VAL Digest V1 #104

VAL Digest          Monday, December 22 2003          Volume 01 : Number 104




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Topics in Today's Digest:

[VAL] Maurice Tierney Out of Office
[VAL] Wide White Wall Tires
Re: [VAL] Anyone out there?  and AC installation
Re: [VAL] Wide White Wall Tires
Re: [VAL] Wide White Wall Tires
Re: [VAL] Anyone out there?  and AC installation
[VAL] New member
[VAL] Brake controller wiring problem
Re: [VAL] New member
RE: [VAL] Wide White Wall Tires
Re: [VAL] Anyone out there?  and AC installation
[VAL] Task lighting
Re: [VAL] Brake controller wiring problem
Re: [VAL] Task lighting
Re: [VAL] Task lighting

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 01:19:56 -0500
From: "publisher@xxxxxxxxxx.com" <publisher@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Maurice Tierney Out of Office

I will be out of the office from December 15th through December 31st. Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 10:39:38 -0500
From: <Balloon@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] Wide White Wall Tires

Over the winter, I'm getting the 1962 Galaxie Conv., 390 4bbl, 4 speed on
the floor ready to pull the 1966 Overlander. What's kinda funny is, when
I bought the trailer from Mrs. Jackson, she had a picture of it being brought
home from the Airstream dealer with a 1962 Ford Galaxie. I want to put
wide white wall tires on the car. I like the look and feel of the Vintage
bias-ply tires (I know all the cons) on old cars. The car now has radial
tires.
I have found on www.croker.com different "4 ply" tires, max weight 1680lbs.
at 32lbs. of pressure. I have always pulled this trailer with a F250 SD,
powerstroke, load range "E" tires. Never a blow out. I see other people
with wide white tires, are they a higher load rating? Do they have problems?
I would think with the leveling bars, I can help get the weight across all
four tires. I know its been done before (back in the 60's) an is being done
today. Any good advice? (I know, keep using the truck!), or input on a
choice of tires?

Paul Waddell
WBCCI/VAC/WDCU 1270
66 Overlander
70 23' LY single

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 10:34:15 -0500
From: "Jim Greene" <drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Anyone out there?  and AC installation

Glyn, we have a replacement Coleman AC on our 1968 Tradewind the PO had
installed professionally. I say professionally -- the interior drain line
was not used and it may not be possible to use it without the pan that goes
underneath the AC. I have made an extensive inquiry about a drain pan for
the Coleman AC and there never was one supplied as original equipment. There
is a company in Florida that makes a universal drain pan for RV air
conditioners. It does not utilize the Airstream interior drain line but it
might be modified to do so with some ingenuity and effort. Alternatively, it
can be drained as designed using a length of PVC pipe along the roof and
down the refrigerator air vent and under the trailer. I've had three
Airstreams since 1972 all with a roof mounted AC installed in the center
vent. I think the concerns about the appearance of the trailer and it's
aerodynamics and stability with a roof AC are groundless. The factory must
have thought it was a satisfactory if not the best location since that's how
it was done. Functionality is a component of beauty in my way of thinking.

Jim Greene
' 68 Tradewind
WBCCI #1148, VAC, WDCU

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glyn Judson" <glynjudson@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Anyone out there? and AC installation


>     Blair,
>
>     I called them by phone last night and left a brief but complete
> description of my intent, explaining that it would be a unit from the same
> year, asking about prewiring, pan hoses being in place, etc.  We'll see in
a
> couple of days what they all have to say.
>
>     Thank you again for the suggestion to contact them.
>
>     Glyn

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 10:35:20 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wide White Wall Tires

I can't give answers, only questions.

What does that Galaxy weigh, how much on each axle? What's your
trailer's tongue weight?

You need to see if those tires are within their ratings for the car
unloaded than in the worst case with all the tongue weight added to the
rear axle. If the loads are within the tire ratings, other than the anti
bias ply arguments vs. radials you are ready to run. 

