follow Ronnie Regan's 
advice: trust, but verify. :)

    Tom, Best New Year's Wishes to you and Marilyn!

Warmest regards,

Fred Coldwell

Tom Patterson wrote:
> Hi Fred,
> 
> Thanks for the clarification.  I was basing my Byam/C-W manufacturing 
> information on the following quote from the VAC Fredericksburg 2000 
> Rally program which reads:
> 
> "During World War II, Wally Byam the founder of Airstream was forced to 
> close
> up shop and take a job with Curtiss-Wright.  As the war wound down, he 
> went to
> top management and convinced them that he and they together should build
> trailers after the war.  Thus as the war closed in 1945, Engineers were
> assigned to designing this trailer under the guidance of Wally.  The first
> examples were sold as Curtiss-Wrights in 1946.  Within months Wally 
> tired of
> the arrangement and negotiated a new contract under which Curtiss-Wright 
> could
> sell the trailer, but Wally could too, only he called his an Airstream. 
> They
> were identical.  C-W never found it very profitable and in June of 1949 
> sold
> their interests to partners which called their trailer the Silver Streak."
> 
> Maybe the above is just an "Urban Legend" which crept into the program 
> that year.  Certainly, the Curtiss spelling in the program is incorrect 
> as I now know, through your efforts.
> 
>>
>> There is no evidence that Wally Byam and Curtis Wright Industries, 
>> Inc. ever co-produced a common travel trailer that used both brand 
>> names. Wally worked for Curtis Wright until early 1947, when he left 
>> to re-establish Airstream.  The Curtis Wright Clippers and Airstream 
>> Liners were and remain distinctly different and separate trailers.
>>
> 
> -Tom
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> 
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 13:24:26 -0500
From: "Wally" <maltnhops@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL]  Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures

Fred (and others),

Thanks for your clarification on those two points.  I agree that it is a 
little embarrassing that the company is so detached from its own history. 
Your Harley analogy was spot on.  I also feel that it's wrong to leave these 
historical trailers out in the elements.  Sure, they are meant to be used 
outside, but these trailers need to be preserved.  They will no longer be 
used for their original purpose, so they need an indoor home.  I find it 
hard to believe that there is not enough money in the budget to construct a 
proper storage facility for these trailers.  (granted, my trailers are 
stored outside, but I am on a family budget, not a corporate one)

Thanks,
Wally
'61 Bambi
'66 Caravel
Still looking for my Wee Wind, Cruisette, Bubble, and Pacer

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures


> Those malts and hops have not impaired Wally's power of observation.
>
> The 1948 "Clipper" with the 1960's AIRSTREAM block letter name plate on 
> its front is actually an early postwar Curtis Wright Clipper IF 1948 is 
> the correct year of manufacture, which it appears to may be.  But if it is 
> a Spring 1949 or later manufactured trailer, it would be a Silver Streak. 
> This "Clipper" trailer has no data [serial number] tag, Airstream or 
> otherwise.  "Clipper" was a Curtis Wright model name since January 1947, 
> but did not become an Airstream model name until mid-1949, after Silver 
> Streak purchased all rights to the aluminum C-W Clipper.
>
> This Clipper trailer has had an incorrect Airstream name plate on it for 
> 20 or so years.  But the factory was sold a bill of goods if it purchased 
> that trailer thinking it was an Airstream; it never was and is not today. 
> Attaching an AIRSTREAM name plate onto another brand trailer does not 
> convert it into an Airstream, no matter how hard one wishes.
>
> Frankly, I find it very embarrassing for the factory to have this 
> Curtis-Wright parked out front mis-labeled as an Airstream trailer, 
> especially with a 1960's name plate.  Would Harley-Davidson display an 
> Indian motocycle mis-labeled as a Harley in the Harley museum?  This 
> mis-identification demonstrates the Airstream factory has no real grasp of 
> its product history.
>
> There is no evidence that Wally Byam and Curtis Wright Industries, Inc. 
> ever co-produced a common travel trailer that used both brand names. Wally 
> worked for Curtis Wright until early 1947, when he left to re-establish 
> Airstream.  The Curtis Wright Clippers and Airstream Liners were and 
> remain distinctly different and separate trailers.
>
> The Bambi has an incorrect early deco style AIRSTREAM name plate in the 
> correct location above the front window.
>
> Fred Coldwell
> VAC Archive Historian

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 13:32:54 -0500
From: "Wally" <maltnhops@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] '61 Bambi in Silver Palaces book

I was looking through my Silver Palaces book that I got for Christmas.  It's
fantastic!  (Great job, Douglas)  I was reading about Patrick and Joanne
Ewing's '61 Bambi (WBCCI 3675) in the book.  It says that it has the lowest
known serial number of any Bambi, but doesn't list the number.  Patrick and
Joanne, if you're out there, I'm wondering what the serial number is on your
Bambi.  It's a great looking trailer.

For those of you who have yet to get this book, buy it now.  Buy the calendar,
too.  (I also got that for Christmas)

Take care,
Wally

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 17:46:19 -0500
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL]  Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures

Fred,

Have you ever contacted Dickie with your findings about this trailer?

Scott

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> 
> ...Frankly, I find it very embarrassing for the factory to have this 
> Curtis-Wright parked out front mis-labeled as an Airstream trailer, 
> especially with a 1960's name plate. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 15:55:52 -0700
From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL]  Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures

Scott:

    No, I've never met Dickie.  I mentioned it to Tim Champ in Marketing 
  but he just shrugged it off.

Fred C.

Scott Scheuermann wrote:

> Fred,
> 
> Have you ever contacted Dickie with your findings about this trailer?
> 
> Scott
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> 
>>...Frankly, I find it very embarrassing for the factory to have this 
>>Curtis-Wright parked out front mis-labeled as an Airstream trailer, 
>>especially with a 1960's name plate. 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> 
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:03:52 -0500
From: Rick Kunath <k9ao@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL]  Shirley's Factory Tour Pictures

On Tuesday 28 December 2004 01:24 pm, Wally wrote:
> I also feel that it's wrong to leave
> these historical trailers out in the elements.  Sure, they are meant to be
> used outside, but these trailers need to be preserved.  They will no longer
> be used for their original purpose, so they need an indoor home. 

While I was on the factory tour I tour earlier this month, we were told that 
the building across the street from the main plant will be converted into a 
museum. There are plans to display the trailers that are currently outside, 
and lots more stored away, inside the new museum.

I was under the impression that this would be done after the factory expansion 
to the rear.

Rick Kunath
WBCCI #3060

------------------------------

End of VAL Digest V2 #111
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