The Vintage Airstream E-mail ListDigest Archive Files
VAL Digest V1 #154
VAL Digest Tuesday, February 10 2004 Volume 01 : Number 154
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Topics in Today's Digest:
[VAL] Jackson Center - tour director forum - Homecoming Festival 2004?
[VAL] No PVC, huh?
[VAL] Re: Jackson Center VAC Rally
[VAL] Re: Gray tank
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #153
[VAL] Floor insulation
RE: [VAL] No PVC, huh?
Re: [VAL] No PVC, huh?
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #153 - PVC
[VAL] Another recent visit
[VAL] Pull-out leaf table
[VAL] 12v wiring
Re: [VAL] Pull-out leaf table
Re: [VAL] 12v wiring
Re: [VAL] 12v wiring
Re: [VAL] 12v wiring
[VAL] Fridge questions
Re: [VAL] Fridge questions
RE: [VAL] Fridge questions
Re: [VAL] Fridge questions
[VAL] Frame Seperation
Re: [VAL] Another recent visit
Re: [VAL] Pull-out leaf table
RE: [VAL] No PVC, huh?
Re: [VAL] Pull-out leaf table
[VAL] Lost the archives....
Re: [VAL] Frame Seperation
Re: [VAL] Lost the archives....
Re: [VAL] Frame Seperation
Re: [VAL] Fridge questions
Re: [VAL] Frame Seperation
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 23:18:50 -0800
From: "Richard McFarland" <estatewagons@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: [VAL] Jackson Center - tour director forum - Homecoming Festival 2004?
That is an excellent idea, and perhaps could be
incorporated into the Homecoming Event that Airstream, Inc.
already has scheduled for June 2-6, 2004 in Jackson Center,
Ohio. I imagine some old time employee(s) would enjoy
attending this event and answering questions. Some details
on the Homecoming can be found here:
http://www.airstream.com/airstreamer/events/homecoming_2003.html
Why not forward that suggestion to the Airstream Homecoming
Events coordinator?
Fred Coldwell
VAC Archive Historian
- ---------------------------
Thanks everyone for the input and suggestions for contacting Jackson Center
regarding the possibility of .
Fred- thanks for the link - I've pasted together a message of the letter
that I responded to - along with my response - and several subsequent
responses - in hopes that it might catch the attention of the Homecoming
Festival coordinator!
Let's keep our fingers crossed!
RL
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 05:49:52 -0500
From: "Beekman" <beek@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] No PVC, huh?
Tim Shephard wrote:
>You should not used regular PVC at all for drinking water. You may use
CPVC
>which is made for potible (drinkable) hot and cold water supply lines. I
>know most people here recommend PEX. However because of cost,
availabliltiy
>and easy instalation, I used CPVC.
This is all fine in principle, but chances are that every RV park you visit
has all its underground water lines run in PVC. The water supply line to
your home, if it was installed in the last 30 years, is probably PVC. I
believe that PEX is the best choice for trailer water lines, but we won't
escape PVC for cold water delivery lines anytime soon. Miles and miles of it
are being installed in the US every day. Let's hope it's not poisoning us
because it's everywhere.
Beekman
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 07:33:31 -0500
From: "Patricia V. Raimondo" <praimond@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Re: Jackson Center VAC Rally
Great Idea RL! Plan it soon and maybe they'll get Pearl finished! I've
been to the plant several times and the camping area is really nice.
Four big circles that form wagon wheels for full hookups. It has a
large grassy area, under huge trees for shade with grills for BBQ. The
property is large so there is plenty of room for a large rally. And of
course, the facilities are amazing! The hanger where they build the new
trailers and Motor Homes is where they give the tours. The trailers
form a circle around the edge of the inside where they move forward to
each station as they are being built. The motor homes are in the
middle. You can see every stage of development and talk to the
employees as you walk thru. The service area is another huge hanger in
itself. Anyone going would be amazed at the whole opperation and
everyone who works for A/S is super nice.
Plan it soon!
Patti
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 09:29:22 -0500
From: "Scott Scheuermann" <s.l.scheuermann@xxxxxxxxxx.att.net>
Subject: [VAL] Re: Gray tank
Jim,
The new wash water tank (gray tank) is mounted midway between the rear
bumper and the axle. It is as far forward as the technician said he could
get it. We were hoping to get it so that it would mount under the floor but
above the belly pan. Unfortunately the drain on my tub is too low to the
ground to allow this, so the tank protrudes through the skin to allow the
tub to drain. The tank is securely attached to the frame. I do not know the
volume, but it appears to be in the vicinity of 15 to 20 gallons. My goal
was only to provide enough capacity to hold one night's miserly water usage
for those rare times I am parked at a Wal-Mart, or at the annual rendezvous
to parade into the International Rally, which always seems to be at a
parking lot.
