VAL Digest V1 #206

VAL Digest            Friday, April 2 2004            Volume 01 : Number 206




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Topics in Today's Digest:

Re: [VAL] Tank Capacities
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #192 - Semi-monocoque construction
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #190 - Inflating tires with nitrogen
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #173 - Spare tire carriers
Re: [VAL] Tank Capacities experience
[VAL] 1971 23' Safari for sale

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Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 06:34:13 -0700
From: "Bob Hightower" <rhightower@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Tank Capacities

Thanks, Oliver. That size should be sufficient to get me through a few days
with judicious use of water, so I may have a problem in the drainage system
as the tank seems to fill too quickly.

Bob

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Oliver Filippi" <ofilippi@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Tank Capacities


> Bob,
>
> My 1976 owner's manual lists the following tank capacities:
>
> Main holding tank (Black)  (Int'l Rear Bath) 20 gal.
>                                           (Center Bath )   23 gal.
> Aux Holding tank (Grey)   (Int'l Rear Bath)   14 gal.
>                                           (Center Bath)     16 gal.
> Fresh Water Tank   50 gal.
> Water Heater  10  gal.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Oliver Filippi
>
> P.S. The Owners's Manual covers all models (lengths) of that model year.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bob Hightower" <rhightower@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Tank Capacities
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

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Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 00:31:10 -0600
From: waymark1@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #192 - Semi-monocoque construction

The frame separation that sometimes occurs demonstrates the strength and
stiffness of the body shell of the Airstream. If the "house" was entirely
supported by the frame, if the frame sagged the body would also sag.
Instead the body holds itself up despite the loss of support by the frame
in the rear.
You can be sure that it is not good for the shell to be left without
support from the frame. It is not intended to hold itself up - it is only
intended to contribute to the stiffness of the trailer assembly.

The trailer shell, being of aluminum, expands and contracts at a
different rate from the steel underframe. The expansion and contraction
of aluminum and alloys containing aluminum has contributed to the
disrepute of aluminum sheet roofing. It tears the nail holes in the
roofing, generating leaks. 
The top of the shell is heated by the sun, as is the side exposed to the
sun, while the shaded side remains at the temperature of the ambient air.
This generates stresses on the skin which must be dispersed. The generous
curves of the Airstream help dissipate the stresses as the curves bow in
and out slightly, unlike aluminum skin trailers that have flat sides and
roofs. On those, creases in the sheets provide some relief, and the
corners and edges are usually curved, which also helps to relieve stress.
My old Spartan appears at a glance to have flat sides and roof, but when
you look closely you can see that the sides have a slight radius. The
roof has a slight crown and is curved from front to rear, which is its
prominent design feature. My Silver Streak similarly has a curve to the
sides from top to bottom. The roof has a crown and ridge. Plus the side
sheets are creased. This allows thermal stresses to be relieved.
Al

> Tom wrote:
> 
> > Hi Charlie,
> >
> > Aircraft have been using sheetmetal that overlaps a minimum of at
least two rows of fasteners since they've been using aluminum to build
them if it is a structural part.  Seams on aircraft are sealed on the
overlapped areas and not the entire area skin area as you've described
below.  Aircraft go through much more physically than our travel trailers
ever would - aircraft actually *grow* in length and width at altitude
which our Airstreams never do even at sea-level.  It is very difficult
for me to believe that future leaks that WILL certainly come to all our
trailers.
> 
> ------------------------------

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Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 00:40:29 -0600
From: waymark1@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #190 - Inflating tires with nitrogen

If one wished to use pure nitrogen in the tires you could get a tank of
nitrogen from a welding gas supplier. The half size tanks are sold, not
leased.
I have one left from when I was running Citrokn cars. I used it to
recharge the "spheres" (accumulators) in the suspension, steering and
braking system.
A regulator is not needed if you exercise reasonable care. I have a 1500
psi gage between the tank valve and the hose connection as the highest
pressure used in the accumulators is less than 1500.
For tire inflation purposes you would only need a gage higher than the
highest tire pressure you anticipate filling, like 100 psi. Gages are
most accurate and easy to read in the middle of the range.

If you wish to be absolutely careful you can use a regulator or a relief
valve. I did not as the Citrokn accumulators would easily withstand the
initial pressure of the nitrogen, about 2300 psi. Tires, of course, will
not stand such pressure. New tires are supposed to withstand 4x the
maximum rated pressure (140 psi for a 35 psi tire; 240 psi for a 60 psi
tire; 320 psi for an 80 psi tire). A steel rim should bend at the bead
seat before the tire would burst. 

Air is largely nitrogen, about 4/5. It's the rest of the air, oxygen,
trace gases, and water, that are not needed in the tire.

A considerable benefit of dry nitrogen in the tires is no wheel rim rust.
Nitrogen molecules are large enough that they do not permeate the tire
liner like lighter gases. Helium even leaks through the steel of its
tank.

