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VAL Digest V1 #167

VAL Digest          Monday, February 23 2004          Volume 01 : Number 167

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Topics in Today's Digest:

Re: [VAL] veneers and hardwood plywood
[VAL] Bargman Lenses
Re: [VAL] veneers
RE: [VAL] veneers and hardwood plywood
[VAL] 2004 International
Re: [VAL] veneers
Re: [VAL] veneers
Re: [VAL] veneers
[VAL] veneers
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #165 - Rodent damage to wire
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #166 - Self adhesive veneer?


Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:44:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Toby Folwick <>
Subject: Re: [VAL] veneers and hardwood plywood

a couple things I was thinking about on this folks -
bear with me for a second.

(-- links at the bottom --)

Veneers:  #1 - don't fear this idea.  I was thinking
that there might be significant weight savings if you
use a lower grade pine plywood, filling in the knots
etc. before you apply the veneer - probably a
significant cost savings as well, and many options as
to what you want the facing to look like.  Wood
quality overall has changed in the last 40 years since
we're trying to get the most out of the fewest trees
(compared to 40 years ago).  I know you'll hate to
hear this, but if you don't have one, you'll have to
buy a router.  (c:  (just got mine!) 

Furniture Grade Plywood: if you can get a veneer, you
can get the plywood.  don't fear this idea either -
I've been studying this in preparation for a complete
restoration of all my cabinets.  It's *not* terribly
hard to find just about anything you want, (quilted
maple plywood?  beech?  all available!)  try metro
hardwoods if you're in the midwest
( -- you have even more
options if you're on one of the coasts - especially in
the east it seems.

FINAL THOUGHT: Buy the wood in FEBRUARY - specifically
in the 2nd and 3rd weeks!  I've watched the prices in
my area (midwest) and there are all KINDS of sales in
January, but *if you can wait* until February, the
prices are HALF of what they will be in June.  1/4"
Birch plywood in my area is under $20 per 4' x 8'
sheet - ($18?) whereas in July it will be no less than
$36 in my area.  February, seriously - it's been the
same thing for the last 6 years.

okay, there's my pennies worth.




There are many biggies out this direction - please
send links to me if I missed one




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Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 23:09:12 -0800 (PST)
From: John Leggett <>
Subject: [VAL] Bargman Lenses

I have not done business with Mark other than to inquire if he did lenses other 
then the Bargman #99 (which he said he did not).  Anyone else have any more first-hand experience?
John L.
- ------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:59:37 -0500
From: "chyde" <>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Bargman #99 Replacement lenses

> For those folks looking for Bargman lenses, you might contact
> Mark Schick <
> who is making reproduction lenses - $25

>Have you or anyone else on the list purchased any of these lenses?  
>have been on ebay for a while. I sent the guy a request for some better
>photos along with a couple of questions. He never responded, so I was
>wondering about the quality.

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Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 07:32:18 -0500
From: "Jim Greene" <>
Subject: Re: [VAL] veneers

My '68 Tradewind has elm which had delaminated and I replaced it with ash
which I could find locally.

Jim Greene
' 68 Tradewind
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "schuetzen - RKBA!" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 12:28 AM
Subject: Re: [VAL] veneers

> On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 23:58:44 EST, wrote:
> >
> >I personaly would descourage any one from reveneering your trailed it is
> >hell of a lot of work with many pitfalls.eaiser to replace with furniture
> >plywood.
> yeah but, where do you get that beautiful flame grain mahogany which was
in the
> '66-'68 trailers??


Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 07:37:22 -0500
From: "Peter Ryner" <>
Subject: RE: [VAL] veneers and hardwood plywood

I've done both veneer and total plywood replacement.  In the end I don't
think there is an appreciable difference in the cost depending on the
species of wood.  The big advantage of veneering is that you don't have to
disassemble the cabinets.  Saves a lot of time and trouble.  The down side
like others have pointed out is the issue of gluing the veneer.  I got my
veneer from rockler (  I've had very good luck with the
company.  They also make custom doors which I found were very precise sized
and well put together.  They sell and recommend a book by Herrick Kinball,
refacing cabinets.  It is a little dated, but very informative on how to
effectively veneer.  In his book he does not recommend veneering large
panels because of the gluing problems.  I used the paper backed pressure
type of veneer which worked well.  Another tip I picked up is to use a
wooden or hard plastic smoothing stick vice a j roller.  It presses better
on the wood for a good bond.

I totally rebuilt the interior of my '68 with new plywood.  I did have to
remove all the cabinets, but that was a blessing in disguise in the end.  I
found some damage behind some places I could't see and was also able to
customize the trailer setup.  Replacing the heater with a modern smaller
unit and combining the stove and cooktop game me a lot of extra room in the
kitchen.  Obviously, keeping the trailer original wasn't an issue for me.
It took a while to complete, but I am very pleased with the outcome.

