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VAL Digest V1 #83



VAL Digest          Monday, December 1 2003          Volume 01 : Number 083




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Topics in Today's Digest:

Re: [VAL] Delivery failure to <admin@xxxxxxxxxx.org> ...
Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet flange and the black water tank
Fwd: Re: [VAL] Delivery failure to <admin@xxxxxxxxxx.org> ...
[VAL] Curtis Wright "Clipper" 
Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet flange and the black water tank
RE: [VAL] New from factory or new to you
Re: [VAL] Curtis Wright "Clipper" 
[VAL] curved corning glass available
[VAL] guess your hitch weight
[VAL] winter battery storage
Re: [VAL]Control panel power ON light with non Univolt converter
Re: [VAL] winter battery storage
Re: [VAL] winter battery storage

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 05:43:37 -0500
From: pryner@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Delivery failure to <admin@xxxxxxxxxx.org> ...

Toby,
Thanks for the reply.  I changed to the digest format and
only saw three messages yesterday, two of mine which didn't
show up while I was signed up for the list.  I changed back
to the list yesterday and am getting some mail.  I posted
two messages a couple of days ago for some corning windows I
have available.  I never saw them on the list and can't find
them in the archive.  I don't want to resend if either have
been received.  I sent them to Vaclist@xxxxxxxxxx.net. 
Thanks again for your help.
Pete 

- ----- Original Message Follows -----
> 
> the admin@xxxxxxxxxx.net address comes to me - but the
> list is now hosted at Tom Patterson's site
> (tompatterson.com)
> 
> the list seems to be working, and we have received
> your message.
> 
> Toby Folwick
> 
> 
> 
> --- Roger Hightower <rwhigh@xxxxxxxxxx.net> wrote:
> > It's probably because he's trying to send postings
> > to .org instead of .net.
> > 
> > Roger
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________
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> ----------------------------------------------------------
> ------- When replying to a message. please delete all
> unnecessary original text
> 
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 04:11:49 -0500
From: Matt Worner <wornmatt@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet flange and the black water tank

RESORARCHITECT@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
<snip> Did you know that a
> portion of the heat duct work (Ours is a '65 Airstream) extends back into the 
> black water tank compartment?! I was very suprised to see that! I guess it's 
> supposed to heat the sewage and keep it from freezing, right? 

That's exactly why it's there.

That detail may have
> been the conduit for vermine and odors to get in. We will cap it off. 

I'd sure hate to bet that the trailer will never again go where it's 
cold outside.  If you have mousies in your housie I doubt the heater 
ducts are their entry route unless the ductwork is no longer intact. 
I'll bet you would be happier in the long run if you just got the 
original heat system up to snuff.  As far as the odors are concerned, is 
the vent pipe clear?  The leaking flange is also a pretty good bet, and 
you are fixing that.

Thanks,
> Stuart
> 
Matt

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 07:11:16 -0500
From: pryner@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: [VAL] Delivery failure to <admin@xxxxxxxxxx.org> ...

Toby,
Thanks for the reply.  I changed to the digest format and
only saw three messages yesterday, two of mine which didn't
show up while I was signed up for the list.  I changed back
to the list yesterday and am getting some mail.  I posted
two messages a couple of days ago for some corning windows I
have available.  I never saw them on the list and can't find
them in the archive.  I don't want to resend if either have
been received.  I sent them to Vaclist@xxxxxxxxxx.net. 
Thanks again for your help.
Pete 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 06:47:10 -0700
From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Curtis Wright "Clipper" 

I'll add the other 0.66% to Tuna's reply by noting the
manufacturer's correct name is "Curtis Wright Industries,
Inc." with only one "s" at the end of Curtis, the first name
of company founder Curtis Wright.  This name appears on the
trailer's data tag in photos from Tom's archives, mentioned
in Herb's reply.  Curtiss-Wright with two "ss" is a
different entity formed around WW I from merging the
aviation interests of Glenn Curtiss and the Wright
Brothers.  Wally worked for Curtis Wright Industries, Inc.,
immediately after WW II, where he designed their aluminum
Clipper trailer shown in Susan's photos.      

