VAL Digest V1 #140

VAL Digest          Tuesday, January 27 2004          Volume 01 : Number 140




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Topics in Today's Digest:

Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem
[VAL] Re: "Alligator Clip" Grounding Strap / Trailer Frame Grounding
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem
Re: [VAL] Re: "Alligator Clip" Grounding Strap / Trailer Frame Grounding
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem
[VAL] Suburban furnace exterior cover
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem
RE: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem
Re: [VAL] Suburban furnace exterior cover
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem
Re: [VAL] Suburban furnace exterior cover
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #136 - sandwiched flooring
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem
[VAL] Bargman #9
[VAL] 1958 Traveler
Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:40:23 EST
From: JAuman2346@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem

I friend of mine had problems where the interior lights worked on his trailer 
but the outside lights did not. He found it was a fuse in his Ford Excursion 
that was causing the problem. Hope this helps. jauman2346@xxxxxxxxxx.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:17:06 -0600
From: "Dean L." <dean@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem

Is the trouble Just with the
Tail and Clearance lights?   Or are the Stop/ Turn
lights out also??
If it is just the Clearance / Tail lights you may have
to run a new wire from the connections behind your
couch back to your tail or one of the other lights
that are not working..   Your wire may be open.
Dean

On Jan 25, 2004, at 10:25 PM, Glyn Judson wrote:
>     1.  Checked the seven wires at the plug that goes to the 
> automobile, all
> good.
>     2.  Checked the continuity between the plug and the wires inside 
> the
> inspection plate under the street side corner.  The ground is good and 
> so
> are the connections between there and the plug.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:27:11 -0500
From: gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem

Hope you replaced all the bulbs before you started chasing wires.

Bobby
  ----- Original Message -----
  Wrom: AFXISHJEXXIMQZUIVOTQNQEMSFDULHPQQWOYIYZUNNYCGP

      All,

      I've been following this thread with a bit of interest.  I've also
  talked back channel and on the phone with Jim Greene about our common woes.

      All the interior 12v lighting on my 1969 Caravel works but none of the
  exterior lights do.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:28:16 +0000
From: hex-n-tex@xxxxxxxxxx.net
Subject: [VAL] Re: "Alligator Clip" Grounding Strap / Trailer Frame Grounding

 Al (waymark) wrote:
>  FROM:VAL Digest          Sunday, January 25 2004          Volume 01 : 
Number 138
> waymark1@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #127 Trailer frame grounding
> 
>~~~~~SNIP~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~The trailer body/frame should have its own 
separate ground strap with a
> big alligator clip on it, clamped to the land power pedestal, conduit (if
> metal) or some other known good ground, like the water spigot IF it is
> iron (galvanized) or copper, NOT plastic. ~~~~~SNIP~~~~~
> 
> > > Al
> 
> > ------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Regards to the "Alligator Clip" grounding setup:
So if I carry along one side of an old set of cheap 10foot approx. battery 
jumper cables and I hook one end to the parks pedestal or parks water spigot 
(metal all way to earth). Where exactly do I hook the other end on my trailer?
How bout the BAL-stabilizer Actuating-Bolt Head? Or should I drop a large 
gauge wire out of my panel-box with some kind of end on it (underneath 
trailer) to connect one end of alligator clip to?
Which brings up another question..where does the ground wire from the panel 
usually connect to the trailer frame and by what type of connection?
 I have some 20ft. good cables but the two cables are molded together for 
much of the length and besides I wouldn't want to leave them out for the 
taking.

Other than tripping over the connection is there ANY downside to doing this?
Do I understand this right..? If the pedestal and the Trailer Park are wired 
correctly this "Alligator Strap" has no purpose and does nothing under any 
occurance..??? But if pedestal or beyond (toward source) in park is miswired 
then you have successfully grounded your trailer...???

Sounds good (and easy) to me but I wonder why I have never seen this done in 
any park that I have paid any attention to. What about the previous statement 
by Dr.G.J.(I think) that a ground rod must be at least (3 or so feet)a 
certain depth into the earth and diameter of rod must be fairly hefty (cant 
remember exact dimension).

