The Vintage Airstream E-mail ListDigest Archive Files
VAL Digest V1 #243
VAL Digest Monday, May 10 2004 Volume 01 : Number 243
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Topics in Today's Digest:
Re: [VAL] Belly Pan Patching
Re: [VAL] Belly Pan Patching
Re: [VAL] Belly Pan Patching
[VAL] Re: More Stuff
[VAL] water pump
Re: [VAL] water pump
Re: [VAL] water pump
Re: [VAL] Re: More Stuff
Re: [VAL] Still more stuff
Re: [VAL] water pump
[VAL] need a raise...
Re: [VAL] water pump
[VAL] Re:Trailer sales
Re: [VAL] water pump
Re: [VAL] need a raise...
Re: [VAL] water pump
Re: [VAL] need a raise...
Re: [VAL] Belly Pan Patching
Re: [VAL] Belly Pan Patching
Re: [VAL] Belly Pan Patching
Re: [VAL] Belly Pan Patching
[VAL] aluminum properties, etc
Re: [VAL] Re: More Stuff
Re: [VAL] Still more stuff
Re: [VAL] Belly Pan Patching
Re: [VAL] Belly Pan Patching
Re: [VAL] Re: More Stuff
Re: [VAL] need a raise...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 22:11:53 -0700
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Belly Pan Patching
Skinning the belly - That's the last big chore I've got to do - I'm
not sure whose question you're answering Gerald, but I'm going to use
your ideas too. My little trailer didn't originally have any holding
tanks and I'm wondering how to skin around them - I assume they are not
covered by the skin or are they??
Jo Ann
On 8, May 2004, at 6:27 PM, Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer
wrote:
> I think I'd make the patch of thicker material than the belly skin, and
> make the patch rectangular so I could work the patch to the inside of
> the hole, might need a temporary handle in the middle of the patch to
> pull it to the belly skin. Then with the rivet expanding on the thicker
> aluminum it would hold better than expanding behind the thin belly skin
> aluminum. Rolled edges would be fancy and hard to do with thicker
> aluminum, say .039 or .045 that would give the rivet better purchase.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 01:19:48 -0400
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Belly Pan Patching
Steve,
Where are these holes? You mention rolled edges -- not too familiar with
your trailer so please explain in further detail if possible. If you have
pictures please send them to me off list at my Email address listed in the
From: line above.
Rounded or radiused corners are done so that you don't have points on the
corners of aluminum sheetmetal which actually is a stressed part of the
metal. A radius allows for any stresses to be spread out along the entire
edge of the repair metal. You should also not have any sharp corners in the
old metal you are repairing. If you have cracks in the metal you should use
a "stop drill hole" -- simply drill a decent sized hole at the end of the
crack line to once again, spread out any stresses to the rest of the
sheetmetal.
I'd be happy to talk a look at what you are doing if you can send me some
pictures. You will need to seal the inside edge of the patch plus you will
need to put sealant into the drilled rivet holes you make prior to placing
the pop rivets in your repair.
If I'm not mistaken the belly skin is made of very pliable aluminum -- so
that it can stretch if hit by rocks and road debris I would imagine without
cracking. You should be replacing the sheetmetal with at least as thick or
at least as strong or stronger metal also.
Tom
WBCCI 5303
From: "Steve Lewis" <stevelewis@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> I need to patch a few rips and holes in the belly pan of my '56 Safari
> to keep the critters out. I know it won't show unless you're crawling
> around down there, but I want to make sure I'm doing it right. I'm
> using scrap aluminum, cutting it a bit larger than the hole, will add a
> good size bead of Vulkum around the perimeter and will rivet it in
> place. Is there any need to roll the edges under? Should I round the
> corners? Am I being too anal retentive?
> Thanks in advance!
