The Vintage Airstream E-mail ListDigest Archive Files
VAL Digest V1 #334
VAL Digest Monday, August 9 2004 Volume 01 : Number 334
-----------------------------------------------------------------
When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary Digest text
To unsubscribe or change to an e-mail format, please go to
http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
Topics in Today's Digest:
Re: [VAL] Nitrogen gas
[VAL] Re: Nitrogen in tires
[VAL] 65 ambassador oven gas
[VAL] DirecTV question needs and answe, please
Re: [VAL] DirecTV question needs and answe, please
Re: [VAL] Re: Nitrogen in tires
Re: [VAL] Re: Nitrogen in tires
Re: [VAL] Re: Nitrogen in tires
Re: [VAL] DirecTV question needs and answe, please
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 09:00:43 -0500
From: Dean <dean@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Nitrogen gas
The only reason the phone co is using nitrogen is that is is Air Core
cable.
They pump DRY AIR form central sites down the cable at about 5 psi.
This is to keep the water out.
When you see the nitrogen tank along the road they have an air leak and
they are too busy that week to fix it. It is a very costly stop-gap
way to
buy some time.
Nitrogen has nothing to do with longer life.
Getting on to tires. I think the reason that race car drivers us it
is for the same
reason... Not for longer life but it is a DRY type of air. In a race
care the tires
will get Very hot and if you had any water or moisture in them it would
boil and
make steam... This would cause the tire to have too much air in it and
blow out.
Nitrogen is the major part of the air we breath and it is easy to
compress into a
tank, around 2000 psi. Now that makes it easy to transport this Dry
Air to fill
tires or phone cables.
See You On the Road
Dean & Kay
WBCCI 2486
IOWA
On Aug 7, 2004, at 5:59 PM, Mark wrote:
>> advocating nitrogen gas to inflate tires in lieu of regular
> compressed air
>
> TPC (The Phone Company) has been charging their splice boxes with
> nitrogen for
> many years...no oxygen=no oxidation. A friend who worked for them
> swore by
> nitrogen in his tires. Of course, he got it for free, right off the
> back of
> the truck, but he claimed his tires lasted a lot longer.
>
> Mark in Modesto
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 14:20:02 -0400
From: John Sellers <sellersj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Re: Nitrogen in tires
Dr. J,
I'm 100% with you on this one. One of the local tire dealers is
extensively advertising nitrogen inflation on TV and radio. As an
engineer who is very conversant with the physics of gases it seems to me
that the claimed advantages are greatly [pardon me] _overinflated_.
At the risk of being called pedantic, let me briefly review physics:
Dry air consists of 79% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and traces of other gases
like carbon dioxide, argon, etc.
Now, the physical [as opposed to chemical] properties of a pure gas
depend on the number of atoms in the molecules (one, two, or more) and
the molecular weight. Nitrogen, N2, is a diatomic gas having a
molecular weight of 28 and oxygen, O2, is a diatomic gas having a
molecular weight of 32.
So there's very little difference between the physical properties of
nitrogen and oxygen, and practically no measureable difference between
the physical properties of dry air and dry nitrogen, since air is 79%
nitrogen to begin with.
Nitrogen doesn't expand and contract with temperature? Not true.
Identical to air in that respect.
Tires run cooler with nitrogen inflation? Oh? Why? The physical
properties of the filling gas are the same in either case and everything
else is the same. You might get your tires to run a little cooler if
you filled them with helium, a monatomic gas having a very high thermal
conductivity. (But you couldn't keep them full very long--helium can
leak through almost anything!)
_Chemically_, nitrogen is less active than oxygen--not really an inert
gas but closer to it than oxygen. But tires fail from tread wear and
sidewall deterioration from sunlight (and running underinflated), not by
oxidation from the inside out. So where's the advantage?
I suppose the advantage of nitrogen inflation--if there is any--is that
nitrogen from a high pressure bottle is truly dry, while air from your
air compressor is saturated with water vapor. As Dr. J. points out,
this affects the pressure versus temperature curve down to the freezing
point, at which point the water freezes out and no longer affects the
pressure. You can secure the benefit of dryness with an air dryer in
the air line if you want to.
But we live in a world where people make money selling designer-label
bottled water, gold-plated speaker wires, and any number of other things
costing significant money in return for illusory advantages. If people
want to pay extra for nitrogen inflation, it's OK with me.
But I think I'll stick with plain old air.
Best,
John Sellers
WBCCI/VAC #1587
1960 Pacer
Dayton, Ohio
> Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 22:05:51 -0500
> From: "Dr. Gerald Johnson" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Subject: [VAL] Nitrogen in tires
>
> I guess I don't see the benefit of Nitrogen in trailer tires. They are going
> to die of old age from sun cracking the sidewalls, not from the inside
> long before there's significant tread wear for most of us. Only those on
> the road most of the year will wear their tires out.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 12:46:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: ken clarkson <sojnab@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] 65 ambassador oven gas
I'm still trying to figure out how to turn on the gas
on my 65 ambassador oven. Any ideas as to where the
valve is closest to the oven? The oven is adjacent to
the fridge and not attached to the stove top (which is
by the sink).