Assuming bad wiring at your pedestal and now you have 120v returning to  park 
water pipe, and assuming all park is piped with underground steel, wouldn't 
the guy who comes along and hooks up at the pedestal next to your pad be in 
for a "surprise jolt" when he connected his water line? Or at any other pad 
in the park for that matter...??? 

Al you certainly seem to speak from a position of authority and expertise. As 
does Dr.GJ. I look forward to all your posts.  With all due respect, might I 
inquire of your electrical background?
After all electricity should be a bit more serious to us laymen than what 
kind of pookey to patch a leak with.

Thanks as always
++HeX++

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:03:04 -0500
From: "Jim Greene" <drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem

Dr.J, are you saying that if the outside lights including brake and turn
lights are not operating, the problem is with the umbilical cord from the
truck? Maybe I've blown a fuse in the truck. Still, the water pump, tongue
jack, interior lights, et al. have no 12 V power coming to them.

Jim Greene
' 68 Tradewind

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 12:27 AM
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem


> The problem on the marker lights on my Caravel was the ground on each
> light. The marker light base is plastic and the ground depended on a pop
> rivet squeezing against the plastic. The fundamental definition of
> plastic is that it gives way under pressure. One place I worked decades
> ago wouldn't allow trying such an electrical connection even with hard
> plastic. So I drilled out the rivets from each marker light. Then I
> milled away the plastic post under the ground connection tab.
>
> One some I could reach through a hole in the skin to put an aluminum
> screw through the rivet hole from the inside. On that aluminum screw I
> placed a stainless steel internal shake proof lock washer and a dab of
> aluminum conductor grease. Then I put on a pair of aluminum nuts (in
> this case 8-32 thread, bolts and nuts from a Reynold's do it your self
> aluminum collection that had been here for decades) outside, then the
> fixture, another dab of aluminum conductor grease, another shakeproof
> lock washer and another nut. I used a stainless steel self taping screw
> in place of the other mounting rivet where there wasn't a ground strap.
>
> Where there wasn't a large hole behind a marker fixture, I drilled a
> hole large enough to pass the head of the screw and the lock washer an
> inch away from the old rivet hole, then with a 3/16" inch router bit in
> my battery drill, I routed a slot to the rivet hole. Made a keyhole in
> the skin so I could easily slide the bolt with lock washer and a nut on
> the outside into place. The lock washer allows tightening the nut
> securely and bites through the aluminum oxide that is always present.
>
> I closed the keyhole slot and the larger holes with a blob of plumber's
> putty, much like they had before. When caulking seams with Vulkem, I ran
> a bead around the base of each marker lamp to give double protection at
> those extra holes in the skin.
>
> Three years hence, I've had no more work to do on the marker lights.
> While they were off, I polished the contact surfaces, light sockets, and
> lamp bases with some fine scotchbrite and then applied a film of
> silicone dielectric grease (that Ford uses for lights and ignition
> connections) to keep corrosion away. The stop/turn lights needed that
> same cleaning and corrosion protection. Before I started this exercise,
> I bought a supply of spare lamps. Haven't needed any lamps yet.
>
> The stainless steel shakeproof lock washers came from McMaster-Carr,
> actually I chose a metric size to fit my 8-32 screws because the box had
> only 100 and buying those designated to fit 8-32 came in a box of 1000,
> far too many compared to my needs.
>
> Today, I'd probably have to use 6-32 screws because the standard 8-32
> nuts would have been too thick, but those I had were perfect.
>
> I have a drawing here somewhere of the hardware assembly, though its not
> labeled to identify the parts.
>
> The Univolt has absolutely nothing to do with the exterior lighting.
> Likewise the control panel has nothing to do with the exterior marker
> and signal lamps.
>
> One would expect a problem with all the lights to be something in a
> common circuit, but it my case it was a common failure for all the
> lights. You can check easily, with the umbilical connected to the tow
> vehicle and the tow vehicle parking lights turned on, pop a lens from a
> marker light and wedge a flat blade screwdriver between the rivet and
> the ground strap on the light. I think you will find light and that the
> washer under the pop rivet is rattling loose.
>
> The license plate light on my '68 Caravel was a blob of rust, not
> salvageable. I carved a piece of 1/4" aluminum to cover its mountings
> and used a more modern and lower cost Grote license plate light. NAPA
> does show the exact replacement license plate light, but I decided that
> if the original self destructed that badly, that a reproduction could do
> no better.
>
> Inside lights are NOT involved in the marker, turn, stop, tail or
> license plate light circuits. These exterior lights are powered
> exclusively through the umbilical by the tow vehicle. The interior
> lights (and the white light at the door) are powered by the Univolt and
> battery, not directly from the vehicle electrical system, though the
> vehicle tow cable should charge the trailer battery.
>
> One other problem I had was corrosion in the plug on the end of the
> umbilical cord. Its hard to clean it up. For less than $8, I bought a
> new plug at Walmart and changed the plug. Then I coated the contact
> surfaces (and the wire ends) with more of that silicone dielectric
> grease (Ford part number D7AZ-19A331-A). I've had no more plug corrosion
> problems.
>
> Gerald J.
> -- 
> Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
> Reproduction by permission only.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:12:13 -0500
From: "Jim Greene" <drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem

If I can't find somebody locally without having to trouble you, I may just
take you up on your offer. Thanks, Bobby.

Everything going good for you?

Jim

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: <gillguy@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem


> Jim
> Just bring that sucker down here to Valdosta and I'll give you a hand with
> it.
>
> Bobby

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:28:08 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: "Alligator Clip" Grounding Strap / Trailer Frame Grounding

Something firmly attached to the trailer frame would be my choice of
connection for an auxiliary ground. And would only be effective if NOT
PAINTED. Rusty steel won't allow a good connection either. Something in
heavy copper, perhaps. I doubt there are enough large ground wire lugs
in the vintage Airstream service panel to have room for another #4 or #6
wire to run out for the auxiliary ground. Though its possible one might
be added.

Where to connect the other end? For sure a small ground rod easily
driven is a waste of effort and a good ground rod, say 8' has far too
great a chance of hitting underground plumbing or wiring. Anything less
in a driven rod isn't effective for shock prevention. Connecting to the
water spigot only works when the plumbing is all metal and the odds are
that only the hydrant is metal, everything else is plastic and that's
not much of a ground. There's the pedestal. If its grounded properly
then that ground is carried through the round or U shaped pin to the
trailer, so the auxiliary ground wire has little benefit connected to
the pedestal which probably has no bare metal for a good contact. And
then the management may take offense to scraping the paint off to make a
worthwhile connection.

Precautions that are less destructive can be taken. Own an outlet
tester. Buy one with the option to test a GFI. Such as an A. W. Sperry
model GFI302A. (Home Depot SKU 398469, $11.97). Use it on the 20 amp
receptacle on the pedestal for a start. If that passes and you are going
to use the 30 amp receptacle, use it with a 30 to 20 adapter to check
the connections on the 30 amp receptacle. If that passes, the wiring is
probably safe but a further check would be to connect the ground wire of
a plug to the hot input of a digital VTVM and the return wire of that
VTVM to the earth several feet from the pedestal. If there's less than a
volt or two, then the wiring is safe and there's not going to be a shock
from using the pedestal.

Now if the "pedestal" is a rotting 2x8 stuck in the ground and the
outlets are connected to rusty conduit and barely hanging to the plank,
trust nothing. Sleep without power.

I prefer a slightly tougher ground test than the outlet tester but my
test is harder to perform. I have an outlet strip with one outlet
(special computer outlet with isolated ground) rewired so the load
neutral is returned to the safety ground. Then with a volt meter
connected between the neutral and ground wires, I can measure the
voltage drop in the ground while using my 1500 watt heater to put
current down the ground wire. That exposes accidental grounds instantly.
With the same voltmeter connection, I can test the quality of the
neutral wire by plugging my heater into an outlet wired normally. This
is the engineer's test. I used it to prove the wiring in an aluminum
mobile home was not at fault, rather it was the appliance that killed
the user. An even tougher test would be to check the voltage between the
ground wire and earth at a ten foot distance while the heater was
putting current into the ground wire. This test can't be performed on a
GFI receptacle because the GFI will trip instantly.

