The Vintage Airstream E-mail ListDigest Archive Files
VAL Digest V1 #126
VAL Digest Tuesday, January 13 2004 Volume 01 : Number 126
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Topics in Today's Digest:
[VAL] Archival Curiosities / Been surfin over at Patterson's Point
[VAL] Subject: 1974 31' Airstream
Re: [VAL] Refrigerator venting
Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #123 - 2 AC generators in parallel??
Re: [VAL] Archival Curiosities / Been surfin over at Patterson's Point
[VAL] Modern 3 plug trailer wiring
[VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #125
Re: [VAL] Modern 3 plug trailer wiring
Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #123 - 2 AC generators in parallel??
Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #125
Re: [VAL] Modern 3 plug trailer wiring
[VAL] Re: Axle project
Re: [VAL] Dexter Axle
Re: [VAL] Modern 3 plug trailer wiring
Re: [VAL] Dexter Axle
Re: [VAL] Modern 3 plug trailer wiring
[VAL] awning question
Re: [VAL] Modern 3 plug trailer wiring
Re: [VAL] awning question
Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #125
Re: [VAL] trailer wiring help
Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #125
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 06:06:00 +0000
From: hex-n-tex@xxxxxxxxxx.net
Subject: [VAL] Archival Curiosities / Been surfin over at Patterson's Point
Tom I'm thouroughly confused. but that's par for my course so don't take this
to be critical of your work in any way, please.
At the following page: http://www.tompatterson.com/Trailers/Trailers2.html
titled Tom's Airstream Trailer Section I first see a picture of a 1949 Rutger
Hauer trailer, Is that an Airstream product? If not don't you think that is a
confusing place to display that picture?
Next puzzle to me is the link to "Postings From the Vintage Airstream Club
Discussion List".
Is this the forefather of the "VAC e-mail list" which is now reincarnated as
the "Val e-mail list"(this one)?
I guess I don't know the difference between a "discussion list" and a "e-mail
list".
Anyhow you mentioned back in Digest #122 that your site also had some
archived posts from Hunter's list. I finally figured out that that is the one
above referred to as "Postings From the Vintage Airstream Club Discussion
List".
I know she runs a list over on a Yahoo Group board that(I understood) dealt
with "non-vintage" Airstreams only.
I have never visited her board over there and have even been advised that I
would not find it pertinant to the older Airstreams.
So if the aforementioned "Vintage Airstream Club Discussion List" is Hunter's
(or perhaps was Hunter's), did she trade out of being a vintage owner? and
then abandon that list and start another "New" list?
Was or is Hunter archived list affililiated with the official VAC?
Is her now Yahoo list affiliated with or part of VAC? WBCCI?
I guess I need to learn the history of Hunter and her list/s.
I am further confused by the appearance of a black, silver, & blue round logo
for "ON LINE Airstream" including the www.airstream.net url (which of course
is the VAC site). This appears immediately after the link to Hunter's
archives.
Is this a current used logo and is there a brief story surrounding it?
Is it Hunter's or VAC's or both or am I just too damm curious...?
Finally Tom you posted also in #122 this:
~~~~QUOTE
"Ok, I set it up so anyone can get copies of the old archives. Click on the
following link. I will be placing a link to this page on the main archive
page." END QUOTE~~~~
For the life of me I can not find the link at either place. Please advise.
Thanks.
OK that is enough for tonite but I have a few other q's for later in the week.
{:-)
BTW Tom I enjoyed perusing your site and looking at the Silver Streak Travel
Homes w/ porches. At 60-65 on the hiway could a guy keep a pipe lit out there
on the porch? Hope you still have yours and since I am in Houston alot of the
time now, maybe I'll get to see it in person some day. Took some pix just
today of a Silver Streak TT parked at Traders Village in Jersey Village.
