VAL Digest V1 #142

VAL Digest         Thursday, January 29 2004         Volume 01 : Number 142




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Topics in Today's Digest:

[VAL] 1974 Airstream Sovereign Int'l - Maggie Valley, NC - for sale
[VAL] several Airstreams for sale here
Re: [VAL] Bargman #9
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #141 - Signal-Stat Acrystat lens
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #141 - Composite/honeycomb flooring?
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #141 - Grounding, GFIs
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #141 - Casting plastic lenses?
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #141 - Grounding
Re: [VAL] Questios about my 1963 Tradewind
[VAL] Window Frames
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem
Re: [VAL] Bargman #9
Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #141 - Grounding, GFIs
Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #141 - Composite/honeycomb flooring?
Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #141 - Grounding
Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #141 - Composite/honeycomb flooring?
Re: [VAL] Sandwiched flooring
[VAL] Electric Choices

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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 03:40:44 -0500
From: "T o m" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] 1974 Airstream Sovereign Int'l - Maggie Valley, NC - for sale

If anyone is looking - here's one for sale.  You have to go to this url and
respond to the Seller.

Tom


<http://www.rvmechanic.com/current_category.51/Classified.5260/offset.40/clas
sified_detail.html>

Year:1974
Make/Model:Airstream Sovereign International
Length:31 ft.
Location:Maggie Valley, NC
Price:$3,000

Vintage airstream in basically good condition. Need some interior work.
Basically original interior, some modifications have been made. Very livable.
Has been sitting on lot for several years. Willing to negotiate on price if
you pick up.

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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 03:42:07 -0500
From: "T o m" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: [VAL] several Airstreams for sale here

http://www.rvmechanic.com/current_category.51/offset.20/classified_list.html

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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:39:36 -0800
From: "chyde" <chyde@primelink1.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Bargman #9

> Hi Colin:
>    The Bargman models 8 and 9 tail lights are round and
> inset into the surrounding metal, as shown on RJ's web
> site.  They use a Bargman No. 11 lens, as stated on the
> restoration pages of RJ's web site.
>
>    The Bargman number for the lens itself appears in relief
> on the lens exterior face, so check the lens on your trailer
> for the number.  Let me know if it is a No. 6 lens.  If so,
> I'll add that fact to the Bargman light and lens model line
> up.  Thanks!
>
> Fred Coldwell
> VAC Archive Historian

Hi Fred,
I checked my lens again this morning and it does indeed say Bargman No.6 on
it so I guess they created two identical lens with different number
designations. I have sent you photos off list to add to your archives.
As for Chuck and Lynn finding a pair of good ones I'm not too sure  however
a really accurate version could be created by cutting a large aluminum
washer out of 1/8 plate and fit the center section of the more available
wedding cake Bargman # 99. At 5ft, no one could tell the difference. There
are probably a lot of broken #99's kicking around with the center section or
top tier in good shape.
Colin

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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:04:21 -0600
From: waymark1@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #141 - Signal-Stat Acrystat lens

According to Signal-Stat (now part of Truck-Lite) the Acrystat lenses are
available.
Only one Signal-Stat supplier in this area would admit that they can get
them.
They will order them only by the pack (10 I think they said) as they are
not interested in stocking them.
Al

> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 07:54:49 -0700
> From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Bargman #9
> 
> Hi Chuck & Lynn:
> 
.............................................
> 
>    While looking for the #9s', you also might keep your eye open for
old Signal Stat Acrystat 4" plastic lens that have the same general
appearance.  I've never matched up the 4 screw holes, but they look to be
the same distance apart, so some old red Acrystat might fit and work. 
The dull plastic lens might be shined up with some fine polish. Happy
Hunting!
> 
> Fred Coldwell
>
> SHMossLanding@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
> > 
> > Does anyone know of a source for Bargman #9 taillights?  Start to
restore a 1958 Traveler.

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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:12:09 -0600
From: waymark1@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #141 - Composite/honeycomb flooring?

On composite flooring:

I wouldn't use it if I was replacing a floor in a trailer. It is not a
direct replacement for plywood.
Plywood can be waterproofed. You can get marine grade and you can apply a
product like Thompson's Water-Seal.

The floor is not where I would want to go for weight saving.

The common types of composite flooring do not have high local strength as
it is usually just thin sheet aluminum. If bolts are run through it they
may crush the honeycomb. If not tightened adequately they can work around
in the holes. Reinforcements would need to be bonded and riveted to the
composite floor where the shell frame attaches, and where the composite
is fastened to the underframe.

