The Vintage Airstream E-mail ListDigest Archive Files
VAL Digest V1 #258
VAL Digest Tuesday, May 25 2004 Volume 01 : Number 258
-----------------------------------------------------------------
When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary Digest text
To unsubscribe or change to an e-mail format, please go to
http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
Topics in Today's Digest:
Re: [VAL] vinyl/asbestos - cabinet screws
Re: [VAL] vinyl/asbestos - cabinet screws
RE: [VAL] vinyl/asbestos - cabinet screws
Re: [VAL] Toilet part
Re: [VAL] vinyl/asbestos - cabinet screws
Re: [VAL] vinyl/asbestos - cabinet screws
Re: [VAL] vinyl/asbestos - cabinet screws
Re: [VAL] Toilet part
Re: [VAL] vinyl/asbestos - cabinet screws
Re: [VAL] vinyl/asbestos - cabinet screws
Re: [VAL] replacement A/C
Re: [VAL] Toilet part
Re: [VAL] Toilet part
[VAL] loose pan on 69 caravel
Re: [VAL] replacement A/C
Re: [VAL] loose pan on 69 caravel
Re: [VAL] loose pan on 69 caravel
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:14:29 -0600
From: "Kenneth E. Johansen" <johansen@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] vinyl/asbestos - cabinet screws
Speaking of cabinet screws, what do you all think are the best screws to
hold down the cabinets - obviously the ones a/s used are too soft - I'm
restoring all the cabinets in my 58 - so should I use phillips - square -
any particular grade of screw? Whats the best for future removal.
Ken J.
75 Tradewind
58 Overlander
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:50:07 -0500
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] vinyl/asbestos - cabinet screws
Stainless steel, square drive. Square drive won't cam out and stainless
won't rust. Perhaps McMaster-Carr 90000A205 or 94155A127 or 93945A026 or
91655A205 or 90203A121. www.mcmaster.com Most of these numbers are for
2" long #8, most of the pages have other sizes.
McMaster also has Phillips bits for power screwdrivers that are serrated
so they don't cam out as fast as the most common hardware and home
center bits, but they still are nowhere near as good as square (also
known as Robertson) drives.
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:15:26 -0400
From: "Peter Ryner" <pryner@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: RE: [VAL] vinyl/asbestos - cabinet screws
Lowes carries the same screws and drives.
Pete
- ---
Stainless steel, square drive. Square drive won't cam out and stainless
won't rust. Perhaps McMaster-Carr 90000A205 or 94155A127 or 93945A026 or
91655A205 or 90203A121. www.mcmaster.com Most of these numbers are for
2" long #8, most of the pages have other sizes.
McMaster also has Phillips bits for power screwdrivers that are serrated
so they don't cam out as fast as the most common hardware and home
center bits, but they still are nowhere near as good as square (also
known as Robertson) drives.
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:37:10 -0700
From: "Gary Quamen" <g_quamen@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Toilet part
> GQ: Do you remember the web site where you got the "Water Valve
Replacement
> Package"? My manual says the toilet is a Aqua Magic Supreme which is not
> listed on the Thetford site. Where did you find yours.
>
> Tom Fairbank
> 1969 Tradewind
Hi Tom:
Thats a new one on me. Supreme huh?
I just looked at the site:
http://www.thetford.com/permanent_main.cfm
I didn't see that model either. I talked directly to a service rep rather
than using the website. I bought several other parts too. The phone number
on the parts invoice that I have is in Dexter, Michigan: 734.769.6000
Sure it's a Thetford?
GQ '67 Safari
4082 in CA
PS: The replacement package included the floor seal
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:10:58 -0700
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] vinyl/asbestos - cabinet screws
Gerald, What does "cam out" mean. Is that when they get all stripped
and can't be turned anymore?
Jo Ann
On 24, May 2004, at 7:50 AM, Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer
wrote:
> Stainless steel, square drive. Square drive won't cam out and stainless
> won't rust. Perhaps McMaster-Carr 90000A205 or 94155A127 or 93945A026
> or
> 91655A205 or 90203A121. www.mcmaster.com Most of these numbers are for
> 2" long #8, most of the pages have other sizes.
>
> McMaster also has Phillips bits for power screwdrivers that are
> serrated
> so they don't cam out as fast as the most common hardware and home
> center bits, but they still are nowhere near as good as square (also
> known as Robertson) drives.
>
> Gerald J.
> --
> Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
> Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:53:47 -0500
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] vinyl/asbestos - cabinet screws
Phillips and flat screw drivers have a bit of slope on the driving faces
that push the driver out of the slots. That is the "cam out" force. That
leads to stripping. The user of the driver (powered or hand) has to PUSH
hard to hold the driver in the screw. The square (Robertson) drives
don't have any of that slope and so need only minimal pressure to hold
the driver in the screw head. For that reason most modern RV's are made
with square drive screws and even wood workers with the slightest bent
towards production use the square drive screws because then they don't
have to replace a percentage of the screws because of messed up and
unsightly screw slots or Phillips openings.