As Wally might've said,.... "Better curious than dead"
++ HeX ++
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 07:30:53 -0500
From: "Alex J. Szabo" <aszabo@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Subject: 1974 31' Airstream
As a vintage club member I was approached by a gentleman to see if
anyone was interested in acquiring his Airstream. I have no interest in this
unit but feel it might be worthwhile for someone on the list willing to
invest some time and effort to redeem this clean "fixer upper". Unit is
located in southern Indiana about 25 miles west of Louisville. For
particulars e-mail me off list at aszabo@xxxxxxxxxx.net
Alex
WBCCI #25195
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:22:29 -0500
From: John Sellers <sellersj@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Refrigerator venting
Al,
> Of course a LP refrig. will work with interior air. We used to have an
> enormous Servel absorption refrigerator in our home kitchen. It had an
> electric heater in place of a gas burner. It certainly wasn't vented to
> the outside. If it had been a gas model not only the warm air off the
> condenser but also the exhaust from the burner would have gone into the
> kitchen. This was not unsafe in a house installation as no one slept in
> the kitchen, and there was a lot more air for it to be diluted by. Our
> entire trailer is smaller than the kitchen in the house.
The gas refrigerator in our 1960 Pacer is installed the way Scott
described. The LP gas burner is vented outside through its own little
chimney, so there are no combustion products in the trailer. But the
heat from the condenser is exhausted inside the trailer through a vent
in the back of the counter over the refrigerator. If you look down
inside the vent you see the cooling fins of the condenser. The drawback
to this, of course, is that it heats up the living space. Free heat in
cooler weather, but you can't turn it off in hot weather without giving
up the gas refrigerator.
I think gas refrigerators in trailers were pretty new back in the late
50's and early 60's when Airstream made these installations; as somebody
pointed out, by the mid-60's they had gone to all-outside venting.
> Used to be that the 115VAC neutral (white) wire was grounded to the RV
> body/chassis/frame. The ground wire (if there was one) was likewise
> connected to the RV chassis/body/frame.
I don't know when they switched away from the old neutral-to-trailer
shell system, but our 1960 model has the modern 3-wire connection with
the green wire to the shell.
Best,
John Sellers
WBCCI/VAC #1587
1960 Pacer
Dayton, OH
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:13:16 -0500
From: Dick Kenan <as5368@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #123 - 2 AC generators in parallel??
Gerald wrote:
>[snip]He started the batch, then closed the switch to
>parallel them. They all stopped, some turned over on their sides from
>the abrupt stop, so phasing proved to be critical.[snip]
I was told once when an undergraduate (by my professor) that he saw someone
trying to bring a generator on line by throwing a breaker to connect the
generator to the network; the breaker threw him across the room. The story
may be apocryphal, I suppose, as so many are. Still, as you said, phasing
is critical for AC systems. ;-)
- - Dick
(5368)
"The trouble with most folks isn't so much their ignorance, as knowing so
many things that ain't so."
- -- Josh Billings
- ---------------------------------------
Dick Kenan Tel: 770-451-0672
Retired and loving it!
WBCCI # 5368, 28' 1995 Excella
Atlanta
mailto:as5368@xxxxxxxxxx.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~as5368/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:26:56 -0500
From: Dick Kenan <as5368@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Archival Curiosities / Been surfin over at Patterson's Point
At 01:06 AM 1/12/2004, you wrote:
>[snip]
>Anyhow you mentioned back in Digest #122 that your site also had some
>archived posts from Hunter's list. I finally figured out that that is the one
>above referred to as "Postings From the Vintage Airstream Club Discussion
>List".
> I know she runs a list over on a Yahoo Group board that(I understood) dealt
>with "non-vintage" Airstreams only.
Not so. Any Airstream, or Streamline, or Avion, or ..., discussion is
welcomed there. Whatever has to do with the lifestyle. What Hunter's list
is NOT is exclusive of VAC or any other group.
>I have never visited her board over there and have even been advised that I
>would not find it pertinant to the older Airstreams.
There is a lot of vintage stuff over there, and a lot of members of the VAC
list are also members over there.
>So if the aforementioned "Vintage Airstream Club Discussion List" is Hunter's
>(or perhaps was Hunter's), did she trade out of being a vintage owner? and
>then abandon that list and start another "New" list?
>Was or is Hunter archived list affililiated with the official VAC?
>Is her now Yahoo list affiliated with or part of VAC? WBCCI?
>I guess I need to learn the history of Hunter and her list/s.
