The Vintage Airstream E-mail List

Digest Archive Files


VAL Digest V1 #85



VAL Digest         Wednesday, December 3 2003         Volume 01 : Number 085




-----------------------------------------------------------------
When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary Digest text

To unsubscribe or change to an e-mail format, please go to
http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

Topics in Today's Digest:

RE: [VAL] New from factory or new to you
[VAL] 1971 "CARVEL"
[VAL] test
RE: [VAL] Battery of tongue
[VAL] Installing Grote taillights
[VAL] Re: black tank heater vent
Re: [VAL] Center rear brake light wiring 
Re: [VAL] Battery of tongue
Re: [VAL] Installing Grote taillights
RE: [VAL] Installing Grote taillights
Re: [VAL] Battery of tongue
[VAL] welcome
RE: [VAL] 1971 "CARVEL"
RE: [VAL] Installing Grote taillights
Re: [VAL] Installing Grote taillights

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:08:11 -0500
From: "Edward Emerick" <EEMERICK@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] New from factory or new to you

Hello,
One of the things I promised myself was that if I bought it I would
finish it! I have a log that shows the 59 arriving in WI on 9-1-01 and
as of last night I have 359.25 hours in the thing and the insides start
going back in tonight. I figure another 350 hours and $3,000 later and
I'll have it in Oregon at the International Rally. (if it don't kill me
first)
Ed
WBCCI/VAC 4425
68 Sovereign
59 Traveler (well at least half of it)

- -----Original Message-----
From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com
[mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com] On Behalf Of Tuna
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 10:06 PM
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] New from factory or new to you


Amen to all of that, Ed E. and the Tylers... I brought my '48 Trailwind
home on a flatbed in June of 2000, and intended to begin renovation
immediately. Instead, I bought a home and began renovating that; then
bought a vintage tow-vehicle, and began renovating *that*... so, apart
from gutting it, and removing the shell, i've done nought with my
Airstream since i got it.

On the other hand, my long-time acquaintance with Murphy and his Law
prompted me to find a trailer in the first place which i would want to
take my time with, and do the job right, no matter how long it takes...
so, i'm not in a big hurry to get it done. In the meantime, i've got two
working 'test-bed' rv's, a '79 Dodge B-Van, and an '83 Burro
travel-trailer to satisfy our wanderlust...

tuna
reno, nv

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text

To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:10:11 EST
From: Oldguitarheel@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] 1971 "CARVEL"

Hi Everyone,
I am brand new to the list and to Airstreams in general...however I am the 
proud new owner of a 1971 "Caravel"..... 

I will be restoring it and would appreciate any advice ya'll could give in 
finding a handbook and any wiring/plumbing spec sheets for this year and model.

Please feel free tocontact me on or off the list......... my email is 
oldguitarheel@xxxxxxxxxx.com and I am near the Outerbanks of North Carolina.

Thanx in advance to all you listers.....I hope to hear from ya'll soon.

oldguitarheel  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:43:42 -0600
From: "Tom Patterson" <tomp@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] test

test

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:23:46 -0700
From: "Jim Cooper" <jcchome@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Battery of tongue

I've read several replies that express concern about battery gas
corroding other electrical parts and the potential of explosion.  This
suggests the need to isolate the battery from other components and vent
it to the outside.  One reply warned of inconvenience if the electrical
shore power is at the back of the camp site.  I could put a parallel
input connector at the back of the A/S to address this.

I will keep you informed if I proceed with this, or explain why I don't.
Thanks for you inputs.  

