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VAL Digest V1 #84



VAL Digest          Tuesday, December 2 2003          Volume 01 : Number 084




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Topics in Today's Digest:

Re: [VAL]Control panel power ON light with non Univolt  converter
[VAL] Battery of tongue
Re: [VAL] Battery of tongue
Re: [VAL] Battery of tongue
Re: [VAL]Control panel power ON light with non Univolt  converter
Re: [VAL] Battery of tongue
Re: [VAL] Battery of tongue
Re: [VAL]Control panel power ON light with non Univolt  converter
[VAL] New from factory or new to you
Re: [VAL] Battery of tongue
Re: [VAL] New from factory or new to you
Re: [VAL] Battery of tongue

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Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 06:42:48 -0700
From: "Bob Hightower" <rhightower@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL]Control panel power ON light with non Univolt  converter

Thanks for the solution to having no power on lamp. I'd like to see the
photos, and any schematics you might have.

Bob Hightower
'76 31' Sov

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Oliver Filippi" <ofilippi@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL]Control panel power ON light with non Univolt converter


> Several weeks ago I posted some info on my installation of an Intellipower
> converter with Charge Wizard replacing the Univolt in my '76 Tradewind.
>
> As many of you may know, the Univolt has an additional wire which connects
> to the main fuse panel to activate the "power on" light on the central
> control panel when shore power (120 Volts) is connected to the trailer.
> Other, non Airstream, converters do not include this "power on lead",
hence
> the "Power on light" does not go on when the converter is operating.
>
> My son and I studied the wiring diagrams etc. and did some "industrial
> archeology" to determine how the indicator lamp actually worked. From
this,
> we implemented a rather elegant solution (which causes the Power On light
to
> function properly - come on whenever external 120 volt power is connected
to
> the trailer). I am happy to share our solution with other Airstreamers who
> may wish to use it on their trailers. As it turned out, the Univolt
actuated
> the power on light in a rather counter intuitive manner.
>
> First some background:
> The "power on light" on the central control panel is intended to show that
> 120 volt shore power is connected to the trailer and the converter.
>
> Since the control panel is wired for 12 Volt components,  the indicator
> light needs a 12 volt source, actuated by a live 120 volt feed.  The
design
> of the control panel is such that the 12 volts is supplied to the control
> panel by a common feed.  Thus, there actually is 12 volts at the "Power
On"
> indicator lamp as long as the 12 volt battery is connected, whether or not
> shore power is connected. HOWEVER, the GROUND (or return) from the
indicator
> light is NOT connected to ground UNLESS the Univolt lead connects it to
> ground - which happens when the Univolt is energized by the 120 Volt power
> hookup.
>
> Hence the Filippi solution is to connect the ground lead of the indicator
> lamp to ground when 120 volts is supplied to the trailer, via a 120 volt
AC
> relay as follows:
>
> The power converter (in my case an Intellipower with Charge Wizard) is
> plugged in to the trailer's 120 volt duplex receptacle under the galley
> sink. [On my '76 Tradewind, the converter is mounted on a shelf behind the
> stove, adjacent to the sink.]  I fashioned a small electronic box with a
120
> volt power cord (which plugs into the other receptacle in the duplex
outlet)
> and is connected to a Radio Shack 120 volt relay.  A wire from the main
fuse
> panel (which would have run to the Univolt power on lead) is connected to
> one of the closed when energized terminals of the relay. A second wire is
> connected to the other side of the "closed" relay circuit and connected to
> ground.  I used is a plug in type relay, so I mounted a relay socket to my
> "Control Box".  This small electronic box is fastened to the shelf behind
> the stove and is accessible from the sliding panel on the side of the
> cabinet on the lounge end of the cabinet. If I don't want the bright power
> on light to glow while hooked up to shore power, I can simply unplug the
> relay.
>
> Thus, when 120 volt shore power is available to the converter (and my
> control box) the 120 volt relay activates and completes the circuit on the
> power on lamp, and, voila, the lamp lights!
>
>
> I have some photos of the installation which I will be happy to e-mail to
> anyone who is interested, or post for the archives if you think this would
> be desirable.
>
> Sincerely,
> Oliver Filippi
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

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Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:36:23 -0700
From: "Jim Cooper" <jcchome@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Battery of tongue

I'd like your opinion.   Several of you have commented about battery
out-gassing and the associated benefit of having the battery outside of
the trailer.  I'm thinking about constructing an aluminum box on the 67
Tradewind tongue that will hold the battery, Univolt, 12vdc fuse panel,
and 110vac breaker box.  Shore power will plug into the box.  The skin
is off the belly now and the wiring changes would not be hard.  
 