I don't think Hunter ever owned a vintage AS. I think her list is the
remnant of the original VAC list, which made a decision some time ago to
concentrate more on vintage issues since the list was becoming more general
in its discussions. The result is two lists, both serving their
memberships well, as membership shows. Hunter's list has almost 1600
members at present.
- - Dick
(5368)
"The trouble with most folks isn't so much their ignorance, as knowing so
many things that ain't so."
- -- Josh Billings
- ---------------------------------------
Dick Kenan Tel: 770-451-0672
Retired and loving it!
WBCCI # 5368, 28' 1995 Excella
Atlanta
mailto:as5368@xxxxxxxxxx.com
http://www.mindspring.com/~as5368/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:29:57 -0700
From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Modern 3 plug trailer wiring
Hi:
So exactly how are trailers wired today with the 115 VAC
three way grounded lead in wire? I understand the hot wire
attaches
to the hot wire input terminal inside the circuit breaker
box, and the neutral wire likewise attaches to the neutral
wire input terminal inside the breaker box. That completes
a two wire circuit and gives the trailer useable 115 VAC
juice when the circuit is closed.
But where does the ground wire attach in the trailer, if
anywhere? Is the ground wire simply left unattached to
anything in the breaker box or trailer, so the trailer
becomes in essence a two wire trailer? Or is the ground wire
attached to the ground wire lug inside the breaker box?
I will be re-wiring a 1950 Airstream this springs and
would like to do it right. Thanks.
Fred in Denver
with a two wire
waymark1@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
>
> This may have been the case a long time ago.
> A long time ago RVs didn't have grey water tanks either - they dumped
> onto the ground if there was no park sewer to drain into.
> Today we consider that a faulty (or just antique) setup.
>
> Used to be that the 115VAC neutral (white) wire was grounded to the RV
> body/chassis/frame. The ground wire (if there was one) was likewise
> connected to the RV chassis/body/frame. Today this is not allowed. The
> 115VAC must be totally isolated from the frame/chassis/body of the RV and
> grounded only to the land power neutral and ground. The old way,
> grounding to the RV frame/chassis/body could get you electrocuted if the
> land power polarity was reversed (defective wiring setup). It also could
> allow 115VAC to get into the 12VDC wiring system.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:14:21 EST
From: MaryDotson@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #125
On the laundry side...I have long been facinated by those hand cranked
laundry machines you see for sale out there. I don't know what the trade name for
these machines is, so pardon my very broad description. I've heard that they
are very good environmentally (since they use very little soap or water)--but
have never heard a testimonial on actually using one. Here is an example (at
a lower than-average cost, btw):
http://www.mileskimball.com/jump.jsp?itemType=PRODUCT&iProductID=6135
Has anyone ever tried one of these? How did it work?
Mary
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:19:50 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Modern 3 plug trailer wiring
The National Electrical Code that began before 1898 ignored RVs until
the 1980s or later. I thought that was true, so I grabbed the first code
in reach from 1971. It had a considerable section on NEC though my
impression of looking at wiring in trailers in the 70s was that they
didn't pass my inspection for quality. Even in 1971 (though it doesn't
yet restrict the use of aluminum wire at 120 volts, does allow only
copper for the 12 volt wiring), the neutral and ground (green) were to
be kept isolated and tested with at least 900 volts for leakage.
You'd do best before wiring to study a recent National Electrical Code
handbook, and in the library copy the section from the latest NEC on RV
with the paragraphs elsewhere that section references. In general since
1950, three wire circuits (hot/neutral/safety ground) are the norm with
neutral and ground isolated. The modern code calls for more outlets (and
hardly any place ever has too many), GFI at sinks and at exterior
outlets and use of switches and receptacles rated for the wire they are
attaching to. E.g. no ordinary CU only parts connected to aluminum or
copper clad aluminum wire. The modern code doesn't like fuses, it
demands circuit breakers in the panel. And it demands the panel be
accessible. I don't think being in the utility compartment accessible
only from outside really meets the modern rule. Back of a closet still
seems acceptable and is a little more accessible.
The power inlet cable ground wire is attached to the ground bus in the
main panel, an that ground bus is attached to the trailer frame and
metal shell with a substantial conductor.
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:19:54 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #123 - 2 AC generators in parallel??