Best Regards,
   Jim
 
   jcchome@xxxxxxxxxx.com
   
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com
[mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
> On Behalf Of Jim Cooper
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:36 AM
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: [VAL] Battery of tongue
> 
> I'd like your opinion.   Several of you have commented about battery
> out-gassing and the associated benefit of having the battery outside
of
> the trailer.  I'm thinking about constructing an aluminum box on the
67
> Tradewind tongue that will hold the battery, Univolt, 12vdc fuse
panel,
> and 110vac breaker box.  Shore power will plug into the box.  The skin
> is off the belly now and the wiring changes would not be hard.
> 
> On the up side this will put all electrical utilities into one
location
> outside the cabin and easily maintained.  Out-gassing is now outside.
> New storage space is available inside.  A ground fault interrupter can
> be installed in the new breaker box, which is not possible in the
> original.
> 
> On the down side is additional weight on the tongue, but not much more
> than a spare tire.  It's certainly not original.
> 
> Does anyone have any good argument for or against this idea?
> 
> Best Regards,
>    Jim
> 
>    jcchome@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original
text
> 
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:49:05 -0500
From: Jerry Jarrell <jdj2@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Installing Grote taillights

Hi All,
	I purchased two Grote (52522) tail/turn signal/brake lights for my 57
Overlander. Some of you have indicated you have installed these and my
question is how to rewire the two wires (red and black) of the tail
light to the four wires of the left side light of the TT?? My TT has an
additional light mounted between the tail lights as a bigh brake light
also. It seems that they all (right, left and brake) are wired in a
series. I am no electrician and need some help before I make toast of
three years work!! "Dr. J," I sure could use your expertise on this one.
Thanks in advance.
Jerry (freezing in GA)
WBCCI VAC

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 07:54:17 -0800 (PST)
From: jon fitz <fitzjo1@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Re: black tank heater vent

You could place some coarse wire mesh over the opening
to that vent.  If it is small enough, it will keep out
everything but the critters that can get in somewhere
else anyway.

After being unpleasantly surprised by many changes
made by the PO, I have made a conscious effort to
change functional properties only where they enhance
performance.  I think this approach will save me or a
future owner lots of time and aggravation.  For
example, you never know when you might decide that you
want to do some winter camping.  Then you'll be glad
that you don't have to worry about a cracked black
water tank.  

Jon in SC
68 Overlander

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:27:35 -0700
From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Center rear brake light wiring 

Jerry:

   I installed two different but similarly wired
tail/signal/brake lights on the rear of my 1948 Wee Wind. 
The trailer also has it's original single rear taillight
(with two filaments for brake light and tail light) which I
wanted to have light up as a center brake light only when
the brake lights came on the two new rear lights. 

   I bought from J.C.. Whitney and installed their third
brake light logic circuit (part no. 13UG8974T for $4.99) for
the center brake light.  Now it only comes on when both rear
lights are lit in brake mode but not when either light is
used as a turn signal.  This logic circuit will help
simplify the wiring of your rear lamps if you keep the extra
equipment center brake light on your trailer.  I realize
this hint does not answer your posted question, but it will
help with the center brake light when you rewire your
trailer.  

Fred Coldwell
Denver, CO.       

Jerry Jarrell wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
>         I purchased two Grote (52522) tail/turn signal/brake lights for my 57
> Overlander. Some of you have indicated you have installed these and my
> question is how to rewire the two wires (red and black) of the tail
> light to the four wires of the left side light of the TT?? My TT has an
> additional light mounted between the tail lights as a bigh brake light
> also. It seems that they all (right, left and brake) are wired in a
> series. I am no electrician and need some help before I make toast of
> three years work!! "Dr. J," I sure could use your expertise on this one.
> Thanks in advance.
> Jerry (freezing in GA)
> WBCCI VAC
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> 
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:34:24 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Battery of tongue

Remember that the hydrogen molecule is the smallest molecule and it
tends to go through cracks. Its also light so it tends to rise in air.
Cracks, I said, some metals it will go through the crystal structure.
Its hard to contain. Its relatively easy to disperse if you don't try to
contain it. I don't trust vents. Hydrogen will burn with concentrations
under a few percent up to a very concentration and many ratios are
explosive. A good clean fuel, but extremely hard to contain. I prefer
the battery to be outside with just a plastic battery box to capture
spilled acid and to let the fumes escape easily. And most electrical
apparatus likes being sheltered from the weather, even that in rain
tight boxes lasts poorer than the same breakers inside.

