The Vintage Airstream E-mail List

Digest Archive Files


VAL Digest V1 #192



VAL Digest           Friday, March 19 2004           Volume 01 : Number 192




-----------------------------------------------------------------
When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary Digest text

To unsubscribe or change to an e-mail format, please go to
http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

Topics in Today's Digest:

[VAL] Forrest re:closed end rivets ?
[VAL] Re: Hello everyone!
Re: [VAL] Forrest re:closed end rivets ?
[VAL] Pop rivets re:closed end rivets ?
[VAL] Forrest, others  re:links to fasteners
RE: [VAL] Anyone in the Denver area?
Re: [VAL] refrigerator removal
[VAL] Looking for a past member
Re: [VAL] Anyone in the Denver area?
[VAL] Re: Anyone in the Denver area?
[VAL] RE: Airstream Europe
Re: [VAL] Looking for a past member
Re: [VAL] Looking for a past member
Re: [VAL] Ken re:solid rivets vs Olympic rivets
Re: [VAL] Looking for a past member (solar )
Re: [VAL] Forrest re:closed end rivets ?
Re: [VAL] Hoo, boy!   RE: 1956 Caravanner Skin Care
Re: [VAL] Sealing seams internally

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 01:36:09 -0500
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] Forrest re:closed end rivets ?

Who makes these rivets, Forrest?

Tom

From: "Forrest" <forrest@xxxxxxxxxx.org>
> Tom and Andy,
> What do you think of "closed end" rivets? I know that they don't look like
> bucked rivets, but the rivet suppliers say they are stronger than "pop"
> rivets and because the end is closed they are water proof. I've used them
in
> a few places on the exterior where the bucked rivet was never used (around
> the water heater for instance) and so far they seem to be holding up well.
> Forrest

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:35:07 -0500
From: "Scott Fling" <sfling@sg-realty.com>
Subject: [VAL] Re: Hello everyone!

Hey Ken, 

I have tried a lot of different things but nothing works as good as Nuvite 
and a Cylo. 

Scott 

 

Kenneth E. Johansen writes: 

> Scott 
> 
> What polish and tools do you use to polish your plane?  I'm always 
> interested to hear how different folks polish - especially those who have 
> polished aircraft... 
> 
> Ken J
> Durango CO 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:03:36 -0700
From: "Forrest" <forrest@xxxxxxxxxx.org>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Forrest re:closed end rivets ?

I don't know who the manufacturer is. There are probably a number of
different companies that make them, as they seem to be readily available,
although not from general hardware stores. I get mine from Fasteners, Inc.
in Denver (they also sell Olympic). They are also available via the web,
see: http://www.rivetsnow.com/closedend.html

Forrest

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 11:36 PM
Subject: [VAL] Forrest re:closed end rivets ?


> Who makes these rivets, Forrest?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 02:36:02 -0500
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] Pop rivets re:closed end rivets ?

Forrest,

Those are pop rivets.  They are weak when compared to Olympic, Cherry Max
and Cherry-Lok fasteners.  I would not use pop rivets anywhere except maybe
the interior skin.  These are not made for structural applications.  Forget
what they advertise about leakage - they are inexpensive fasteners which
will work loose given half a chance.

Stick with the tried and true unless you want to do as I do - at least as
strong or stronger.

Tom
WBCCI 5303


From: "Forrest" <forrest@xxxxxxxxxx.org>
> I don't know who the manufacturer is. There are probably a number of
> different companies that make them, as they seem to be readily available,
> although not from general hardware stores. I get mine from Fasteners, Inc.
> in Denver (they also sell Olympic). They are also available via the web,
> see: http://www.rivetsnow.com/closedend.html
> Forrest

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 03:09:30 -0500
From: "Tom" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] Forrest, others  re:links to fasteners

Forrest,

Below are several links to places where you can not only view the products but
they will also give you an idea how they work in structural situations.
Granted, these fasteners are very superior to what Airstream uses on their
travel trailers and they are not cheap in price nor quality - but you get what
you pay for.

Hope this helps you and others understand fasteners better.