Phasing is critical in DC systems too, but to most it appears obvious.
During summers as an undergraduate I worked for the EE department
installing air conditioners, building experimental apparatus for
professor's research projects, maintaining equipment in the student
labs. I took DC machinery and its lab during one of those summers. On
the day the lab instructor (from the middle east) was going to
demonstrate the paralleling of two compound generators, I was passing
through the machinery lab headed for the EE shop to tidy up for the
class but the instructor asked that I help him do the set up. Two 12.5
KW generators run by probably 15 or 20 hp three phase AC motors. All
very open construction (not modern in 1961) and open circuit breakers.
The lab had tables set up with jacks at each end for all the generator
wires and switches in all four circuits to isolate the generators from
each other and a third set of switches to go to the third generator or a
load. With the motor generator sets running and the jumpers from
generator panel to the paralleling board in place and all switches
opened, I had closed one (the lower armature connection) to check for
polarity and I was about to inform the instructor that one was building
with reversed polarity and we needed to do something about it when he
said gotta close one to have a common for polarity checks and proceeded
to close the knife switch gingerly. Not with a slap. Then he opened it
slowly letting the arc fly. Tripped two of three phases on the AC supply
to the generators and left that switch with big cherries.
So we hid that paralleling table and wired up another. We had to flash
the generator fields to get them to build again. They wouldn't self
excite. This time we got the polarity right with only one switch closed
and the demonstration went off with no further hitch. The next summer,
one of my detailed tasks was to file that burnt up switch back to
usability, e.g. file off all the copper cherries
During WW2, my dad was chief motor tester at Emerson Electric in St.
Louis. So as I was growing up, there were all kinds of motors around the
place and I learned a lot about them from him. We also rewound a 12 car
generator to 24 volts to run surplus 24 volt radios (I learned in DC
machinery class that we worked ay too hard, all we needed to do was
increase the field current or turn the shaft faster or both) and we
tried rewinding a DC generator into an alternator for 120 volts. I
suspect at the time of the machinery lab arc, I'd been deeper into
motors and generators than the instructor had ever been. I presume that
lab instructor learned from the experience. I already knew there was a
problem before he made it a lot worse.
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 12:29:06 EST
From: JSmith1805@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #125
Mary
I grew up on a little hard scrable farm in MO. during the depression. we had
no elect no running water ans an outhouse about 75 ft down wind of the house.
we had a hand powered washing machine with a wooden tub in which we had to
keep water so the tub would not dry out and leak . wash day was all that it took
all day . water had to be heated over a wood stove and than carried to the
washer. the1at load was the white goods followed by the colored cloths and
finally the farm work clothes. by that time thewater was really dirty but that was
the way it was . we had a hand powerer wrinfer and used 2 tubs for rense.. the
soap was homemade from lye and rancid lard old bacon fat and whateaver animal
fat we had.worked realy well would disolive your fingernails.
we used in total about as much water in total as 1 load takes with an
automatic washer. the old dirty water was than carried eather to the flower garden or
the family garden to be used as fertliser.
we didn"t call it recycling but servial
The times have chainged much for the better but on the way we have mostly
forgotten how to love our neighbor
Jim Smith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:23:08 -0500
From: "Mr. Joy H. Hansen" <joytbrew@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Modern 3 plug trailer wiring
Hi Dr. G. J.,
I was wondering about the fact that most modern camp grounds, certainly not
all, have a ground fault in the circuit before you plug in. For some reason
I don't understand, it seems to give problems. What's your read on this?
Then, I've also seen ground/neutral reversed and hot neutral reversed in
campgrounds. I find it best to use one of the three prong light testers to
verify correct wiring before plugging in.
I would like to use standard GFI in the trailer as the whole trailer units
are several hundred.
BTW, I always use a GFI protected circuit to power my trailers at the house.
Saved my bacon a couple of times already. Nothing like touching a hot
trailer while standing on wet/damp ground! :(
Regards, '69 Safari,
Joy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:28:17 -0500
From: "Mr. Joy H. Hansen" <joytbrew@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] Re: Axle project
Hi Jim,
Just wanted to let you know that I ordered the Dexter axle for my '69 Safari
23. I'll try to keep you informed how the installation goes.
The price for the single axle is about $400 with another $60 for shipping.
