VAL Digest V1 #305

VAL Digest            Sunday, July 11 2004            Volume 01 : Number 305




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Topics in Today's Digest:

RE: [VAL] 2004 International Rally photos
[VAL] Beatrice foods?
RE: [VAL] 2004 International Rally photos
Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best... ??
Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best... ??
RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best... ??
Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best... ??
RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
[VAL] More on Beatrice and Thor
[VAL] Lansing 2004
Re: [VAL] Lansing 2004
Re: [VAL] More on Beatrice and Thor
[VAL] Beatrice Foods & Airstream
[VAL] Beatrice Foods - recall issued for Airstream
[VAL] How Airstreams have changed over the years
[VAL] Airstream recall for 19810201
[VAL] Beatrice Foods years
Re: [VAL] Beatrice Foods years
[VAL] recent article about Airstream Co today

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 02:01:07 -0400
From: "Tom \(et/al\)" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] 2004 International Rally photos

Super photos, Dave.  I certainly did enjoy viewing them all.

Tom
WBCCI 5303


On Behalf Of Dave Lowrey
Subject: [VAL] 2004 International Rally photos

Greetings!

I have placed my photos from the 2004 WBCCI International Rally on-line. 
They can be viewed at: http://www.pfredd.com/gallery/international04

Note that these are low resolution versions for viewing on the web. If you 
would like the high resolution, full size version, drop me an e-mail.

Enjoy!

Dave


_________________________________________________________________
Dave & Ann Lowrey - dave_lowrey@xxxxxxxxxx.com

WBCCI: 5074

1977 31' Sovereign International (center bath)
Cincinnati, Ohio 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 07:14:50 -0500
From: Chris Koehn <timberguides@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Beatrice foods?

What years did Beatrice food own Airstream?

Chris K
1979 Int'l
#8638

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 05:17:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Birdsong <tbirddog7@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] 2004 International Rally photos

Thanks! The slide show was really great.Tom B.

		
- ---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 09:13:35 -0500
From: "Chaplain Kent" <Chaplainkent@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best... ??

Please excuse my ignorance but what were the Beatrice Food years?
Chaplain Kent

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 12:07:37 -0500
From: "Tom Patterson" <tommyjoe@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best... ??

Beatrice Foods purchased Airstream in December 1969 and sold it to Thor in
1979.

During this period many manufacturers of trailer and motorhomes went out of
business due to a huge slump in demand for recreational vehicles, caused in
no little way by the the Arab oil embargo in 1973-74, and successive
gasoline price increases.

"In 1973 O.P.E.C. raised oil prices 70%. The dominant Middle Eastern members
of O.P.E.C. used succeeding price increases as a political weapon aimed at
Western nations in retaliation for their support of Israel against its Arab
neighbors in the so-called Yom Kippur War of October 1973. Prices were
accordingly raised another 130% at the Tehran conference of December 1973,
and a temporary embargo was placed on the United States and the Netherlands
at the same time. Other prices increases followed in 1975, 1977, 1979, and
1980, which ultimately raised the price of a barrel of crude oil from United
States $3.00 in 1973 to $30.00 in 1980."(1.)

Airstream owners might do well to turn some thoughts of gratitude towards
Beatrice, for having the deep pockets that enabled the brand to survive
during these turbulent years.  I hear a lot of complaints about Beatrice,
but in fairness, they continued to produce the brand, and in fact, expanded
the facilities.

- -Tom

 (1.) http://www.freeessays.cc/db/15/euz223.shtml


- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chaplain Kent" <Chaplainkent@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best... ??


> Please excuse my ignorance but what were the Beatrice Food years?
> Chaplain Kent

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 13:18:24 -0500
From: "David R. Warner, Jr" <david@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...

At 02:15 PM 7/9/2004, you wrote:

>The Beatrice Foods years were the worst for our Airstreams - my opinion,
>yours may vary.
>
>Tom


What were the Beatrice Food Years?"

_DAVID


===========================================================

David R. Warner, Jr.
19507 485th Lane
McGregor, Minnesota 55760
Phone 218-426-3900
Cell 218-838-4972
David@xxxxxxxxxx.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 11:56:23 -0700
From: William Kerfoot <wkerfoot@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best... ??

Lets thank rather than swear at Beatrice Foods, since without them there 
might not be new Airstreams today.  Also, don't blame the 70's color 
scheme and shag carpets on them, it was a sign of the times.  How many 
60's and 70's home kitchens had avocado green appliances and how many 
home living rooms had shag carpets?

Bill Kerfoot
WBCCI/VAC #5223
1979 23' Safari
1973 Dodge W200 PowerWagon
1977 Lincoln Continental
Orange, CA

Tom Patterson wrote:

>Beatrice Foods purchased Airstream in December 1969 and sold it to Thor in 1979.
>
>During this period many manufacturers of trailer and motorhomes went out of 
>business due to a huge slump in demand for recreational vehicles, caused in no 
>little way by the the Arab oil embargo in 1973-74, and successive gasoline price increases.
>
>Airstream owners might do well to turn some thoughts of gratitude towards Beatrice, 
>for having the deep pockets that enabled the brand to survive during these turbulent years.  
>I hear a lot of complaints about Beatrice, but in fairness, they continued to produce the 
>brand, and in fact, expandedthe facilities.
>
>-Tom

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 15:47:36 EDT
From: NuDog@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best... ??

Bill - you need a correction to your posting
"how many kitchens still have avocado green appliances"
 and still have a burnt orange carpet somewhere in the house 
and bet you can still find barrel chairs and wagon wheel lamps in quite a few 
family rooms/basements
Jim

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 14:26:54 -0600
From: johansen@xxxxxxxxxx.net
Subject: RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...

Many of the things that Beatrice gets blamed for were in motion prior to their
takeover.  A lot of American products in the 70's were not what they are today.

1969 is a transition year - there are parts unique to that year - again that
trailer was designed prior to Beatrice taking over.

I dare say the majority of available vintage trailers available today are 70's
models - a tribute how they were made - again, each year has its strengths and
weaknessess - frame problems came about because we were demanding more and more
goodies on the trailer.