Fred Coldwell
Tuna wrote:
> 
> I'm 99.44% certain that this is a post-war Byam-designed Curtiss-Wright.
> Like the Airstreams, it may have been designated 'The Clipper'.
> 
> tuna
> reno, nv
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Susan Altstatt" <dsa@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 1:51 PM
> Subject: [VAL] mystery 'stream
> 
> > Hello All, and Happy Post Thanksgiving:
> >
> > I just came across some photographs take a couple years ago
> > while we were touring between Calif. and Pendleton, Oregon.
> >
> > This 'stream was in the Cresent, Or. (South of Bend on 97) RV park
> > where we stayed overnight.
> >
> > It is about 20' long, and has a pipe frame tongue. No name plate in
> > sight. Note the Idaho license plate.
> >
> > Looks like it's in excellent shape.
> >
> > http://www.altstatt.com/~dsa/airstream/cresent_stream1.jpg
> > http://www.altstatt.com/~dsa/airstream/cresent_stream2.jpg
> > http://www.altstatt.com/~dsa/airstream/cresent_stream3.jpg
> >
> > Perhaps some of the "old pros" will recognize which year/model
> > this one is.
> >
> > -----
> >
> > Susan Altstatt
> > Altstatt Associates
> > www.altstatt.com
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> 
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:14:29 -0600
From: Jim Clark <jec1938@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Toilet flange and the black water tank

At 09:46 PM 11/29/2003, you wrote:
  Did you know that a
>portion of the heat duct work (Ours is a '65 Airstream) extends back into the
>black water tank compartment?! I was very suprised to see that! I guess it's
>supposed to heat the sewage and keep it from freezing, right? That detail 
>may have
>been the conduit for vermine and odors to get in. We will cap it off. Thanks,
>Stuart
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------


In my case the furnace needs all the piping it has to exhaust enough heat 
to cool the furnace to a point where the high temp switch will not shut off 
the furnace.. If that happens, the blower runs continuously and kills the 
battery, and you have to shut off the furnace , wait 10-15 min and then you 
can turn on the furnace again...

The previous owner had fixed the problem by adding an extra duct in the 
kitchen, but used an adjustable outlet that could be shut off .... and of 
course it got shut off.... the switch had apparently operated too many 
times (even though I had replaced the furnace)  and the relight process 
failed.... I had some nice conversations with RV shops that were warranty 
repair places for the furnace and they were not interested on doing 
warranty repair on trailers they did not sell... not that they were 
refusing (this is where the blood pressure goes up), just that they did not 
have any openings on their schedules... even if I towed it right to their 
door...

The point is that you might not get the outcome you desire by capping any 
of the furnace outlets... and it won't fail while you are at home... it 
will fail come cold night when the furnace is running almost full time 
trying to keep the temp in the trailer comfortable..Your first clue will be 
waking up in the cold , but the furnace is running... like you ran out of 
LP... stove works so there is gas... one of the overloads in the furnace 
killed it and the relight process may or may not work... if it does not, 
forget the furnace and go to an alternate plan to keep warm....

Jim 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 10:58:34 -0700
From: "Jim Cooper" <jcchome@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] New from factory or new to you

Terry,

You wrote about Airstream differences by year (see below).  This would
be very useful information, but not easily available.  I've participated
in this forum and the other one for about nine months and about the only
thing I've learned by year is that my 67 has unique Corning windows.
Airstreams very in construction within a year I've read.  The big
question is, is there a complied source that describes the variations
you mentioned?

Best Regards,
   Jim
 
   jcchome@xxxxxxxxxx.com
   
 

> 
> Other concepts in the mix are the subtle variables that few
Airstreamers
> talk about in public; like the difference in skin thickness (by year
of
> manufacture) when it comes to damage which can be caused by hail
stones;
> or
> the difference in weight of materials (by year of manufacture) used
for
> cupboards, lockers and refrigerator doors; or knowing which years the
> factory used particle board instead of plywood on the floor; or which
> years
> they offered thermopane windows: or the Everpure QC2 water filter; or
had
> high road clearance (for off road use); and the list goes on and on.
What
> ever priority level a buyer has for specific features will inevitably
be
> factored in - by intent or not (whether they know it or don't have a
> clue).

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 10:08:20 -0800
From: "Tuna" <rctowns@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Curtis Wright "Clipper" 

Thanks for the Curtis Wright/Curtiss-Wright clarification, Fred - part of my
continuing confusion stems from the fact that Curtis Wright, Inc. was in the
aviation business, too...

tuna

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 5:47 AM
Subject: [VAL] Curtis Wright "Clipper"