Delivery should be here about the end of January.
Regards,
'69 Safari, Joy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:36:45 -0500
From: "Mr. Joy H. Hansen" <joytbrew@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Dexter Axle
Hi Dr. G. J.,
Don't know about Dexter Axle maintaining specifications, but they kept my
file for over a year and it was simple to make the order. Only changed the
down angle from 22.5 to 45 degrees as you suggested. Would have liked the
parking brake feature, but would have to settle for a 32 degree down angle.
The brake arm interferes with other features of the 45 degree down angle.
Possibly, as I gain more experience with the down angle I ordered, I might
go with the 32 degree and the parking brake. I'm sure I'll only have to
drill one mounting hole to place the axle in an identical location with the
stock Henchen. I doubt that an inch in either direction would be
catastrophic regarding weight distribution and handling.
Certainly, the larger brake drum, oval pad, and new torsion suspension will
improve the handling of my Safari. Only thing is, that I don't like a
single axle trailer! :(
I did get the stock shock mounting tab with the axle and will have to figure
out a way to mount a shock absorber. Something about high frequency
vibrations that destroy the integrity of the Airstream structure?
More later,
Regards, '69 Safari,
Joy
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Dexter Axle
> The Dexter axle is custom made to the buyer's specifications. I have no
> idea whether Dexter has a file of those dimensions for vintage
> Airstreams. The drop angle is selectable (several positions) we probably
> need 45 degrees down. The spacing between the mounting plates has to
> specified. The distance from mounting plate to the arms has to be
> specified. The wheel bolt count and bolt circle has to be selected.
> There is an interesting option of a parking brake option. That could be
> really handy on a single axle trailer since chocks don't always work
> well on loose gravel and depending on the tongue jack for stability is a
> safety problem. The load rating for the axle has to be chosen. There may
> have to be matching holes drilled in the trailer and the axle mounting
> plates after the replacement axle is aligned with the wheel well and the
> frame.
>
> Gerald J.
> --
> Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
> Reproduction by permission only.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 14:25:38 -0800
From: "chyde" <chyde@primelink1.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Modern 3 plug trailer wiring
> Hi:
>
> So exactly how are trailers wired today with the 115 VAC
> three way grounded lead in wire? I understand the hot wire
> attaches
>
> I will be re-wiring a 1950 Airstream this springs and
> would like to do it right. Thanks.
>
> Fred in Denver
Fred,
I have a copy of NEC 2002 which includes a section on RV's. I can fax it to
you and anyone else if you're interested. Email me off list with a fax
number.
Colin Hyde
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:27:57 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Dexter Axle
Dilemma, dilemma! As I view the operational specs of the Dexter axle, if
it starts out 45 degrees down with no load it gets level at the extreme
of a hard bounce. The 22.5 degree option (next up) rests with the
trailing arm near horizontal at rated load and goes up another 20
degrees or so on that hard bounce. Other than the travel distance which
makes the suspension work, that has no benefit for raising the sagged
Airstream. And the hand brake sure would be a handy option on the single
axle trailer. Maybe the new axle can be spaced down from the frame with
a steel block to give the best of both worlds. It would just take a
couple inches. Maybe a piece of 2x2x1/4" square tube between the frame
and the top of the new axle. Might need a heavier plate on top of the
original mounting plate for lateral stability.
I'm thinking the single axle trailer is more economical to build, and
the tow than a similar weighted tandem axle trailer. I may need to do
some brake adjusting, but this tandem axle flat bed I built from a
Monitor last fall kills my truck's gas mileage, loaded or unloaded far
more than my Caravel.
The Monitor frame had home made shock mounts, a bit of twisted steel at
the spring shackle with a hole through it for the bottom stud of a stud
mounted shock, and an bit of angle iron welded to the frame for the top
en. Some were hard to install when I did them because the holes were a
little small and the spacings were inconsistent. The shortest shocks I
could find with studs on both ends at a reasonable price didn't have a
dust shield to match those I took off, so I cut the dust shields from
the old shocks with my metal lathe. There were some with dust shields in
the Monroe catalog, but priced more than I was willing to pay. I bought
shocks made by Tenneco Automotive under the Federated Auto Parts label,
their part number 20829 for about $11 each.