On the up side this will put all electrical utilities into one location
outside the cabin and easily maintained.  Out-gassing is now outside.
New storage space is available inside.  A ground fault interrupter can
be installed in the new breaker box, which is not possible in the
original.  
 
On the down side is additional weight on the tongue, but not much more
than a spare tire.  It's certainly not original.
 
Does anyone have any good argument for or against this idea?
 
Best Regards,
   Jim
 
   jcchome@xxxxxxxxxx.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:04:24 -0800
From: "chyde" <chyde@primelink1.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Battery of tongue

> Does anyone have any good argument for or against this idea?
>
> Best Regards,
>    Jim

Jim,
Is any of the stuff you're planning on putting in the box with the battery
likely to make any kind of spark? If so, you may have a bomb along with a
detonator mounted on the tongue. Complete with a good supply of pressurized
propane to make a really big bang.
Just a thought.
Colin

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:17:25 -0800
From: "michelle" <safoocat@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Battery of tongue

Hi Jim,

Another downside is your electronics are outside in the weather. With proper
vents how much problem
is gas from a battery?
Michelle

"People will forget what you said. People will forget what you do. People
will never forget how you made them feel."

On the down side is additional weight on the tongue, but not much more
than a spare tire.  It's certainly not original.

Does anyone have any good argument for or against this idea?

Best Regards,
   Jim

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:35:06 -0500
From: Daisy Welch <jtdjtd@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL]Control panel power ON light with non Univolt  converter

Now, If you replace the lamp with an LED you're perfect !

Daisy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:43:19 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Battery of tongue

Keep the electrical stuff away from the battery. Those acid fumes eat
copper based parts for lunch, and the H + O fumes just need the tiniest
of spark to explode.

My dad removed the spare tire carrier from the front of the Caravel to
put the battery out front. The spare tire now travels in the truck bed
under the topper, protected more from sun and borrowing.

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:49:36 EST
From: JSmith1805@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Battery of tongue

I would not worry about additional weight on the tounge when I went all 
electric I mounted 200 lb of generator on the toungue of my tradewind and i found 
it tracked much better than before. Some of the older trailers had the battery 
on the toungue but if I am correct I believe they were the long narrow 
battries.
J
Jim Smith
1965 Tradewind

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Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:05:37 -0600
From: Dean <dean@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL]Control panel power ON light with non Univolt  converter

DON'T forget to add a resistor to limit the current to the LED.
Many if you place them across 12VDC you will make a firecracker.
It will take about a 1000 ohm to 1500 ohm resistor to keep the
current down.

Thank you
Dean L.
866-206-5962

On Dec 1, 2003, at 10:35 AM, Daisy Welch wrote:

Now, If you replace the lamp with an LED you're perfect !

Daisy

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:38:39 -0500
From: Terry Tyler <tylerbears@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] New from factory or new to you

on 11/28/03 1:00 AM, valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:

> snip
> 
> I have written out a list of what you can expect to find with a use unit, if
> you contact me off list I will send you these words of wisdom?! The bottom
> line is if you go used get ready to replace parts, spend some $$ and expect to
> donate some blood along the way.
> 
> Like I said I have enjoyed my journey but it would take some talking to get me
> to do it again.
> 
> snip
> 
Hi Ed Emerick,

Would you send your list to me? I'd like to compare notes.

Your comment "it would take some talking to get me to do it again" brought a
smile and head-nodding agreement. I have had an unrestored '63 22' Flying
Cloud in our back yard for three years. I bought it when the restoration of
our '67 22' Safari was moving along quickly.  My thinking was we'd sell the
'67 soon and start on the '63.  Little did we know what was about to occur.

First - July 2003 happened. We took the '67 to the WBCCI Convention in
Burlington. Surprise of surprises ....  everything worked on the '67 and
everything worked on our restored tow vehicle - a '75 Mercury Wagon. In
fact, all Summer long everything worked on both. Even the mirror shined 17'
aluminum canoe on top of the Mercury was leak free when we explored small
lakes and rivers. We enjoyed those two months far more than either us ever
anticipated. The '67 22' Safari is a comfortable Summer Cottage.