> Steve
> Scappoose, OR
> '56 Safari
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 01:23:16 -0400
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Belly Pan Patching
Joann,
I would think that the entire belly of your trailer should be covered with
soft aluminum sheetmetal. This is very pliable sheetmetal -- I think we
used to refer to it a '0' treated aluminum. That's pronounced as "oh", but
it's shown as a zero. In the case of some aluminum alloys like 2024 the
belly skin would just be 0 or almost pure aluminum sheetmetal. The alloys
make aluminum stronger but you can heat treat 0 aluminum after it's formed
to be very strong.
Tom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Joann Wheatley" <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Belly Pan Patching
> Skinning the belly - That's the last big chore I've got to do - I'm
> not sure whose question you're answering Gerald, but I'm going to use
> your ideas too. My little trailer didn't originally have any holding
> tanks and I'm wondering how to skin around them - I assume they are not
> covered by the skin or are they??
> Jo Ann
> On 8, May 2004, at 6:27 PM, Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer
> wrote:
>
> > I think I'd make the patch of thicker material than the belly skin, and
> > make the patch rectangular so I could work the patch to the inside of
> > the hole, might need a temporary handle in the middle of the patch to
> > pull it to the belly skin. Then with the rivet expanding on the thicker
> > aluminum it would hold better than expanding behind the thin belly skin
> > aluminum. Rolled edges would be fancy and hard to do with thicker
> > aluminum, say .039 or .045 that would give the rivet better purchase.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 23:26:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Leggett <pklhead2@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Re: More Stuff
Jo Ann-
I put salvage parts listings on the VAC Classifieds as "Free to Good Home" and they
were snapped up the same evening, and from as far away as Georgia (while I'm in San
Fran). There's no requirement to set a price on things if you're just being a good
samaritan and looking for someone to recycle unneeded parts!
John Leggett
San Francisco
1968 Sagari 22T
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 23:34:35 -0700
From: Joel Raymond <pi2@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] water pump
I am in the process of restoring a 65 Caravel. Actually I am closer to
refurbishing than restoring. Currently I am attempting to get the water
system operating. My problem is the onboard pump not working to full
capacity. Instead of delivering 4.3 gal/min, it is closer to 4.3 gal/hr! I
measured the water flow at the output of the pump in order to eliminate any
possible line blockage. I tested the inlet side and it is not blocked.
First, I found that the flappers on the check valves were glued shut by the
patina formed on the copper support. Cleaning the patina allowed the pump to
work, whereas before it did not. I inspected the diaphragm and do not see
anything that would hamper its operation, no pin holes. There are only a
few moving parts to the thing, so it can't be too difficult to rebuild it.
Are check valves and diaphragms still available or should I find a
replacement. Better yet, does anyone have a suggestion.
Best regards, Joel --
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 02:43:54 -0400
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] water pump
Joel,
Is it necessary that you must have an exact replacement or exact replacement
parts? I don't know a thing about your particular pump but it sure sounds
like the "innards" are worn out. The diaphragms make look ok but in reality
they might be warping out of shape when pressure is applied.
A new pump will save you lots of time and frustration and they are not
expensive. Why not replace the pump first and then spend countless hours on
the Internet looking for replacement parts for your antique pump? ;)
Tom
WBCCI 5303
From: "Joel Raymond" <pi2@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> I am in the process of restoring a 65 Caravel. Actually I am closer to
> refurbishing than restoring. Currently I am attempting to get the water
> system operating. My problem is the onboard pump not working to full
> capacity. Instead of delivering 4.3 gal/min, it is closer to 4.3 gal/hr! I
> measured the water flow at the output of the pump in order to eliminate
any
> possible line blockage. I tested the inlet side and it is not blocked.
> First, I found that the flappers on the check valves were glued shut by
the
> patina formed on the copper support. Cleaning the patina allowed the pump
to
> work, whereas before it did not. I inspected the diaphragm and do not see
> anything that would hamper its operation, no pin holes. There are only a
> few moving parts to the thing, so it can't be too difficult to rebuild it.
> Are check valves and diaphragms still available or should I find a
> replacement. Better yet, does anyone have a suggestion.