Tom
WBCCI 5303

http://www.textronfasteningsystems.com/aerospace/html/product/rivets.htm

http://www.textronfasteningsystems.com/aerospace/html/support/tech/faq.htm

http://www.peerlessaerospace.com/pub/Productimages/HK_UNIMATIC_BLINDRIVET.pdf

http://www.peerlessaerospace.com/pub/Productimages/taf_products.pdf

http://www.peerlessaerospace.com/pub/Productimages/TAF_CHERRYMAX.pdf

http://www.peerlessaerospace.com/pub/Productimages/TAF_CHERRYLOCK.pdf

http://www.peerlessaerospace.com/pub/Productimages/taf_sst.pdf

http://aerotfs.com/fasteners.htm

http://www.fastdim.com/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:13:34 -0700
From: "JP Polly" <jppolly@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Anyone in the Denver area?

To Scott in Denver, there is a very active WBCCI unit in Denver area and
quite a few with vintage units.  This summer there is a Vintage Airstream
Club rally at the Garden of the Gods, the perfect place to see about 50
different units.  I went to the one last year in La Veta,Co, and it was
outstanding.
Polly in western CO 
WBCCI 7113 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:54:49 -0700
From: "phelock" <phelock@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] refrigerator removal

Thanks, Terry.

How is the exhaust vent attached to the fridge?

I need a freezer compartment door and hardware for the Dometic M52EB1?

Curtis

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:21:15 -0500
From: "Mr. Joy H. Hansen" <joytbrew@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Looking for a past member

Hi All,

I'm looking for Jim Dunmyer.  I'll try his e-mail address, but things change
from 2001.  If anyone knows his current whereabouts, please send me a note.
Jim is an expert on solar electric.

                                                         '69 Safari, Joy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:06:36 -0700
From: "Stan Truitt" <stan.truitt@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Anyone in the Denver area?

hello scott
i'm harry in franktown, just southeast of denver. i am a newbie to the vac
and i purchased my trailer in early fall. i have almost completed the
interior and systems but will not start the exterior until this fall. polly
in western colorado made a great suggestion in regards to the vac rally in
colorado springs this summer but that is not until late july and early
august so if you are like me, you are looking for a trailer now!!. i can
offer some advice ......do your best not to get too impatient and buy the
first trailer you look at.  i did not practice what i preached and although
i am happy with mine, if i had waited i have seen 3 or 4 since that were in
better shape and better priced. it seems that you are going to need a large
unit perhaps 28-31 feet? if so, you will be happy to know that in general,
vintage airstreams are cheaper by the foot. what i mean is that usually you
will pay more for a trailer the smaller it is. i have seen the larger units
go for bargain basement prices at times. you will however need to be careful
with some years of the larger units (rear bath models i believe) that can
have suffered from frame separation. this subject can best be discussed with
others here on the vac site or on tom pattersons archive site as it is a
subject that has been discussed many times. i would be happy to show you my
trailer at any time but it is not a duel axle and only 22 ft. it does
however have the same characteristics that larger trailers have, systems and
the like. i would not be qualified to do an inspection of a trailer for you
but i have learned quite a bit and could "show and tell" in regards of
things to be concerned with such as soft floors, leaks etc.  i could also
let you know if i see any for sale locally. good luck with your hunt.

harry truitt
franktown colorado
66 safari
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Fling" <sfling@sg-realty.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:56 PM
Subject: [VAL] Anyone in the Denver area?


> I am finding out very quickly that I dont know jack about Airstream
> trailers. I have read a few books, seen a few trailers, talked to a few
> people, etc. but everytime I think I have a handle on what I want I get
> reminded why I dont want that. Are there any VA members near me that could
> possibly show me their trailers? Maybe after seeing enough of them I will
> start to get a better idea of what to do and how much it is going to cost
> me. Please e-mail me and let me know if you are close to Denver and want
to
> show off your toy. Also, I may need someone who is knowledgable to do a
> pre-buy inspection on a trailer if I am lucky enough to find one. (I would
> gladly pay for your advice rather than learning the hard way.)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Scott
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:12:19 -0500
From: "Scott Fling" <sfling@sg-realty.com>
Subject: [VAL] Re: Anyone in the Denver area?