Scott
> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 09:26:15 -0500
> From: "Jim Stewart" <9stewart@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> Subject: Re: [VAL] trailer repairs
>
> Where was the grey water tank installed? How large of tank were you able
to
> get?
> Jim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:31:44 EST
From: KELLEYMT@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #153
Stuart, We too just put down the self adhesive vinyl tiles from Home Depot.
Ours were not Armstrong, but according to our saleperson, of comparable quality
(sorry, the name eludes me.) They went down wonderfully, and we finished the
job feeling very satisfied (and impressed) with our amatuer work.
However, in our case, our gloating was short-lived. 24 hours after
installation, the tiles shrunk and most were loose! Since we followed manufacturers
instructions to the letter (and also spent days on subfloor preparation) we called
Home Depot, then the Manufacturers Rep. We live in the Midwest with avg
temps of 20-30 degrees. The Manu. Rep said that it was likely due to the cold
weather -- recommended that the tiles should have been kept above 65 degrees for
48-72 hours after installation to allow the floor to seal (he admitted the
instructions do not say this). He suggested we pull up the tiles and re-install
using a thin coat of Armstrong's adhesive, which we did. This time, we went to
great lengths to keep the floor above 65 degrees for 72 hours+. This time, upon
re-exposure to the cold, we had the same shrinkage and still a few (not
nearly as many) loose tiles.
We have made peace with the floor, as we must pick and choose our battles in
life. We are planning a trip to Florida in March and spring promises to follow
soon after; we are holding all hopes (as is the Manufacturers Rep) that with
the warmth, will come better adherence to the subfloor. In the meantime, we
are doing our best to keep it clean.
We went with oak quarter-round along the bottom since we only had straight
edges to contend with (we didn't replace the bathroom vinyl.) All in all, the
floor really does look great and despite our frustrations, was a relatively easy
way to go. I suspect you will be more successful in your efforts since you
don't experience the wide fluctuations in temperatures. Good luck!
Molly Kelley
'69 Safari
In a message dated 2/9/2004 12:01:37 AM Central Standard Time,
valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com writes:
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 02:44:39 EST
From: RESORARCHITECT@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re:Vinyl tiles
Hello!
I spent much of today and some of last week slowly installing the Armstrong
"Parque" style self adhesive vinyl tiles I bought at Home depot. Has anyone
used these tiles? I finally wised up and Bonnie's hair dryer out to warm the
old
tiles up so I could remove them. Some came off easily and others seemed
welded
to the floor. I used wd-40 to clean up my hands after this effort. It works
but leaves your hands smelling like the wd-40! I put the tiles under where
the
new propane hot water heater will go. Nothing in the hot water heater
instructions cautions against that.
I will use white pvc plastic for the plumbing unless someone says that was
not the way to go. I bought some vinyl"base" to replace a small strip that
went
around the curve of the tub and then mitered to the right and went under the
toilet. I experimented with the hair dryer tonite to practice making the
mitered 90* bend. It's not going to be easily done. The adhesive on the back
gets
all over your hands even though the paper is still on. Thanks, Stuart Resor,
Cardiff Ca.
Molly Kelley
ADSA
PH: 217/485-3441
Fax: 217/485-3922
email: kelleymt@xxxxxxxxxx.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 08:34:56 -0700
From: "Jim Cooper" <jcchome@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Floor insulation
I have the skin off the bottom of the Tradewind, and plan to
re-insulate. What suggestions do you have for holding insulation up
against the floor? I haven't decided on fiberglass or rigid foam.
Before long the temperature will get above cold and I will have to face
this project.
Best Regards,
Jim
jcchome@xxxxxxxxxx.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 08:47:14 -0800
From: "Tim Shephard" <timshephard@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: RE: [VAL] No PVC, huh?
I'm no plumber but I think the difference is running hot water.
Are they running hot water through all these lines?
- -Tim
Tim Shephard wrote:
>You should not used regular PVC at all for drinking water. You may use
CPVC
>which is made for potible (drinkable) hot and cold water supply lines. I
>know most people here recommend PEX. However because of cost,
availabliltiy
>and easy instalation, I used CPVC.
This is all fine in principle, but chances are that every RV park you visit
has all its underground water lines run in PVC. The water supply line to
your home, if it was installed in the last 30 years, is probably PVC. I
believe that PEX is the best choice for trailer water lines, but we won't
escape PVC for cold water delivery lines anytime soon. Miles and miles of it
are being installed in the US every day. Let's hope it's not poisoning us
because it's everywhere.
Beekman
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 10:32:25 -0700
From: "Roger Hightower" <rwhigh@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] No PVC, huh?