I think the pipe frame was one of the worst designs ever - yet they are still
around

Ken


Quoting "Tom (et/al)" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>:

> What was good about Beatrice Foods owning Airstream?  Beatrice Foods
> ownership cheapened the travel trailers which caused lots of problems.  I'd
> be interested to know what Beatrice Foods *did* for the now-owners of older
> Airstreams which were produced under their leadership/ownership/guidance.
>
> Who made out good besides the buyers of Airstream back when Beatrice Foods
> *was* the buyer?  Did Beatrice Foods make Airstream better or worse?  I
> think Thor Industries has made Airstream *better* for sure -- but the
> Beatrice Foods years is where I run into a brick wall as I don't feel they
> made a good product better or as good as it was previously.
>
> Where am I wrong?
>
> Tom
> WBCCI 5303
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com [mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
> On Behalf Of Kenneth E. Johansen
> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 6:26 PM
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
>
> I don't agree - each year has strong points and each have weaknesses.
>
> Ken J
> 58 Overlander
> 75 Tradewind
>
> At 05:53 PM 07/09/04 -0400, you wrote:
> >I agree, Tom.
> >
> >Jim Greene' 68 Tradewind
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Tom (et/al)" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
> >To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> >Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 3:15 PM
> >Subject: RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
> >
> >
> > > The Beatrice Foods years were the worst for our Airstreams - my opinion,
> > > yours may vary.
> > >
> > > Tom
> >
> >-----------------------------------------------------------------
> >When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> >
> >To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> >http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
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>
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>
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>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 17:38:27 -0500
From: "Tom Patterson" <tommyjoe@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] More on Beatrice and Thor

I did a search on Beatrice financial statements to see if I could find
anything about their results from Airstream operations.  I felt that they had
probably taken a pretty good bath during the time of their ownership, with all
the gasoline difficulties during that period of time.  I found nothing on
financial statements, although I still think they suffered greatly from a
financial standpoint from their Airstream ownership.

What I did find was a little about the Thor acquisition and about Thor today.
Anyone interested in looking at this material can go to:
http://forbes.com/forbes/2004/0329/066_print.html.  I don't know about the
years 1969 through 1979, but it does look as though Airstream was a real
problem to Beatrice towards the end of their ownership.  Thus the "firesale"
unloading of the brand.

- -Tom

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 16:52:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: ThreePeaksRanch <threepeaksranch@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Lansing 2004

What a great sight to see all the newcomers and potential owners at International. 
I met a few really neat folks this year...saw a few from the past.....keep up the polishing!
A BIG hello to Bubbles the Turtle:)
Wendy
52, 53, 53, 58, 59, 60, 61, etc


VAL Digest <valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com> wrote:

VAL Digest Saturday, July 10 2004 Volume 01 : Number 304




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Topics in Today's Digest:

[VAL] Blue Paint
Re: [VAL] Blue Paint
Re: [VAL] Blue Paint
Re: [VAL] Blue Paint
Re: [VAL] More on highway help
[VAL] International Photo
RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
Re: [VAL] International Photo
Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best... ??
[VAL] 2004 International Rally photos
Re: [VAL] 2004 International Rally photos
Re: [VAL] 2004 International Rally photos
[VAL] Lansing 2004 My Reflections

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 07:54:57 EDT
From: FRYDMANS@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Blue Paint

Dear List:
I would like to repaint the blue stripe on my 1971 Overlander. Does anyone 
have a color name or correct number for the right color that was used.
Thank you
Steve Frydman
Mequon, WI

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 07:37:54 -0500
From: Dean 
Subject: Re: [VAL] Blue Paint

I just went to a local Farm & Home store and got a can of Ford Tractor 
Implement pain.
Wipe it down good with a rag dipped in a paint prep cleaner.
The trouble with blue or red is that it will sun fade very fast.

See you on the road
Dean & Kay
WBCCI 2486


On Jul 9, 2004, at 6:54 AM, FRYDMANS@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:

> Dear List:
> I would like to repaint the blue stripe on my 1971 Overlander. Does 
> anyone
> have a color name or correct number for the right color that was used.
> Thank you
> Steve Frydman
> Mequon, WI

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 09:19:58 EDT
From: JAuman2346@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Blue Paint

Steve Ruth in Helena Ohio recommends Krylon True Blue Gloss #1910. The Krylon 
True Blue I purchased had a number which was different. It is KDH5008. I have 
a 1988 trailer and the blue looks good on it. Steve is the operator/owner of 
P&S. They refinish Airstreams. JAuman

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 08:20:07 -0400
From: Daisy Welch 
Subject: Re: [VAL] Blue Paint

Hi Steve,

On my '73, the blue was actually a vinyl tape that was pop riveted on. I 
think you can still get the tape. I was really bored with the idea of 
drilling out all those rivets and then recaulking the trim band, so I 
did paint it. I used Rustoleum blue, which is proably Ford tractor blue.

Daisy

FRYDMANS@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
> Dear List:
> I would like to repaint the blue stripe on my 1971 Overlander. Does anyone 
> have a color name or correct number for the right color that was used.
> Thank you
> Steve Frydman
> Mequon, WI
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> 
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 12:38:27 -0400
From: "Jim Greene" 
Subject: Re: [VAL] More on highway help

Pete, have you tried www.healthy-homes.com? Click on tag sale and scroll
down to Airstream parts. They have 3 different size compartment doors. Maybe
one is the size you need.

Jim Greene
' 68 Tradewind

- - ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Ryner" 

To: "Airstream" 
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 10:10 AM
Subject: [VAL] More on highway help


> Well we made it to the Airstream plant with a little further damage to the
> rear of the trailer, but it is still intact. Looks like both rear sides
of
> the rear door opening drooped about an inch. The rivits on the rear band
> sheared and it drooped with the trailer body. AS didn't think they could
> look at the trailer before the end of the month and weren't open when we
> dropped it off, so I have no info from them yet. I am looking for a rear
> door from a '68 Ambassador. If anyone has a lead please contact me off
> list. I do have a door from a '67 but it has a different locking
mechanism.
> It has locks on both sides, mine had a lock on the bottom. I don't know
if
> they are the same size as the door was here in Fla. I have a couple of
> pictures at MSN if anyone is interested. The link is
> http://groups.msn.com/Rynerexploits/shoebox.msnw. Please let me know if
you
> have any problems looking at them. This is my first time tring the MSN
> groups.
> Pete
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
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- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 14:56:55 -0400
From: Dave Lowrey 
Subject: [VAL] International Photo

I am working on getting my photos from this year's International Rally online.