> Best regards, Joel --
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 08:00:19 -0400
From: "Jim Greene" <drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] water pump
Joel, I believe those PAL pumps are still in production and parts are
available. I've seen diaphragm and other replacements parts in RV stores. I
believe if you do a search in the archives you will find sources and
instructions.
Jim Greene
' 68 Tradewind
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Raymond" <pi2@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 2:34 AM
Subject: [VAL] water pump
> I am in the process of restoring a 65 Caravel. Actually I am closer to
> refurbishing than restoring. Currently I am attempting to get the water
> system operating. My problem is the onboard pump not working to full
> capacity. Instead of delivering 4.3 gal/min, it is closer to 4.3 gal/hr! I
> measured the water flow at the output of the pump in order to eliminate
any
> possible line blockage. I tested the inlet side and it is not blocked.
> First, I found that the flappers on the check valves were glued shut by
the
> patina formed on the copper support. Cleaning the patina allowed the pump
to
> work, whereas before it did not. I inspected the diaphragm and do not see
> anything that would hamper its operation, no pin holes. There are only a
> few moving parts to the thing, so it can't be too difficult to rebuild it.
> Are check valves and diaphragms still available or should I find a
> replacement. Better yet, does anyone have a suggestion.
> Best regards, Joel --
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 08:02:56 -0400
From: "Jim Greene" <drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: More Stuff
Jo Ann, I found a good home for oven shelves and refrigerator bins, etc.
thru the VAC ads.
Jim Greene
' 68 Tradewind
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "John Leggett" <pklhead2@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: "VA List" <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 2:26 AM
Subject: [VAL] Re: More Stuff
> Jo Ann-
> I put salvage parts listings on the VAC Classifieds as "Free to Good Home"
and they were snapped up the same evening, and from as far away as Georgia
(while I'm in San Fran). There's no requirement to set a price on things if
you're just being a good samaritan and looking for someone to recycle
unneeded parts!
>
> John Leggett
> San Francisco
> 1968 Sagari 22T
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 08:07:34 -0400
From: "Jim Greene" <drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Still more stuff
Jo Ann, It was stuff I didn't have a need for. I sent it for the cost of
shipping. The other side of the coin is that other Airstreamers have
"donated" parts to me. Goes around, comes around.
Jim Greene
' 68 Tradewind
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Joann Wheatley" <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Still more stuff
> Hi Jim:
> I thought about that but I have no idea of a price for any of this
> stuff. So far, I've given it all away for the cost of shipping.
> Jo Ann
> On 8, May 2004, at 3:10 PM, Jim Greene wrote:
>
> > Jo Ann, you might offer them on the VAC classifieds under parts. I
> > can't
> > believe parts off of a trailer of that vintage come up very often.
> >
> > Jim Greene
> > ' 68 Tradwind
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 08:47:48 -0500
From: <Balloon@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] water pump
Joel,
Tom is correct. Just go buy a $65.00 pump, you get water all is good.
You will miss the comforting sound of the old PAR. Look for your
parts and rebuild the old PAR. After the rebuild, keep it in your trailer,
because the cheap $65.00 will break when you are dry camping and the
water in your tank is the only source.
Paul Waddell
WBCCI/VAC/WDCU 1270
66 Overlander
66 Safari
> A new pump will save you lots of time and frustration and they are not
> expensive. Why not replace the pump first and then spend countless hours
on
> the Internet looking for replacement parts for your antique pump? ;)
>
> Tom
> WBCCI 5303
>
> From: "Joel Raymond" <pi2@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> > I am in the process of restoring a 65 Caravel. Actually I am closer to
> > refurbishing than restoring. Currently I am attempting to get the water
> > system operating. My problem is the onboard pump not working to full
> > capacity. Instead of delivering 4.3 gal/min, it is closer to 4.3 gal/hr!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 06:12:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Anthony <seaaudio@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] need a raise...
I have a '57 Caravanner that we think rolled at one
point in it's life. I've had it for a couple of years
and am trying to sort out some issues with the axle
and tire size.