It doesn't really make any difference if it's hot or cold water. The main
thing against using PVC in a trailer is that the lines are subject to
constant vibration and flexing. Copper and PEX can handle that, while PVC
won't take much abuse. Just asking for leaks.
Roger
Roger Hightower
WBCCI #4165,VAC
1975 31' Sovereign
Mesa, AZ
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 11:39:00 -0600
From: waymark1@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #153 - PVC
PVC (and CPVC) splits along the length of the pipe if it bursts, unlike
copper, which pops in one spot (the last place in a pipe run that froze).
The poly (PEX) pipe stretches slightly, which usually will accommodate
freezing, especially if there is no water pressure in it when it freezes.
Poly can be joined wither with crimps, which are cheap and trim but use
an expensive crimping tool, or with compression fittings, which are
expensive and bulky but require no special tools.
Frozen PVC is replaced everywhere there was water in it while frozen
copper is repaired at the spots that are popped. PVC (and CPVC) are
rather brittle, especially when they are a few years old. I've replaced a
fair amount of PVC and CPVC under rental units that froze and under
rental units that had the copper stolen.
Of course we shouldn't let our pipes freeze, but.....
Al
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:06:05 -0800
> From: "Tim Shephard" <timshephard@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Re:Vinyl tiles
>
> Stuart.
>
> You should not used regular PVC at all for drinking water. You may use
CPVC which is made for potable (drinkable) hot and cold water supply
lines. I know most people here recommend PEX. However because of cost,
availability and easy installation, I used CPVC.
>
> You can read about it on my website it if your interested.
>
> http://www.telecom-pros.com/tim/airstream/plumbing.htm
>
> - -Tim
> http://www.telecom-pros.com/tim/tim
> eFax (508) 590-0302
>
>
> > Hi Stuart -
> >
> > PEX (cross-linked polyethylene) is the material of choice in plumbing
upgrades these days, both in conventional homes and rvs.... pvc is great
stuff, and very easy to use, but in mobile applications where it can be
subjected to vibration, stress, and temperature extremes, the fittings
and joins need to be perfectly sealed, using the pvc primer and 'glue'
for the type you're using (e.g. 'schedule 40')... the pex fittings tend
to be a little more expensive, but i prefer to use conventional
brass/copper compression fittings anyhow... in difficult to reach places,
you'll find that pex is a LOT easier to work with.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:11:54 -0800
From: Glyn Judson <glynjudson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Another recent visit
All,
In my continuing effort to bring my 1969 Caravel back to its original
state, I had the pleasure a few weeks ago of being invited to see Bill
Kerfoot's lovely 1979 Safari and to see the operation of the mechanized
Gaucho.
Bill and his son Rick welcomed me to their place in Orange CA and made
me feel right at home while they cut me loose in their Airstream to
photograph and sketch their factory installation. He even Xeroxed the parts
list with exploded view.
Once again, I've been impressed with all of you friendly folks on the
List. Does it ever end? I don't think so!
I've got a shipment of original, used 1969 Airstream gear coming to me
in four large boxes that should arrive today from the east coast of Florida
and an intact, complete 1969 Gaucho and one cushion heading this way from
Arizona about mid March, so the quest goes on in other directions.
What does the original overhead light in the shower/head look like?
Mine appears to be a recent installation and looks almost new.
I recently bought a super duper sandblaster on eBay and have begun to
remove all the black paint on the tongue, electric jack and rear bumper. I
even got a set of the original H&H Power Jack stickers complete with the
vertical racing stripes that I'll apply after the silver paint goes on.
Whooee!
Thanks all for the help,
Glyn Judson
Santa Monica CA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:27:36 -0800
From: Glyn Judson <glynjudson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Pull-out leaf table
All,
Dose anybody have a lead on the pull-out two leaf table fitted to my
1969 Caravel? I seem to have been able to locate most everything else, but
the table continues to elude me.
I could make my own but that misses the point of my wanting to return
our Caravel to its original state. Was the table the same for a few years
before and after? I might be able to expand my search to other years if
that's the case.
Is it that blonde wood grain Formica I see on the front of my Dometic
and the bi-fold doors in the shower?