Al

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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:50:44 -0600
From: waymark1@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #141 - Grounding, GFIs

Do you mean by "jumper wire" one from the green grounding terminal to the
white neutral terminal on a grounding receptacle? It's a cheater. As long
as whoever did it didn't connect it to the hot (supposed to be black)
wire it's OK, sort of, as long as there is no fault in the neutral wire.
The 2-socket polarized receptacles are getting hard to find at hardware
stores, so people will replace worn out ones with a grounding type
receptacle.
GFIs do not solve missing or poor grounding problems.
A GFI is not a substitute for a bad ground. It is not a substitute for
replacing 2-wire no ground romex unless you run a separate ground wire
parallel to the cable. Also much of that 2-wire is not plastic sheathed
romex but textile braid which, I have read, is less safe than knob&tube.
For one thing rodents like to eat the braid off the wires.
It turns the power off to the GFI receptacle and all receptacles
connected "downstream" from the GFI when the current does not match
between the two conductors (hot and neutral) within a small amount, 5 ma
I think, which is barely enough for us to perceive and not dangerous to
ordinarily healthy persons.
"Installed exactly right" includes being properly grounded.
Refrigerators and other large appliances often have enough leakage to
trip a GFI. The grounding plug and receptacle are supposed to provide
protection. My 1958 GE refrigerator doesn't even have a polarized plug.
Since it's on the opposite side from the sink it's not as much of a risk.
Al

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 06:20:23 +0000
> From: hex-n-tex@xxxxxxxxxx.net
> Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #138 / Grounded to Frame, GFI's 
> 
> Al I have over the years seen the jumper wire on the back or side of
older receptacles and never had a clue what it was for. thanks for the
explanation.
> 
> I have thought for a while that if every outlet receptacle was a GFI
then a lot of our trailer grounding (and old-house two wire) problems
could be eliminated.
> Then I learned that it was not necessary to place a GFI in every outlet
box, but just in the lead (or first/from supply panel box of each
circuit). And each following outlet on each circuit would be
equally(within micro seconds)  protected.
> If cost is not a consideration would it make sense to place one at each
outlet? Would there be any downside of doing that?
> I have installed a few and know that they MUST be installed exactly
right.
> 
> Do you and/or Dr.GJ agree that the GFIs would solve most grounding
problems? 
> including eliminating need in your house example to replace while with
3-wire romex? 
> 
> Then I heard that GFIs are notoriously "trip-happy"and that one should
not be used that would chance tripping the outlet where Refrigerator or
Freezer is located not even where computer is connected. Could you
comment  please.
> There is also a rumor that humidity can cause tripping. This doesn't
figure since these GFIs are supposed to be in all Bathrooms.
> Any reason for placing a GFI on the Air Conditioner circuit in the
trailer?

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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:23:06 -0600
From: waymark1@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #141 - Casting plastic lenses?

Try Cast-Craft at www.castcraft.com. I'm sure there are others; this is
just the one I know of. Model hobby shops may have or be able to get
casting supplies for you.
Al
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 10:59:02 -0600
> From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" 
> <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Bargman #9
> 
> Replacement lenses may be made in small quantities by casting
duplicates in polyester resin. One starts by making a mold using the
original lens and liquid silicone rubber. Probably make a two piece mold,
one for the front, one for the rear of the lens. When the second silicone
(often supported by plaster of paris) cures, then you can mix and pour
polyester resin into the two piece mold and make a lens as fast as the
polyester resin sets. The limits on detail are fine enough for small
scale model train parts, so should copy a lens well. The limitation will
be finding a clear resin and a permanent yet transparent red tinting
agent.
> 
...............................................
> 
> Gerald J.

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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:56:46 -0600
From: waymark1@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #141 - Grounding

Oops. One too many negatives.
Should be "According to modern standards neither the neutral nor ground
bus in the panel is supposed to be connected to the trailer body or
frame."
Al

> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 03:21:09 -0600
> From: waymark1@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #140 - Trailer grounding

..................................................... 
> Al - According to modern standards neither the neutral nor ground bus
in the panel is not supposed to be connected to the trailer body or
frame.
.....................................................
> > 
> > Thanks as always
> > ++HeX++
> 
> ------------------------------

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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:52:32 -0800
From: "chyde" <chyde@primelink1.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Questios about my 1963 Tradewind

> >Hi,
> >I am new to this list. I have a 1963 Airstream
> >Tradewind.The previous owner took the black tank out
> >and had it plumbed for a direct sewer hool up. I want
> >to change it back. First I need a tank, second I need
> >to know how the original plunbing system was hooked
> >up.
> >Steve

Steve,
I have a 63 Tradewind that I am in the process of disassembling to use as
parts for several other trailers I own. The remainder will be sold at some
point this spring. I'm not sure yet if we are going to use the black tank
out of it but I can take photos of the disassembly process for you. I have
removed the toilet already and it is possible to look straight through the
black tank to the ground. I believe this is normal. If you need any other
photos or details email me off list.
Colin

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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 08:08:22 -0800
From: David Pfeffer <pfefferd@xxxxxxxxxx.ibm.com>
Subject: [VAL] Window Frames

Folks:

I own a '60 TW that's missing two street side window frames.  I suspect a
previous owner had an air conditioner attached to the side of the trailer
and failed to put the windows back in.  I've looked high and low for these
Hehr style frames, and have been unable to find replacements.  The trailer
is worthy of a restoration, but not having the windows is a big hindrance.
Anyone have suggestions?