The 1999 NEC requires the receptacle to be on the left (road) side of
the parked vehicle on a line that is 9 feet +/- 1 foot from the
centerline of the stand and shall be located at any point on this line
from the rear of the stand to 15' forward of the rear. On a pull through
site the equipment may be anywhere from 16' forward of the rear of the
stand to 32' forward of the rear of the stand.

Many campgrounds don't meet these rules and can have the receptacle
other places. One that I redesigned, used shared receptacle posts as far
as 100' from parking stalls. The nearby RV store did a land office
business in long extension cords.

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:52:42 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Installing Grote taillights

Its going to take some wire identification with a test light. As
indicated by Fred the center brake light needs a little logic box. I
presume its one of the added wires at your left tail light position but
I don't know that.

You must have a running light wire (on for marker lights and headlights
on the tow vehicle), and a left turn/stop wire. The tow vehicle provides
the logic (these days) to use the same lamp filament for stop and turn.
You want the weaker of the two filaments in the fixture as the
running/tail light and the stronger as the brake/turn. At the right tail
light position there also has to be a running light wire and a Right
stop/turn wire. Its probably that the running light wire expects to be
spliced at the left light.

That leaves a wire. Maybe its the central stop lamp (Chrysler took
nearly 50 years to make the central stop light a requirement) wire. The
logic box will need ground, left turn, right turn, and central stop
light wires.

You can identify the different wires while connected to the tow vehicle
by using a test lamp (I keep a 50 watt 12 volt edison base lamp in a
switched receptacle mounted on a handy box with a pair of clip leads for
just such purposes). You can probably identify the cross wire by finding
it cold all the time and finding it live when connected to the running
lights circuit. You can identify the central brake (and there should be
a wire somewhere for the license plate light that needs to be in the
running lights circuit) by applying power (no more than 12 volts) to see
what lights.

All the lamps will be wired mostly in parallel, but there will be
separate runs for running lights, left turn/stop and right turn/stop.

As for freezing in Georgia, that must mean its below 60 just a little.
I'd have to shed a flannel shirt if its that balmy. Was in St. Louis
area last week and had to shed my flannel shirt most of the time. Though
100 miles south of St. Louis Saturday morning I had to scrape frost from
the truck before I could drive back to Iowa where there's a forecast of
a few inches of snow accumulation by morning.

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:07:10 -0800
From: RJ.Dial@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: RE: [VAL] Installing Grote taillights

The four wires are:
- -taillight (running lights)
- -L turn
- -stop (they used to be seperate)
- -outbound light to the center light

To hook up the modern two wire light:
- -taillight to taillight
- -L turn to the other wire
- -stop - cap-off
- -outbound wire still goes to the to the center light

A test light makes all this easy,
Best of luck,
RJ


> -----Original Message-----
> From: jdj2@xxxxxxxxxx.net [mailto:jdj2@xxxxxxxxxx.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 7:49 AM
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: [VAL] Installing Grote taillights
>
>
> Hi All,
>     I purchased two Grote (52522) tail/turn signal/brake
> lights for my 57
> Overlander. Some of you have indicated you have installed these and my
> question is how to rewire the two wires (red and black) of the tail
> light to the four wires of the left side light of the TT?? My
> TT has an
> additional light mounted between the tail lights as a bigh brake light
> also. It seems that they all (right, left and brake) are wired in a
> series. I am no electrician and need some help before I make toast of
> three years work!! "Dr. J," I sure could use your expertise
> on this one.
> Thanks in advance.
> Jerry (freezing in GA)
> WBCCI VAC

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:12:37 -0600
From: Dean <dean@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Battery of tongue

You may also want to remember that the gas that the battery
gives off is lighter than air so venting the bottom only will
not help.  You need to vent both Top and Bottom.