The wheels that came with it are 14.5 inches (can't
find a 3rd for a spare) and the trailer is very low.
I have tires on it now with an outside diameter of 26
3/4 inches. I can't possibly go any larger; the tire
only has one inch clearance in the front of the wheel
well, 2 in back.
http://www.airstreamrestoration.com/closerlook/DSC00988.JPG
http://www.airstreamrestoration.com/closerlook/DSC00999.JPG
What I'd like to know is if it's possible to put
longer "straps" on the "springs" (using quotes because
I don't know proper names) and gain more height. I
only have maybe 3.5 to 4 inches clearance from the
bottom of the axle now. More height would allow me a
15 inch wheel and a 28.1 inch diameter Marathon.
I've included a link to a photo to the part from a
most excellent site (don't have a camera).
http://www.vintageairstream.com/floyd/brakes/brakes,afterlink.jpg
So can I extend this "strap" 2 or 3 inches? Or is
there a better way?
Scott
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 10:03:30 -0400
From: Daisy Welch <jtdjtd@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] water pump
I'm with Tom, if I can't see it, why have it original?
On the other hand, I think that most of those pumps have a fixit kit.
You need the make and model # and someone will tell you a source. Get
two, while you're at it, as long as you like tinkering.
Daisy
Tom wrote:
> Joel,
>
> Is it necessary that you must have an exact replacement or exact replacement
> parts? I don't know a thing about your particular pump but it sure sounds
> like the "innards" are worn out. The diaphragms make look ok but in reality
> they might be warping out of shape when pressure is applied.
>
> A new pump will save you lots of time and frustration and they are not
> expensive. Why not replace the pump first and then spend countless hours on
> the Internet looking for replacement parts for your antique pump? ;)
>
> Tom
> WBCCI 5303
>
> From: "Joel Raymond" <pi2@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
>
>>I am in the process of restoring a 65 Caravel. Actually I am closer to
>>refurbishing than restoring. Currently I am attempting to get the water
>>system operating. My problem is the onboard pump not working to full
>>capacity. Instead of delivering 4.3 gal/min, it is closer to 4.3 gal/hr! I
>>measured the water flow at the output of the pump in order to eliminate
>
> any
>
>>possible line blockage. I tested the inlet side and it is not blocked.
>>First, I found that the flappers on the check valves were glued shut by
>
> the
>
>>patina formed on the copper support. Cleaning the patina allowed the pump
>
> to
>
>>work, whereas before it did not. I inspected the diaphragm and do not see
>>anything that would hamper its operation, no pin holes. There are only a
>>few moving parts to the thing, so it can't be too difficult to rebuild it.
>>Are check valves and diaphragms still available or should I find a
>>replacement. Better yet, does anyone have a suggestion.
>>Best regards, Joel --
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 10:40:40 EDT
From: Streamliner86@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re:Trailer sales
You might try looking in the Tincan Tourist site.They have had several
requests in the past for Airstreams..
Regards,
Phil Kaufman
1957Streamline Empress
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 08:42:37 -0600
From: Rob Davis <rob-iod@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] water pump
Daisy Welch wrote:
> "On the other hand, I think that most of those pumps have a fixit kit.
> You need the make and model # and someone will tell you a source. Get
> two, while you're at it, as long as you like tinkering."
West Marine still sells replacement parts for PAR pumps.
Rob Davis
'64 GlobeTrotter
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 11:01:06 -0500
From: <Balloon@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] need a raise...
Scott,
The term used is I believe is "shackle". This system of mounting the
spring to the frame has been used for years. You will find old cars,
40's, 50's, 60's have this system. Your problem is not the shackle
but the spring and the shackle. I dare to say the spring has lost its
arch over the many years and needs to be replaced. By increasing the
length of the shackle you are not really fixing the problem. The true
fix is to get new springs made at your local spring shop and put
new shackle and bushings in place. When making the springs you can
ask for different levels of arch. The more arch, the higher the ride.
