VAL Digest V1 #164

VAL Digest          Friday, February 20 2004          Volume 01 : Number 164




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Topics in Today's Digest:

Re: [VAL] Tow?
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #163 - Rodent ravaged wire
Re: [VAL] Tow?
Re: [VAL] Airstream Diagrams
Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #163 - Rodent ravaged wire
[VAL] Re: VAL 2004 International
Re: [VAL] Tow?
Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #163 - Rodent ravaged wire
Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #163 - Rodent ravaged wire
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #162
[VAL] Bargman #6 Lens
Re: [VAL] Silver Trailer Social - May 13-16 - Calistoga California
Re: [VAL] 39 Foot Airstream on EBAY
[VAL] rear access door

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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:20:57 -0500
From: gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Tow?

Bill
Your right to point out the frame as being questionable. But once you install
a Class V hitch back there it should beef it up enough. It's been awhile since
I've looked under an old Ford truck, but from what I remember they are pretty
stout.

Bobby
1973 Ambassador
1988 Chevy K1500 4X4
2002 Chevy Suburban 4X4
Valdosta, GA
  ----- Original Message -----
  Wrom: UFPEGAUTFJMVRESKPNKMBIPBARHDMNNSKVFVWRKJVZCMHVIB

  gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com<mailto:gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com> wrote:

  >Chris
  >I bet it would pull a Bambi and would look good too! Even if it is a Ford.
  >Bobby
  >
  >
  Bobby,

  Watch that language, there is nothing wrong with a Ford.  The truck
  should be able to pull a Bambi without a problem.  The only weak point
  might be the frame.  Look at the VAC rally pictures for the Duncan Mills
  rally for some vintage tow rigs.

  Bill Kerfoot
  WBCCI #5223/VAC
  1979 23' Safari
  1973 Dodge W200 Powerwagon
  1977 Lincoln Continental,- I'm not prejudiced
  Orange, CA

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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 07:51:08 -0600
From: waymark1@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #163 - Rodent ravaged wire

Mouse-chewed wire won't usually catch fire. Rarely the mouse/rat/squirrel
(BIG hole somewhere!) will be electrocuted and its hair set on fire
without blowing the breaker.
Only if the bare wires touch one another, or touch the metal of the
trailer, will there be a short circuit, which might start a fire but
usually will blow the fuse/circuit breaker. That's what fuses and CBs are
for.
After making certain power is off (unplug the trailer cord), wrap each
bare wire with electrical tape to the thickness of the original
insulation. Then wrap the entire cable with electrical tape or cloth
electrician's tape.
.........................................................................
...........................
>   The ac which worked had several places where rodents had chewed the
insulation bare , behind the inner skin . Miraculously it never caught
fire.
.....................
> Chris
> 63 'cloud

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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:35:45 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Tow?

What about brakes? Had Ford changed to hydraulic brakes by the '39 truck
year? The rod mechanical brakes on the '33 and '36 were hardly ever
balanced in my dad's cars when I was a kid. He carried a wrench in the
car and when he detected a pull, he stopped and made an adjustment.
Still a panic stop could have been more than a little interesting from
unbalance in the brakes. On highway trips in Missouri the state patrol
stopped us nearly every trip to check the brakes.

What about turn signals? They didn't come in until much later.

Electrical system will be 6 volts positive ground, workable but not
common today.

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:36:02 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Airstream Diagrams

For the 120 volt wiring, you need many more outlets and circuits today
than were supplied in any wiring job in 1963, mobile or residential. You
need more 12 volt outlets too for gadgets, computers, TV, and the like.

The entrance panel hidden in a corner of some compartment only
accessible from outside does not meet the modern electrical code, nor is
it convenient to go outside in the middle of the rain storm to reset a
breaker. That's not even especially safe. The entrance panel should be
readily accessible, and at the back of a closet is generally accepted.
The DC fuse block needs the same accessibility. Yes, it takes more
planning and wire to make the panels accessible, but it saves so much
time and frustration when they need attention in the future.

The vintage 1963 wiring will be simple and fairly generic. There are
wiring diagrams in the '68 manual, and the wiring is still simple and
generic. A trailer service book like recommended here regularly will
cover most needs.

Romex, while it was the original wiring material, isn't made for mobile
applications. I'd rather see a more flexible cable with stranded
conductors with a tougher jacket to wear better over the decades of use.
Unfortunately the National Electrical Code doesn't allow using neoprene
insulated flexible cords inside walls. It would be a better material
than solid conductor romex. Plastic romex is tougher than the old cloth
romex though.

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:44:48 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #163 - Rodent ravaged wire

Mice and rats seem to be immune to ventricular fibrillation, the most
common cause of electrocution death. I've tried and failed to kill mice
with electricity (even up to 1000 volts with their feet in a brine
solution).

