The Vintage Airstream E-mail ListDigest Archive Files
VAL Digest V1 #309
VAL Digest Thursday, July 15 2004 Volume 01 : Number 309
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Topics in Today's Digest:
Re: [VAL] Note on Beatrice
Re: [VAL] Note on Beatrice
[VAL] Steps
Re: [VAL] Electric Jack
Re: [VAL] Re: Propane tanks
Re: [VAL] Steps
Re: [VAL] Electric Jack
RE: [VAL] Electric Jack
FW: [VAL] Electric Jack
Re: [VAL] Electric Jack
Re: [VAL] Note on Beatrice
Re: [VAL] Beverly Beach Camptown RV Park
[VAL] missing messages
[VAL] any interest discussing off-topic subject re:cellphones and laptops on the road?
Re: [VAL] Electric Jack
RE: [VAL] Electric Jack
Re: [VAL] any interest discussing off-topic subject re:cellphones and laptops on the road?
[VAL] any interest discussing off-topic subject re:cellphones and laptops on the road?
[VAL] Internet on the road
Re: [VAL] Internet on the road
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 01:15:30 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Note on Beatrice
I recently found out that Beatrice Foods was also a one-time owner of
Samsonite luggage at around the same time they *expanded* into the RV market
with their purchase of Airstream.
Airstream was sold at a loss as was Samsonite. Beatrice Foods still
maintains a *presence* in a dairy outfit in Holland, MI from my last
research that I'm aware of. Then again, maybe they got out totally at least
in the USA. Beatrice Foods does now have a presence in -- China.
If the global economy has done any good at all it would have been for
Beatrice Foods to go - to China peddling their butter.
Beatrice Foods began in Nebraska in a small dairy operation as a way for
local farmers to sell their products which were made into butter. Beatrice
is also pronounced as Be Atrice for those that might care to know such
trivia. ;)
I guess I can say that when Airstream *needed* to be bought that Beatrice
Foods had some money to do that with -- and when it needed to be sold Thor
had some money to do that also. At least Beatrice Foods held it together
until Thor came through with their purchase of the company.
IF Airstream was a stand alone company NOT connected to the likes of other
Thor companies in the RV industry I think that would be better for Airstream
owners -- and most likely shareholders as well. I think Airstream could
stand on it's own now for the foreseeable future IF the product quality
improves.
A while back I ordered a window from the Airstream factory through a dealer
and let me tell you, it was the biggest piece of garbage I've ever seen -- I
was VERY disappointed that THIS was "craftsmanship" at it's finest, far from
it. I sent it back and got a refund.
Older is a lot better as far as Airstream trailers go for a big part of the
equation. I couldn't understand why people used to say that the older
trailers were built better than the "newer" ones - the pre-70's ones. Then
I found out lots of things WERE better on the older trailers than today's
newer ones. How they ever got so HEAVY as they are today is still a mystery
to me unless they are using woods and substitutes that weigh a ton.
Tom
From: "ThreePeaksRanch" <threepeaksranch@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Note on Beatrice
> A friend of mine was an auditor for the foods giant in the mid-70's and
said quite candidly that, apart from other things....Beatrice benefited from
getting out from under a subsidiary it shouldn't have been in in the first
place....
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 07:53:06 -0600
From: "Kenneth E. Johansen" <johansen@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Note on Beatrice
The reason they got heavier is because the consumer demanded more
"toys". In comparing my 58 and my 75 - the quality is about the same. I
think it comes down to preference. I happen to like the wood in the 58,
but it didn't hold up as well as the laminate used in the 75
Ken
At 01:15 AM 7/14/04 -0400, you wrote:
>I recently found out that Beatrice Foods was also a one-time owner of
>Samsonite luggage at around the same time they *expanded* into the RV market
>with their purchase of Airstream.
>
>Airstream was sold at a loss as was Samsonite. Beatrice Foods still
>maintains a *presence* in a dairy outfit in Holland, MI from my last
>research that I'm aware of. Then again, maybe they got out totally at least
>in the USA. Beatrice Foods does now have a presence in -- China.
>
>If the global economy has done any good at all it would have been for
>Beatrice Foods to go - to China peddling their butter.