For the same reason that modern cars and trucks are assembled with Torx
screws, though making the Torx parts are a bit more expensive and not as
widely distributed. Last fall I built a flat bed trailer (using the
frame from a Monitor, SOB) and I used Torx to hold the 2x4 floor planks
in place. Driving them was a relative pleasure because the driver didn't
cam out. And I drove about 180 1/4" screws self tapping into steel
without wearing out the Torx driver. I drove the driver with an air
ratchet to keep my efforts controlled. Worked great. One AC powered
drill to drill through the 2x6 or 2x8 and the steel with the tapping
size, then a battery operated drill to open up the hole in the wood to
1/4", then the air ratchet to set the screw. I had a countersink mounted
on that 1/4" bit took so I opened up the hole and countersunk it in one
pass. Not only was it fairly fast, it came out neat (except where I
missed the steel completely...). These particular Torx were specially
made for anchoring truck and trailer bed planks. Square drives don't
often get that large.
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:08:11 -0700
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] vinyl/asbestos - cabinet screws
this is getting spooky - I think I understood everything you said.....
Jo Ann
On 24, May 2004, at 11:53 AM, Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical
engineer wrote:
> Phillips and flat screw drivers have a bit of slope on the driving
> faces
> that push the driver out of the slots. That is the "cam out" force.
> That
> leads to stripping. The user of the driver (powered or hand) has to
> PUSH
> hard to hold the driver in the screw. The square (Robertson) drives
> don't have any of that slope........
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 18:11:36 -0400
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Toilet part
http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/Archives/2001_08/msg00211.html
Charlie Burke was sure it was a Thetford which he referenced in the above
URL post to the VAC list back in 2001.
Maybe Charlie remembers this one?
Tom
WBCCI 5303
> > GQ: Do you remember the web site where you got the "Water Valve
> Replacement
> > Package"? My manual says the toilet is a Aqua Magic Supreme which is
not
> > listed on the Thetford site. Where did you find yours.
> >
> > Tom Fairbank
> > 1969 Tradewind
>
> Hi Tom:
>
> Thats a new one on me. Supreme huh?
>
> I just looked at the site:
>
> http://www.thetford.com/permanent_main.cfm
>
> I didn't see that model either. I talked directly to a service rep rather
> than using the website. I bought several other parts too. The phone
number
> on the parts invoice that I have is in Dexter, Michigan: 734.769.6000
>
> Sure it's a Thetford?
>
> GQ '67 Safari
> 4082 in CA
>
> PS: The replacement package included the floor seal
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 17:20:38 -0500
From: "J. Anderson" <janderson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] vinyl/asbestos - cabinet screws
Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer wrote:
>"Phillips and flat screw drivers have a bit of slope on the driving faces
>that push the driver out of the slots. That is the "cam out" force. That
>leads to stripping. The user of the driver (powered or hand) has to PUSH
>hard to hold the driver in the screw. The square (Robertson) drives
>don't have any of that slope and so need only minimal pressure to hold
>the driver in the screw head...they don't
>have to replace a percentage of the screws because of messed up and
>unsightly screw slots or Phillips openings."
>
>"... I drove the driver with an air
>ratchet to keep my efforts controlled..."
>
>
>
>
I hope you don't mind if I add emphasis to this subtly stated but very important point
of Gerald's. The slope on the Phillips and flat bladed screwdrivers constitutes a
"weak link" which serves to reduce the likelihood of snapping or through-driving screws
due to overtorquing (by creating slippage between the screw head and the bit),
particularly when using a power driver. My cordless drill-driver, as do most air drivers
I have seen, has an adjustable torque clutch which serves the same purpose very
effectively, without stripping heads/slots.
Robertson and torx bits combined with a power driver need to be used carefully for this
reason.
As miserable as stripped screw heads are, so are snapped screws and
damaged walnut or mahogany panels.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:02:27 EDT
From: JSmith1805@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] vinyl/asbestos - cabinet screws
The only screws I buy is stanless steel If you buy from a wholesaler in 100
lots they are less expencive than buying at Home Depot in their stinking
blister pack. If you need to remove them later they will not be rusted in place.
Jim Smith
1965 Tradewind (The Silver Abaltross)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:57:10 EDT
From: Hmcsteph@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] replacement A/C
I ordered the penguin from Camping world, 1-877-872-6068,
I got the # 300 DOME413 auxillary drain kit, it had be shipped direct from
Dometic.
I got the #10906 ceiling assembly, this is the inside unit with the overhead
control, i did away witht he four wire wall thermostat. This is your option,
if you still want the wall thermostat, know how many wires / conductors are
inside the jacket when you order it.
I got the #10903 penguin 13500 AC, this is the outside unit. (compressor and
coils).
And i also got the #7971 optional heat strip.
It all together ran aroun $917.
The Dometic is not availble at Inland RV. They sale Carrier units only. They
told me they did have an auxillary drain kit available also, but it was one
they had made to fit. (?) I wasn't to sure about it. And I had already ordered
the Dometic by the time they had returned my call.
You will need to remove the old unit. I used the "saws-all" and quickly got
it out of the way.