Thanks,
Glyn
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:28:09 -0700
From: "Stan Truitt" <stan.truitt@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] 12v wiring
hi all
12vdc current continues to baffle me at times. my understanding is that my
trailer (1966 safari) is a negative ground 12v with the white dc wiring being
negative and black being positive. there may also be other colors of positive
wiring (blue and orange) in the trailer but that the white is always negative.
this weekend, i wired up a 12v auto radio and blew the radio fuse. upon
looking closely, i discovered that i had wired the ground wire of the radio to
the positive side of the 12v. i reversed the wires, replaced and fuse and it
worked just fine. the only reason i bring this up is that i was running
speaker wire behind the rear gaucho and water pump area. it is a fairly new
atwood pump installed by a shop for the PO. i noticed that the red wire (+)
from the pump was wired to the white wire (-) of the trailer and the black
wire (-) of the pump wired to the black wire (+) of the trailer. further the
red wire from the pump also had an inline fuse, something i always thought
should be on the positive side. now, is this not in reverse of how it should
be? does it make any difference in this circumstance? i have turned the pump
on for just a second and it powered up. i cannot (do not wish to) test it
further as the water system has been winterized.
confused in colorado
harry
66 safari
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 16:36:10 -0500
From: Daisy Welch <jtdjtd@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Pull-out leaf table
I have a pull out table that I picked up at the International. It's made
of wood, and I don't remember what it came out of. I decided not to use
it because it is heavy.
You can have it if it will work for you. If someone who has your trailer
can give me some identifying facts, I will go look at it.
Daisy
Glyn Judson wrote:
> All,
>
> Dose anybody have a lead on the pull-out two leaf table fitted to my
> 1969 Caravel? I seem to have been able to locate most everything else, but
> the table continues to elude me.
>
> I could make my own but that misses the point of my wanting to return
> our Caravel to its original state. Was the table the same for a few years
> before and after? I might be able to expand my search to other years if
> that's the case.
>
> Is it that blonde wood grain Formica I see on the front of my Dometic
> and the bi-fold doors in the shower?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Glyn
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 17:13:46 -0800
From: "chyde" <chyde@primelink1.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12v wiring
> hi all
> 12vdc current continues to baffle me at times. my understanding is that my
> trailer (1966 safari) is a negative ground 12v with the white dc wiring
being
> negative and black being positive. there may also be other colors of
positive
> wiring (blue and orange) in the trailer but that the white is always
negative.
> this weekend, i wired up a 12v auto radio and blew the radio fuse. upon
> looking closely, i discovered that i had wired the ground wire of the
radio to
> the positive side of the 12v.
Harry,
Hook up a digital volt meter to the wires. If you suspect that the white
wire is positive, connect the red test lead to it and the black test lead to
the other one. If the meter shows a negative (-) voltage, then the white
wire is the ground.
Colin
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 14:44:46 -0800
From: "Gary Quamen" <g_quamen@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12v wiring
> hi all
> 12vdc current continues to baffle me at times. my understanding is that my
> trailer (1966 safari) is a negative ground 12v with the white dc wiring
being
> negative and black being positive. there may also be other colors of
positive
> wiring (blue and orange) in the trailer but that the white is always
negative.
> ........it is a fairly new
> atwood pump installed by a shop for the PO. i noticed that the red wire
(+)
> from the pump was wired to the white wire (-) of the trailer and the black
> wire (-) of the pump wired to the black wire (+) of the trailer. further
the
> red wire from the pump also had an inline fuse, something i always thought
> should be on the positive side. now, is this not in reverse of how it
should
> be? does it make any difference in this circumstance.
> confused in colorado
> harry
> 66 safari
Hey Confused Harry:
If yours is like my '67 the power to that pump is via a switch above the
fridge. Then there is a hunk of romex from the switch, through the wall,
popping out right near the pump. The pump should have the fuse in the same
wire as the switch, ie, the hot one. Take a meter and see which of the
romex wires is hot (12V). That's really all that matters. If you find that
it's the "wrong" color, the hot one being white and the ground black, and
you can't stand that, you can get into the wiring back at the switch. The
ground wire from the pump should be the one from the motor end of the pump
only. Should be black. The 12V should go to the business end of the pump
into the pressure switch housing. Should be red. I would expect to see the
fuse in this wire. I'll send you a photo of the mess I have offline to
further confuse you.
Later,
GQ '67 Safari
4020 in CA
PS: If this pump that you have looks like a sewing machine, all bets are
off.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:42:57 -0600
From: "Dean L." <dean@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12v wiring
If you are having this kind of trouble You Need to get
a simple volt meter and Learn how to Run it well.
Every time you hook up ANYTHING Test the feed
wires and then test them Again.
You could have water pumps running backward
and not pumping well or you could start a fire.
The main thing is to learn how to read that meter.
Electrons do not care what color the wire is.
But, Radio's and other appliances do care.
See You On The Road
Dean L.
WBCCI 2486
On Feb 9, 2004, at 3:28 PM, Stan Truitt wrote:
> hi all
> 12vdc current continues to baffle me at times. my understanding is
> that my
> trailer (1966 safari) is a negative ground 12v with the white dc
> wiring being
> negative and black being positive. there may also be other colors of
> positive
> wiring (blue and orange) in the trailer but that the white is always
> negative.