After purging the tire several times with nitrogen there should be almost
no oxygen or moisture left inside the tire.
Al

> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:28:36 -0500
> From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Possible Wheel/Hub balance alternatives
> 
> One of the only products I know of for use in tires that will not hold
water *and* heat build-up is Nitrogen gas.  Nitrogen is an inert gas, it
won't burn, hold heat, moisture, etc.  But where you going to fill up
your tires?
> ;))  .... Oh, I know!  Any airport enroute! ;))  Make that any airport
with a maintenance facility.
> 
> Tom

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Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:29:10 -0600
From: waymark1@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #173 - Spare tire carriers

My trailer has a large trunk for storing the spare tire, the jacks,
awning braces, and even the dolly, which is a HEAVY thing with gears and
chain drive. The wheel locks, jack, you name it, was all in the trunk, as
there is no other place to store the big things.
I have never experienced any sway even with no sway control hooked up.
Surely the designers would not have done this if they thought it would
cause the trailer to be unsafe.
Al

> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:13:15 -0600
> From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" 
> <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> Subject: Re: [VAL] hello from a new member...
> 
> The back bumper of vintage Airstreams tends to be not strongly
supported.
> 
> Adding weight to the rear takes weight off the tongue that makes the
hitch connection sloppy and leads to trailer lateral instability when
taken to the extreme.
> 
> Most of us leave the spare on the tongue or haul it in the truck bed.
> 
> Gerald J.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:58:00 -0500
> From: <Balloon@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Subject: Re: [VAL] hello from a new member...
> 
> Dan,
> 
> I have seen some (including myself 1966 Overlander) carry the spare
behind the propane tanks in the Y part of the front frame. On the 69 and
newer the connection to the car/hitch is in the front. You maybe able to
rig something up that would work.
> 
> Paul Waddell
> WBCCI/VAC/WDCU 1270
> 
> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Patterson" <tommyjoe@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 6:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [VAL] hello from a new member...
> 
> 
> > The rear bumper on my '65 Streamline actually cracked from the
jolting it received going down the road after I mounted the spare to it. 
I replaced the bumper and now carry the spare mounted in the pick-up bed.
> >
> > -Tom
> >
> >
> > > >Has anyone attached the spare tire to the back bumper of a 69
caravel.  The example on the web has one.
> > >
> > > Dan
> > > 14148
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:53:24 -0600
> From: schuetzen - RKBA! <chasm@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> Subject: [VAL] Spare tire carriers
> 
> On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 19:58:00 -0500, <Balloon@xxxxxxxxxx.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> >Dan,
> >
> >I have seen some (including myself 1966 Overlander) carry the spare
behind the propane tanks in the Y part of the front frame. On the 69 and
newer the connection to the car/hitch is in the front. You maybe able to
rig something up that would work.
> 
> there is also the capability of mounting the spare under the front
gaucho with a drop down frame.  such is found on my trailer.
> They have been accessories for nearly forever.
> fwiw
> chas
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 22:28:55 -0600
> From: Daniel Childress <daniel@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Spare tire carriers
> 
> >Thanks to all the information about spare tire carriers.  I will be
getting with the welder to fabricate a carrier on the hitch.  Do not want
to modify the pan in front to allow the spare to be mounted under the
caravel.  Added weight on the rear would lighten the hitch weight. 
Having removed the tanks the additional weight on the hitch sounds good. 
 Thanks again
> 
> Dan
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:47:15 -0500
> From: gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Spare tire carriers
> 
> All this talk here lately on tires and tire carriers got me to thinking
about putting my spare back under the trailer. My problem is though
there's not a holder in the area for the tire.
> They used to be available from the guy who has the Healthy Homes site,
but I guess he just had a few.
> Anyway, does anyone know where I may get one?
> 
> Thanks
> Bobby
> 229-460-5195

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Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 10:08:45 -0800
From: "Oliver Filippi" <ofilippi@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Tank Capacities experience

Bob,

I think the concept as to tank capacities on the '76 models was an excellent
one.  I have a 25' Tradewind.

It has a very large fresh water tank - 50 gallons or so, a substantial size
black water tank and a small grey water tank.

You can alway get rid ot the grey water, but the black waste dump sites are
more scarce.  Having a large supply of fresh water gives you a lot of
options and a substantial period of operating self contained (along with the
substantial black water tank).

I think this is an excellent tradeoff - giving you long range with a minimum
of weight, and the option of carrying less fresh water if you won't be
needing it.

The grey water tank can fill up fast if you go crazy in the shower or rinse
dishes with lots of water (perhaps like at home).  Also, on shorter trips,
if dumping the grey water is a problem, you can always use the plastic jug
to transfer it to the black water tank via the toilet.

I think some of the newer Airstream trailers do not have as large a fresh
water capacity.  In my opinion, this is a mistake.

Oliver

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Hightower" <rhightower@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 5:34 AM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Tank Capacities


> Thanks, Oliver. That size should be sufficient to get me through a few
days

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Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:44:45 EST
From: FRYDMANS@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] 1971 23' Safari for sale

Dear Listers: Hope this is not out of line but I Just bought a 1971 27' 
International that needs some extra TLC. I wanted a new project. I will be asking 
many questions in the near future.
That leaves me with a 1971 23' Safari that I no longer need. It is in great 
shape with no outside damage, all glass intact and everything in working order 
except for the refrig that will not stay cold. Center twin configuration with 
original upholstery that is getting a little thin. A great vintage Airstream 
for someone starting their lifelong love affair. It will be very gentle for 
first timers. If anyone knows someone that would be interested, please let me 
know. 
Thanks
Steve Frydman (frydmans@xxxxxxxxxx.com)
1-262-241-3296
Milwaukee, WI  

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End of VAL Digest V1 #206
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