For now, I distrust the aluminum wiring in my Caravel so I don't apply
power. I use an extension cord to run my heater or a battery charger
when traveling and don't connect anything to the trailer wiring (except
from the battery circuit). Someday I need to work over that aluminum
wiring, but I have a bigger project in the works right now.

If you don't trust the wiring, do you trust the water quality at the
spigot or in the community shower?

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:21:19 -0600
From: "Dan Childress" <daniel@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem

I also have a 69 caravel and had a electrical problem.  It was an
intermittent problem.  Checked all fuses, wires, act.  It turned out to be a
fuse in the fuse block in the univolt.  Seems that the filament was loose on
the inside of the fuse.  While it would read ok when tested cold it would
not connect later.   Ended up pulling out all fuses and retested.  Worked
several hours and much frustration.  Good luck.
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glyn Judson" <glynjudson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2004 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem

> > When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:00:58 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem

The only thing in common between the inside lights, water pump, and
probably the tongue jack is the ground. The markers, brake, turn,
license plate and back up lights all are powered exclusively by the tow
vehicle. My greatest suspicion is corrosion in the connector halves.
Been there chased it all over to find that was the problem. So I
replaced the connector on the end of the cord. And then I applied
silicone dielectric grease to keep the corrosion away. But I can't say
it isn't fuses in the truck, or multiple bad connections in the trailer
from the junction box at the end of the umbilical cord to each
individual light. Its necessary to start at the power source with a good
test light (I use a 50 watt 12 volt edison based lamp screwed in a
socket next to a switch (sold as a switch and edison base fuse holder
for a furnace) with leads having alligator clips on the end as my test
light, it draws 4 amps) and trace the power to the load fixing each bad
connection as found. For both the vehicular circuits (markers,
stop/tail, etc) and the interior circuits (pump, interior lights, tongue
jack).

A trailer 35 years old can have multiple failures, as I found all the
marker lights had a bad ground at each light. And the lamp sockets for
turn/stop were just corroded enough to make them not work reliably.

The failure of the water pump, tongue jack, and interior lights is
probably due to multiple bad connections in the aluminum romex that
Airstream used in 1968. Connections to aluminum are difficult, and were
harder without the use of connectors rated for aluminum and without
using the aluminum conductor grease. Aluminum expands rapidly when
heated but is soft so when restrained by a connection screw or wire nut,
it can extrude under the pressure, then when it cools it has no contact.
There are wire nuts rated for aluminum wire, the are a couple bucks
each. There are receptacles and switches rated for aluminum wire, they
are three times the price of ordinary receptacles and switches but they
should work much longer with the aluminum wire connections on the 120
volt circuits.

So long as its exposed to air, aluminum oxidizes. And that aluminum
oxide is a very good electrical insulator. Aluminum connections have to
break through that oxide, that's the function of the aluminum conductor
grease which has zinc crystals to punch through the aluminum oxide and
grease to keep air away.

Gerald
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:47:32 -0800
From: "chyde" <chyde@primelink1.net>
Subject: [VAL] Suburban furnace exterior cover

Does anyone have a good photo they could send me of an original exterior
furnace cover for a 66 Safari? The furnace is on the curbside and has a small
chrome double chimney/inlet vent coming out the side. There is a flat square
aluminum panel screwed to the outside at the moment with the chimney poking
out. Is this how it was done originally? Looks pretty crude.
Thanks,
Colin Hyde

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:52:24 -0500
From: "Jim Greene" <drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem

Seems odd to me that they all go out at the same time. That would discount
in my mind bad connections in all the lights, water pump, electric jack,
etc. The marker lights were all replaced two years ago (Bob Jones RV
Houston) and they all went out at once. I suspect fuses somewhere.