In the meantime, I thought folks might like seeing this. It's a panorama 
shot of the "Vintage" area, soon after we arrived....

http://www.pfredd.com/airstream/VAC-Panorama.jpg

Enjoy!

Dave

_________________________________________________________________
Dave & Ann Lowrey - dave_lowrey@xxxxxxxxxx.com

WBCCI: 5074

1977 31' Sovereign International (center bath)
Cincinnati, Ohio 

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 15:15:03 -0400
From: "Tom \(et/al\)" 
Subject: RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...

The Beatrice Foods years were the worst for our Airstreams - my opinion,
yours may vary.

Tom

- - -----Original Message-----
From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com [mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Davis
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 12:58 AM
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...

JAuman2346@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:

>"...He said the 74 and 75 trailers were the best..."
>
Isn't "best" is a relative term as far as Airstreams go:

* Pipe frame vs. ladder frame
* 13 panels vs. 5 panels
* Zolatone vs. vinyl
* Wood cabinets vs. tambour
* Polished Alclad vs. clearcoated mill finish
* Rear bath vs. center bath
* <>Short vs. long
* Stock vs. personalized interior
* Twins vs. double bed
* Sofa with folding table vs. dinette
* On and on...

Most of us have 'favorite' Airstream features in spite of what the 
factory says.

Rob Davis
'64 GlobeTrotter
Denver, CO

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- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 17:53:20 -0400
From: "Jim Greene" 
Subject: Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...

I agree, Tom.

Jim Greene' 68 Tradewind

- - ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom (et/al)" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 3:15 PM
Subject: RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...


> The Beatrice Foods years were the worst for our Airstreams - my opinion,
> yours may vary.
> 
> Tom

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 15:00:37 -0700
From: Joann Wheatley 
Subject: Re: [VAL] International Photo

What a great shot with the gorgeous clouds too!
Jo Ann
On 9, Jul 2004, at 11:56 AM, Dave Lowrey wrote:

> I am working on getting my photos from this year's International Rally 
> online.
> In the meantime, I thought folks might like seeing this. It's a 
> panorama shot of the "Vintage" area, soon after we arrived....
> http://www.pfredd.com/airstream/VAC-Panorama.jpg
> Enjoy!
> Dave

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 16:25:42 -0600
From: "Kenneth E. Johansen" 
Subject: Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...

I don't agree - each year has strong points and each have weaknesses.

Ken J
58 Overlander
75 Tradewind

At 05:53 PM 07/09/04 -0400, you wrote:
>I agree, Tom.
>
>Jim Greene' 68 Tradewind
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tom (et/al)" 
>To: 
>Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 3:15 PM
>Subject: RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
>
>
> > The Beatrice Foods years were the worst for our Airstreams - my opinion,
> > yours may vary.
> >
> > Tom
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 20:06:17 -0400
From: 

Subject: RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...

7/9/2004 12:15:03 PM, "Tom \(et/al\)" wrote:

>The Beatrice Foods years were the worst for our Airstreams - my opinion,
>yours may vary.
>

It does. That's what makes the world go round.

With all due respect, the Beatrice years have some real advantages:

(1) lighter

(2) indestructable interiors -- because the casework was made of aluminum extrusions and 
melamine laminate, while there is vinyl bonded over the interior skin. 
Amongst other things, this means minimum upkeep.

But also disadvantages:

(1) the color schemes were what today is considered maximally tacky -- avocado green or 
burnt orange, shag carpets, etc. Furthermore, at least for the first five years 
the laminate was entirely "walnut", which makes for a dark, perhaps gloomy, interior. On 
the other hand, you're not required to retain the original color scheme -- the 
fabrics (which in thirty years probably have been rotted by the sun), the tambour, and even 
much of the laminate are rather easy to change, with some really attractive 
choices being available. 

(2) no grey water tanks until 1974 (some people have installed their own, or you always can 
use a blue boy).

(3) the frames were a bit underdesigned, so that they sometime bent on the longer models when 
driven over rough roads with the waste tanks full. However, the fix for 
this is well known and easily performed by Jackson Center or your dealer.

It's a personal decision. Personally, I love the one I've got, and have no desire to replace 
it with any other -- newer or older. 

- -- Lew #4239

'72 Safari
Getting unstuck from Ohio

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 20:38:14 -0400
From: "Tom \(et/al\)" 
Subject: RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...

What was good about Beatrice Foods owning Airstream? Beatrice Foods
ownership cheapened the travel trailers which caused lots of problems. I'd
be interested to know what Beatrice Foods *did* for the now-owners of older
Airstreams which were produced under their leadership/ownership/guidance.

Who made out good besides the buyers of Airstream back when Beatrice Foods
*was* the buyer? Did Beatrice Foods make Airstream better or worse? I
think Thor Industries has made Airstream *better* for sure -- but the
Beatrice Foods years is where I run into a brick wall as I don't feel they
made a good product better or as good as it was previously.

Where am I wrong?

Tom
WBCCI 5303

- - -----Original Message-----
From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com [mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
On Behalf Of Kenneth E. Johansen
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 6:26 PM
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...

I don't agree - each year has strong points and each have weaknesses.

Ken J
58 Overlander
75 Tradewind

At 05:53 PM 07/09/04 -0400, you wrote:
>I agree, Tom.
>
>Jim Greene' 68 Tradewind
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tom (et/al)" 
>To: 
>Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 3:15 PM
>Subject: RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
>
>
> > The Beatrice Foods years were the worst for our Airstreams - my opinion,
> > yours may vary.
> >
> > Tom
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
>To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

- - -----------------------------------------------------------------
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- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 20:50:30 -0400
From: "Tom \(et/al\)" 
Subject: RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best... ??

The 1969 model year was a banner year for Airstream -- lots of those
improvements are *still* around today and that was years before Beatrice
Foods came on the scene. 

You said they were lighter. They used frames that weren't up to specs for
the load which is a big part of the reason for bent frames I am sure.

In 1969 Airstream bonded the vinyl wall coverings to the interior, that was
before Beatrice Foods owned the company.

Walnut interiors -- my 1969 Airstream has walnut veneer, real wood walnut
veneer. Yes, there is walnut laminate but that was used for the table tops
only that I recall at this moment.