> this weekend, i wired up a 12v auto radio and blew the radio fuse. upon
> looking closely, i discovered that i had wired the ground wire of the
> radio to
> the positive side of the 12v. i reversed the wires, replaced and fuse
> and it
> worked just fine. the only reason i bring this up is that i was running
> speaker wire behind the rear gaucho and water pump area. it is a
> fairly new
> atwood pump installed by a shop for the PO. i noticed that the red
> wire (+)
> from the pump was wired to the white wire (-) of the trailer and the
> black
> wire (-) of the pump wired to the black wire (+) of the trailer.
> further the
> red wire from the pump also had an inline fuse, something i always
> thought
> should be on the positive side. now, is this not in reverse of how it
> should
> be? does it make any difference in this circumstance? i have turned
> the pump
> on for just a second and it powered up. i cannot (do not wish to) test
> it
> further as the water system has been winterized.
> confused in colorado
> harry
> 66 safari
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:09:05 -0500
From: "nickruthwarren" <nickruthwarren@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Fridge questions
Hello all,
I need advice on the fridge front. I have a 1961 Tradewind that has the
original Dometic fridge in it, this fridge appears to be gas only. Having
tried everything we can to get it running, we can't. There are so few parts
available we are having to let it go (leaves me v.sad as I like the look).
Now, I happen to have an under-the-counter fridge in the house which would
fit in nicely. Can I put a regular fridge in there and just plug it in?
All advice gratefully recieved,
Ruth Warren & the Tin Can Clan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:26:18 -0700
From: Brad Norgaard <stream2699@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Fridge questions
Hi Ruth,
Yes, you can put in a regular 120 volt fridge. However, by not having one
that works off propane you are limiting your camping places to those that
have electrical hookups. For me, this is very limiting. You could use a
generator when out in the wild country, but I like to get away from the
noise as well.
Where are you located? Surely there is someone with parts for your original
fridge. Maybe the parts that are not functioning properly can be replaced
with a new component of parts instead of just the one or a few of the
non-functioning parts. Don't toss the old one aside just yet.
There used to be a RV-only fridge guy here in town but he retired end of
last year. Wish I could locate him and all of his vintage fridge parts. Some
of the larger metro areas must have places like this guy.
Brad Norgaard
Phoenix
'59 Trade Wind Twin
VAC #2699, TCT
on 2/9/04 5:09 PM, nickruthwarren at nickruthwarren@xxxxxxxxxx.net wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I need advice on the fridge front. I have a 1961 Tradewind that has the
> original Dometic fridge in it, this fridge appears to be gas only. Having
> tried everything we can to get it running, we can't. There are so few parts
> available we are having to let it go (leaves me v.sad as I like the look).
>
> Now, I happen to have an under-the-counter fridge in the house which would
> fit in nicely. Can I put a regular fridge in there and just plug it in?
>
> All advice gratefully recieved,
>
> Ruth Warren & the Tin Can Clan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:47:35 -0500
From: "Peter Ryner" <pryner@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Fridge questions
Hope you haven't gotten rid of the fridge yet. I had the same problem with
my '60 22' safari. The valve was shot. I sent it to my dad in Florida and
had the fridge changed over from gas to electric. The company put an
electric heating unit on the fridge which heated the original amonia like
the original gas did. Works great! Sorry, its been too many years to
remember the company's name, but if you're interested, contact me off list
and I'll ask my dad if he remembers. It was a dometic dealer in the Orlando
area. I love having the original fridge in the trailer vice one of the
newer models even if they work a little better. Keeps the originality.
Good Luck
Pete
- -----Original Message-----
From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com
[mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com]On Behalf Of nickruthwarren
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 7:09 PM
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Fridge questions
Hello all,
I need advice on the fridge front. I have a 1961 Tradewind that has the
original Dometic fridge in it, this fridge appears to be gas only. Having
tried everything we can to get it running, we can't. There are so few parts
available we are having to let it go (leaves me v.sad as I like the look).
Now, I happen to have an under-the-counter fridge in the house which would
fit in nicely. Can I put a regular fridge in there and just plug it in?
All advice gratefully recieved,
Ruth Warren & the Tin Can Clan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 21:07:35 EST
From: JAuman2346@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Fridge questions
If you live by an Amish community they probably have someone that can fix
your refrigerator. We have a large Amish community just south of Akron, Ohio and
their is an Amish man that can fix gas refrigerators. Check with any Amish
person and they will know if one is available in an Amish area near you. Best of
luck. jauman2346@xxxxxxxxxx.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 10:16:57 -0600
From: "William Durkee" <bdkli@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Frame Seperation
It is obvious that the 69 Sovereign is suffering from frame seperation. The
bumper is hanging down about 1 inch below the body. If I step lightly on
the bumper it will move seperatly from the body. When does it become
mandatory to fix the problem? Can I continue to use the trailer? Will this
cause further damage?