Jim Greene
' 68 Tradewind

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem


> The only thing in common between the inside lights, water pump, and
> probably the tongue jack is the ground. The markers, brake, turn,
> license plate and back up lights all are powered exclusively by the tow
> vehicle. My greatest suspicion is corrosion in the connector halves.
> Been there chased it all over to find that was the problem. So I
> replaced the connector on the end of the cord. And then I applied
> silicone dielectric grease to keep the corrosion away. But I can't say
> it isn't fuses in the truck, or multiple bad connections in the trailer
> from the junction box at the end of the umbilical cord to each
> individual light. Its necessary to start at the power source with a good
> test light (I use a 50 watt 12 volt edison based lamp screwed in a
> socket next to a switch (sold as a switch and edison base fuse holder
> for a furnace) with leads having alligator clips on the end as my test
> light, it draws 4 amps) and trace the power to the load fixing each bad
> connection as found. For both the vehicular circuits (markers,
> stop/tail, etc) and the interior circuits (pump, interior lights, tongue
> jack).
>
> A trailer 35 years old can have multiple failures, as I found all the
> marker lights had a bad ground at each light. And the lamp sockets for
> turn/stop were just corroded enough to make them not work reliably.(Bob
Jones RV
>
> The failure of the water pump, tongue jack, and interior lights is
> probably due to multiple bad connections in the aluminum romex that
> Airstream used in 1968. Connections to aluminum are difficult, and were
> harder without the use of connectors rated for aluminum and without
> using the aluminum conductor grease. Aluminum expands rapidly when
> heated but is soft so when restrained by a connection screw or wire nut,
> it can extrude under the pressure, then when it cools it has no contact.
> There are wire nuts rated for aluminum wire, the are a couple bucks
> each. There are receptacles and switches rated for aluminum wire, they
> are three times the price of ordinary receptacles and switches but they
> should work much longer with the aluminum wire connections on the 120
> volt circuits.
>
> So long as its exposed to air, aluminum oxidizes. And that aluminum
> oxide is a very good electrical insulator. Aluminum connections have to
> break through that oxide, that's the function of the aluminum conductor
> grease which has zinc crystals to punch through the aluminum oxide and
> grease to keep air away.
>
> Gerald

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:08:25 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem

There are no fuses in the trailer to affect the markers, stop, and tail
lights. Their common points are the junction box, umbilical, connector
and tow vehicle.

The interior lights, water pump, and electric jack run on the mostly
independent 12 volt trailer system, independent except for charging from
the tow vehicle and charged by the Univolt (though the Univolt often has
had a tendency to destroy batteries from over charging).

If the marker lights were mounted the same as the originals in my
Caravel, the will go out, but shouldn't quite go out together. My
Caravel sat for 15 or so years never put on the road in that time.

Fuses are the most likely suspect, followed by bad connections. Aluminum
wire was used in my Caravel for the interior 12 volt circuits and has
all the bad features I already told in detail. As far as I can tell, the
vehicular lights were all wired in copper, yet they depend on the
grounding of the aluminum shell and the frame to work. So that ground is
a suspect in both systems, vehicular and interior. I don't expect those
grounds to be dependent on the same connection.

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 14:48:11 -0800
From: "Tim  Shephard" <timshephard@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: RE: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem

Jim,

As you know the marker lights are powered by the tow vehicle.  The electric
jack, water pump, and interior lights/porch light, etc.  are power by the
trailer battery.

The only thing these two items have in common is the ground.  I would check
the ground wire on the battery in the trailer.  Follow it from the negative
terminal to where it connects to the trailer chassis or other ground wires
that it connects to.  Your just checking for good solid mechanical
connections and no corrosion.

Also, check the ground on the cable that connects to the tow vehicle.  Make
sure that has a good ground from the tow vehicle to the trailer.

- -Tim
www.telecom-pros.com/tim/tim
eFax (508)590-0320


- -----Original Message-----
From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com
[mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com]On Behalf Of Jim Greene
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 12:52 PM
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem


Seems odd to me that they all go out at the same time. That would discount
in my mind bad connections in all the lights, water pump, electric jack,
etc. The marker lights were all replaced two years ago (Bob Jones RV
Houston) and they all went out at once. I suspect fuses somewhere.