Casework? Do you mean the framing of the beds, etc.? If not, what?

Frames -- you didn't have to travel with a full black water tank to get
bending frames. What you "need to do" was have a long distance from the
wheelbase to the rear of the trailer. Of course, a poorly loaded trailer
would exacerbate the problem -- but how many old time Airstreamers didn't
know "how" to load a trailer properly? I would bet that bent frames
occurred even with a properly loaded trailer even when people followed the
"instructions" to the n'th degree.

The pluses you mentioned - for the most part - came before Beatrice Foods
with and shortly after the 1969 model year change which was significant.

Tom
WBCCI 5303



On Behalf Of pcfranke@xxxxxxxxxx.netcom.com

7/9/2004 12:15:03 PM, "Tom \(et/al\)" wrote:

>The Beatrice Foods years were the worst for our Airstreams - my opinion,
>yours may vary.
>

It does. That's what makes the world go round.

With all due respect, the Beatrice years have some real advantages:

(1) lighter

(2) indestructable interiors -- because the casework was made of aluminum
extrusions and melamine laminate, while there is vinyl bonded over the
interior skin. 
Amongst other things, this means minimum upkeep.

But also disadvantages:

(1) the color schemes were what today is considered maximally tacky --
avocado green or burnt orange, shag carpets, etc. Furthermore, at least for
the first five years 
the laminate was entirely "walnut", which makes for a dark, perhaps gloomy,
interior. On the other hand, you're not required to retain the original
color scheme -- the 
fabrics (which in thirty years probably have been rotted by the sun), the
tambour, and even much of the laminate are rather easy to change, with some
really attractive 
choices being available. 

(2) no grey water tanks until 1974 (some people have installed their own, or
you always can use a blue boy).

(3) the frames were a bit underdesigned, so that they sometime bent on the
longer models when driven over rough roads with the waste tanks full.
However, the fix for 
this is well known and easily performed by Jackson Center or your dealer.

It's a personal decision. Personally, I love the one I've got, and have no
desire to replace it with any other -- newer or older. 

- -- Lew #4239

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:58:07 -0400
From: Dave Lowrey 
Subject: [VAL] 2004 International Rally photos

Greetings!

I have placed my photos from the 2004 WBCCI International Rally on-line. 
They can be viewed at: http://www.pfredd.com/gallery/international04

Note that these are low resolution versions for viewing on the web. If you 
would like the high resolution, full size version, drop me an e-mail.

Enjoy!

Dave


_________________________________________________________________
Dave & Ann Lowrey - dave_lowrey@xxxxxxxxxx.com

WBCCI: 5074

1977 31' Sovereign International (center bath)
Cincinnati, Ohio 

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 19:32:00 -0700
From: Joann Wheatley 
Subject: Re: [VAL] 2004 International Rally photos

Hi Dave:
Nice shots - it looks like a lot of fun. Thanks.
Jo Ann

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 19:36:39 -0700
From: William Kerfoot 
Subject: Re: [VAL] 2004 International Rally photos

Dave,

Thank you,

Bill Kerfoot
WBCCI/VAC #5223
1979 23' Safari
1973 Dodge W200 PowerWagon
1977 Lincoln Continental
Orange, CA

Dave Lowrey wrote:

> Greetings!
>
> I have placed my photos from the 2004 WBCCI International Rally 
> on-line. They can be viewed at: 
> http://www.pfredd.com/gallery/international04
>
> Note that these are low resolution versions for viewing on the web. If 
> you would like the high resolution, full size version, drop me an e-mail.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Dave
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Dave & Ann Lowrey - dave_lowrey@xxxxxxxxxx.com
>
> WBCCI: 5074
>
> 1977 31' Sovereign International (center bath)
> Cincinnati, Ohio
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 23:53:24 -0400
From: John Truitt 
Subject: [VAL] Lansing 2004 My Reflections

Thank you for those that have written. I'm forwarding my comments to 
those that you suggested. I will attempt to attach a pdf file of my 
reflections and comments to this email. If it does not come through 
and you are interested please email me directly and I will send them to 
you.

Thank you.
John

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pdf which had a name of WBCCI Response.pdf]

- ------------------------------

End of VAL Digest V1 #304
*************************


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 19:10:14 -0700
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Lansing 2004

Umm, Bubbles the Turtle? 52,53,53, 58....??????
what's that about Wendy?
Jo Ann, a Bubbles owner
On 10, Jul 2004, at 4:52 PM, ThreePeaksRanch wrote:

> What a great sight to see all the newcomers and potential owners at 
> International. I met a few really neat folks this year...saw a few 
> from the past.....keep up the polishing!
> A BIG hello to Bubbles the Turtle:)
> Wendy
> 52, 53, 53, 58, 59, 60, 61, etc
>
>
> VAL Digest <valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com> wrote:
>
> VAL Digest Saturday, July 10 2004 Volume 01 : Number 304
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary Digest text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to an e-mail format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
> Topics in Today's Digest:
>
> [VAL] Blue Paint
> Re: [VAL] Blue Paint
> Re: [VAL] Blue Paint
> Re: [VAL] Blue Paint
> Re: [VAL] More on highway help
> [VAL] International Photo
> RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
> Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
> Re: [VAL] International Photo
> Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
> RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
> RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
> RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best... ??
> [VAL] 2004 International Rally photos
> Re: [VAL] 2004 International Rally photos
> Re: [VAL] 2004 International Rally photos
> [VAL] Lansing 2004 My Reflections
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 07:54:57 EDT
> From: FRYDMANS@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: [VAL] Blue Paint
>
> Dear List:
> I would like to repaint the blue stripe on my 1971 Overlander. Does 
> anyone
> have a color name or correct number for the right color that was used.
> Thank you
> Steve Frydman
> Mequon, WI
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 07:37:54 -0500
> From: Dean
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Blue Paint
>
> I just went to a local Farm & Home store and got a can of Ford Tractor
> Implement pain.
> Wipe it down good with a rag dipped in a paint prep cleaner.
> The trouble with blue or red is that it will sun fade very fast.
>
> See you on the road
> Dean & Kay
> WBCCI 2486
>
>
> On Jul 9, 2004, at 6:54 AM, FRYDMANS@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
>
>> Dear List:
>> I would like to repaint the blue stripe on my 1971 Overlander. Does
>> anyone
>> have a color name or correct number for the right color that was used.
>> Thank you
>> Steve Frydman
>> Mequon, WI
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 09:19:58 EDT
> From: JAuman2346@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Blue Paint
>
> Steve Ruth in Helena Ohio recommends Krylon True Blue Gloss #1910. The 
> Krylon
> True Blue I purchased had a number which was different. It is KDH5008. 
> I have
> a 1988 trailer and the blue looks good on it. Steve is the 
> operator/owner of
> P&S. They refinish Airstreams. JAuman
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 08:20:07 -0400
> From: Daisy Welch
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Blue Paint
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> On my '73, the blue was actually a vinyl tape that was pop riveted on. 
> I
> think you can still get the tape. I was really bored with the idea of
> drilling out all those rivets and then recaulking the trim band, so I
> did paint it. I used Rustoleum blue, which is proably Ford tractor 
> blue.
>
> Daisy
>
> FRYDMANS@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
>> Dear List:
>> I would like to repaint the blue stripe on my 1971 Overlander. Does 
>> anyone
>> have a color name or correct number for the right color that was used.
>> Thank you
>> Steve Frydman
>> Mequon, WI
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original 
>> text
>>
>> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 12:38:27 -0400
> From: "Jim Greene"
> Subject: Re: [VAL] More on highway help
>
> Pete, have you tried www.healthy-homes.com? Click on tag sale and 
> scroll
> down to Airstream parts. They have 3 different size compartment doors. 
> Maybe
> one is the size you need.
>
> Jim Greene
> ' 68 Tradewind
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Ryner"
>
> To: "Airstream"
> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 10:10 AM
> Subject: [VAL] More on highway help
>
>
>> Well we made it to the Airstream plant with a little further damage 
>> to the
>> rear of the trailer, but it is still intact. Looks like both rear 
>> sides
> of
>> the rear door opening drooped about an inch. The rivits on the rear 
>> band
>> sheared and it drooped with the trailer body. AS didn't think they 
>> could
>> look at the trailer before the end of the month and weren't open when 
>> we
>> dropped it off, so I have no info from them yet. I am looking for a 
>> rear
>> door from a '68 Ambassador. If anyone has a lead please contact me off
>> list. I do have a door from a '67 but it has a different locking
> mechanism.
>> It has locks on both sides, mine had a lock on the bottom. I don't 
>> know
> if
>> they are the same size as the door was here in Fla. I have a couple of
>> pictures at MSN if anyone is interested. The link is
>> http://groups.msn.com/Rynerexploits/shoebox.msnw. Please let me know 
>> if
> you
>> have any problems looking at them. This is my first time tring the MSN
>> groups.
>> Pete
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original 
>> text
>>
>> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 14:56:55 -0400
> From: Dave Lowrey
> Subject: [VAL] International Photo
>
> I am working on getting my photos from this year's International Rally 
> online.
>
> In the meantime, I thought folks might like seeing this. It's a 
> panorama
> shot of the "Vintage" area, soon after we arrived....
>
> http://www.pfredd.com/airstream/VAC-Panorama.jpg
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Dave
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Dave & Ann Lowrey - dave_lowrey@xxxxxxxxxx.com
>
> WBCCI: 5074
>
> 1977 31' Sovereign International (center bath)
> Cincinnati, Ohio
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 15:15:03 -0400
> From: "Tom \(et/al\)"
> Subject: RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
>
> The Beatrice Foods years were the worst for our Airstreams - my 
> opinion,
> yours may vary.
>
> Tom
>
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com 
> [mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert Davis
> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 12:58 AM
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
>
> JAuman2346@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
>
>> "...He said the 74 and 75 trailers were the best..."
>>
> Isn't "best" is a relative term as far as Airstreams go:
>
> * Pipe frame vs. ladder frame
> * 13 panels vs. 5 panels
> * Zolatone vs. vinyl
> * Wood cabinets vs. tambour
> * Polished Alclad vs. clearcoated mill finish
> * Rear bath vs. center bath
> * <>Short vs. long
> * Stock vs. personalized interior
> * Twins vs. double bed
> * Sofa with folding table vs. dinette
> * On and on...
>
> Most of us have 'favorite' Airstream features in spite of what the
> factory says.
>
> Rob Davis
> '64 GlobeTrotter
> Denver, CO
>
> - -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 17:53:20 -0400
> From: "Jim Greene"
> Subject: Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
>
> I agree, Tom.
>
> Jim Greene' 68 Tradewind
>
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom (et/al)"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 3:15 PM
> Subject: RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
>
>
>> The Beatrice Foods years were the worst for our Airstreams - my 
>> opinion,
>> yours may vary.
>>
>> Tom
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 15:00:37 -0700
> From: Joann Wheatley
> Subject: Re: [VAL] International Photo
>
> What a great shot with the gorgeous clouds too!
> Jo Ann
> On 9, Jul 2004, at 11:56 AM, Dave Lowrey wrote:
>
>> I am working on getting my photos from this year's International Rally
>> online.
>> In the meantime, I thought folks might like seeing this. It's a
>> panorama shot of the "Vintage" area, soon after we arrived....
>> http://www.pfredd.com/airstream/VAC-Panorama.jpg
>> Enjoy!
>> Dave
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 16:25:42 -0600
> From: "Kenneth E. Johansen"
> Subject: Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
>
> I don't agree - each year has strong points and each have weaknesses.
>
> Ken J
> 58 Overlander
> 75 Tradewind
>
> At 05:53 PM 07/09/04 -0400, you wrote:
>> I agree, Tom.
>>
>> Jim Greene' 68 Tradewind
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tom (et/al)"
>> To:
>> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 3:15 PM
>> Subject: RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
>>
>>
>>> The Beatrice Foods years were the worst for our Airstreams - my 
>>> opinion,
>>> yours may vary.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original 
>> text
>>
>> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 20:06:17 -0400
> From:
>
> Subject: RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
>
> 7/9/2004 12:15:03 PM, "Tom \(et/al\)" wrote:
>
>> The Beatrice Foods years were the worst for our Airstreams - my 
>> opinion,
>> yours may vary.
>>
>
> It does. That's what makes the world go round.
>