There is another repair I heard of Frame Stiffeners. Is this a good idea?
Is it required? What is to be expected it Stiffeners are not added?
Bill Durkee
1969 Sovereign
03 Ram 1500 Quad
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 19:00:59 -0800
From: William Kerfoot <wkerfoot@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Another recent visit
Glyn Judson wrote:
> All,
>
> In my continuing effort to bring my 1969 Caravel back to its original
>state, I had the pleasure a few weeks ago of being invited to see Bill
>Kerfoot's lovely 1979 Safari and to see the operation of the mechanized
>Gaucho.
>
>
No problem Glyn. Hope you are able to put the Caravel together the way
you want.
Bill Kerfoot
WBCCI #5223
1979 23' Safari
1973 Dodge W200 Powerwagon
1977 Lincoln Continental
Orange, CA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 19:08:17 -0800
From: William Kerfoot <wkerfoot@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Pull-out leaf table
Glyn Judson wrote:
> All,
>
> Dose anybody have a lead on the pull-out two leaf table fitted to my
>1969 Caravel? I seem to have been able to locate most everything else, but
>the table continues to elude me.
>
>
Glyn,
Does the table you want look like the one in my trailer. If so, I can
send Daisy a picture.
Bill Kerfoot
WBCCI #5223
1979 23' Safari
1973 Dodge Powerwagon W200
1977 Lincoln Continental
Orange, CA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 21:24:29 -0500
From: "Edward Emerick" <EEMERICK@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: RE: [VAL] No PVC, huh?
Hello,
Boy am I glad I installed copper in the 59. Overall it has been easy to
work with, soft copper tubing, one piece back to front for the cold &
hot water. It molded to the wall curves and flexes where I need it to.
It's cheaper than PEXx by a long shot and if I can sweat copper anyone
can! The tools are cheaper too. Copper will take cold or hot and I
winterize copper by the compressed air method and had great success.
Copper the American way..............
Ed
WBCCI/VAC 4425
68 Sovereign (it came with copper)
59 Traveler (so did it)
- -----Original Message-----
From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com
[mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com] On Behalf Of Roger Hightower
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 12:32 PM
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] No PVC, huh?
It doesn't really make any difference if it's hot or cold water. The
main thing against using PVC in a trailer is that the lines are subject
to constant vibration and flexing. Copper and PEX can handle that,
while PVC won't take much abuse. Just asking for leaks.
Roger
Roger Hightower
WBCCI #4165,VAC
1975 31' Sovereign
Mesa, AZ
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 19:21:45 -0800
From: Glyn Judson <glynjudson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Pull-out leaf table
Bill,
I really don't know as I don't know what I'm really looking for but it
couldn't hurt.
Thanks,
Glyn
> From: William Kerfoot <wkerfoot@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
> Reply-To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 19:08:17 -0800
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Pull-out leaf table
>
> Glyn Judson wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>> Dose anybody have a lead on the pull-out two leaf table fitted to my
>> 1969 Caravel? I seem to have been able to locate most everything else, but
>> the table continues to elude me.
>>
>>
> Glyn,
>
> Does the table you want look like the one in my trailer. If so, I can
> send Daisy a picture.
>
> Bill Kerfoot
> WBCCI #5223
> 1979 23' Safari
> 1973 Dodge Powerwagon W200
> 1977 Lincoln Continental
> Orange, CA
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 23:20:18 -0500
From: Daisy Welch <jtdjtd@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Lost the archives....
OK, I can't remember where the site is that has all the years and models
with pictures.....
I want to see if the table I scooped up off the ground at the
International in VT is a '69.
Or, who's got a 69 Caravel who can take a picture ?
Daisy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 21:33:01 -0700
From: Charlie/Betty Burke <cbburke@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Frame Seperation
Bill,
Frame separation is not a problem to be solved by frame stiffeners. The frame
stiffener was primarily for 73-76 coaches with overload problems caused by the
addition of the gray water tank to the rear of the coach.
The problem you describe is addressed in another Service Bulletin concerning
frame separation. The problem had to due with the washers used on the bolts that
go through the floor bow where is crosses over the box frame rail. The bulletin
applied primarily to 68-70 coaches.