You can also ask to add an extra leaf. This to will increase the height,
but will make the ride stiffer. Last but not least, you can ask them to
re-arch the spring that is there. This still requires taking them off and
putting them back on. This may say a little money, but I don't think
its a good of job.
This is coming from a man who has had many old cars that have
squat in the rear until new springs are put in place. It is better to
fix the problem, not just put a band-aid on it.
Paul Waddell
WBCCI/VAC/WDCU
66 Overlander
66 Safari
70 Safari
68 Travelall
62 Ford Galaxie
63 Triumph Herald
Subject: [VAL] need a raise...
> I have a '57 Caravanner that we think rolled at one
> point in it's life. >
>
> What I'd like to know is if it's possible to put
> longer "straps" on the "springs" (using quotes because
> I don't know proper names) and gain more height.
>
> So can I extend this "strap" 2 or 3 inches? Or is
> there a better way?
>
> Scott
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 09:42:34 -0500
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] water pump
Screens at faucets tend to clog from crud and lime in the water. Its
important to clean them when evaluating pump performance. And to expect
much flow restriction through a water filter, far more in a dirty water
filter.
The 4.3 gal/min rating is free flow, no pressure rise from plumbing,
filter, or screens downstream from the pump. A modern diaphragm pump
rated at 4.3 gpm actually only puts out about 2.5 gpm at 50 psi. I'm
shopping for just such a pump for building a small farm sprayer, and
some vendors are good at showing the reduced flow at pressure and some
are not.
A major effect on pump performance is the seal of the pump diaphragm.
That wear is not always visually obvious.
1.8 or 2.2 gpm pumps and the occasional 3.5 gpm Shurflo pumps are
stocked at Northern Tool, RV stores, farm sprayer suppliers, and farm
stores (Farm and Fleet, Farm and Home, Orcheln, Tractor Supply,
Buckheit's). Many show up on ebay but the ebay prices are not as nice as
at the stores, though the sprayer suppliers in Iowa have the best prices
by far. Similar pumps are sold by the Flojet company and through many of
the same outlets.
I suspect that your pump is not an original, many of the vintage
trailers used an air pump to pressurize the tank, not a water pump. The
water pump gets you more water in the tank when starting, but has to run
each time a faucet is opened.
There can be wear on the valve seats that a new set of flexible parts
wont fix, so rebuilding may be ineffective.
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 09:42:37 -0500
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] need a raise...
Wow! A WHOLE INCH! My '68 Caravel had a quarter inch clearance at the
front with bias ply tires. I went to radial tires with the same load
rating and gained an inch of clearance. Bias ply tires swell when
inflated and may stretch larger with age. Radial tires are limited by
the steel belt to almost no stretch.
If the axle is on top of the spring, you can gain several inches of
height by unbolting the axle and moving it to the bottom of the spring.
That was done to all the trailers on the famous African Safari in the
50s to gain more ground clearance for the trails they used as roads.
Even then they had lots of problems crossing streams and washes.
A shop that makes and repairs cattle hauling trailers probably has a
selection of springs in stock at more reasonable prices than having
spring made. Likely stored by width, length, and load rating.
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 09:42:41 -0500
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Belly Pan Patching
Tom, the 2024 alloy hardens with age or heat treat. The belly skin is a
bit thin, the 0 heat treat means its not been heat treated and means its
soft, not that its nearly pure aluminum. I have some well aged sheets of
2024 and bending it in my brake leads to broken pieces.
On the other hand 2024 drills and machines beautifully, without the
gummy drill grabbing characteristics of the near pure aluminum alloys
like 3003.
The belly skin needs a fair amount of strength being supported at the
edge and the center of the belly. 2024 or 6061 or 6063 are stronger than
the soft aluminum sold for house trim and flashing. The 606x are more
pliable at all ages than 2024.
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 09:42:45 -0500
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Belly Pan Patching
Jo Ann, the belly skin on my '68 Caravel covers the holding tank with
the belly skin. Only the gas line, the holding tank drain and the
utility entrance port (another pipe with cap like the tank drain) pierce
the belly skin. The gas line is outside the skin through nearly all of
its length.