>
>Beatrice Foods began in Nebraska in a small dairy operation as a way for
>local farmers to sell their products which were made into butter. Beatrice
>is also pronounced as Be Atrice for those that might care to know such
>trivia. ;)
>
>I guess I can say that when Airstream *needed* to be bought that Beatrice
>Foods had some money to do that with -- and when it needed to be sold Thor
>had some money to do that also. At least Beatrice Foods held it together
>until Thor came through with their purchase of the company.
>
>IF Airstream was a stand alone company NOT connected to the likes of other
>Thor companies in the RV industry I think that would be better for Airstream
>owners -- and most likely shareholders as well. I think Airstream could
>stand on it's own now for the foreseeable future IF the product quality
>improves.
>
>A while back I ordered a window from the Airstream factory through a dealer
>and let me tell you, it was the biggest piece of garbage I've ever seen -- I
>was VERY disappointed that THIS was "craftsmanship" at it's finest, far from
>it. I sent it back and got a refund.
>
>Older is a lot better as far as Airstream trailers go for a big part of the
>equation. I couldn't understand why people used to say that the older
>trailers were built better than the "newer" ones - the pre-70's ones. Then
>I found out lots of things WERE better on the older trailers than today's
>newer ones. How they ever got so HEAVY as they are today is still a mystery
>to me unless they are using woods and substitutes that weigh a ton.
>
>Tom
>
>
>From: "ThreePeaksRanch" <threepeaksranch@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
>Subject: [VAL] Note on Beatrice
>
>
> > A friend of mine was an auditor for the foods giant in the mid-70's and
>said quite candidly that, apart from other things....Beatrice benefited from
>getting out from under a subsidiary it shouldn't have been in in the first
>place....
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 10:01:15 -0500
From: "Dan Childress" <daniel@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Steps
I am looking for new steps for my 69 Caravel. My wife needs the addition of
the two step entry. Does anyone know where I might find one??
Dan
14148
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 10:58:23 -0500
From: "Chaplain Kent" <Chaplainkent@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Electric Jack
Peter,
Thanks for your reply to my request about the jack. I can get it on the
trailer. The wiring will be my problem. Where will I find the wires from the
charge circuit? Also there is only one wire coming out of the jack but two
wires off of the Bargman switch.
Thanks again,
Kent
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:11:23 -0400
From: gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Propane tanks
Ferrell Gas company. No I didn't shop around as I had no intention of buying
new tanks. Just a new valve. Asked about the price out of curiosity.
Bobby
----- Original Message -----
Wrom: KPNKMBIPBARHDMNNSKVFVWRKJVZCMHVIBGDADRZFSQH
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com<mailto:valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 11:52 AM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Propane tanks
>I may be incorrect but I don't believe I spent anywhere near the cost you
>quoted of $185.00 for each tank. I bought 2 tanks of the 40# variety in
>polished aluminum and possibly I paid that much or less for both of them
- --
>delivered to my home.
>
>Where are you getting these prices from, Bobby?
>
>Tom
>WBCCI 5303
>
>
>Wrom: YUCDDJBLVLMHAALPTCXLYRWTQTIPWIGYOKSTTZRCLBDXRQBGJSNBOH
>Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: Propane tanks
>
>
> > I recently had to replace a valve on one of my aluminum tanks.
> > Had it done by a local LP Gas company. Cost $17.00 for the new OPD
>installed.
> > Tank inspection, free. Filled tank $12.00. Not a bad price.
> > I think it's much cheaper than if I bought a new aluminum tank. Cost
>$185.00
> >
airstreamdreams.com (of which I am NOT associated) has 20, 30 & 40 lb
Worthington Cylinder aluminum tanks for a lot less...
Dave
_________________________________________________________________
Dave & Ann Lowrey - dave_lowrey@xxxxxxxxxx.com<mailto:dave_lowrey@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
WBCCI: 5074
1977 31' Sovereign International (center bath)
Cincinnati, Ohio
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 11:50:36 -0500
From: Jim Clark <jec1938@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Steps
Dan:
Our current Airstream has the step, but with the previous one I had
Woodland Travel ( Grand Rapids MI dealer) put one from an old trailer they
had in the lot... I don't know if the parts are available from Airstream
or not... I would expect that they are, but the bolts are kind of special
and you should order the whole works from Airstream if you get into that
mode....
After buying the second step, my wife decided she liked the step we had
from Camping World better... We use it with the current trailer as well...