The washers/spacers were too small and would eventually allow the bolt to pull
through allowing the floor bow and the body attached to it to separate from the
frame rail. The service bulletin describes a method to access and replace the
bolt/spacers to pull everything back together. If you have rear compartment
access to the point were the bow and rail intersect it is preferred to make the
repair from the inside by remove inside skin to access the bolt. Otherwise it is
necessary to open up the outside skin, make the repair and patch the access
point with what was to be called "elephant ears" for the shape.
The service bulletin is #1 in the modern series. With frame separation as #2 in
the series.
While I do not have access to an online copy I believe someone on this list
serve does.
Charlie
William Durkee wrote:
> It is obvious that the 69 Sovereign is suffering from frame seperation. The
> bumper is hanging down about 1 inch below the body. If I step lightly on
> the bumper it will move seperatly from the body. When does it become
> mandatory to fix the problem? Can I continue to use the trailer? Will this
> cause further damage?
>
> There is another repair I heard of Frame Stiffeners. Is this a good idea?
> Is it required? What is to be expected it Stiffeners are not added?
>
> Bill Durkee
> 1969 Sovereign
> 03 Ram 1500 Quad
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Create your own personal Web page with the info you use most, at My MSN.
> http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 20:48:40 -0800
From: William Kerfoot <wkerfoot@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Lost the archives....
Daisy,
Try this:
http://www.vintageairstream.com/archives/index.html
RJ Dial has the site, former webmaster for the Vintage Airstream Club site.
Bill Kerfoot
WBCCI #5223
1979 23' Safari
1973 Dodge W200 Powerwagon
1977 Lincoln Continental
Orange, CA
Daisy Welch wrote:
> OK, I can't remember where the site is that has all the years and
> models with pictures.....
>
> I want to see if the table I scooped up off the ground at the
> International in VT is a '69.
>
> Or, who's got a 69 Caravel who can take a picture ?
>
> Daisy
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 23:49:26 -0500
From: Chris Elliott <celliott@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Frame Seperation
To add to Charlies diagnosis , I might add that its often a symptom of a rotten
floor in the rear of the trailer , causing the bolts to pull thru the u channel
connecting the body to frame , and not nessesarily limited to 31 footers or trailers
with gray water tanks
Chris
Charlie/Betty Burke wrote:
> Bill,
>
> Frame separation is not a problem to be solved by frame stiffeners. The frame
> stiffener was primarily for 73-76 coaches with overload problems caused by the
> addition of the gray water tank to the rear of the coach.
>
> The problem you describe is addressed in another Service Bulletin concerning
> frame separation. The problem had to due with the washers used on the bolts that
> go through the floor bow where is crosses over the box frame rail. The bulletin
> applied primarily to 68-70 coaches.
> The washers/spacers were too small and would eventually allow the bolt to pull
> through allowing the floor bow and the body attached to it to separate from the
> frame rail. Charlie
>
> William Durkee wrote:
>
> > It is obvious that the 69 Sovereign is suffering from frame seperation. The
> > bumper is hanging down about 1 inch below the body. If I step lightly on
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 23:19:30 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Fridge questions
There is a company in SW Iowa that rebuilds RV refrigerators. Used to be
at Winterset, then their shop burned and they moved to maybe Corning or
Creston. I'll have to do a search to find them again. Did that last
year. And it might be in my archives.
Found it:
> Subject:
> Re: Winterset repairs
> Date:
> Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:48:33 -0500
> From:
> Dan Weeks <theprofileco@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> To:
> <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
>
>
> Jeez, 1996! Are you SURE you're not an elephant?
>
> Thanks, Gerald! I'll look them up!
>
> Dan
>
> > From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> > Organization: Gerald N. Johnson
> > Reply-To: geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net
> > Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:38:30 -0500
> > To: Jeffrey Miller <bsshrink@xxxxxxxxxx.com>, theprofileco@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> > Cc: VACList@xxxxxxxxxx.net
> > Subject: Re: Winterset repairs
> >
> > http://www.rv-news.com/july1996/news.htm (dated July 1996) says:
> >
> >> Midwest Products Finds a New Home After Plant Fire
> >>
> >>
> >> Midwest Products formerly located in Winterset IA, has moved their
> >> operation to Corning, IA, after a fire destroyed the factory on April
> >> 26.
> >>
> >> Midwest Products is a remanufacturer of RV refrigerator cooling
> >> units and distributor of related parts. Roger Gifford, CEO said
> >> "Leaving Winterset is hard, but the existing 25,500 sq. ft. plant in
> >> Corning will assure a quick entry back into productions. We will
> >> modernize equipment, computerize the office and shipping
> >> departments for faster service. We are restocking the heating
> >> elements and refrigerator parts now and will be into production on
> >> the cooling units very soon." The new address is: Midwest Products,
> >> 1102 Ave. of Industry, Corning, IA 50841. Phone 515-322-4227,
> >> 800-331-1081; fax 515-322-3283.