Then in September 2003, we took the '67 with us on the WBCCI Lighthouse
Caravan around the Michigan Peninsula. We towed with our diesel Surburban
and everything continued to work on the Airstream. We thought - "Gads, we
actually did a helluva good job with this one. It's mechanically reliable;
the new upholstery, foam, drapes and carpet click with our sensibilities;
and the mirror shine is outstanding. "

Anyhow .... and I never dreamed I'd be saying this; I'm not sure when we'll
start restoring the Flying Cloud. The Safari feels so right to us that we
may not be able to part with it after all. We may have a keeper here.

Perhaps we'll limit ourselves to only two (3?) Airstreams - the '89 32' we
tow south when it's too cold in the North (our Winter Quarters), the '67 22'
we use up north when it's too hot in the South (our Summer Cottage) and the
'63 22'  we contemplate in our back yard (our Lady-in-Waiting).

Ed, your exact words were "Like I said I have enjoyed my journey but it
would take some talking to get me to do it again." If I was saying it, I'd
add three more words to that sentence. My words would be - It would take a
<lot more than> some talking to get me to do it again.

Terry

mailto:tylerbear@xxxxxxxxxx.net

PS -Today is 11/30/03 Sunday. Temperatures up North are freezing. Here in
Florida we're soaking up sunshine and sipping cool ones.  Life is good.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:08:14 -0500
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Battery of tongue

The one thing that comes to mind would be the location for the shore power
plug. Hookups at campgrounds are generally at one of two locations. The
roadside middle of the campsite or at the rear. If you run accross a rear
campsite you would need to have an extension, perhaps two at some locations.

Scott
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Cooper" <jcchome@xxxxxxxxxx.com>

... I'm thinking about constructing an aluminum box on the 67
> Tradewind tongue that will hold the battery, Univolt, 12vdc fuse panel,
> and 110vac breaker box.  Shore power will plug into the box.  The skin
> is off the belly now and the wiring changes would not be hard.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:06:08 -0800
From: "Tuna" <rctowns@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] New from factory or new to you

Amen to all of that, Ed E. and the Tylers... I brought my '48 Trailwind home
on a flatbed in June of 2000, and intended to begin renovation immediately.
Instead, I bought a home and began renovating that; then bought a vintage
tow-vehicle, and began renovating *that*... so, apart from gutting it, and
removing the shell, i've done nought with my Airstream since i got it.

On the other hand, my long-time acquaintance with Murphy and his Law
prompted me to find a trailer in the first place which i would want to take
my time with, and do the job right, no matter how long it takes... so, i'm
not in a big hurry to get it done. In the meantime, i've got two working
'test-bed' rv's, a '79 Dodge B-Van, and an '83 Burro travel-trailer to
satisfy our wanderlust...

tuna
reno, nv

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 20:24:34 -0700
From: "gshippen" <gshippen@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Battery of tongue

Jim,

I recently reconfigured the hitch/"A" frame on the Globe Trotter to
accommodate the battery down within the "A" frame area.  After examining the
structural integrity of the A-frame I reinforced said frame with 3" x 5"
angle irons back inside the belly skin.  The resulting ledge created by the
overlap of the 3" segment allowed a nice ledge on which to mount a battery
box.  My thoughts still return to the scenario of a spark from the battery,
igniting a possible gas leak from the gas bottles.

However I think there is ample air flow around the bottles and the battery
box, which may indeed be the saving factor.  Case in point:  When I
initially examined the gas system I found a line fitting on the belly pan
exterior that was cracked and had been leaking gas for who knows how long
and apparently had not ignited.

I now realize that the gases from the battery chamber in our Overlander may
have on several occasions given us headaches.  I used to lay in bed and
listen to the battery boiling and remember some distinct odor of acid in the
battery chamber area.

For what its worth....GAS


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Cooper" <jcchome@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:36 AM
Subject: [VAL] Battery of tongue


> I'd like your opinion.   Several of you have commented about battery
> out-gassing and the associated benefit of having the battery outside of
> the trailer.  I'm thinking about constructing an aluminum box on the 67
> Tradewind tongue that will hold the battery, Univolt, 12vdc fuse panel,
> and 110vac breaker box.  Shore power will plug into the box.  The skin
> is off the belly now and the wiring changes would not be hard.
>
> On the up side this will put all electrical utilities into one location
> outside the cabin and easily maintained.  Out-gassing is now outside.
> New storage space is available inside.  A ground fault interrupter can
> be installed in the new breaker box, which is not possible in the
> original.
>
> On the down side is additional weight on the tongue, but not much more
> than a spare tire.  It's certainly not original.
>
> Does anyone have any good argument for or against this idea?
>
> Best Regards,
>    Jim
>
>    jcchome@xxxxxxxxxx.com
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

End of VAL Digest V1 #84
************************


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