Good luck
Jim
At 10:01 AM 7/14/2004, you wrote:
>I am looking for new steps for my 69 Caravel. My wife needs the addition of
>the two step entry. Does anyone know where I might find one??
>Dan
>14148
>
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>
>To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 11:54:23 -0500
From: Jim Clark <jec1938@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Electric Jack
If your jack is like mine, you just need to get the single wire from the
jack to the ungrounded side of the trailer battery... An inline fuse could
be added... The switch on the jack takes care of how the jack operates..The
ground is supplied by the frame of the trailer..... In our previous
trailer, the jack was probably added and the wire was not in the trailer
wiring at all... it was just run up into the battery compartment and tied
to the ungrounded side of the battery as a separate connection....
Jim
At 10:58 AM 7/14/2004, you wrote:
>Peter,
>Thanks for your reply to my request about the jack. I can get it on the
>trailer. The wiring will be my problem. Where will I find the wires from the
>charge circuit? Also there is only one wire coming out of the jack but two
>wires off of the Bargman switch.
>Thanks again,
>Kent
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:54:55 -0400
From: "Peter Ryner" <pryner@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Electric Jack
Kent,
Do you have a emergency disconnect on the trailer? If so, one side is
always hot either from the car or the trailer battery. When the pin is
pulled the circuit is completed and power is sent to your brakes. You can
get power from the hot side of that switch and connect it to your jack. Use
an electric probe grounded on the trailer and test each wire. When you get
12V you have the hot wire. If you don't have a disconnect switch you really
want to install one. If you check your vehicle wiring, there is a charge
wire in the 9 pin connector. You can tap into the power on the traile side
of the 9 pin connector.
The jack is set up to use its body as the ground so it only needs a hot
lead.
I'm not familiar with the bargam switch. My jack had an internal switch so
it was already connected. Are your switch wires connected? If you can give
me a little drawing of what you have I can probably figure it out or perhaps
someone else on the list is more familiar with your particular jack. Feel
free to contact me off list for more help or to send a picture.
pryner@xxxxxxxxxx.net
Pete
- -----Original Message-----
From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com
[mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com]On Behalf Of Chaplain Kent
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 11:58 AM
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Electric Jack
Peter,
Thanks for your reply to my request about the jack. I can get it on the
trailer. The wiring will be my problem. Where will I find the wires from the
charge circuit? Also there is only one wire coming out of the jack but two
wires off of the Bargman switch.
Thanks again,
Kent
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 12:55:46 -0400
From: "Peter Ryner" <pryner@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: FW: [VAL] Electric Jack
Kent,
Do you have a emergency disconnect on the trailer? If so, one side is
always hot either from the car or the trailer battery. When the pin is
pulled the circuit is completed and power is sent to your brakes. You can
get power from the hot side of that switch and connect it to your jack. Use
an electric probe grounded on the trailer and test each wire. When you get
12V you have the hot wire. If you don't have a disconnect switch you really
want to install one. If you check your vehicle wiring, there is a charge
wire in the 9 pin connector. You can tap into the power on the traile side
of the 9 pin connector.
The jack is set up to use its body as the ground so it only needs a hot
lead.
I'm not familiar with the bargam switch. My jack had an internal switch so
it was already connected. Are your switch wires connected? If you can give
me a little drawing of what you have I can probably figure it out or perhaps
someone else on the list is more familiar with your particular jack. Feel
free to contact me off list for more help or to send a picture.
pryner@xxxxxxxxxx.net
Pete
Peter,
Thanks for your reply to my request about the jack. I can get it on the
trailer. The wiring will be my problem. Where will I find the wires from the
charge circuit? Also there is only one wire coming out of the jack but two
wires off of the Bargman switch.
Thanks again,
Kent
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 10:52:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: IntlOverlander <tcwilliams2@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Electric Jack
I think this "Bargman switch" is actually the other trailer's breakaway switch,
and is not necessary for the jack's operation. Can you describe it? Does it have
a lanyard that pulls a pin out of the center?
- --- "Chaplain Kent" <Chaplainkent@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com> wrote:
Peter,
Thanks for your reply to my request about the jack. I can get it on the
trailer. The wiring will be my problem. Where will I find the wires from the
charge circuit? Also there is only one wire coming out of the jack but two
wires off of the Bargman switch.