> >
> > Switchboard says their area code has changed.
> >
> > Midwest Products Inc
> > 1102 Avenue of Industries
> > Corning, IA 50841-8410
> > Phone: (641)322-4227
> >
> > I am NOT an elephant, just remember like one!
> >
> > Gerald J.
> > --
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 00:54:12 -0500
From: "Mr. Joy H. Hansen" <joytbrew@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Frame Seperation
William,
I have a '69 Safari and the condition you describe had more to do with
water/corrosion than anything else. If you notice considerable rust on the
skid rails, feel the floor around the holding tank. It's my opinion that
the condition is caused when NO seal is between the plate on top of the
bumper frame allows water to run back onto the wood floor. Any rivet, etc.
would fail under continual soaking with water and the rotting floor
exacerbates the problem. If your Airstream spent it's entire life in a high
desert, then none of my experiences are applicable. Or, the Sovergn is in
the 30 foot class and didn't have reinforcing plates mounted aft of the
axles, the sag is most likely from bad engineering.
You asked if you could use the Airstream without damage. I would say that
the structural damage you will do could ruin it. All the structural
components act to gather to make a sound structure. Remove one, and it's
like a house of cards. Broken skin rivets loose stringers, bows, and
buckled skin, etc. Like damage from running with sagging axles. '69 is the
last year that the Henchen axle torsion rubber deteriorates. Sometime in
'69 there was a change. Mine happened to have the trashy wimpy torsion
rubber. The new axle is waiting to be installed. It's a Dexter axle with
the large brake drums, oval magnets, and a parking brake mechanism. Bad
axles, like unbalanced wheels will destroy the Airstream structure.
Most likely, you'll find that the floor is rotted across the entire rear.
The floor is sandwiched between the iron cross brace on the bottom(welded to
the frame at both ends) and an inverted aluminum "u" channel on the top.
When the floor is gone, it's possible for the rivets to prevent total
separation. With the amount of separation, you should be able to feel the
rivets. There are also bolts that protrude through the lower cross brace.
These do not have anything to do with holding the body to the frame! The
floor is bolted to the bottom cross brace as it is on all out riggers. The
inverted "U" channel is "screwed" to the floor in most areas. Across the
front and rear, clinch rivets through the entire sandwich were used. The
frame was installed in sections. Where these sections join on the floor, I
found huge gaps that allowed vermin to enter the monocoque insulation
through out the trailer. :(
Another common construction failure is when the trim strip around the bottom
of the trailer hides the fact that the skin stops just above the floor and
the banana curves direct the drips to the floor. More continual rot. I
added a splash shield to prevent this kind of damage to my replacement
floor.
My fix was to remove the bathroom and replace the floor. Had to drive it
between the upper "U" and a new brace I welded below. Found a similar
situation around the water heater and at the front and rear of the wheel
wells. You might guess that I removed the guts of the trailer to effect
these repairs. Most restorer's would have trashed a unit in as bad shape as
mine was, but I was new to the scene and went ahead anyway. Also, I removed
the interior skin by cutting about 6 inches off the floor to get at the two
types of fasteners. Those that bolt the floor to the frame and those that
screw the monocoque to the floor. At one time I had drawings and pictures,
but that was a couple of years ago and a couple of computer crashes.
If you don't have rust, haven't lost or replaced the holding tank housing,
and there's no evidence of floor rot, disregard all of my experiences.
My '74 Argosy has an entirely different means to attach the monocoque to the
floor and the frame in the front and rear. Airstream engineers must have
learned something. Much easier to replace the floor in the front and rear.
Yet, the same conditions caused much of the rotting floor damage. Like the
banana curve directing the water inside the belly - causes a lot of rust to
the out riggers, etc. Soggy insulation holds the water for a long time and
compromises rivets, etc.
Unfortunately, I tend to ramble. Hope you get something out of my writings.
Much of it is worth about 2 cents. Then, I have two units undergoing
continual restoration and I have and continue to learn a lot.
Harvey Barlow helped me immensely when I started, but I haven't seen a post
from him for a couple of years. Looks like there are lots of mentors on the
valist to keep the restorations on track.
Regards,
'69 Safari, Joy
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "William Durkee" <bdkli@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 11:16 AM
Subject: [VAL] Frame Seperation
> It is obvious that the 69 Sovereign is suffering from frame seperation.
The
> bumper is hanging down about 1 inch below the body. If I step lightly on
> the bumper it will move seperatly from the body. When does it become
> mandatory to fix the problem? Can I continue to use the trailer? Will
this
> cause further damage?
------------------------------
End of VAL Digest V1 #154
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