Just that if I happened to be in your way, I be sure to wish you had the
improved grip of radials on tow vehicle and trailer.

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 10:49:51 -0800
From: William Kerfoot <wkerfoot@xxxxxxxxxx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Wide White Wall Tires

Balloon@xxxxxxxxxx.com wrote:

>Any good advice? (I know, keep using the truck!), or input on a
>choice of tires?
>

Paul,
1,690 lbs each gives you a total of 6,720 for all four tires.  Check the 
rear axle rating, it should be less that twice 1,690 or 3,360 lbs.  Then 
weigh the entire vehicle and add the tongue weight and passengers.  If 
this is less than the 6,720 you should be OK, but you will have to keep 
the tires properly inflated for the load, not necessarly max pressure 
but certainly less than the pressures on the door data plate.  (Coker 
should be able to give you weight ratings by inflation pressures to 
use.)  By the way, what is the recommended tire size on the data plate?

Bill Kerfoot
WBCCI #5223
1979 23' Safari
1973 Dodge W200 Powerwagon
1977 Lincoln Continental
Orange, CA

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 14:07:28 -0700
From: Charlie/Betty Burke <cbburke@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Anyone out there?  and AC installation

Glyn,

This data is from the factory database. The distance on the ceiling centerline
from the front rib to the centerline of the air conditioner shaft for the 18'
1969 Caravel is 67".

The old original Armstrong "Bay Breeze" unit weighed collectively at least 100
lbs. Current production units from Duo Therm, Coleman, and Carrier weight in
around 75 lbs.

On the Armstrong unit the "adapter/drain pan" was part of the ac unit its self.
The Armstrong's were only every used by Airstream and thus custom built.

Once the change was made to first a Coleman and then to the Duo Therm's of today
it was necessary to create an "adapter/drain pan" that would adapt for the two
different contours and consolidate drainage to the built in drain tube.
Airstream has only every made two adapter/drain pans. The first for a Coleman ac
available in the 80's. It was much longer than any current Coleman model. As
much as they would like to get rid of them Airstream still has a number of them.
The current production pan was developed specifically for the Duo Therm ac
units. It is available through any Airstream dealer.

You will find when it comes time to install the AC unit that the bottom gasket
seal does not mate to the pan. It is necessary to at least notch the gasket or
as the factory does remove it in its entirety and use either Vulkem or SikaFlex
sealant.

Charlie

Glyn Judson wrote:

>     Colin, Gerald, Gary, Chris, Kevin, Blair and all,
>
>     Thank you all for taking the time to lead me by the hand through all the
> thinking on the subject.  As usual, I wasn't clear as to how my Caravel is
> fitted and the purpose I intend it for.
>
>     I based some of my assumptions on the FAQ section of the Vintage
> Airstream Club about air conditioners here:
> http://www.airstream.net/FAQ/FAQ_12.html.
> You can see that they address many of the initial questions I had except for
> the exact placement of the unit.
>
>     From what they say, the wiring, pan and condensate tubes are already
> there for the Coleman unit.  I have four AC breakers, only two of which seem
> to do anything so maybe the wiring really is there.
>
>     Gerald,  I tend to agree with you as to the aesthetics and windage issue
> but this Caravel is going to be the prettiest on my block that's relegated
> to a lifetime of sitting on jacks in the back of the property.  My wife
> wants it for a retreat and we will also have it double as an overflow for
> when family and friends stay with us.  We've had other trailers in the past
> and the kids love sleeping out there.
>
>     Gary, thanks for the link to RJ's site.  It clearly shows the AC unit
> aft of the one and only vent in the Caravel (sorry not have stated the vent
> count and location in my first post) at:
> http://www.vintageairstream.com/archives/69Caravel/69Caravel.html
>
>     The vent is way forward of the installed unit that can be seen outside
> in the first image and inside in images 9, 10 and 11.  The cross bar for the
> accordion door is a hint as to where it should approximately go.  The camera
> position in those last three images is approximately under the single
> overhead vent.
>
>     Blair, I should have thought to contact Airstream directly and I'm
> grateful for the suggestion.  For some reason I was under the impression
> that Airstream was not used owner friendly.  I'll phone them tonight as soon
> as I send this out to you all.
>
>     Thanks again to you all,
>
>     Glyn
>     1969 Caravel #508
>     Santa Monica CA
>     Hers:  Puny 1992 Toyota Celica, 4 cyl.
>     His:  Somewhat puny 1995 Camry wagon, V-6
>     Tow vehicle:  No plans
>
>
>
> > From: Blair <hitek_airstream@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
> > Reply-To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> > Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 21:37:28 -0500
> > To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
> > Subject: Re: [VAL] Anyone out there?  and AC installation
> >
> > Glyn -
> >
> > Your best bet is call the tech service folks in Jackson Center, OH. (Check
> > web site for number)
> >
> > Leave a message as to your question and they will call you back with the
> > correct answer.
> >
> > I can't remember what the dimension was from the front end cap edge but
> > they will tell you.
> > I think it was 60 some inches on my 64 Tradewind, but may not be the same
> > for yours.
> >
> > Blair
> > Hangin' in Key West
> >
> >
> > At 06:41 PM 12/19/2003, you wrote:
> >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >>
> >> All,
> >>
> >> It's awful quiet out there today.  Does anybody have an answer for me as
> >> to how to determine where the AC unit gets cut into the roof of my '69
> >> Caravel.  (See previous post of mine today on the subject).
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Glyn
> >>
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> >> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> > http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> When replying to a message. please delete all unnecessary original text
>
> To unsubscribe or change to a digest format, please go to
> http://www.tompatterson.com/VAC/VAList/listoffice.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:38:21 -0600
From: "David Beard" <dbeard@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: [VAL] New member

Hello,
I'm Dave Beard and my wife and I have had a 71 Airstream Safari for a
couple of months now. We bought it and got it on the road in two weeks.
Lots of work, but its a great trailer and did just fine. We ran over
3000 miles from New Orleans to New London, CT and back again. I've still
got some things to fix (I don't think you ever stop working on an old
trailer) and will probably have questions from time to time. I've
already checked the old discussions about changing the black water tank.
Mine is cracked and needs to be replaced. Any idea where I can get a new
tank?
 
Dave Beard

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:46:55 -0700
From: Ivan <airstream@xxxxxxxxxx.org>
Subject: [VAL] Brake controller wiring problem

Hi Everyone,


            Here's one I hope someone will know the answer to: I've been
working on the wiring to my 55 overlander and I finally got everything in
place. I completely replaced the harness on both truck (1980 chevy) and
trailer, installed a breakaway switch with battery as well as a prodigy
break controller.  All lights seem to work as they should, but the prodigy
shows a short on idle (flashing S.H.).  The brakes on the trailer had two
wires (green and white) while both the breakaway switch and the prodigy have
a single blue wire for brakes. Since when I tested it there was continuity
through the two brake wires, I assumed they can be combined and connected
through the single wire... Is this not the case?  I really don't know a
thing about these early brakes, when I greased the axles I blew out all the
dust and made sure the springs were all there and working.  Everything
looked like it was in pretty good condition after sitting for 10 years, so I
left it in place. 

            As for the controller, the only other thing I can think of is
that I ran the [+] to the aux wire from the ignition with no fuses or
anything.  Could this be the problem?



Thanks and happy holidays!

- -Ivan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 16:18:50 -0700
From: Rob Davis <rob-iod@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] New member

David Beard wrote:

>Any idea where I can get a new (black water)tank?
>

Here is RJ's restoration 'Parts, Services and Supplies' page:

http://www.vintageairstream.com/rr_topics_suppliers.html

In it he lists Inca Plastics as a sourcde:

http://www.incaplastics.com/

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:05:53 -0600
From: Kevin D Allen <overlander64@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: RE: [VAL] Wide White Wall Tires

Greetings Paul!