Thanks again,
Kent
_____________________________________________________________
Visit http://www.RRmail.com today! Get your free @xxxxxxxxxx.com e-mail account.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:56:42 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Note on Beatrice
A funny thought crossed my mind about the extra weight. I was just
wondering if it could have been caused by all that Samsonite luggage used by
vacationers. ;)
Tom
From: "Kenneth E. Johansen" <johansen@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> The reason they got heavier is because the consumer demanded more
> "toys". In comparing my 58 and my 75 - the quality is about the same. I
> think it comes down to preference. I happen to like the wood in the 58,
> but it didn't hold up as well as the laminate used in the 75
>
> Ken
> At 01:15 AM 7/14/04 -0400, you wrote:
> >I recently found out that Beatrice Foods was also a one-time owner of
> >Samsonite luggage at around the same time they *expanded* into the RV
market
> >with their purchase of Airstream.
> >
> >Airstream was sold at a loss as was Samsonite. Beatrice Foods still
> >maintains a *presence* in a dairy outfit in Holland, MI from my last
> >research that I'm aware of. Then again, maybe they got out totally at
least
> >in the USA. Beatrice Foods does now have a presence in -- China.
> >
> >If the global economy has done any good at all it would have been for
> >Beatrice Foods to go - to China peddling their butter.
> >
> >Beatrice Foods began in Nebraska in a small dairy operation as a way for
> >local farmers to sell their products which were made into butter.
Beatrice
> >is also pronounced as Be Atrice for those that might care to know such
> >trivia. ;)
> >
> >I guess I can say that when Airstream *needed* to be bought that Beatrice
> >Foods had some money to do that with -- and when it needed to be sold
Thor
> >had some money to do that also. At least Beatrice Foods held it together
> >until Thor came through with their purchase of the company.
> >
> >IF Airstream was a stand alone company NOT connected to the likes of
other
> >Thor companies in the RV industry I think that would be better for
Airstream
> >owners -- and most likely shareholders as well. I think Airstream could
> >stand on it's own now for the foreseeable future IF the product quality
> >improves.
> >
> >A while back I ordered a window from the Airstream factory through a
dealer
> >and let me tell you, it was the biggest piece of garbage I've ever
seen -- I
> >was VERY disappointed that THIS was "craftsmanship" at it's finest, far
from
> >it. I sent it back and got a refund.
> >
> >Older is a lot better as far as Airstream trailers go for a big part of
the
> >equation. I couldn't understand why people used to say that the older
> >trailers were built better than the "newer" ones - the pre-70's ones.
Then
> >I found out lots of things WERE better on the older trailers than today's
> >newer ones. How they ever got so HEAVY as they are today is still a
mystery
> >to me unless they are using woods and substitutes that weigh a ton.
> >
> >Tom
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:34:49 -0500
From: "Gary Ricketts" <gricketts@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Beverly Beach Camptown RV Park
Bobby,
I agree with you on the campground and reservations. I just wish I
knew you were there. I was one of the race fans and stayed at Picknickers
Campground probably a half mile from you. Maybe we will get close again
sometime and meet up. I left there and went across Florida and up the beach
on 98. The Top Sail campground is probably the nicest and prettiest we have
visited. You will enjoy.
Gary
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby Gill" <gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Beverly Beach Camptown RV Park
> Just returned from our July 4th trip. We stayed at Beverly Beach which
is
> just North of Flagler Beach on A1A.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:28:19 -0500
From: "Tom Patterson" <tommyjoe@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] missing messages
Any AOL subscriber who missed their messages for the past several days may
view them on the following location on my website:
http://www.tompatterson.com/Digests/Digestlist.html.
There was a problem where mail being sent from any site hosted by my provider
was not getting through to AOL subscribers. I think that the problem is now
resolved, but AOL subscribers may be missing mail for that period.
- -Tom
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:24:10 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] any interest discussing off-topic subject re:cellphones and laptops on the road?
Would there be any problem discussing a somewhat off topic subject for those
Airstreamers among us who travel and take our cell phones and laptops with us
so we can remain in touch?
I have some interesting things to share I found out today that might be of
interest to others who travel as I do with my laptop, cell phone and GPS for
navigation.
Don't want to make anyone mad, just want to share with the group rather than
on an individual basis -- don't have time to send out individual emails, etc.