Loose connections which are guaranteed with the aluminum wire used in
the late 60s are a much more likely source of fires. Those bare aluminum
wires need to be connected only with lugs or devices made for use with
aluminum wire. Otherwise all those connections will work loose and lead
to excessive heating.

Wires touching may not make a sturdy enough short to blow a fuse or trip
a breaker but may spit hot metal balls to ignite nearby materials. I've
documented fires started that way a few times.

I prefer my wiring to be in steel conduit. Then rodents can't get to it.
Its quite easy to replace any wires damaged by vibration or by severe
overloads, and the steel contains any magnetic fields (though I have not
yet found any evidence of the magnetic fields from normal wiring and
appliances being any danger).

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:00:12 -0500
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL 2004 International

John & Cindy,

I will try to answer your questions. I have been to the last five
Internationals, so I kinda know the ropes.

> 1.    When the VAC caravans to the rally, can I join the caravan, if so,
> where, when & cost? It seems like a fun thing to be part of the group.

Are you talking about the week long caravan before the rally, or the parade
into International? As far as I know there is no info out on either yet.
Look for it on the website, the VA and possibly on this list.
The rendevious to parade into International is usually at a parking lot,
then we leave the next morning or early afternoon to parade into the
International parking site. Quite fun. Quite a site. No cost for this with
the possible exception of a small parking fee collected on site.
> 3.    Will the VAC park together on site or at the "alternate parking"
site?

Yes, yet to be announced.
> You polished trailer owners can use our dull &  rust streaked trailer as a
> "not yet restored" example. The only thing that shines on our trailer is a
new
> gas regulator & new steel rims.

No problem! We welcome Airstreams and their owners in all conditions! A
couple of years ago someone showed up with a mid 50's 26 foot shell ! It
didn't even have a complete floor!!!
> 4.    Will I get blocked in or will I be able to leave early? I work full
time
> & can't stay for an entire week. Cindy won't be joining me since she can't
get
> any time off in July.

You will not be blocked in.
> 5.    I haven't decided on weather to attend the beginning half with the
> caravan or the ending half of the rally. Any comments on which would be
better
> for a "first timer"?

A tough call---I would have to go with the Wagon Wheels Caravan if I only
was able to go to one.
> 6.     If I decide to arrive during the last half of the rally, Can I
register
> & pay at the gate instead of registering & sending money now?

Yes, but I don't know if or how much of a break on the price you will get.
If you are just going to be there for the day there will be no charge...just
don't try to attend the night's entertainment as they do check for your
registration ribbons.

Scott Scheuermann
1960 Overlander

> Thank you
> John & Cindy Young
> WBCCI, VAC, MI Unit # 6034
> 1958 22' Caravanner
> 1974 25' Tradewind

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:53:50 -0500
From: "Jim Greene" <drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Tow?

Ford introduced hydraulic brakes in 1939.

Jim Greene
' 68 Tradewind

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Tow?


> What about brakes? Had Ford changed to hydraulic brakes by the '39 truck
> year? The rod mechanical brakes on the '33 and '36 were hardly ever
> balanced in my dad's cars when I was a kid. He carried a wrench in the
> car and when he detected a pull, he stopped and made an adjustment.
> Still a panic stop could have been more than a little interesting from
> unbalance in the brakes. On highway trips in Missouri the state patrol
> stopped us nearly every trip to check the brakes.
> 
> What about turn signals? They didn't come in until much later.
> 
> Electrical system will be 6 volts positive ground, workable but not
> common today.
> 
> Gerald J.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:23:40 -0800
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #163 - Rodent ravaged wire

Gerald:
   As a biologist, I find it fascinating that mice and rats seem to be 
immune to ventricular fibrillation. Have you followed up on this in the 
bio lit? Certainly at some voltage, they would die - what? combust? or 
....
    Second subject altogether - the newly constructed bathroom in my '56 
Bubble has aluminum walls on 2 sides. The shower pan which comprises 
the entire floor of the bathroom, is made of copper and folds and comes 
up to attach to the walls - probably 18" up the Al sides and the side 
of the trailer (which makes up a third wall of the bathroom, the 
remainder being Cu also. The Cu is attached using a few regular rivets 
(sheet metal?) and DAP adhesive and Velkum. What is the potential for 
electrolysis here?
Jo Ann Wheatley, Ph.D. (in Entomology)

On 19, Feb 2004, at 8:44 AM, Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer 
wrote:

> Mice and rats seem to be immune to ventricular fibrillation, the most
> common cause of electrocution death. I've tried and failed to kill mice
> with electricity (even up to 1000 volts with their feet in a brine
> solution).
>
> Loose connections which are guaranteed with the aluminum wire used in
> the late 60s are a much more likely source of fires. Those bare 
> aluminum
> wires need to be connected only with lugs or devices made for use with
> aluminum wire. Otherwise all those connections will work loose and lead
> to excessive heating.
>
> Wires touching may not make a sturdy enough short to blow a fuse or 
> trip
> a breaker but may spit hot metal balls to ignite nearby materials. I've
> documented fires started that way a few times.
>
> I prefer my wiring to be in steel conduit. Then rodents can't get to 
> it.
> Its quite easy to replace any wires damaged by vibration or by severe
> overloads, and the steel contains any magnetic fields (though I have 
> not
> yet found any evidence of the magnetic fields from normal wiring and
> appliances being any danger).
>
> Gerald J.
> -- 
> Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
> Reproduction by permission only.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:43:26 -0800
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #163 - Rodent ravaged wire

Apologies to the List - that was supposed to be a private message to 
Dr. G.J.
Jo Ann

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:00:40 EST
From: KELLEYMT@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #162

Anyone out there know of a source for replacement windows (other than our 
local glass replacement shop that wants to charge us an arm and a leg)? Perhaps a 
reputable salvage dealer, or someone selling parts? We have a 69 Safari, 23' 
with a newly-shattered rear window. We are in the process of renovating, and 
went out tonight to take on another chore when we discovered the entire rear 
window in a million pieces (it faces a vacant pasture, so go figure!) Many 
thanks in advance. 

(By the way, I love this list just the way it is! Thanks to those who take 
the time to make it possible.)

Molly Kelley
69 Safari

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:28:48 EST
From: SHMossLanding@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Bargman #6 Lens

Hi, I am seeking one Bargman #6 lens for a 1958 Traveler restoration. If 
anyone has one they would be willing to sell, I would appreciate it. If anyone 
needs a photo, contact me offline and I will send one to them.
           Thanks in advance,

                   Chuck & Lynn
                   1965 Overlander
                   1958 Traveler

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:55:18 -0600
From: "Tom Patterson" <tommyjoe@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Silver Trailer Social - May 13-16 - Calistoga California

I can recommend this rally, which I attended last year.  Truly, it is an
interesting outing with the various makes of vintage trailers.  Sadly I
won't be able to attend this year, but I did enjoy it last year.

I hear that Doug Keister will be giving a powerpoint presentation of his
forthcoming book "Silver Palaces" at the event this year.  That should alone
be worthwhile viewing.

- -Tom

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arlen & Shirley" <globetrotter64@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 1:36 PM
Subject: [VAL] Silver Trailer Social - May 13-16 - Calistoga California


> Just an short announcement to let the list readers know about the "Silver
> Trailer Social"; a rally for pre-1970 trailers to be held May 13-16 in
> Calistoga California (an hour north of San Francisco).
>
> This is an event for pre 1970 trailers - not just Airstreams. Since this
is
> not a WBCCI event, it was not included in the VAC calendar this year.  The
> event is not sponsored by any club.  This is the second year that we have
> hosted this "just for fun" event.
>
> I need to give the campground a count by the middle of  March.  If you are
> interested in attending you can find detailed information and the
> registration form on the web at:
> http://globetrotter64.home.att.net/gather.htm
>
> Arlen & Shirley Manning

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:58:51 -0600
From: "Tom Patterson" <tommyjoe@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 39 Foot Airstream on EBAY

I do try and place pictures in some of the postings when the referenced
picture will be gone, and not available for viewing at some later date.  I
will be doing so for this item in the next day or so, but for now, you can
see what is out in some of the older messages by checking an earlier message
this month.

See http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/MHonArc/msg00175.html

- -Tom

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: <SHMossLanding@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 9:10 PM
Subject: [VAL] 39 Foot Airstream on EBAY


> Check out this Airstream, unbelieveable!!!!!!!  EBAY item  #2460807223
>
>
>
>
>
>                                             Chuck

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:26:46 -0800 (PST)
From: M Tate <firebirdesprit@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] rear access door

Good evening all,
I wonder if anyone has had to replace an access door.
I have a 65 Overlander that needs a rear access door,
and I am having a really hard time getting a response
from the company I ordered it from about 5 weeks ago.
If anyone has any suggestions, they would be greatly
appreciated. I realize that it will most likely have
to be fabricated, this is where I am now and cannot
get any answer as to when I can expect my door, even
though my credit card has been charged. I think I
might get the card company involved. Sorry to run on,
just kinda frustrated. Thanks to all.

=====
Mark, Pennie and Rachel
'65 Overlander Land Yacht

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End of VAL Digest V1 #164
*************************


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