I have two occasional use tow vehicles (1975 Cadillac Eldorado
Convertible and 1965 Dodge Coronet 500 Convertible).  I have run both
bias ply belted and radials on the Dodge, and the performance both
towing and solo is greatly improved with the radials (my current 2.5"
whitewalls (P235 75 R14) were purchased from Sears but are due for
replacement due to age).  I have been considering the B F Goodrich 2.75"
radials offered by Coker to keep the wider whitewall with radial
construction.

Without question, when rated properly either tire type will do the job.
It is more a question of personal preference.  On my Dodge, the road
manners are much improved by the radials which seem to provide better
tracking with the touchy power steering system used in that car.

Good luck with your decision!

Kevin

Kevin D. Allen
1964 Overlander International/1999 GMC K2500 Suburban
1978 Argosy Minuet
1975 Cadillac Convertible (towcar in-training)
WBCCI/VAC #6359
 

- -----Original Message-----
From: valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com
[mailto:valist-admin@xxxxxxxxxx.com] On Behalf Of Balloon@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 9:40 AM
To: valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com
Subject: [VAL] Wide White Wall Tires

Over the winter, I'm getting the 1962 Galaxie Conv., 390 4bbl, 4 speed
on
the floor ready to pull the 1966 Overlander. What's kinda funny is, when
I bought the trailer from Mrs. Jackson, she had a picture of it being
brought
home from the Airstream dealer with a 1962 Ford Galaxie. I want to put
wide white wall tires on the car. I like the look and feel of the
Vintage
bias-ply tires (I know all the cons) on old cars. The car now has radial
tires.
I have found on www.croker.com different "4 ply" tires, max weight
1680lbs.
at 32lbs. of pressure. I have always pulled this trailer with a F250 SD,
powerstroke, load range "E" tires. Never a blow out. I see other people
with wide white tires, are they a higher load rating? Do they have
problems?
I would think with the leveling bars, I can help get the weight across
all
four tires. I know its been done before (back in the 60's) an is being
done
today. Any good advice? (I know, keep using the truck!), or input on a
choice of tires?

Paul Waddell
WBCCI/VAC/WDCU 1270
66 Overlander
70 23' LY single

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:27:38 -0500
From: "Jim Greene" <drgreene@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Anyone out there?  and AC installation

That's interesting Charlie. I bow to your better information. Whoever I
talked to at the Airstream factory told me there wasn't a drain pan for the
Coleman. May have been a newer employee who wasn't aware of the 80s Coleman
pans.

Jim Greene
' 68 Tradewind

- ----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charlie/Betty Burke" <cbburke@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
To: <valist@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [VAL] Anyone out there? and AC installation


> Glyn,
>
> This data is from the factory database. The distance on the ceiling
centerline
> from the front rib to the centerline of the air conditioner shaft for the
18'
> 1969 Caravel is 67".
>
> The old original Armstrong "Bay Breeze" unit weighed collectively at least
100
> lbs. Current production units from Duo Therm, Coleman, and Carrier weight
in
> around 75 lbs.
>
> On the Armstrong unit the "adapter/drain pan" was part of the ac unit its
self.
> The Armstrong's were only every used by Airstream and thus custom built.
>
> Once the change was made to first a Coleman and then to the Duo Therm's of
today
> it was necessary to create an "adapter/drain pan" that would adapt for the
two
> different contours and consolidate drainage to the built in drain tube.
> Airstream has only every made two adapter/drain pans. The first for a
Coleman ac
> available in the 80's. It was much longer than any current Coleman model.
As
> much as they would like to get rid of them Airstream still has a number of
them.
> The current production pan was developed specifically for the Duo Therm ac
> units. It is available through any Airstream dealer.
>
> You will find when it comes time to install the AC unit that the bottom
gasket
> seal does not mate to the pan. It is necessary to at least notch the
gasket or
> as the factory does remove it in its entirety and use either Vulkem or
SikaFlex
> sealant.
>
> Charlie