Jim Greene
' 68 Tradewind

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:57:58 -0700
From: "Stan Truitt" <stan.truitt@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Suburban furnace exterior cover

hey colin
i have a 66 safari with what i believe to be the original exterior cover. i
will be happy to send you a photo by way of attachment if you will supply
your email address. i know there is a way to post on a site that is used by
VACers but i have never done it. let me know
harry truitt
franktown co
66 safari
- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "chyde" <chyde@primelink1.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 2:47 PM
Subject: [VAL] Suburban furnace exterior cover


> Does anyone have a good photo they could send me of an original exterior
> furnace cover for a 66 Safari?
> Colin Hyde
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:07:15 -0500
From: "Jim Greene" <drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem

Thanks, Tim. I'll check. I appreciate the suggestion.

Jim Greene
' 68 Tradewind

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim Shephard" <timshephard@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 5:48 PM
Subject: RE: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem


> Jim,
>
> As you know the marker lights are powered by the tow vehicle.  The
electric
> jack, water pump, and interior lights/porch light, etc.  are power by the
> trailer battery.
>
> The only thing these two items have in common is the ground.  I would
check
> the ground wire on the battery in the trailer.  Follow it from the
negative
> terminal to where it connects to the trailer chassis or other ground wires
> that it connects to.  Your just checking for good solid mechanical
> connections and no corrosion.
>
> Also, check the ground on the cable that connects to the tow vehicle.
Make
> sure that has a good ground from the tow vehicle to the trailer.
>
> -Tim
> www.telecom-pros.com/tim/tim
> eFax (508)590-0320

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 18:57:39 -0500
From: "chyde" <brownhyde@primelink1.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Suburban furnace exterior cover

Harry,
My address is next to From: in the original message.
Thanks,
Colin
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Stan Truitt" <stan.truitt@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Suburban furnace exterior cover


> hey colin
> i have a 66 safari with what i believe to be the original exterior cover.
i
> will be happy to send you a photo by way of attachment if you will supply
> your email address. i know there is a way to post on a site that is used
by
> VACers but i have never done it. let me know
> harry truitt
> franktown co
> 66 safari
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "chyde" <chyde@primelink1.net>
> To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 2:47 PM
> Subject: [VAL] Suburban furnace exterior cover

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 16:33:03 -0800
From: Glyn Judson <glynjudson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem

    All,

    Well I'm getting closer to solving my no outside lights problem (I
hope).  The one thing I did discover was that I relied upon the word of the
seller that the lights worked and therefore thought that the bulbs and
sockets were OK.  Oh contrare.

    The single conductor sockets (turn?) on both sides are all but rusted
away while their two conductor mates (tail & stop?) are in perfect
condition.  So I guess I need to rebuild or replace those sockets before
going any farther.

    Am I correct in assuming that one cannot get to the back of the 3-light
aluminum housing on my 1969 Caravel and that to work on the individual
lights, the steel light assembly has to have the rivets drilled out?

    Didn't I see somewhere an extensive how-to with excellent photos of
someone going just that?  Can anyone direct me to it?  I looked on the net
for it and have come up with nothing.

    Thanks,

    Glyn

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:11:03 -0600
From: waymark1@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #136 - sandwiched flooring

It's called "honeycomb." Two sheets of aluminum bonded ("glued") to
(usually) aluminum foil honeycomb. Very strong and light in weight for
its strength. The filler can also be plastic honeycomb or rigid foam,
balsa wood, paper honeycomb (very much like corrugated cardboard on end),
and several other materials.
Some folding tables have a paper honeycomb top with Formica or melamine
like sheet for the top surface and a rough grade of similar material for
the underside.
You might be able to have a single one piece sheet made up for a
shell-off reflooring project. Different suppliers have different maximum
sizes.

"KMA offers assembly services, so you don't just buy a panel, you buy a
sub-assembly. All you need to do is secure it in place. We attach
moldings, hinges, locks, tapping plates, and anything else you can glue,
screw or fasten to a panel. You come up with what you need assembled and
we'll figure it out." www.kmamax.com 
The aluminum will dent but any dents can be filled with a hard putty like
floor leveler or body putty and smoothed level. A sheet of 1/4" plywood
could be glued to the top surface to provide more puncture resistance,
but of course it will add weight. Maybe that cork flooring others have
mentioned would be good.
Rigid foam sheet that is integral with a hard skin on both sides is
available. It's not glued together - the foam core blends into a solid
skin on each side.
Years ago the airlines had fits over spike heels as they would ding the
floor of the aircraft.
So any such flooring should have an upper surface that it rigid and
strong enough to prevent denting.