My old inside unit had a large yellow frame with a fan. When this was
removed, it left a large gap in the ceiling inside lining. This gap is larger than
the penguin inside ceiling assembly. My ceiling lining is not oval, it has two
channels that run down each side of the previouse a/c, and the vents. There are
wires running inside these channels. I covered my gaps using two old strips
of aluminum from my local "airstream dumpster"
You will then need to cut out a 14 1/4" x 14 1/4" hole. I used a
"saws-all"with the fine metal blade. Be sure to include the existing openings from the
previous unit inside your hole, or you must patch them. The penguin uses an exact
14 1/4 x 14 1/4 hole. Then I made a wood frame from 1 3/4" birch strips from
Lowes. This fit between the outer shell and the inner lining. I screwed this
between the two linings using small stainless steel screws.
Remeber to drill a hole in the galley side to insert the power (and
thermostat) cables.
I installed my auxlliary drain kit and heat unit before installation.
When installing the outer and inner units, the screw together and clamp
themselves in place. During this clamping the inner unit will bend at the controls
slightly, conforming to the shape of the airstream. This bending, kept the
final inside cover and filter s from fitting exactly. I had to over cut the
control knob holes to get it to go on. I also had to use the optional screw stands
(already inside the cover) to secure it in place.
My inside cover hides the channel gaps at the front, but the channel gaps in
the rear still remain exposed. It is about an inch by two inch gap. I plan to
fill it with painted wood.
In hindsite, I may have been better off to build an additional inside,
dropped down frame, to allow the unit to seat squarely. But this may have cut into
my head room....?
I hope this helps!!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:29:12 EDT
From: Tombhs@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Toilet part
Tom: Did the pictures I sent come through? They were sent yesterday to
tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com. Yes, I checked again and the toilet has a sticker that
says Thetford Aqua-Magic but no supreme. The manual for the AS says it is a
supreme. I just received an e-mail from the "Team Manager Consumer Service at
Thetford and she says no parts are available for this model but that the AMV is
a good replacement.
Tom Fairbank
1969 Tradewind
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:34:46 EDT
From: Tombhs@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Toilet part
GQ: Yes, its a Thetford Agua-Magic. The manual says Supreme. The Customer
service says no parts are available and they recommend the AMV as a replacement.
Maybe yours was a newer Agua-Magic because the existing parts for the
Aqua-Magic listed on the site do not match my part. Are the parts that you got on
the website? If so, which parts? I don't think we have the same toilets.
Tom Fairbank
1969 Tradewind sans toilet
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:34:28 -0500
From: Daniel Childress <daniel@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] loose pan on 69 caravel
Good Evening all
Just looked at my pan. Several rivets have popped. On first
crossmember all have popped except the extream edges. Pushed up the
pan and can see the balance of the rivets in the crossmember. Any
suggestions? I believe if I try to drill out the rivet in the
crossmember it may leave a enlarged hole. Also the drain for the
onboard water tank does not have the down pipe. Should there be a
down pipe? Getting ready to go to Vermont next week and need to
repair. any help would be appreciated.
Dan
14148
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:03:46 -0600
From: "Forrest" <forrest@xxxxxxxxxx.org>
Subject: Re: [VAL] replacement A/C
Thanks for the very detailed installation description. It'll be a big help.
Forrest
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:10:04 -0500
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] loose pan on 69 caravel
The beauty of rivets is that they swell up to fill holes with minor
enlargements. The belly rivets may be 1/8" rivets, so drill them with
that size drill trying to keep the drill bit centered on the hole. When
the hole gets damaged, drill it out to 5/32 and shove in the next larger
rivet. Some of the rivets on my '68 Caravel actually the head wore
through the belly skin, so I'll need a couple sizes larger rivet and
maybe a washer to hold that skin up.
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 21:22:01 -0600
From: Charlie/Betty Burke <cbburke@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] loose pan on 69 caravel
Dan,
Time to get to know your local hardware sources. A good replacement for
belly rivets is an all aluminum 3/16 diameter shank, 1" long with extra
large head (about the size of a dime). If you can't find the extra large
head use aluminum washers on smaller head 3/16 rivets.
Yes there should be a down pipe from the fresh water tank. Find the tank,
find the drain and put a new 1/2" vinyl line 8-12" down through the hole
and fish it out so that it hangs underneath.
Charlie
Daniel Childress wrote:
> Good Evening all
> Just looked at my pan. Several rivets have popped. On first
> crossmember all have popped except the extream edges. Pushed up the
> pan and can see the balance of the rivets in the crossmember. Any
> suggestions? I believe if I try to drill out the rivet in the
> crossmember it may leave a enlarged hole. Also the drain for the
> onboard water tank does not have the down pipe. Should there be a
> down pipe? Getting ready to go to Vermont next week and need to
> repair. any help would be appreciated.
> Dan
> 14148
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
End of VAL Digest V1 #258
*************************
-----------------------------------------------------------------
When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary Digest text
To unsubscribe or change to an e-mail format, please go to
http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
|