- -Ken
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 17:02:14 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] DirecTV question needs and answe, please
Does anyone know the answer to this question?
I got this from another list I'm on.
"I have a Motorola DirecTV reciever that is beeping; a single tone about
every 7 minutes. This happened once before about five years ago, and I
can't for the life of me remember how to reset whatever it is that's
causing the beep. Anybody know?"
Tom
WBCCI 5303
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 14:22:36 -0700
From: "Bob Hightower" <rhightower@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] DirecTV question needs and answe, please
Is it the receiver, or the TV? On mine, it was because I hadn't set the time
on the TV.
Bob Hightower
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
To: "VAList" <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 2:02 PM
Subject: [VAL] DirecTV question needs and answe, please
> Does anyone know the answer to this question?
>
> I got this from another list I'm on.
>
>
> "I have a Motorola DirecTV reciever that is beeping; a single tone about
> every 7 minutes. This happened once before about five years ago, and I
> can't for the life of me remember how to reset whatever it is that's
> causing the beep. Anybody know?"
>
>
> Tom
> WBCCI 5303
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 21:16:15 -0400
From: Chris Elliott <celliott@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Nitrogen in tires
I stand corrected ! Thanks and sorry to spread misinformation ! I love this list
, I`ve learned about alot more than trailers here .
Chris 63 flying cloud
John Sellers wrote:
> dDry air consists of 79% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and traces of other gases
> like carbon dioxide, argon, etc.
>
> Now, the physical [as opposed to chemical] properties of a pure gas
> depend on the number of atoms in the molecules (one, two, or more) and
> the molecular weight. Nitrogen, N2, is a diatomic gas having a
> molecular weight of 28 and oxygen, O2, is a diatomic gas having a
> molecular weight of 32.
>
> So there's very little difference between the physical properties of
> nitrogen and oxygen, and practically no measureable difference between
> the physical properties of dry air and dry nitrogen, since air is 79%
> nitrogen to begin with.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 23:08:36 -0400
From: "Bobby Gill" <gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Nitrogen in tires
Thanks
John
Bobby
----- Original Message -----
From: John Sellers<mailto:sellersj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com<mailto:valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 2:20 PM
Subject: [VAL] Re: Nitrogen in tires
Dr. J,
I'm 100% with you on this one. One of the local tire dealers is
extensively advertising nitrogen inflation on TV and radio. As an
engineer who is very conversant with the physics of gases it seems to me
that the claimed advantages are greatly [pardon me] _overinflated_.
At the risk of being called pedantic, let me briefly review physics:
Dry air consists of 79% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and traces of other gases
like carbon dioxide, argon, etc.
Now, the physical [as opposed to chemical] properties of a pure gas
depend on the number of atoms in the molecules (one, two, or more) and
the molecular weight. Nitrogen, N2, is a diatomic gas having a
molecular weight of 28 and oxygen, O2, is a diatomic gas having a
molecular weight of 32.
So there's very little difference between the physical properties of
nitrogen and oxygen, and practically no measureable difference between
the physical properties of dry air and dry nitrogen, since air is 79%
nitrogen to begin with.
Nitrogen doesn't expand and contract with temperature? Not true.
Identical to air in that respect.
Tires run cooler with nitrogen inflation? Oh? Why? The physical
properties of the filling gas are the same in either case and everything
else is the same. You might get your tires to run a little cooler if
you filled them with helium, a monatomic gas having a very high thermal
conductivity. (But you couldn't keep them full very long--helium can
leak through almost anything!)
_Chemically_, nitrogen is less active than oxygen--not really an inert
gas but closer to it than oxygen. But tires fail from tread wear and
sidewall deterioration from sunlight (and running underinflated), not by
oxidation from the inside out. So where's the advantage?
I suppose the advantage of nitrogen inflation--if there is any--is that
nitrogen from a high pressure bottle is truly dry, while air from your
air compressor is saturated with water vapor. As Dr. J. points out,
this affects the pressure versus temperature curve down to the freezing
point, at which point the water freezes out and no longer affects the
pressure. You can secure the benefit of dryness with an air dryer in
the air line if you want to.
But we live in a world where people make money selling designer-label
bottled water, gold-plated speaker wires, and any number of other things
costing significant money in return for illusory advantages. If people
want to pay extra for nitrogen inflation, it's OK with me.
But I think I'll stick with plain old air.