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 13:30:36 -0400
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Belly Pan Patching
Dr G,
I only used the 2024 as an *example* of harder aluminum alloy versus the
much softer belly skin aluminum alloy such as 0 which is very heat
treatable, workable, etc. My intention was not to say that 2024 *should* be
used at all in this or any other case. What *should* be used is sheetmetal
that is "as strong or stronger" than the original sheetmetal so that you may
retain at least the original strength of the design.
My use of "pure aluminum" was only to try and say that as compared to the
aluminum alloy sheetmetal 2024 the '0' aluminum sheetmetal was as pliable,
treatable as an almost pure aluminum sheet of metal. In no way was I trying
to say that '0' aluminum sheetmetal was "pure aluminum" -- lost it in my
choice of words I guess.
I'm very familiar with all the grades of aluminum alloys and I also have
lots of experience in building aircraft parts both for airframes and
powerplants. My licenses say so along with my years on the job maintaining
aircraft bodies and engines. ;))
Best,
Tom
> Tom, the 2024 alloy hardens with age or heat treat. The belly skin is a
> bit thin, the 0 heat treat means its not been heat treated and means its
> soft, not that its nearly pure aluminum. I have some well aged sheets of
> 2024 and bending it in my brake leads to broken pieces.
>
> On the other hand 2024 drills and machines beautifully, without the
> gummy drill grabbing characteristics of the near pure aluminum alloys
> like 3003.
>
> The belly skin needs a fair amount of strength being supported at the
> edge and the center of the belly. 2024 or 6061 or 6063 are stronger than
> the soft aluminum sold for house trim and flashing. The 606x are more
> pliable at all ages than 2024.
>
> Gerald J.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 12:02:35 -0500
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Belly Pan Patching
Aren't all aluminum alloys and plain pure aluminum classed by 4 digit
numbers, e.g. as I recall 3003 is pretty close to pure aluminum. Bends
beautifully, but is weak and gummy to drill. 0 to me stands for a heat
treat level and 3000 isn't one that responds to heat treatment.
Sure a strong alloy should be used, and its really hard to find anything
stronger than 2024, but for bending 2024 should be fresh from the
factory annealing process or it won't bend without breaking unless the
bending radius is large.
I've not looked at the inside of my belly skin to see what alloy was
used there, but as its not supported by many ribs, I expect that a
really low strength material would not work well.
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 14:25:34 -0400
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] aluminum properties, etc
http://shopswarf.orcon.net.nz/alalloy.html
Anyone can go to this URL and find out what the numbers mean when you are
talking about aluminum sheetmetal.
You can now see and understand what the 2024, 6063, etc. numbers actually mean
- - the different combinations of alloys used in the making of aluminum
sheetmetal.
Tom
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 12:08:32 -0700
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: More Stuff
Thanks for the tip John - can you see me slapping the front of my head?
I wonder about the axle, it being so heavy. I figured if I could even
get a scrap metal guy to come get it I'd be happy. jw
> Jo Ann-
> I put salvage parts listings on the VAC Classifieds as "Free to Good
> Home" and they were snapped up the same evening, and from as far away
> as Georgia (while I'm in San Fran). There's no requirement to set a
> price on things if you're just being a good samaritan and looking for
> someone to recycle unneeded parts!
> John Leggett
> San Francisco
> 1968 Sagari 22T
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 12:19:11 -0700
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Still more stuff
Jim: you're right of course. So far, I've sent stuff out for the cost
of shipping also. I just didn't want it to go to waste.
Jo Ann
On 9, May 2004, at 5:07 AM, Jim Greene wrote:
> Jo Ann, It was stuff I didn't have a need for. I sent it for the cost
> of
> shipping. The other side of the coin is that other Airstreamers have
> "donated" parts to me. Goes around, comes around.