The shortest loop end shocks I believe are for the fronts of may GM
vehicles in the 70s and earlier, including Chevy pickups. I don't
remember the part number for those, though its in the archives and I
could go digging in the back of my truck where a pair rides waiting for
me to get around to changing them on my Caravel.
High frequency vibrations will be slightly enhanced by shocks as they
damp slow speed oscillations. Running the tires at a pressure to rate
their load carrying at the actual load will allow the tires to
contribute to the suspension. I have had a box trailer for over 30 years
that depends entirely on its tire for suspension. It tends to fly if the
tires are aired up for a load, but without a load. If the tire pressure
matches the unloaded condition better, a good load squashes them flat.
And it has the same used tires on that it came with in 1969. They have
been inside most of the time and so are weathering well. The extra
flexing with a few heavy loads properly aired up hasn't yet broken them.
Some high frequency vibrations come from aggressive tire tread designs.
An inch either way in position won't affect balance significantly, just
watch that it doesn't kill tire to wheel well clearance fore or aft.
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 17:27:54 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Modern 3 plug trailer wiring
A GFI trips when the current goes to ground, only 5/1000 ampere to
ground. That can come from moist dirt in an outlet box. That's half or
one third the accepted threshold of feeling.
I don't think 30 and 50 amp RV pedestal outlets come with GFI, but 20
amp are required to by the most recent codes. A GFI wired wrong won't
work either. That's true whether in the pedestal or the trailer.
Many campgrounds are outside of cities with electrical codes,
electrician licensing, and electrical inspection. The testers don't
catch every fault but they show most. A tester generally can't tell the
difference between a ground wire properly connected and one accidentally
connected by touching the side of a box. A duplex I rented in Allen
Texas in 1964 had all three wire outlets, but only one passed the outlet
tester check. After depending on that ground for my safety for a while,
I looked in the outlet box an found it was one of those accidental
grounds. I spent my spare time right after that making certain that
every outlet had a real ground connection to the ground wire in the
romex. In those days, Allen had a population of maybe 2,500 (and 5,000
cats) and I doubt it had big city electrical code, licensing, or
inspection. I here that I might not be able to find that little village
in the present city that Allen has grown to.
GFI for branch circuits are the most effective and the most cost
effective when they are the first outlet on a circuit. GFI breakers in a
panel tend to be several times more expensive, but the ones in an outlet
box can feed a whole series of plain outlets giving GFI protection to
them all.
An industrial GFI main breaker is NOT the same as the GFI 20 amp breaker
or the GFI receptacle. A GFI main breaker is not sensitive enough to
protect people from shock, its only sensitive to protect the wiring
system from burning down due to a short or really bad leakage to ground.
The GFI main breakers tend to cost several hundred each and up.
Gerald J.
- --
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:53:45 -0500
From: "David Turner" <jdturner@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: [VAL] awning question
Hello:
Question: I have a airstream that I am going to sell but I want to keep the
Zip-Dee awning.How much trouble is it to remove?Is ther anything special that
I need to be aware of? I see that the two bottom and top arm bracket holders
will need to be removed,then do I slide the awning canvas toward the front or
back off the awning rail?
Thanks for any good advise.
David Turner
1105 Hancock Drive
Americus, GA 31709
Home Ph. 229-924-8488
Office Ph. 229-937-2567
Office Fx. 229-937-5691
Airstream Web site: http://www.airstreamcollector.com
Pedal Tractor Web site: http://www.pedaltractorcollector.com
Email: david@xxxxxxxxxx.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:10:48 -0700
From: "Fred Coldwell" <agrijeep@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Modern 3 plug trailer wiring
Colin:
All 13 pages came through beautifully on the fax machine,
so now I'm wired and ready to go. Thanks a kilovolt!
Fred Coldwell
chyde wrote:
>
> > Hi:
> >
> > So exactly how are trailers wired today with the 115 VAC
> > three way grounded lead in wire? I understand the hot wire
> > attaches
> >
> > I will be re-wiring a 1950 Airstream this springs and
> > would like to do it right. Thanks.