Hey Harry, thanks for the info. I would love to see your trailer. I live up 
north but I wpork near the Tech Center and would have no trouble at all 
coming over to Franktown. Let me know when you have some free time.
Scott

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:44:29 -0000
From: "Anthony Slocock" <anthony@xxxxxxxxxx.co.uk>
Subject: [VAL] RE: Airstream Europe

OK RJ, here's the update for the VAL:

- -------------------------------------

Hi RJ

Hope you're well.  Thought I'd update you on the Europe issue, having seen
your posting to the VAL (which I do read daily).
The Liner rebuild is very much a personal project, designed more to promote
and push, than really be a prototype - the systems are all way over the top
for a production model.  But obviously some lessons learnt will be valuable.

The new chassis with all the services (incl. tanks) etc. for example is much
heavier duty than would probably be appropriate for a production model.  It
has been finished and shipped to the US.  I'll be over from 31st March to
17th April to oversee the uniting of the rebuilt body and Nidacore floor
with the new chassis.  There'll be some outstanding issues before it can be
shipped back, but its getting there..  I'll be at the Washington DC Unit
Cherry Blossom rally April 1st to 3rd (coutesy of Garnett Harner and Clayton
Rogers) with all my latest CAD drawings and specs for anyone who is
interested.  I will document the project fully for you and the VAC community
in due course.

There is much talk of production for Europe.  I was at the JC plant in Feb
with two other UK colleagues to meet Airstream and collectively we may be in
a position to assist the expansion. Currently various initiatives are in
progress and until these are 'further down the road', production remains
hypothetical.  However, I do personally think its now a question of when and
how, rather than if, but we'll see - I am very realistic!

The Germans are hot for Airstreams.  The other 2 biggest EU markets are the
Netherlands and UK.  The UK travel trailer (as opposed to motorhome) market
is currently 30,000 units a year.

I am not as a general rule posting info to the masses as this is very much a
step by step journey we are on and I do not want to make any promises (yet).
However if you wish to post this update please do.  I do strongly believe
that production of new EU compliant models will be by far the best answer to
the average European's dream to own an Airstream.  Restoring, let alone
completely rebuilding vintage units, is not for the faint hearted or thin
walleted, as those of us who have done it know.

I apologise to all that the eurostream site has not had an update since it
was built.  I have needless to say been focusing my energies on the
physical, rather than digital manifestation of Airstream, but the latter
will catch up.!

Best regards and keep up the great work!

Anthony



__________ NOD32 1.679 (20040318) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.nod32.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:09:18 -0800
From: "Gary Quamen" <g_quamen@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Looking for a past member

> Hi All,
>
> I'm looking for Jim Dunmyer.  I'll try his e-mail address, but things
change
> from 2001.  If anyone knows his current whereabouts, please send me a
note.
> Jim is an expert on solar electric.
>
>                                                          '69 Safari, Joy

Hey Joy:

He has a website:

http://www.oldengine.org/members/jdunmyer/

GQ '67 Safari
4082 in CA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:37:00 -0500
From: "Mr. Joy H. Hansen" <joytbrew@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Looking for a past member

Thanks Gary,

I enjoyed looking at his site.  I'm looking at a 26' Avion 1978 and thought
to ask him what defects to look for.

                                           Regards,  '69 Safari, Joy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:31:20 -0500
From: Chris Elliott <celliott@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Ken re:solid rivets vs Olympic rivets

hey Ken ,and all ,
   Dont fear the old buck rivets . one of the most enjoyable tasks on my
flying
cloud restoration has been learning io rivet .Bought a used cleco
pnuematic e 3
gun , bucking bar and hammer tip things for < 100 bucks I forget what
and
practiced some , made the tails look like  the old ones . Its easy and a
nice
tool and the strongest , plus you dont have to shave em  or spend on a
shaver .
There are ,or were at the time several guys with airplane experience who
wrote
off line and helped . Then I just did it . got rivets at aircraft spruce
I think
. ,Dont get hung up on hardness grades etc , just get the regular ones
and a
variety of lengths . You arent flyin it to the moon ,so they dont have
to be
stored on ice etc. cheap .fast fun . gotta have them around the door
inside if
you take inside down .not hard to drill out pop rivets inside to access
repair
area .
   I love buck rivets , and thanks guys for the help .
Chris Elliott 63 cloud  sorry about the bad grammer , I am writing from
a
hospital bed !gonna be ok tho

johansen@xxxxxxxxxx.net wrote:

> I figured that buck rivets are much stronger - my impression from Andy is the
> olympic rivit is just as strong or stronger.
>
> Ken J.
>
> Quoting Tom <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>:
>
> > Hi Ken,
> >
> > I'm not Andy but ...
> >
> > Bucked rivets are solid rivets that have had their tails "bucked".  The
> > solid rivet is very much stronger than any blind rivet although the Cherry
> > Max and Cherry-Lok rivets are extremely strong also.  Of course you'd only
> > use a blind fastener when you couldn't get to the tail of a solid rivet.
> >
> > Tom
> > WBCCI 5303
> >
> > From: <johansen@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> > > Andy
> > > Are the washerless olympics superior to the buck rivets?
> > > Ken J.
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> > http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:31:33 -0500
From: Chris Elliott <celliott@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Looking for a past member (solar )

Hey Joy ,
   If your thinking solar , look into unisolars new flexable ones that stick
down in long lengths for steel roofs . I used them on my 63 and love them .
Chris Elliott

Gary Quamen wrote:

> > Hi All,
> >
> > I'm looking for Jim Dunmyer.  I'll try his e-mail address, but things
> change
> > from 2001.  If anyone knows his current whereabouts, please send me a
> note.
> > Jim is an expert on solar electric.
> >
> >                                                          '69 Safari, Joy

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:31:45 -0500
From: Chris Elliott <celliott@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Forrest re:closed end rivets ?

Reminds me that there are different hardness grades of pop rivets ,too
.Might as
well get good ones .
Chris

Tom wrote:

> Who makes these rivets, Forrest?
>
> Tom
>
> From: "Forrest" <forrest@xxxxxxxxxx.org>
> > Tom and Andy,
> > What do you think of "closed end" rivets? I know that they don't look like
> > bucked rivets, but the rivet suppliers say they are stronger than "pop"
> > rivets and because the end is closed they are water proof. I've used them
> in
> > a few places on the exterior where the bucked rivet was never used (around
> > the water heater for instance) and so far they seem to be holding up well.
> > Forrest
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:40:32 -0500
From: Chris Elliott <celliott@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Hoo, boy!   RE: 1956 Caravanner Skin Care

I have seen corrosion from inside come thru - evil  mouse nests in my 63 .  I
had to replace panel . Very corrosive stuff , mouse pee is .
Chris

Tom wrote:

>
> I have yet to see any Airstream trailers, no matter how bad and mistreated,
> with rotted aluminum caused by corrosion from the inside out.  Have you?
>
> Tom
> WBCCI 5303
>
>  I

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:46:58 -0500
From: Chris Elliott <celliott@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Sealing seams internally

One the curved ends of 63 , the panels overlaped from 1.5 to 3.5 .dry , maybe
some black undercoat sprayed around seam which seeps in .
Chris

Tom wrote:

> Hi Charlie,
>
> Aircraft have been using sheetmetal that overlaps a minimum of at least two
> rows of fasteners since they've been using aluminum to build them if it is a
> structural part.  Seams on aircraft are sealed on the overlapped areas and
> not the entire area skin area as you've described below.  Aircraft go
> through much more physically than our travel trailers ever would - aircraft
> actually *grow* in length and width at altitude which our Airstreams never
> do even at sea-level.  It is very difficult for me to believe that
> future leaks that WILL certainly come to all our trailers.

------------------------------

End of VAL Digest V1 #192
*************************


-----------------------------------------------------------------
When replying to a message, please delete all unnecessary Digest text

To unsubscribe or change to an e-mail format, please go to
http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html