> I'll add the other 0.66% to Tuna's reply by noting the
> manufacturer's correct name is "Curtis Wright Industries,
> Inc." with only one "s" at the end of Curtis, the first name
> of company founder Curtis Wright.  This name appears on the
> trailer's data tag in photos from Tom's archives, mentioned
> in Herb's reply.  Curtiss-Wright with two "ss" is a
> different entity formed around WW I from merging the
> aviation interests of Glenn Curtiss and the Wright
> Brothers.  Wally worked for Curtis Wright Industries, Inc.,
> immediately after WW II, where he designed their aluminum
> Clipper trailer shown in Susan's photos.
>
> Fred Coldwell
> Tuna wrote:
> >
> > I'm 99.44% certain that this is a post-war Byam-designed Curtiss-Wright.
> > Like the Airstreams, it may have been designated 'The Clipper'.
> >
> > tuna
> > reno, nv
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Susan Altstatt" <dsa@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> > To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 1:51 PM
> > Subject: [VAL] mystery 'stream
> >
> > > Hello All, and Happy Post Thanksgiving:
> > >
> > > I just came across some photographs take a couple years ago
> > > while we were touring between Calif. and Pendleton, Oregon.
> > >
> > > This 'stream was in the Cresent, Or. (South of Bend on 97) RV park
> > > where we stayed overnight.
> > >
> > > It is about 20' long, and has a pipe frame tongue. No name plate in
> > > sight. Note the Idaho license plate.
> > >
> > > Looks like it's in excellent shape.
> > >
> > > http://www.altstatt.com/~dsa/airstream/cresent_stream1.jpg
> > > http://www.altstatt.com/~dsa/airstream/cresent_stream2.jpg
> > > http://www.altstatt.com/~dsa/airstream/cresent_stream3.jpg
> > >
> > > Perhaps some of the "old pros" will recognize which year/model
> > > this one is.
> > >
> > > -----
> > >
> > > Susan Altstatt
> > > Altstatt Associates
> > > www.altstatt.com
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> > http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 17:39:39 -0500
From: pryner@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] curved corning glass available

I just dismantled the remains of a '68 Ambassador 28'.  I
needed a door and some other small parts.  I planned to put
the windows in my trailer, but have decided to leave well
enough alone.  So I now have 4 curved corning glass windows
available for sale.  Three are 39" and one is 29". 
Unfortunately, I broke the small window on the right front
trying carefully to put it down.  What an explosion! 
Anyway, I am in the Tampa area and do not plan to ship these
as they are very fragile.  I will ship only if you provide
packing and shipping details and accept responsibility if
they break.  Please contact me off list if you are
interested.  I also have a few window and vent regulators,
window latch mechanisms, some screens and the rear access
door.  The rest of the trailer has been taken away for metal
recovery.  Unfortunately it just was not feasible to
restore.
Pete
pryner@xxxxxxxxxx.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 14:56:52 -0800 (PST)
From: jon fitz <fitzjo1@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] guess your hitch weight

Some posts a few weeks back finally motivated me to
measure my hitch weight.  If you've ever believed the
numbers in the manual, this post is for you.

Estimated hitch weight (in Owner's Manual) 450 lbs.
Actual hitch weight 690 lbs.

There was no fresh water in the tank, only about 30lbs
of LPG, and relatively little stored inside.  As an
experiment, I had my wife stand as far forward as the
entry door and as far back as the bathroom door.  As
expected, the load variation at the hitch was much
less than her weight (notice that I don't mention
actual numbers here...), owing to the relative
distances from the wheels.  So, it would take a lot of
heavy stuff in the bathroom to get the hitchweight
down to 450lbs.  I suspect that you would be risking
frame separation if you actually balanced it out that
way.

Jon in SC
68 Overlander

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Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 19:11:07 -0500
From: joepatwink@xxxxxxxxxx.net (Joe Winkler)
Subject: [VAL] winter battery storage

Thanks to those who wrote to give suggestions on winter battery storage. Over the 
Thanksgiving weekend I did finally have time to begin exploring my 64 Tradewind and 
I discovered several facts (or near facts perhaps).
  1. The black water tank is not original, or at least it doesn't have the cast iron 
flange several of you wrote about.
  2. The battery is gone, and the recharging system has been replaced by a 6 Amp 
charger such as you buy at Target or K-Mart.
  3. Both the plug-in for 120 v and for a garden hose are outside the trailer.
  4. The prior owner was obsessed with insulation behind the access doors and around 
the wheel wells but didn't notice that it didn't stay in place.
  All of these things make me lust for spring and the chance to begin working on it. 
It is going to be a busy and fun summer.
  Joe

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:26:29 -0800
From: "Oliver Filippi" <ofilippi@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL]Control panel power ON light with non Univolt converter

Several weeks ago I posted some info on my installation of an Intellipower
converter with Charge Wizard replacing the Univolt in my '76 Tradewind.

As many of you may know, the Univolt has an additional wire which connects
to the main fuse panel to activate the "power on" light on the central
control panel when shore power (120 Volts) is connected to the trailer.
Other, non Airstream, converters do not include this "power on lead", hence
the "Power on light" does not go on when the converter is operating.