> Jim Greene
> ' 68 Tradewind
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 12:29:32 -0700
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Belly Pan Patching
Gerald: thanks for the info. Regarding the gas lines being outside the
skin...where are they most likely to leak? At the fittings right -
which are inside the trailer anyway so I've never seen the logic to
insisting that the gas line be outside the belly pan. Explain please.
The holding tanks are pretty far down - remember this little Bubble
never had holding tanks originally so I'm not sure if mine are lower
that trailers designed to have them. I'll send you a photo of the
arrangement.
jw
On 9, May 2004, at 7:42 AM, Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer
wrote:
> Jo Ann, the belly skin on my '68 Caravel covers the holding tank with
> the belly skin. Only the gas line, the holding tank drain and the
> utility entrance port (another pipe with cap like the tank drain)
> pierce
> the belly skin. The gas line is outside the skin through nearly all of
> its length.
> Gerald J.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 13:51:30 -0500
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Belly Pan Patching
The gas line is probably less likely to leak inside the belly pan, but
LP being heavier than air tends to sink and fill the belly pan, and
outside the belly pan it has a much better chance of dispersing to keep
from reaching a combustible mixture, so the majority of the gas line is
outside the belly pan. It turns up at every appliance.
Its possible your holding tanks are below the frame and would be below
the space normally enclosed by the belly pan.
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 16:14:41 -0400
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: More Stuff
Have you seen the money being paid today for scrap metal? There have been
several multi-digit increases in the last few months.
Find out how much is being paid "per pound" for scrap metal -- you might
find that it would pay you to take it to the scrap dealer yourself. Be sure
to put a nice, thick covering on the bed of your truck though. ;)
Tom
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Joann Wheatley" <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: More Stuff
> Thanks for the tip John - can you see me slapping the front of my head?
> I wonder about the axle, it being so heavy. I figured if I could even
> get a scrap metal guy to come get it I'd be happy. jw
>
> > Jo Ann-
> > I put salvage parts listings on the VAC Classifieds as "Free to Good
> > Home" and they were snapped up the same evening, and from as far away
> > as Georgia (while I'm in San Fran). There's no requirement to set a
> > price on things if you're just being a good samaritan and looking for
> > someone to recycle unneeded parts!
> > John Leggett
> > San Francisco
> > 1968 Sagari 22T
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 17:39:50 -0400
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] need a raise...
Scott
My '60 Overlander (spring suspension) was low and dragging at the rear going
into most driveways. The axle was mounted above the spring. I had the axle
"flipped" (now mounted under the spring) and raised the body of the trailer
by about 4". This may give you enough clearance. However I would only try
this if the springs and all the running gear are in good condition. If not I
would get a new spring and axle from someplace like Dexter.
Scott Scheuermann
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Anthony" <seaaudio@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 9:12 AM
Subject: [VAL] need a raise...
> I have a '57 Caravanner that we think rolled at one
> point in it's life. I've had it for a couple of years
> and am trying to sort out some issues with the axle
> and tire size.
>
> The wheels that came with it are 14.5 inches (can't
> find a 3rd for a spare) and the trailer is very low.
> I have tires on it now with an outside diameter of 26
> 3/4 inches. I can't possibly go any larger; the tire
> only has one inch clearance in the front of the wheel
> well, 2 in back.
>
> http://www.airstreamrestoration.com/closerlook/DSC00988.JPG
> http://www.airstreamrestoration.com/closerlook/DSC00999.JPG
>
> What I'd like to know is if it's possible to put
> longer "straps" on the "springs" (using quotes because
> I don't know proper names) and gain more height. I
> only have maybe 3.5 to 4 inches clearance from the
> bottom of the axle now. More height would allow me a
> 15 inch wheel and a 28.1 inch diameter Marathon.
>
> I've included a link to a photo to the part from a
> most excellent site (don't have a camera).
>
> http://www.vintageairstream.com/floyd/brakes/brakes,afterlink.jpg
>
> So can I extend this "strap" 2 or 3 inches? Or is
> there a better way?
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
End of VAL Digest V1 #243
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