I guess my $.02 would be to use veneer if you want to keep the trailer
intact and replace the doors.  I would also recommend that you consider
using 1/8" plywood over any large panels vice thin veneer to prevent
buckling and separation.  Be ready for a big job if you rebuild, but it does
give you some flexibility.  By the way, if you rebuild you will need some
good tools - always a good thing!
Good luck


Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:01:10 -0500
From: "jyoung" <>
Subject: [VAL] 2004 International

Hi Fellow VACrs
Thank you Scott & Patricia for your insights on the upcoming international in
I don't have time for the "Caravan", We are working full time & building a new
house this summer. I should have said to join the parade into the
International. I will continue to scan the two club's web sites for new
postings by the organizers.
I'm looking forward to seeing such a large event, so much so that I hope to
steal a couple of days away from the construction project.
John & Cindy Young
WBCCI 36034, VAC, & Mi. unit
58 Caravanner
74 Tradewind


Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:33:03 EST
Subject: Re: [VAL] veneers

Try Certianly Wood They are suppliers of fine veneer and if my memory is 
correct they will make up custom pannels.
Jim Smith


Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:48:16 -0800
From: "chyde" <>
Subject: Re: [VAL] veneers

>     Anyone know where to get good veneer wood cheap ? Whats the tricks of
> trade ? And the tools ?
> Chris Elliott 63 flying cloud

I got mine at


Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:29:47 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <>
Subject: Re: [VAL] veneers

.100 thick? maybe .010 thick. Less than 1/64th compared to nearly 1/8"

The veneer press is an important tool for large areas.

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.


Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:42:36 -0500
From: "Louis Joyner" <>
Subject: [VAL] veneers

For you veneer searchers, check this company.

I became aware of them when needing to match the Ribbon Mahogany veneer
wallcovering from a theatre I was working one.  Since then they have
substantially broadened their product range. (I'm liking the leather
wallcovering).  They have beautiful veneers, and if you want a fancy
mahogany, walnut burl, carpathian elm, or something more exotic, they can
get it for you (So IN is the veneer capital of the world-so the veneer guys

I expect the phenolic-backed veneer has a backing like that of plastic
laminate: a veneer adhered to layers of kraft paper saturated with a
phenolic resin.  It would be stiff, easy to work with, easier to lay up than
other veneer products.  Better for beginners.

Good luck.  Report back

Louis Joyner
'64 Overlander with Ash veneers-peeling in the bathroom.


Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:46:10 -0600
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #165 - Rodent damage to wire

Certainly it's better to replace old wire, especially rodent chewed. The
romex is supposed to be properly fastened in place, which requires
opening up the walls in several places.
I wrote that "mouse-chewed wire won't usually catch fire" because most
owners aren't willing to go to the work of replacing wire.
Ordinary romex solid copper wire is what is usually used in travel
trailers and motor homes for the 120V or 240V AC wiring even though it
would be better to use stranded wire in a vehicle. Solid wire seems to do
well enough. The AC power is used only when the trailer/MH is stationary
but it is subject to vibration when the vehicle is moving. I haven't
encountered a single taped wire nut in any TT I have worked on even
though wrapping with tape in the direction of tightening is the proper
thing to do to wire nuts. The only electrical tape has been on slap-dash
Soldered wire connections should not be used in a vehicle.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 08:47:49 -0500
> From: Chris Elliott <>
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #163 - Rodent ravaged wire
> Well I don't know if it would have caught on fire or not, but  < wont
usually catch fire > isn't good enough for me to sleep well in. After
what I saw when I took the inner skin down on my trailer, I wouldn't say
they are restored unless the insulation is out. I suppose wrapping with
tape is ok, but new wire is better. Also it doesn't take a big hole for
them to get in; they can go thru the 1/2 " triangular holes where the
horizontal frames meet the bows, and surrounding the furnace and water
heater there are cutouts in the inner skin that are 1' x1.5" , providing
easy access . I intend to block those off with C shaped strips before the
furnace is reinstalled , I stuffed other places with alum screen crumpled
up . Mice are the ruination of these trailers , and I don't think any 40
year old trailer hasn't seen a mouse or two, and the consequent damage
cause .
> Chris


Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:01:08 -0600
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #166 - Self adhesive veneer?

There used to be a co. here that sold veneers with adhesive that was
applied with an iron. The adhesive was so thin that it did not make any
bulging as the veneer was applied.
I may still have a roll around somewhere.
The veneers were also available in flat sheets, 2' x 4', 2' x 8' and 4' x

> ------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 20:03:34 -0600
> From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" 
> <>
> Subject: Re: [VAL] veneers
> Fine Woodworking for September/October 1995 has an article on applying
veneer to a table top. Probably very informative reading.
> Constantines ( has been a long time supplier of a
wide selection of veneers. Not necessarily low cost, but an extensive
collection. Mostly the tools are simple as the veneer is so thin a
utility knife is plenty tool for cutting. Gluing is the trick, especially
with traditional glues where every square mm of the veneer needs to be
pressed against the wood. I don't think ordinary contact adhesives as
used for formica counter tops (though formica is a possibility for some
surfaces) will work well with thin wood veneers because the adhesive is
likely to penetrate too far through the veneer to the outer surface
making later finishing irregular because of the grain filled with contact
cement. Maybe if the back side of the veneer was sealed with the front
filler and finish, it would prevent the contact cement from bleeding
through. And then maybe the veneer could be treated more like formica
with contact cement and rolling it into place with a J roller.
> For edges there are a number of products in rolls that are applied with
heat to hide the edges of plywood and veneering projects. A household
iron is supposed to work for those.
> Gerald J.


End of VAL Digest V1 #167

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