My son and I studied the wiring diagrams etc. and did some "industrial
archeology" to determine how the indicator lamp actually worked. From this,
we implemented a rather elegant solution (which causes the Power On light to
function properly - come on whenever external 120 volt power is connected to
the trailer). I am happy to share our solution with other Airstreamers who
may wish to use it on their trailers. As it turned out, the Univolt actuated
the power on light in a rather counter intuitive manner.

First some background:
The "power on light" on the central control panel is intended to show that
120 volt shore power is connected to the trailer and the converter.

Since the control panel is wired for 12 Volt components,  the indicator
light needs a 12 volt source, actuated by a live 120 volt feed.  The design
of the control panel is such that the 12 volts is supplied to the control
panel by a common feed.  Thus, there actually is 12 volts at the "Power On"
indicator lamp as long as the 12 volt battery is connected, whether or not
shore power is connected. HOWEVER, the GROUND (or return) from the indicator
light is NOT connected to ground UNLESS the Univolt lead connects it to
ground - which happens when the Univolt is energized by the 120 Volt power
hookup.

Hence the Filippi solution is to connect the ground lead of the indicator
lamp to ground when 120 volts is supplied to the trailer, via a 120 volt AC
relay as follows:

The power converter (in my case an Intellipower with Charge Wizard) is
plugged in to the trailer's 120 volt duplex receptacle under the galley
sink. [On my '76 Tradewind, the converter is mounted on a shelf behind the
stove, adjacent to the sink.]  I fashioned a small electronic box with a 120
volt power cord (which plugs into the other receptacle in the duplex outlet)
and is connected to a Radio Shack 120 volt relay.  A wire from the main fuse
panel (which would have run to the Univolt power on lead) is connected to
one of the closed when energized terminals of the relay. A second wire is
connected to the other side of the "closed" relay circuit and connected to
ground.  I used is a plug in type relay, so I mounted a relay socket to my
"Control Box".  This small electronic box is fastened to the shelf behind
the stove and is accessible from the sliding panel on the side of the
cabinet on the lounge end of the cabinet. If I don't want the bright power
on light to glow while hooked up to shore power, I can simply unplug the
relay.

Thus, when 120 volt shore power is available to the converter (and my
control box) the 120 volt relay activates and completes the circuit on the
power on lamp, and, voila, the lamp lights!


I have some photos of the installation which I will be happy to e-mail to
anyone who is interested, or post for the archives if you think this would
be desirable.

Sincerely,
Oliver Filippi

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:14:07 -0700
From: "gshippen" <gshippen@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] winter battery storage

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Winkler" <joepatwink@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 5:11 PM
Subject: [VAL] winter battery storage


> Thanks to those who wrote to give suggestions on winter battery storage.
Over the Thanksgiving weekend I did finally have time to begin exploring my
64 Tradewind and I discovered several facts (or near facts perhaps).
>   1. The black water tank is not original, or at least it doesn't have the
cast iron flange several of you wrote about.
>   2. The battery is gone, and the recharging system has been replaced by a
6 Amp charger such as you buy at Target or K-Mart.
>   3. Both the plug-in for 120 v and for a garden hose are outside the
trailer.
>   4. The prior owner was obsessed with insulation behind the access doors
and around the wheel wells but didn't notice that it didn't stay in place.
>   All of these things make me lust for spring and the chance to begin
working on it. It is going to be a busy and fun summer.
>   Joe
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network.
> Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial
today!
> http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397
>
> Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge.  Download Now!
> http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:20:18 -0700
From: "gshippen" <gshippen@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] winter battery storage

I'm with you Joe,

Already I'm looking toward those days in late February when we get warm
sunny days and can work for a few hours.  I'm simply going to resume
polishing operations on the Globe Trotter to finish out those hard-to-get-to
areas.  Great work to enjoy the first signs of spring!  Happy Trails,

GAS
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Winkler" <joepatwink@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 5:11 PM
Subject: [VAL] winter battery storage


> Thanks to those who wrote to give suggestions on winter battery storage.
Over the Thanksgiving weekend I did finally have time to begin exploring my
64 Tradewind and I discovered several facts (or near facts perhaps).
>   1. The black water tank is not original, or at least it doesn't have the
cast iron flange several of you wrote about.
>   2. The battery is gone, and the recharging system has been replaced by a
6 Amp charger such as you buy at Target or K-Mart.
>   3. Both the plug-in for 120 v and for a garden hose are outside the
trailer.
>   4. The prior owner was obsessed with insulation behind the access doors
and around the wheel wells but didn't notice that it didn't stay in place.
>   All of these things make me lust for spring and the chance to begin
working on it. It is going to be a busy and fun summer.
>   Joe
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network.
> Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial
today!
> http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397
>
> Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge.  Download Now!
> http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

End of VAL Digest V1 #83
************************


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