> With all due respect, the Beatrice years have some real advantages:
>
> (1) lighter
>
> (2) indestructable interiors -- because the casework was made of 
> aluminum extrusions and melamine laminate, while there is vinyl bonded 
> over the interior skin.
> Amongst other things, this means minimum upkeep.
>
> But also disadvantages:
>
> (1) the color schemes were what today is considered maximally tacky -- 
> avocado green or burnt orange, shag carpets, etc. Furthermore, at 
> least for the first five years
> the laminate was entirely "walnut", which makes for a dark, perhaps 
> gloomy, interior. On the other hand, you're not required to retain the 
> original color scheme -- the
> fabrics (which in thirty years probably have been rotted by the sun), 
> the tambour, and even much of the laminate are rather easy to change, 
> with some really attractive
> choices being available.
>
> (2) no grey water tanks until 1974 (some people have installed their 
> own, or you always can use a blue boy).
>
> (3) the frames were a bit underdesigned, so that they sometime bent on 
> the longer models when driven over rough roads with the waste tanks 
> full. However, the fix for
> this is well known and easily performed by Jackson Center or your 
> dealer.
>
> It's a personal decision. Personally, I love the one I've got, and 
> have no desire to replace it with any other -- newer or older.
>
> -- Lew #4239
>
> '72 Safari
> Getting unstuck from Ohio
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 20:38:14 -0400
> From: "Tom \(et/al\)"
> Subject: RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
>
> What was good about Beatrice Foods owning Airstream? Beatrice Foods
> ownership cheapened the travel trailers which caused lots of problems. 
> I'd
> be interested to know what Beatrice Foods *did* for the now-owners of 
> older
> Airstreams which were produced under their 
> leadership/ownership/guidance.
>
> Who made out good besides the buyers of Airstream back when Beatrice 
> Foods
> *was* the buyer? Did Beatrice Foods make Airstream better or worse? I
> think Thor Industries has made Airstream *better* for sure -- but the
> Beatrice Foods years is where I run into a brick wall as I don't feel 
> they
> made a good product better or as good as it was previously.
>
> Where am I wrong?
>
> Tom
> WBCCI 5303
>
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com 
> [mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com]
> On Behalf Of Kenneth E. Johansen
> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 6:26 PM
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: Re: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
>
> I don't agree - each year has strong points and each have weaknesses.
>
> Ken J
> 58 Overlander
> 75 Tradewind
>
> At 05:53 PM 07/09/04 -0400, you wrote:
>> I agree, Tom.
>>
>> Jim Greene' 68 Tradewind
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tom (et/al)"
>> To:
>> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 3:15 PM
>> Subject: RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best...
>>
>>
>>> The Beatrice Foods years were the worst for our Airstreams - my 
>>> opinion,
>>> yours may vary.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original 
>> text
>>
>> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
> - -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 20:50:30 -0400
> From: "Tom \(et/al\)"
> Subject: RE: [VAL] 74 and 75 trailers were the best... ??
>
> The 1969 model year was a banner year for Airstream -- lots of those
> improvements are *still* around today and that was years before 
> Beatrice
> Foods came on the scene.
>
> You said they were lighter. They used frames that weren't up to specs 
> for
> the load which is a big part of the reason for bent frames I am sure.
>
> In 1969 Airstream bonded the vinyl wall coverings to the interior, 
> that was
> before Beatrice Foods owned the company.
>
> Walnut interiors -- my 1969 Airstream has walnut veneer, real wood 
> walnut
> veneer. Yes, there is walnut laminate but that was used for the table 
> tops
> only that I recall at this moment.
>
> Casework? Do you mean the framing of the beds, etc.? If not, what?
>
> Frames -- you didn't have to travel with a full black water tank to get
> bending frames. What you "need to do" was have a long distance from the
> wheelbase to the rear of the trailer. Of course, a poorly loaded 
> trailer
> would exacerbate the problem -- but how many old time Airstreamers 
> didn't
> know "how" to load a trailer properly? I would bet that bent frames
> occurred even with a properly loaded trailer even when people followed 
> the
> "instructions" to the n'th degree.
>
> The pluses you mentioned - for the most part - came before Beatrice 
> Foods
> with and shortly after the 1969 model year change which was 
> significant.
>
> Tom
> WBCCI 5303
>
>
>
> On Behalf Of pcfranke@xxxxxxxxxx.netcom.com
>
> 7/9/2004 12:15:03 PM, "Tom \(et/al\)" wrote:
>
>> The Beatrice Foods years were the worst for our Airstreams - my 
>> opinion,
>> yours may vary.
>>
>
> It does. That's what makes the world go round.
>
> With all due respect, the Beatrice years have some real advantages:
>
> (1) lighter
>
> (2) indestructable interiors -- because the casework was made of 
> aluminum
> extrusions and melamine laminate, while there is vinyl bonded over the
> interior skin.
> Amongst other things, this means minimum upkeep.
>
> But also disadvantages:
>
> (1) the color schemes were what today is considered maximally tacky --
> avocado green or burnt orange, shag carpets, etc. Furthermore, at 
> least for
> the first five years
> the laminate was entirely "walnut", which makes for a dark, perhaps 
> gloomy,
> interior. On the other hand, you're not required to retain the original
> color scheme -- the
> fabrics (which in thirty years probably have been rotted by the sun), 
> the
> tambour, and even much of the laminate are rather easy to change, with 
> some
> really attractive
> choices being available.
>
> (2) no grey water tanks until 1974 (some people have installed their 
> own, or
> you always can use a blue boy).
>
> (3) the frames were a bit underdesigned, so that they sometime bent on 
> the
> longer models when driven over rough roads with the waste tanks full.
> However, the fix for
> this is well known and easily performed by Jackson Center or your 
> dealer.
>
> It's a personal decision. Personally, I love the one I've got, and 
> have no
> desire to replace it with any other -- newer or older.
>
> -- Lew #4239
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:58:07 -0400
> From: Dave Lowrey
> Subject: [VAL] 2004 International Rally photos
>
> Greetings!
>
> I have placed my photos from the 2004 WBCCI International Rally 
> on-line.
> They can be viewed at: http://www.pfredd.com/gallery/international04
>
> Note that these are low resolution versions for viewing on the web. If 
> you
> would like the high resolution, full size version, drop me an e-mail.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Dave
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Dave & Ann Lowrey - dave_lowrey@xxxxxxxxxx.com
>
> WBCCI: 5074
>
> 1977 31' Sovereign International (center bath)
> Cincinnati, Ohio
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 19:32:00 -0700
> From: Joann Wheatley
> Subject: Re: [VAL] 2004 International Rally photos
>
> Hi Dave:
> Nice shots - it looks like a lot of fun. Thanks.
> Jo Ann
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 19:36:39 -0700
> From: William Kerfoot
> Subject: Re: [VAL] 2004 International Rally photos
>
> Dave,
>
> Thank you,
>
> Bill Kerfoot
> WBCCI/VAC #5223
> 1979 23' Safari
> 1973 Dodge W200 PowerWagon
> 1977 Lincoln Continental
> Orange, CA
>
> Dave Lowrey wrote:
>
>> Greetings!
>>
>> I have placed my photos from the 2004 WBCCI International Rally
>> on-line. They can be viewed at:
>> http://www.pfredd.com/gallery/international04
>>
>> Note that these are low resolution versions for viewing on the web. If
>> you would like the high resolution, full size version, drop me an 
>> e-mail.
>>
>> Enjoy!
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Dave & Ann Lowrey - dave_lowrey@xxxxxxxxxx.com
>>
>> WBCCI: 5074
>>
>> 1977 31' Sovereign International (center bath)
>> Cincinnati, Ohio
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original 
>> text
>>
>> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 23:53:24 -0400
> From: John Truitt
> Subject: [VAL] Lansing 2004 My Reflections
>
> Thank you for those that have written. I'm forwarding my comments to
> those that you suggested. I will attempt to attach a pdf file of my
> reflections and comments to this email. If it does not come through
> and you are interested please email me directly and I will send them to
> you.
>
> Thank you.
> John
>
> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pdf which had 
> a name of WBCCI Response.pdf]
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of VAL Digest V1 #304
> *************************
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary Digest text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to an e-mail format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 23:07:21 -0400
From: "Thomm" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] More on Beatrice and Thor