> >
> > Fred in Denver
>
> Fred,
> I have a copy of NEC 2002 which includes a section on RV's. I can fax it to
> you and anyone else if you're interested. Email me off list with a fax
> number.
> Colin Hyde
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 19:20:43 -0700
From: Brad Norgaard <stream2699@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] awning question
David - I removed one from a '66 Overlander and it ended up being easier
than I ever thought. A word of caution, though! The rear arm was under load
and could very well take your head off if you're not careful. I'm not sure
that on every Zip Dee its the trailing arm either. Be very careful when you
are releasing the roll-up tension. Don't do this by yourself. Four hands are
better than two.
I contacted Zip Dee directly and asked them for advise. They sent me
directions for removing the awning. Unlike other RV awning manufacturers,
Zip Dee only has the tension spring attached to just the one end. This
allows you to make a longer awning fit a shorter trailer.
Brad Norgaard
Phoenix
'59 Trade Wind Twin
VAC #2699, TCT
on 1/12/04 5:53 PM, David Turner at jdturner@xxxxxxxxxx.net wrote:
> Hello:
> Question: I have a airstream that I am going to sell but I want to keep the
> Zip-Dee awning.How much trouble is it to remove?Is ther anything special that
> I need to be aware of? I see that the two bottom and top arm bracket holders
> will need to be removed,then do I slide the awning canvas toward the front or
> back off the awning rail?
> Thanks for any good advise.
> David Turner
> 1105 Hancock Drive
> Americus, GA 31709
> Home Ph. 229-924-8488
> Office Ph. 229-937-2567
> Office Fx. 229-937-5691
> Airstream Web site: http://www.airstreamcollector.com
> Pedal Tractor Web site: http://www.pedaltractorcollector.com
>
> Email: david@xxxxxxxxxx.com
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:37:52 -0800
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #125
Jim - you had a wood stove!! Boy, you guys were up town. We boiled
water outside over a wood fire in a big black kettle and stirred the
clothes with a big wood paddle then hauled them out one piece at a time
and wrung them out by hand and threw them over bushes to dry. The idea
that a person would change clothes every day never entered our minds.
Jo Ann
p.s. We also walked 10 miles to school, up hill both ways.
On 12, Jan 2004, at 9:29 AM, JSmith1805@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:
> Mary
> I grew up on a little hard scrable farm in MO. during the depression.
> we had
> no elect no running water ans an outhouse about 75 ft down wind of the
> house.
> we had a hand powered washing machine with a wooden tub in which we
> had to
> keep water so the tub would not dry out and leak . wash day was all
> that it took
> all day . water had to be heated over a wood stove and than carried to
> the
> washer. the1at load was the white goods followed by the colored cloths
> and
> finally the farm work clothes. by that time thewater was really dirty
> but that was
> the way it was . we had a hand powerer wrinfer and used 2 tubs for
> rense.. the
> soap was homemade from lye and rancid lard old bacon fat and whateaver
> animal
> fat we had.worked realy well would disolive your fingernails.
> we used in total about as much water in total as 1 load takes with an
> automatic washer. the old dirty water was than carried eather to the
> flower garden or
> the family garden to be used as fertliser.
> we didn"t call it recycling but servial
> The times have chainged much for the better but on the way we have
> mostly
> forgotten how to love our neighbor
> Jim Smith
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:41:13 -0800
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: Re: [VAL] trailer wiring help
Colin:
Hi - we're doing the wiring this week and I would truly appreciate a
copy of the NEC section on RV's. I would be happy to pay postage and
expenses. Thank you.
Jo Ann
>
> I have a copy of NEC 2002 which includes a section on RV's. I can fax
> it to
> you and anyone else if you're interested. Email me off list with a fax
> number.
> Colin Hyde
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:18:34 -0800
From: "michelle" <safoocat@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Re: VAL Digest V1 #125
Jo Ann
p.s. We also walked 10 miles to school, up hill both ways.
How'd you do that?
Michelle
"Hope is the golden
bridge that joins
our hearts to
the eternal."
- --Nello Pailini--
------------------------------
End of VAL Digest V1 #126
*************************
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