Tom? Any problem with a "traveling with our Airstream trailers and keeping in
touch" subject matter?
Tom Meeker
WBCCI 5303
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:37:21 -0500
From: "Chaplain Kent" <Chaplainkent@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Electric Jack
Yes, the "Bargman" switch does have a lanyard which pulls a pin out of the
center. The jack has its own switch.
Kent
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:07:52 -0400
From: "Peter Ryner" <pryner@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Electric Jack
No name left but good call on the emergency breakaway switch! That is
completely different from the jack. Find the hot side and wire it to the
jack and you should be in business.
Good luck
Pete
Yes, the "Bargman" switch does have a lanyard which pulls a pin out of the
center. The jack has its own switch.
Kent
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:29:16 -0400
From: <pcfranke@xxxxxxxxxx.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] any interest discussing off-topic subject re:cellphones and laptops on the road?
7/14/2004 3:24:10 PM, "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com> wrote:
>Any problem with a "traveling with our Airstream trailers and keeping in
>touch" subject matter?
I for one would be very interested in this thread.
-- Lew #4239
'72 Safari
Getting unstuck from Ohio
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 21:46:59 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] any interest discussing off-topic subject re:cellphones and laptops on the road?
How do you plan to stay in touch on the road when traveling? I know some
people really *want* to get lost and be by themselves but most of us still
want to touch base at least now and then usually doing so by phone. We used
to use our telephone company calling card (are they still around?) at the
pay phone in a campground to see how everything was back at home.
But today we can even (usually) use the campground office, if not the
campsite itself, to get our electronic mail via telephone lines that have
been set up by the campground owners. I used to look at those telephone
hookups at the camp sites and wonder why anyone who is camping would even
*want* to stay in touch. I guess I envisioned a multi-tens-of-thousands
dollar rig with an actual telephone sitting on a kitchen counter back then.
This was prior to our own involvement with cell phones and their use on the
road for emergency calls if not for checking in with our home base or
getting directions for our travels.
Until recently all the talk of using a laptop and a phone on the road to
keep in touch was foreign to me. But, I have now gotten my first good
laptop to take with us in our travels. What I had a hard time visualizing
was *how* in the world I would be able to hook up my cell phone so that I
could check Email and surf the Net. I bought a 'thing' that would plug into
my particular cell phone which had the regular modular plug on the other end
and I *thought* this was how it was done -- insert modular plug into
computer, dial phone number to my ISP service and Voila! I'd be online.
Wrong!
What do you use -- laptop, PDA, etc -- to stay in touch with a cell phone?
A large number of us has at least one cell phone in the family today from
what I read.
What do you do and how do you do it?
Tom
WBCCI 5303
"Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com> wrote:
> >Any problem with a "traveling with our Airstream trailers and keeping in
> >touch" subject matter?
> I for one would be very interested in this thread.
> -- Lew #4239
> '72 Safari
> Getting unstuck from Ohio
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 21:32:47 -0500
From: "Tom Patterson" <tommyjoe@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Internet on the road
I use a laptop on the road. I have the Verizon America choice plan, which
means no long distance or roaming charges while on their network, and
Verizon does have pretty good coverage around the country. Certainly, in
the areas that I generally travel.
Verizon offers Express Network. It is offered as a separate item, but they
will set it up to use your regular minutes when in use. As I have unlimited
useage after 9:00 at night, and on weekends, I mostly use it at these times,
to avoid running up too many charge minutes.
It works well.
- -Tom
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 22:44:03 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Internet on the road
How much does that service cost you? Are you more or less just using your
cell phone to connect your laptop to the Net using those nights and weekend
minutes?
Any special software or cables needed?
Tom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Patterson" <tommyjoe@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 10:32 PM
Subject: [VAL] Internet on the road
> I use a laptop on the road. I have the Verizon America choice plan, which
> means no long distance or roaming charges while on their network, and
> Verizon does have pretty good coverage around the country. Certainly, in
> the areas that I generally travel.
>
> Verizon offers Express Network. It is offered as a separate item, but
they
> will set it up to use your regular minutes when in use. As I have
unlimited
> useage after 9:00 at night, and on weekends, I mostly use it at these
times,
> to avoid running up too many charge minutes.
>
> It works well.
>
> -Tom
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
End of VAL Digest V1 #309
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