Thanks for the research you did, Tom.  I will also try to search for some
things related to Beatrice Foods and Airstream.  I remember that Beatrice
Foods had a huge distribution warehouse near downtown Chicago -- and that
was back in the mid-70's -- when I used to go from Florida to Chicago almost
weekly.  What I remember most about that warehouse was how "disorganized" it
was when I had to go there back then.

Is Beatrice Foods still around today?

Tom


From: "Tom Patterson" <tommyjoe@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] More on Beatrice and Thor


> I did a search on Beatrice financial statements to see if I could find
> anything about their results from Airstream operations.  I felt that they
had
> probably taken a pretty good bath during the time of their ownership, with
all
> the gasoline difficulties during that period of time.  I found nothing on
> financial statements, although I still think they suffered greatly from a
> financial standpoint from their Airstream ownership.
>
> What I did find was a little about the Thor acquisition and about Thor
today.
> Anyone interested in looking at this material can go to:
> http://forbes.com/forbes/2004/0329/066_print.html.  I don't know about the
> years 1969 through 1979, but it does look as though Airstream was a real
> problem to Beatrice towards the end of their ownership.  Thus the
"firesale"
> unloading of the brand.
>
> -Tom

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 00:27:42 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] Beatrice Foods & Airstream

More about Beatrice Foods and Airstream.

http://www.airstream.net/FAQ/FAQ_1.html

Tom
WBCCI 5303



Q: It is rumored that Airstream quality suffered in the 1970's when Beatrice
Foods bought the company. Is this so?
A: Beatrice Foods, in the conglomerate climate of the late '60's, bought
Airstream in July 1969. Much is said about the time Beatrice owned Airstream,
both good and bad. The good include the illustrated service manuals and
similar production documentation they introduced. They often get the blame for
the wider, squarer body style change in 1969, but Beatrice did not take over
the company until after the newly styled 1969's was introduced.
Beatrice engineering did introduce the gray water tanks in 1973 and heavier
interiors without changing the frame to support them, resulting in the famed
"droop". Beatrice design group introduced the vinyl covered cabinets, shag
carpeting and dark wood grain interiors in 1972, but then that was the trend
of the times. Beatrice management discontinued the smaller trailers in favor
of the more profitable longer trailers aimed at retirees.
Beat up badly, Beatrice sold Airstream to a group of industry executives
operating as Thor Industries in July 1979, which owns Airstream to this day.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 00:30:10 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] Beatrice Foods - recall issued for Airstream

http://www.recalldata.org/1977/30.shtml

I just found this one.

Tom
WBCCI 5303

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 00:35:39 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] How Airstreams have changed over the years

http://www.vintageairstream.com/FAQ/FAQ_1.html

Q: How have Airstreams changed over the years?
A: The late 1940's were lightweight trailers utilizing a single pipe-frame
support down the center of the undercarriage, which was also the tongue hitch.
The body shape followed the deco looking aerodynamic style of the '30's &
'40's, pointed ends front and back with a single large oval window in the
ends. There was one taillight in the back - smack in the center as allowed on
trailers back then. Interior layouts were almost always custom built to the
buyers taste, and usually lacked bathrooms as we now them now. There were no
hook-ups then, and the tank, fixture and pump technology just wasn't there
yet. Ice Boxes were standard, as were wobble type hand-operated water pumps.
Electrical system consisted of a few 120v outlets. The stoves were the Coleman
portable stove of the era, just attached to the cabinets. Furnishings were of
high quality galvanized steel, solid wood and wood veneers made by furniture
companies. All the appliances were centered over the axle for support.
Interior paint was either a pastel "tender green" or "desert sand". Windows
were lever operated, and the door included the unique for time "door within a
door" screen door.