Al

> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 04:20:52 -0500
> From: "T o m" <tmeeker@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [VAL] Shower curtain glides
> 
> Jeff,
> 
> The aluminum floor like in the car trailer might be too heavy for the
Airstream.  Have you seen the sandwiched flooring used in aircraft?  
> The floor is made of 2 pieces of aluminum skin and between them is a
corrugated lightweight material.
> 
> Tom

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:22:00 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem

The single lamp fixtures are probably just marker lights, e.g. tail
lights. Stop and turn use the same lamp filament in most American tow
vehicle schemes and as far as I know in the '69 Airstream. Imports of
that era often used a separate lamp filament for each function: stop,
turn, and tail. So maybe enough lights worked to satisfy safety.

Replacement sockets are stocked in most car parts stores, often required
when repairing vintage cars.

I don't know about getting into the aluminum housing. If its anywhere
its probably on Tom Patterson's site.

Gerald J.

- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:53:51 -0600
From: Daniel <Daniel@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem

I found that it was impossible to get into the aluminun housing.  a PO had replaced 
the fixtures by drilling into the housing and pop riviting a new fixture.

> The single lamp fixtures are probably just marker lights, e.g. tail
> lights. Stop and turn use the same lamp filament in most American tow
> vehicle schemes and as far as I know in the '69 Airstream. Imports of
> that era often used a separate lamp filament for each function: stop,
> turn, and tail. So maybe enough lights worked to satisfy safety.
> 
> Replacement sockets are stocked in most car parts stores, often required
> when repairing vintage cars.
> 
> I don't know about getting into the aluminum housing. If its anywhere
> its probably on Tom Patterson's site.
> 
> Gerald J.
> 
> -- 
> Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
> Reproduction by permission only.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> 
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 00:10:58 EST
From: SHMossLanding@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Bargman #9

Does anyone know of a source for Bargman #9 taillights?  Start to restore a 
1958 Traveler. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 00:17:23 EST
From: SHMossLanding@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] 1958 Traveler

Starting  estoration on our 1958 Traveler, could use some help as far as the 
original layout.. Someone started remodeling n a very poor fashion, and we 
would like to get it back to somewhat original.  If anyone one has one and could 
send me pictures of the interior, it would be very helpful.  It a 1958 
California model. I have been to Vintge Airstream Photo Archives, but don'e see 
anything with the window configuration we have. Two windows on the street side.  
Did these 58's have toilets? Any help would be appreciated.

                                     Thanks,
                               Chuck & Lynn
                               1965 Overlander
                               1958 Traveler

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 21:23:23 -0800
From: Glyn Judson <glynjudson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem

    Daniel,

    Thank you, I have begun to think that too.  I'll drill them out tomorrow
and run down to my nearest NAPA auto parts store and start comparing their
hardware with mine.

    Thanks all...........again,

    Glyn

> From: Daniel <Daniel@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> Reply-To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:53:51 -0600
> To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com, valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> Subject: Re: [VAL] 12 Volt Electrical Problem
> 
> I found that it was impossible to get into the aluminun housing.  a PO had
> replaced the fixtures by drilling into the housing and pop riviting a new
> fixture.
> 
>> The single lamp fixtures are probably just marker lights, e.g. tail
>> lights. Stop and turn use the same lamp filament in most American tow
>> vehicle schemes and as far as I know in the '69 Airstream. Imports of
>> that era often used a separate lamp filament for each function: stop,
>> turn, and tail. So maybe enough lights worked to satisfy safety.
>> 
>> Replacement sockets are stocked in most car parts stores, often required
>> when repairing vintage cars.
>> 
>> I don't know about getting into the aluminum housing. If its anywhere
>> its probably on Tom Patterson's site.
>> 
>> Gerald J.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
>> Reproduction by permission only.
>> 
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>> 
>> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
>> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> 
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

End of VAL Digest V1 #140
*************************


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