Regards,

David

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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:29:41 -0500
From: gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem

Jim

Doing just fine. Let me know if you can't find someone to help fix it.
We are planning a short camping trip around Feb 16 (3 day weekend) so we want
be home then.

Bobby
  ----- Original Message -----
  Wrom: RHDMNNSKVFVWRKJVZCMHVIBGDADRZFSQHYUCDDJBLVLM
  To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com<mailto:valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
  Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:12 AM
  Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem


  If I can't find somebody locally without having to trouble you, I may just
  take you up on your offer. Thanks, Bobby.

  Everything going good for you?

  Jim

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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:24:55 EST
From: SHMossLanding@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Bargman #9

In a message dated 1/28/2004 6:35:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
chyde@primelink1.net writes:


>   The Bargman number for the lens itself appears in relief
> > on the lens exterior face, so check the lens on your trailer
> > for the number.  Let me know if it is a No. 6 lens.  If so,
> > I'll add that fact to the Bargman light and lens model line
> > up.  Thanks!
> 

Yes, the lens is #6 and the benzil is #9

                         Thanks,
                               Chuck

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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:44:50 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #141 - Grounding, GFIs

I mean a jumper wire from the green ground of the receptacle to the
metal box. No other jumper.

Generally the threshold of perception of 60 Hz current is 12 to 15
milliamps, so the 5 milliamp trip of the GFI is below that threshold.

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:44:55 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #141 - Composite/honeycomb flooring?

The key to making a bolted connection to a composite may be to weld in a
bushing that supports both skins and has a full thickness sleeve for the
side of the bolt. Working with thin aluminum, this can require a very
skilled welder. It may also require an auxiliary plate on both faces of
the composite to spread the load over a wide area. The composite is
intended for a widely distributed load, not point loads without these
added details.

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:44:52 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #141 - Grounding

Still too many negatives. The ground is supposed to be connected to ALL
exposed metal parts of the trailer that are not current carrying. That
means outlet boxes, main panel box, frame, aluminum shell, aluminum
interior and all metal appliances and water pipes.

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 19:05:22 EST
From: JSmith1805@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #141 - Composite/honeycomb flooring?

If I were going to replace the floor in my trailer and wanted it to be light 
as well as strong i would make a compost floor using either end grain balsa or 
klegecell with a couple of layers of 10oz cloth on either side using epoxy as 
a bonding agent it would be some what heaver than the honeycomb but a lot 
more serversable. we used to core our better boats this way we had no problems 
with the material compressing when installing hardware on the decks. This method 
is not cheep but when you are talking about aluminum honeycomb I doubt than 
many of you have the slightest idea what kind of money you are talking about.
I sometimes wonder about this fixation about weight These are travel trailers 
mostly pulled by over powered  trucks not ultra light aircraft
Jim Smith
1965 Tradewind(The Silver Abaltross) which is way overweight
1992 Dodge Cummins Diesel

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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:17:08 +0900
From: Jeffrey Fryckman <fryckman@xxxxxxxxxx.att.ne.jp>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Sandwiched flooring

Thanks for all the advice on sandwich flooring.  I get the message, but 
actually what I originally asked about was solid aluminum plating (my 
uncle used it in his race car trailer and said it weighed the same) as a 
substitute.  Anyone have an opinions on/experience with this?

Jeff

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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 22:07:31 -0800
From: "Kathy Hunt" <khunt@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Electric Choices

I've been  considering some kind of electric generator.  I've seen the regular
gas operated but also the Solar type.
I believe somewhere a year or so ago the flexible solar panels were
discussed.

Do any of you  have the soft kind that can be hung up or laid against
something to charge?  The one I saw was $199. and had a Rated  Power of 32
watts. Was said to be a trickle charger.

Would that keep my battery up- to run my computer and TV if I'm in a sunny
location such as Arizona? I do not have an Air Conditioner.

Until  now I have just plugged into the car  every night  to equalize the
trailer battery with the  car battery.  I drive  somewhere everyday and that
recharges the car.  Works pretty good most of the time.

In your opinions would I be better off with solar(any size) or a gas powered
generator and what size and make?

I'm using with my  16 ft. Bambi.

Thanks for any help you can give me.

Kathy from Woodburn now Boondocking in Arizona

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End of VAL Digest V1 #142
*************************


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