Thank you
Dean L.
866-206-5962

On Dec 2, 2003, at 9:23 AM, Jim Cooper wrote:

I've read several replies that express concern about battery gas
corroding other electrical parts and the potential of explosion.  This
suggests the need to isolate the battery from other components and vent
it to the outside.  One reply warned of inconvenience if the electrical
shore power is at the back of the camp site.  I could put a parallel
input connector at the back of the A/S to address this.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:35:14 -0500
From: joepatwink@xxxxxxxxxx.net (Joe Winkler)
Subject: [VAL] welcome

 Welcome to the group Oldguitarheel. You will learn a lot, I know I have.
  Joe


__________________________________________________________________
McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network.
Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today!
http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397

Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge.  Download Now!
http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 11:03:38 -0800 
From: "Ross, Wyn" <WRoss@xxxxxxxxxx.co.washoe.nv.us>
Subject: RE: [VAL] 1971 "CARVEL"

Hello oldguitarheel,
You might try Helen Davis at 937-492-8885. I had a quick turnaround on a
request for a 65 GT manual.
Good luck

- -----Original Message-----
From: Oldguitarheel@xxxxxxxxxx.com [mailto:Oldguitarheel@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 5:10 AM
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] 1971 "CARVEL"


Hi Everyone,
I am brand new to the list and to Airstreams in general...however I am the 
proud new owner of a 1971 "Caravel"..... 

I will be restoring it and would appreciate any advice ya'll could give in 
finding a handbook and any wiring/plumbing spec sheets for this year and
model.

Please feel free tocontact me on or off the list......... my email is 
oldguitarheel@xxxxxxxxxx.com and I am near the Outerbanks of North Carolina.

Thanx in advance to all you listers.....I hope to hear from ya'll soon.

oldguitarheel  

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text

To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:22:07 -0600
From: "William Durkee" <bdkli@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Installing Grote taillights

I thought the purpose of the separate stop wire was for the breakaway 
switch?  This way the brake lights will light if the trailer breaks away 
from the vehicle.


Bill Durkee




>The four wires are:
>-taillight (running lights)
>-L turn
>-stop (they used to be seperate)
>-outbound light to the center light
>
>To hook up the modern two wire light:
>-taillight to taillight
>-L turn to the other wire
>-stop - cap-off
>-outbound wire still goes to the to the center light
>
>A test light makes all this easy,
>Best of luck,
>RJ

_________________________________________________________________
Set yourself up for fun at home!  Get tips on home entertainment equipment, 
video game reviews, and more here.   
http://special.msn.com/home/homeent.armx

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:08:17 -0800
From: "Gary Quamen" <g_quamen@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Installing Grote taillights

> I thought the purpose of the separate stop wire was for the breakaway
> switch?  This way the brake lights will light if the trailer breaks away
> from the vehicle.
>
>
> Bill Durkee

Hey Bill:

The breakaway switch is intended to slam 12 volts directly from the trailer
battery into the trailer brakes when the pin is pulled out by the lanyard
attached to your tow vehicle.  There should be no connection to the trailer
brake light circuits.

But then, you weren't by any chance kidding were you?

In any case, several years ago I installed a marine type battery isolation
switch in the positive lead at the battery.  I did it to shut down the
electrical circuits on the trailer when it was in storage or when I wanted
to work on something in those circuits.  Works great and I like it very
much.  But the down side is that I must remember to turn the switch to the
"on" position whenever I go somewhere, otherwise I would not have current to
this breakaway switch. I imagine that is why Airstream didn't provide a
switch there originally, instead allowing the circuits to remain "live" all
the time.  I considered that to be a fire hazard, especially the way the
wires are subject to wear and tear the way they are and chose to isolate
them.  Less chance of running the battery down too.  Then, I also keep a
small solar trickle charger connected to the battery which does a great job
of keeping it topped up.  I connected the charger to a hunk of broom handle
and keep it stuck in the plumbing vent nearest to the battery access door.
The wire running down the side of the trailer reminds me to:

1.  Take the charger down before going someplace.

2.  While I'm in the compartment, turn on the battery switch.

Has worked pretty well so far......(knock-knock)

GQ '67 Safari
4082 in CA

------------------------------

End of VAL Digest V1 #85
************************


-----------------------------------------------------------------
When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary Digest text

To unsubscribe or change to an e-mail format, please go to
http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html