The early 1950's brought the wider square ladder-frame and A-shaped tongue
hitch riding on leaf spring axles. The body shape became little more squarish
thanks to flat front & rear windows. Skin panel end segments were 13 pie
shaped wedges riveted together to form the curve. Brakes were electric,
operated by a lever in the tow vehicle. Later in the decade hydraulic brakes
were offered that tapped into the vehicle brake system, eliminating the need
for the hand lever on the steering column. Cranks replaced notched levers in
1955, and gas refrigerators arrived about the same time. Interior finish
became the Zolatone textured finish until the 1970's. The color mix changed
over the years to reflect the "in" colors of the time. Interior cabinetry
became more mass produced wood veneers, first with squeeze-type latches, later
with phenolic cam type. Countertops and bath surfaces were painted tempered
hardboard. The electrical system was all 120 volt with an occasional 12 volt
light operated by the tow vehicle battery. Primary illumination was from a LP
gas fired lamp. Apartment style ranges were introduced. Water systems
consisted of galvanized water tanks that were pressurized by a hand pump, gas
station air, or later, an onboard Grover or Coleman air-compressor. Copper and
then bronze waste tanks started appearing, making the trailer more
self-contained. Showers were often just galvanized steel or painted hardboard,
usually with the toilet in the middle. Better forming techniques allowed the
change from 13 panels to 7 compound curve panels about 1958. The Princess line
of RV stove replaced the apartment range. The decade ended in 1959 with the
introduction of a new style extruded aluminum window and Bowen gas fired hot
water heaters replacing the 120v under cabinet units.

The 1960's brought about a new style axle in 1961, the rubber cored
"Dura-torque". Skin panels changed once again in 1964 with 5 broader panel
segments. The early '60's also saw the introduction of the 12volt electrical
system, powered from either an onboard battery or 110v external power. This
introduced the 12 volt Marine type light fixture, the 12v water pump and
plastic water tanks, and the Uni-Volt converter. Cabinets changed from lacquer
to oiled wood, the countertops to Formica laminate, and interior endcaps were
made of one piece fiberglass.  Brakes changed back to electric.  The decade
ended with a big body style change in 1969, with each model growing in length
by one foots and getting wider by 4 inches a squared off shape.

The 1970's trailers mirrored the times. In addition the bigger, wider form
introduced in 1969, the trailers followed the style of the era again, this
time with dark vinyl wood grained cabinets, shag carpeting, plastic tambour
doors and avocado green appliances and countertops. Vista-View windows made
their debut, as did solid state "Airstream Control Centers" in the front
overhead. This was the era of the Beatrice Foods owning the Airstream company.
Microwaves appeared, as did vinyl covered walls in place of the Zolatone. The
shorter Caravel was dropped and the loaded Excella 500 was introduced as
Airstream aimed its marketing at the affluent retirees.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 00:41:37 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] Airstream recall for 19810201

http://www.recalldata.org/1981/12006.shtml

Do you know of any Airstream owners who were affected by this recall?

Begin Date Of Manufacturing:19810201
End Date Of Manufacturing:19810901

Tom
WBCCI 5303

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 00:44:59 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] Beatrice Foods years

This was posted to

<http://www.woodalls.com/forums/index.cfm/fuseaction/editpost/forum/26/editTI
D/13111348/thread/13111205.cfm>


[quote] we have heard that certain years are to be avoided because of aluminum
skin problems[/quote]
What you want to avoid are [b]rear bath models[/b]
I already posted that, somewhere. This Forum?  Anyway:

I downloaded this months ago from the now defunct "Airstream Central.com":


[i]
"Let's talk about the problems with the rear bath. One Airstreamer said "We
own a '77 31' Airstream, and my research says about 25% of models made around
that time were rear bath models. Unfortunately, in the 70's two things
happened: Airstream attempted to redesign the body / frame for lighter weight
and better mileage, and also, Airstream was purchased by Beatrice Foods
[purchased totally by Beatrice Foods in December 1967].
"Our '77 model is typical of rear bath models of that vintage in that there
has been significant frame warp around the wheels, which, if left untreated,
will cause the body to warp and bulge badly. We had the frame reinforced and
had the rear end tied back to the frame where it had separated. This is a
fairly common job on rear bath models at Airstream dealers, and it cost us
about $1700 to restore our Airstream in this way."

"I would suspect that Airstream saw what was happening after only a few years
and discontinued the rear bath models due to frame problems," he added.

"Charlie Burk is an Airstream-trained RV technician. He added this about the
drooping tail and adding black water tanks to an older Airstream,

"...When Airstream added the grey tank in 1973 they didn't take it into
consideration either and had problems with "tail droop". Keeping the tanks
forward is a good idea, Airstream figured it out in the early '70's. The
original idea for rear bath was to offset the weight of the front mounted
water tank. A principle goal way back when was to balance the load and reduce
tongue weight. ..."

"The rear bath came back again around '89 or '90 in the 30 ft. for two years.
Not many were made.

"The smaller Airstreams made in the 80's (23',25',and 27') were all rear bath
models. The approximate Gross Vehicle Weight Rating for them was 5800 to 6200
lbs. Most of the weight in the newer models is from the Oak cabinets and
corian countertops. When people stopped using cars and went to suburbans and
club wagons, why worry about weight? They are about 1,000lbs heavier after '84
or so."
[/i]

As the proud owners of a 1974 [b]rear[/b] bath, I wish we had known about that
when we bought it.
Some unscrupulous dealers will try to make you believe that the tail droop is
caused by "not balancing the complete wheel assembly on the trailer" :R  .
This is a lot of bull, unless rear bath models from specific years are the
only one not getting the wheels balanced properly. [did I mention that a very
vocal dealer own one of those expensive machine to balance the wheels, the
only way it should be done? :W  ]

We like our 1971 & 1974:  a lot more care went into the design & material used
in the interior.
The 1990 is like any other RV of the time. Too much heavy mediocre quality
cabinetry,  mirrors,... fluff.

In the end:  unless you want a TT under 25', or can find one which has been
fixed:  [b]avoid rear bath models[/b]

and you can check [url=http://airstream.com/company/history.html]Airstream
History[/url]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2004 21:53:06 -0700
From: "Roger Hightower" <rwhigh@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Beatrice Foods years

I'm curious as to why you are having such a problem with the Beatrice years.
It's history. Done. Over. You need a hobby or something.

I have a 1975 and have had no problems, nor did the previous two owners.

Roger Hightower, WBCCI #4165, VAC
1975 31' Sovereign
2002 Ford F-250 PSD

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 00:58:14 -0400
From: "Tom" <thomm@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] recent article about Airstream Co today

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/12/28/biz_airstream28.html

This is a good article about Airstream today and yesterday.

Tom
WBCCI 5303

------------------------------

End of VAL Digest V1 #305
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