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:47:27 -0800
From: Joann Wheatley <jwheatle@xxxxxxxxxx.edu>
Subject: [VAL] Task lighting

Coming down to the wire now with Bubbles. Took all the old window glass 
out and replaced it with tempered glass + 3M privacy film on the sides 
and clear 3M on the front and rear. Airstream dreams had the exact 
window edging for the redo, as well as the entry doorway gasket. All 
the window parts had be liberally covered with that Da....silicon 
sealer- it's great stuff until you have to remove it. I did buy the 3M 
Silicon sealer remover but the main ingredient was elbow grease and 
Scotbrite pads.
    I had bought a cute little black, cast-iron 2-burner stove for the 
Bubble but after both my construction guys balked at installing it 
(said it had no decent fittings and was suitable only for outdoor use), 
ordered a 2-burner Force 10 drop in. I just about to the point of 
pawning jewelry.
    The last (HaHa) hurdle seems to be lighting. I had purchased several 
marine lighting fixtures but hooking them up to a battery inside the 
trailer at night demonstrated a severe lack of really good lighting for 
the kitchen area and a whole lot of shadows. What I need is some really 
bright,, low energy use lighting. I just don't think the LEDs are quite 
there yet and am looking at the cold cathode tubes. Anybody using 
those?? Any suggestions?
   Oh also, I've been taking lots of pictures - does this list have a 
place to post photos or should I go to the AS forums site?
Jo Ann

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:56:07 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Brake controller wiring problem

Early and late brake wiring should be the same. The two wires from each
brake are the two ends of the magnet winding. One needs to go to ground,
the other to the brake controller (and breakaway switch). I don't think
either will be grounded in the brake on purpose. Probably ground the
white wire, and apply brake controller output (blue wire) to the green
wire, same for both brakes. When I wired my flatbed a couple months ago,
I ran a pair of wires from left brake to the right brake, then a pair
all the way to the junction box and grounded one side of the brakes
there to keep the circuit resistance low. I did that separately for each
axle and joined them at the junction box. That reduced the circuit
losses from not using large enough wire in the brake circuit and made
junctions along the axles simpler and so easier to make with crimp
splices..

The computer brake controllers are grumbly about the power connection
happening quickly without scratches and don't like to be switched. My
controller looses its memory of settings every time power is removed and
it won't run the brakes until the reset sequence is applied. The brake
controller should have power all the time, and should be fed though a
fuse so that there's a chance the fuse will blow before the wiring
harness ignites the dashboard trim. Once the dashboard trim is ignited,
the vehicle is a goner. 

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:04:38 -0600
From: "Tom Patterson" <tomp@xxxxxxxxxx.com>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Task lighting

You can post them at http://www.tompatterson.com/VALgallery/index.php.

- -Tom

>    Oh also, I've been taking lots of pictures - does this list have a 
> place to post photos or should I go to the AS forums site?
> Jo Ann

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:03:03 -0600
From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer" <geraldj@xxxxxxxxxx.net>
Subject: Re: [VAL] Task lighting

LEDs are awfully close. Better than cold cathode lamps, look for compact
fluorescents with 12 volt inverters in their fixtures. They are fairly
expensive but decently energy efficient and do produce a quite useful
light level with good color rendition. The older straight tube and
circuline fluorescent fixtures (commonly available) are not great for
efficiency and their color rendition is classically poor.

Check Mouser (www.mouser.com) for bayonet base led assemblies made to
run on 12 volts. They are for vehicle signals and could do a pretty good
job of task lighting.

The use of LEDs for lighting is a rapidly moving market. They will be
coming rapidly more effective and less expensive. At least one road show
has used LED stage lighting recently.

Gerald J.
- -- 
Entire content copyright Dr. Gerald N. Johnson, electrical engineer.
Reproduction by permission only.

------------------------------

End of VAL Digest V1 #104
*************************


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