Best,
John Sellers
WBCCI/VAC #1587
1960 Pacer
Dayton, Ohio
> Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 22:05:51 -0500
> From: "Dr. Gerald Johnson"
<geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com<mailto:geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>>
> Subject: [VAL] Nitrogen in tires
>
> I guess I don't see the benefit of Nitrogen in trailer tires. They are
going
> to die of old age from sun cracking the sidewalls, not from the inside
> long before there's significant tread wear for most of us. Only those on
> the road most of the year will wear their tires out.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html<http://www.tompatter
son.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 23:57:26 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Nitrogen in tires
I think one of the *biggest* things with nitrogen and temperature is this:
it will not support fire.
That is another major reason it's used on high-speed, high-altitude
aircraft. Anything to help prevent fires.
Tom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby Gill" <gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Nitrogen in tires
> Thanks
> John
>
> Bobby
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Sellers<mailto:sellersj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com<mailto:valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 2:20 PM
> Subject: [VAL] Re: Nitrogen in tires
>
>
> Dr. J,
>
> I'm 100% with you on this one. One of the local tire dealers is
> extensively advertising nitrogen inflation on TV and radio. As an
> engineer who is very conversant with the physics of gases it seems to me
> that the claimed advantages are greatly [pardon me] _overinflated_.
>
> At the risk of being called pedantic, let me briefly review physics:
>
> Dry air consists of 79% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and traces of other gases
> like carbon dioxide, argon, etc.
>
> Now, the physical [as opposed to chemical] properties of a pure gas
> depend on the number of atoms in the molecules (one, two, or more) and
> the molecular weight. Nitrogen, N2, is a diatomic gas having a
> molecular weight of 28 and oxygen, O2, is a diatomic gas having a
> molecular weight of 32.
>
> So there's very little difference between the physical properties of
> nitrogen and oxygen, and practically no measureable difference between
> the physical properties of dry air and dry nitrogen, since air is 79%
> nitrogen to begin with.
>
> Nitrogen doesn't expand and contract with temperature? Not true.
> Identical to air in that respect.
>
> Tires run cooler with nitrogen inflation? Oh? Why? The physical
> properties of the filling gas are the same in either case and everything
> else is the same. You might get your tires to run a little cooler if
> you filled them with helium, a monatomic gas having a very high thermal
> conductivity. (But you couldn't keep them full very long--helium can
> leak through almost anything!)
>
> _Chemically_, nitrogen is less active than oxygen--not really an inert
> gas but closer to it than oxygen. But tires fail from tread wear and
> sidewall deterioration from sunlight (and running underinflated), not by
> oxidation from the inside out. So where's the advantage?
>
> I suppose the advantage of nitrogen inflation--if there is any--is that
> nitrogen from a high pressure bottle is truly dry, while air from your
> air compressor is saturated with water vapor. As Dr. J. points out,
> this affects the pressure versus temperature curve down to the freezing
> point, at which point the water freezes out and no longer affects the
> pressure. You can secure the benefit of dryness with an air dryer in
> the air line if you want to.
>
> But we live in a world where people make money selling designer-label
> bottled water, gold-plated speaker wires, and any number of other things
> costing significant money in return for illusory advantages. If people
> want to pay extra for nitrogen inflation, it's OK with me.
>
> But I think I'll stick with plain old air.
>
> Best,
> John Sellers
> WBCCI/VAC #1587
> 1960 Pacer
> Dayton, Ohio
>
> > Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 22:05:51 -0500
> > From: "Dr. Gerald Johnson"
> <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com<mailto:geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>>
> > Subject: [VAL] Nitrogen in tires
> >
>
> > I guess I don't see the benefit of Nitrogen in trailer tires. They are
> going
> > to die of old age from sun cracking the sidewalls, not from the inside
> > long before there's significant tread wear for most of us. Only those
on
> > the road most of the year will wear their tires out.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>
http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html<http://www.tompatter
> son.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 00:28:00 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] DirecTV question needs and answe, please
The TV is beeping every 7 minutes he said. I'll pass on what you said.
Thanks,
Tom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Hightower" <rhightower@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] DirecTV question needs and answe, please
> Is it the receiver, or the TV? On mine, it was because I hadn't set the
time
> on the TV.
>
> Bob Hightower
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
> To: "VAList" <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 2:02 PM
> Subject: [VAL] DirecTV question needs and answe, please
>
>
> > Does anyone know the answer to this question?
> >
> > I got this from another list I'm on.
> >
> >
> > "I have a Motorola DirecTV reciever that is beeping; a single tone about
> > every 7 minutes. This happened once before about five years ago, and I
> > can't for the life of me remember how to reset whatever it is that's
> > causing the beep. Anybody know?"
> >
> >
> > Tom
> > WBCCI 5303
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> > http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
End of VAL Digest V1 #334
*************************
-----------------------------------------------------------------
When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary Digest text
To unsubscribe or change to an e-mail format, please go to
http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
|